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What is the back story as to why Bacchus did not go on to become a great WI batsman and player?

I remember seeing him as a youth player 73-75. He left a lasting impression on my young life. The only batsman, even when he was young that had more class was "Yagga."
Why did he play test cricket for only 4 years?

In reply to solidrock

Greenidge, Haynes, Richards, Kallicharan, Rowe, Lloyd, Gomes, Logie and Richardson.

In reply to Fivestar

Neither Logie nor Richardson could carry Bacchus’ jockstrap in the batting department and they were peers in the fielding department.

In reply to imusic

I would include Greenidge and Haynes re: Bacchus. Maybe a bit of exaggeration!
Maybe someone could tell me what really happened to Bacchus?

In reply to solidrock

Hola...because he was a punt...when he gave away his hand in the ODI final I think was early 80's..chasing a wide wide ball...on his return to the dressing room ..LLyoyd told him he will never ever play for West Indies again...LLoyd was angry as all Bacchus had to do was bat sensible..anyway Bacchus should had ignored that comment and go back mind his own business and things would had sorted itself out.
Except Kalli was putting a rebel team to SA and Bacchus joined.
Here is the irony..WI was off to Australia and one of the reg opening bat could not go for whatever reason...that replacement would had been Bacchus if as I said he had just stayed in a corner for a while.Unfortunately he went to SA..Phil Simmons was called up...
and therein lies your answer..
Adios
CB

In reply to CITYBOY

Thanks for the input.

In reply to solidrock

In those days we had richness of talent as you know and Bacchus was simply not good enough to replace those greats- now this does not mean he wasn't good, just that others were so much better than him.

And he is not the only one, take for example Richard Gabriel, Norbert Phillip, Timur Muhammed, Richard Austin, Patrick Patterson etc.

We could have easily fielded 3 teams and still win against the top teams then.

In reply to CITYBOY

What makes you think he would have been selected after what Lloyd said?

In reply to CITYBOY

You sure about that story? bacchus went to SA in around 83. Simmons first played for WI in 87.

In reply to imusic

How could you possibly compare Faoud Bacchus to Ritchie Richardson? Richardson had 16 Test centuries while Bacchus had 1. Are you being enarmored by "prettiness"?

In reply to Fivestar

How many tests did Bacchus play compared to Richardson?


Can’t score runs if you don’t get opportunities. Richie Richardson (and Keith “Binary” Arthurton) were Viv’s guys and given every possible opportunity

Bacchus was not similarly favored

In reply to solidrock

Faoud Bacchus... Benson & Hedges schoolboy cricket bully... nuff said

In reply to imusic

oh please. Bacchus first-class average is 35. Richie averaged over 44 in Tests. Richie was considerably better. Bacchus was a good-looking player. Saw him bat about three years ago and he still looked good. But Richie was a lot better.

In reply to googly1961

Maybe I was so enthralled by how classic he looked like a schoolboy or younger player. Bacchus was even better looking as a batsman than Dujon or Richard Austin at that time and that is a high compliment from me.

In reply to imusic

Logie cant bat, so i agree with you there. Richardson struggled early against spin, but he could bat. Bachaas, like Carlisle Best was probably not given enough opportunities.

[b]In reply to imusic

[/b]

Ritchie Richardson made the West Indies team when Lloyd was captain and he made the team because he was a brilliant stroke maker. The first time Australian commentator, Ritchie Benaud, saw him he remarked, "This fellow is a good player."

Bacchus 19 Tests at an average of 26.

He might have looked good at the crease, but he didn't put a high enough price on his wicket.

Another Kieran Powell?

In reply to imusic

How wud Richardson tek Bacchus spot? If Bacchus cudn cement his place in de five years between dere debuts is him alone to blame.

