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Tino spouting this Cameron propaganda on ESPN

 
DIEHARD 2019-05-11 14:24:18 

Giving PCL credit for our recent success, like there was any confirmation needed that he's clueless

 
Courtesy 2019-05-11 14:27:16 

In reply to DIEHARD

Well said.

 
spider 2019-05-11 15:52:14 

In reply to DIEHARD

Maybe that's his honest opinion and he's not just reciting propaganda. I happen to think the PCL is a good thing also.

 
DIEHARD 2019-05-11 15:53:23 

In reply to spider

Nobody is disputing its a good thing, but is it effective? and is it responsible for our improved performances?

 
spider 2019-05-11 15:56:36 

In reply to DIEHARD

Why would it be good if it's not effective? can you say for sure that it has nothing to do with what you say is our improved performances?

 
Courtesy 2019-05-11 15:59:45 

In reply to spider

The intentions of the PCL are honourable but it fails in both quantitative and qualitative evaluations. It does not compare favourably with the old Shell Shield system.

 
DIEHARD 2019-05-11 16:00:32 

In reply to spider

Which players have turned in improved performances? And how many seasons have they played in the PCL?

 
spider 2019-05-11 16:12:57 

In reply to DIEHARD

Players like Hope, Hetmyer, Chase etc has mostly known only the PCL. There is no way anyone can say for sure they would have developed faster and better in the previous system. I believe the PCL is an improvement over what obtained before. If you want to say it is a welfare system then I think you could say that about every first-class system in the world since most players in any system won't be good enough to make their international team

 
Courtesy 2019-05-11 16:15:28 

In reply to spider

...If you want to say it is a welfare system then I think you could say that about every first-class system in the world since most players in any system won't be good enough to make their international team...

What about the percent of cricketers on the welfare system. Is the PCL welfare percentage acceptable from a development perspective?

 
spider 2019-05-11 16:17:34 

In reply to Courtesy

I have no idea since I don't know what it is in any first-class system. Perhaps you have some numbers you could share?

 
DIEHARD 2019-05-11 16:19:29 

In reply to spider

If you want to say it is a welfare system then I think you could say that about every first-class system in the world since most players in any system won't be good enough to make their international team


Then you fail to grasp exactly why this is a welfare system.

Profit is the motivation for improved performances in any functional professional first class structure, there must be some incentive or reward for improved performances, and some risk or consequence for failure.

Does this exist in our "professional" system?

Are the franchises owned by entities whose every existence is dependent on good performances? Are they forced to seek maximum ROI from their players?

 
Courtesy 2019-05-11 16:20:04 

In reply to spider

Look at any current English County cricket side and you will immediately see the difference. Sebastien et al were just making up numbers instead of the authorities giving youngsters the opportunity.

 
spider 2019-05-11 16:20:21 

I believe the PCL was necessary. Perhaps it should have been implemented differently and I'm sure it could use improvements. But I applaud those who did it. I think Cameron presided over at least one good thing.

 
DIEHARD 2019-05-11 16:21:56 

In reply to spider

It is a ruse, it was a buyout..union busting, u dont pay players and they suddenly improve, what systems are in place to ensure improved performances?

 
Courtesy 2019-05-11 16:22:07 

In reply to spider

I believe the PCL was necessary. Perhaps it should have been implemented differently and I'm sure it could use improvements. But I applaud those who did it. I think Cameron presided over at least one good thing.

You are slowly coming around. No one is arguing that it is not necessary but it is not cost beneficial in its current construct.

 
spider 2019-05-11 16:22:56 

In reply to DIEHARD

I believe the ECB has to shore up the counties. Does that mean county cricket is a welfare system too? As I said the PCL can and should be improved