Richie made de WI team after scoring a ton against Wayne Daniel, Malcolm Marshall and co. at Kensington. The Bajan manager, Holford had been impressed with him a year earlier in the Leewards when he made 70 odd and made mention of a fearless dashing young batsman

In reply to imusic

Hola...Bacchus would had been selected...Bacchus and LLoyd was very tight...if you only know....once LLoyd came back to Guyana and Bacchus arranged for him to have a car for the duration of his stay..
I know of what I speak...I do not want to say more..
Bacchus married into a well to do family that had tremendous influence ..ok.
Adios
Cb

In reply to spider

Hola..iam sure about the story and Simmons..because the openning spots were locked up and if a spot became open in 87 then so it is..
ADios
CB

In reply to CITYBOY

That don't make any sense to me but ok.

Simply put, Baahus made one big test score of 250 in India and he could not live forever off that. Richie Richardson was a consistent batsman. He would never carry Bacchus jock strap. Arthurton did better than Bacchus in test cricket. Bacchus got his chances but never produced much.

In reply to jelfew
Hola..he phucked his own career...but he was a good enough talent..the 250 was meaningless when the Packer boys came back...
Adios
cb

Farouk Bacchus was lucky he played as much Test as he did, he was a dissapointment even at the F/C level. He looked good but he mostly a showman. There was someone who was way better than Bacchus but he came at the wrong time he was Andrew Lyght.

In reply to CITYBOY

That was it, talented indeed, his issue was mental.
Talent alone will never make you successful if you do not have mental fortitude. But yes Bakky coulda truly beat ball as Larry Gomes said, he was one of the best.

In reply to dayne

was Timur Mohammed a better bats than Bacchus?

In reply to jcveletta

JC I would say not better but a more fluent and pretty stroke player. Bakky would have been excellent in 20/20.

In reply to dayne

You chatting nonsense, Bakky was a technically correct, attacking batsman. He threw caution to the wind and 90% of the time threw his wicket away. Rarely showed nerves, attacked fast bowling and was good with footwork against spin.
Was a damn good batsman, mentally lacking however, was easy to set up.

In reply to solidrock

Couldn't play express pace........his exploits against Jeff Thomson are on youtube. Unfortunate for him that the crocket world back then was inundated with express speed merchants(every team except India had one, some had several).......kinda like cricket Jurassic Park

In reply to Jumpstart

Bakky could not play express pace? Surely you jest.

In reply to Runs

Well you are contradicting yourself, if someone has a great technique but poor judgement how good could he be? Bacchus had a few innings of brilliance but mostly he was a failure, Timur Mohammed, Lyght,Baichan and Jackman were more dependable than him

I reserved a hotel for my two of us, to watch Bacchus, knowing he was a West Indian batsman, what I saw was someone playing a fete match.
He got stumped haven't face a few balls, I drove 3 hours, spend my money at a hotel, had to put up with my Room mate bitching, because there was no booze in the room, at 5:00 am the first morning.
To make matters worst, Bacchus team Ontario lose to Alberta.
I must say I've seem better road batsman, than what I saw of Bacchus that day.

In reply to dayne

I am saying the guy can bat, if you saw him on song you would have said the same. Don’t we say the same about Carl Hooper my friend?

In reply to Runs

We are not debating about how entertaining he was when he was batting, we are talking about his lack of consistency, he was a walking wicket most of the time.

In reply to dayne

I am not disputing, he batted carelessly, it was not due to the bowling being on top. But 19 tests are hardly a good yardstick to come to such a conclusion don’t you agree?

In reply to dayne

Hola...the issue with Bacchus was he married into a rich family..I told him so..as such he refused contracts to play league cricket in England because as he says"the money small"..I told him to go..but he had no desire as he did not need money...that was the biggest mistake he made...he would had improved in England.
I saw Lloydie playing in Lancashire league toughing it out at small parks ...thats what most WI cricketers did..
Oh well as I said Bacchus phuck up his own career.
Adios
CB

In reply to jcveletta

Hola..Timur was class...but not too serious about cricket..his game came naturally. Good thing he did not progress further because the money he made not playing cricket is nothing to sneeze at.
Adios
CB

In reply to openning

So it WASN’T a fete match?

Hola...one thing I can say dont say anything negative about Bacchus around Shiv Chanderpaul...Shiv credits Bacchus for being there for him when it mattered..at GCC..and th beginning of his career.
Cant say nothing bad..around Shiv..them 2 bhais tight
ADios
CB

In reply to imusic
It was for the Canadian provincial championship, and Bacchus was the player, we all wanted to see.

In reply to Runs

Bacchus had many fans in his day that's why he was given the opportunity to play so many Test, they were all hoping he would come good and he was a brilliant fielder, but if he was not so flamboyant he would not have played so many Test as his F/C stats were mediocre also

In reply to dayne

No one I repeat got into an 80’s WI side without being talented. Larry Gomes personally told me Bacchus was one of the best he ever saw. Don’t judge him by the stats brother.
You seem to have a dislike for him from your posts.

In reply to Runs

No I'm not. I saw bacchis out three times in a WSC series to Jeff Thomson. One was clean bowled and he was bounced out twice. And 19 years is a good yardstick when you're competition is greenidge and haynes. And he should have considered himself fortunate. Lendl simmons
Played less than ten tests in a time when the WI were/are struggling

In reply to Runs

Timmy was one of the best timer of a cricket ball in the WI. Only hoops and yagga was better. He was also technically sound too mate.

In reply to openning

In other words........a forkane fete match!

Ok so my memory is not as sound as it once was however I will throw this one out there.

1979 - 80 West Indies toured England and Baccus was in the squad and played at least one test.

The lovely voice of John Arlot was commentating in probably his last series and he articulated:

"Here comes (Snow ?) to bowl to Baccus. And Baccus GROPES at that one!!"

My last memory of Baccus was that he groped even before the #metoo movement..

In reply to spider

Opinions galore!!!! Classic selfmade facts

In reply to CITYBOY

slow down a little bit, Simmons first played for West Indies in 1988, Bacchus played his last match for West Indies in 1983. You must must be talking about an ODI tri series with Pakistan, West Indies and Australia when Desmond Haynes wasn't available. The player that replaced Haynes was Richard Gabriel.

By that time some of the West Indies followers were totally frustrated with Bacchus efforts. After the 1983 world cup final lost the West Indies had pretty much washed their hands with Bacchus.

In reply to methodic
That's the way I recall it too.
btw, did not the WI rebble tour to SA occur b4 that 1983 WC?
So Bacchus had to be on the 84 tour.

In reply to Runs

No I do not dislike Bacchus, but I am simply being real, Bacchus was talented but somethings was not right with his judgement, many times he played the wrong stroke to the wrong ball, he disappointed many people back in the day, I could remember once a commentator in his summary of the day saying, " and the innings of the day was Bacchus's, he made 20 run but hit 4 glorious 4's ". That pretty much summarized his career, pretty strokes, short entertaining innings.

In reply to tops

I will say that is correct

In reply to dayne

Go check his performances on the SA rebel tour
Am I not saying exactly the same thing.

In reply to methodic

Hola...you are right about the Simmons year..and that is what I was alluding to...I know for a fact what LLoyd told him..but that was all in haste and vexation..yes..he would(Bacchus_ would had sorted himself out as he went on the Rebel tour..(i think 2 years) and made a fistful of runs.If he stayed in domestic(WI) he would had been good enough to walk in before Simmons..but that did not happen.
AS I indicated in the one day games LLOyd would never leave out Bacchus because as I said ..his fielding..
Go ask Lloydie.
Anyway thats the way the world turns.
Adios
CB

In reply to Runs

Hola...One day I will send you a PM..I think we know the same people..
Kalli was architect of the rebel tour...but it was because of a lot of nonsense going on within WI and SOUTH AFRICA threw lots of money at him... Kalli was bitter...LLoyd went with his merrymen to Packer ..and Kalli took an unknown team to India..(loyal to WI)..At least he was not called a traitor as they did to Shiv.....Packer boys came back and we know what happened..Cricket was paying peanuts in those days..and the rand was very attractive..The rebels were an inspiration to colored cricketers and colored people...people need to read about that positive.
anyway thats that..
Adios
CB

In reply to jcveletta

Timmy was good, great to watch, I miss that era and the quality players it produced.

In reply to CITYBOY

Ok, cool sah

In reply to CITYBOY

Kalli didn't play Packer cricket because of contractual obligations that he had at the time.

Bacchus was a great Case Cup player.

In reply to Larr Pullo

Hola...Let me check with Kalli about that..because Packer was in winter and the only contractural obligation he would had with Warwickshire is coaching a bunch of school boys.Those sessions were funny..Kalli used me to show how to hold a cricket bat..LOL
So I heard about Bacchus being a great case cup batsman...I know he used to play back stop for East Bank under uncle Joe.
Adios
CB

Me jus check dis Bacchus stats and me shame baad!

In reply to solidrock

in 30 test innings.score under 10 runs in 14 innings, 7 ducks-782 runs 26 Ave

in 26 Odi innings.score under 20 runs in 16 innings -612 runs Ave 26

ps. in west indies cricket he suppose to still get pick.

12 FC centuries

In reply to Fivestar
BULLFUCKINSHIT!

catch sah

In reply to CITYBOY

Are you sure about this? Faoud lived in Toronto before moving to Orlando in the late 80's or early 90's.

In reply to uton

Did Bacchus played for Canada?

In reply to granite

What is the point you are trying to make?

In reply to uton

Yes Faoud and Sheik Mohamed played a pivotal part in Shiv’s early years. Faoud was often in Guyana, his inlaws have businesses.

In reply to jcveletta

Not that I know of.

In reply to CITYBOY

Too young to remember all of that.. but did read something to that regard on MB.

In reply to uton

Hola...very sure..used to go back and play for GCC when he was in Orlando..(had fishing trawlers so he used to be in GT for business).he was the first one who apprised me of a young Shiv..not as batsman but as a leggie who could bat a bit...check it..he bowled leggie for GCC...Neil Singh(now deceased) was very helpful to Shiv..Neil was Secreatry at GCC then.

In reply to jcveletta

Hola...played for WI,and USA..unsure about Canada..to rep another country there was a 4 year thing..He may had played for Canada against USA because that may had been the only international fixture..I cant remember..but I know he rep USA
Adios
CB

In reply to CITYBOY

How you rate Bacchus against pace bowling? He came around Croftie time, correct?

In reply to jcveletta

Hola...do not know much about Bacc and pace as i had left for overseas..(.but I can tell you about Kalli and pace)....but BAcc was an opening bat so I suppose he was ok with it..he and many others had a rough time with Lillee and Thommo in Australia..dem boys de fast...
I do remember anyway there was a fast bowler up here in Canada name Pascal that terrorised batsmen..dont know which island he was from...but he was quick..
and Bacc was playing for a club called Yorkshire and them boys warn him about Pascal and how quick he was....
The very first ball Pascal bowled to him..Bacc went down the wicket and straight drive him for six..then he shouted..."I thought you guys told me this man was quick.."
I played against Croftie many times...yup he was fast but predictable at my level..but again he Croftie went on to bigger things..maybe he would had knocked meh head off at a higher level.
Bacc was comfortable against pace...did he not hook the Aussie guy for a six first ball and then fall on his wicket.??
Anyway up here in Canada I opened batting with Bacc on a few occasions and I always take first strike..I used to tell him we cant afford an early wicket..LOL
Adios
CB

In reply to solidrock

Played school cricket with Faoud,never seen anyone pick up line and length so quickly.....outstanding hand/eye coordination..at 12/14 years old I knew he would play for WI.....

In reply to CITYBOY

Pascal was from Antigua and several guys who faced him told me he was nastier than a pitbull. Apparently, he didn't care about wickets as much as he liked to inflict pain.

In reply to Fivestar

Pascal was quick and mean.....much feared in his time..

In reply to CITYBOY

thank you mate. don't know pascal. was he the quickest thing around? Bacchus must have been in his 40s when he played in Canada.

In reply to Fivestar

Hola..the hunted in pairs...the other was a guy called Fatty Walters...dem guys were fast.
Adios
CB

In reply to jcveletta

Hola...no man Bacc was still in prime about 25 ish..
but as far as I know a lot of guys came from the islands in 70 and 60 that were lightning quick..but they all came to Canada.
There was a guy that came from Barbados who was pound for pound like Malcolm Marshall..cant remember his name...but man he was demon...I mastered him though..and he cuss me like hell
Adios
CB

In reply to kingie

Hola..Are you from East Bank...I played my cricket there.
Adios
CB

In reply to CITYBOY

25, mann that was young. Never say Bacc in his prime, but, I heard from very knowledgeable cricketers that he was a very good bats against fast bowling.

In reply to solidrock


We called him Bourda star as he looked pretty and could play all kinds of strokes on that Bourda track, more perfectly than any players on my computer games.
We loved going to watch him play. I think he was a GCC member/player so played a lot on Bourda's famous batting track.
He would be the test 12th man as a young man when touring teams come as he was a very dynamic fielder.
I remember in Cadet Corps we had to take one cadet from overseas to spend the day with us. This kid from St Vincent was such a cricket fanatic, said he heard about Bacchus but had to see him in person.
Found out that he was playing Case cup at Bourda. We had a good treat all day long with his batting.

After that goadee man shot in the world cup, I said the same thing as Lloyd. I didn't want to see him play for WI anymore, or won't go watch him.
I guess listened to me telepathically.

In reply to shivnotout

And dem complained about poor Devon!!

Take away 250+ (from that 782) that he made in one innings in Kanpur beating Kanhai's record for most by WIndian v India.

In reply to goofballs

Your post just made me think about something. How many successful opening batsmen have we produced in Test cricket since Haynes and Greenidge? The only one that comes to mind is Chris Gayle. Does this mean in forty years we have only produced one outstanding opening batsman?

In reply to Fivestar

It look suh.
Further enlightenment welcome.
I missed 20 yrs, just after those two chaps came on the scene.

In reply to solidrock

BAcchus was a stylish batsman who did not have it for top class cricket. He made runs against great regional bowlers in the 70s and 80s but failed at the top level with just one century...

He was not in Richardson class as a batsman...I am a big Bacchus fan...

In reply to Bigzinc



Great to watch beating up weak bowling.

In reply to goofballs

true but bacchus also made runs against all comers in regional...He was murderous against pam pam bowling

In reply to Bigzinc

He was better than pretty. Saw a lot of him in Case Cup.
He was just an upcoming, future "star" in 1975 ish, like the Trinis were going into raptures over Gus Logie seven years or so later when I went back to WI and lived in T$T.
They both busted fans' bubbles

I think Guyanese, maybe all West Indians, love anything looking pretty or flashy and abhor any unorthodox, awkward looking guys like Shiv, or a pokey Joe!

In reply to goofballs

I just Googled him.
Test1978-82. Average 26.1 Strike Rate=124.5

ODI Average 26.6 Strike Rate = 65.9

Go Figure!

Furthermore, those who claim that he was good at lower level

1st class average 35.2

List A average 33.4

I guess he was just like a pretty flashy chick who had nothing to offer when it comes to the real business.

In reply to goofballs

You missed 12 FC centuries and 37 half centuries.

In reply to Runs

Ok, Goog didn't give that.

The averages tell the story though.

I did enjoy watching him at Bourda, like an artiste performing.

He was a hero in India after he made 250+

What a bunch of confusion, just gossip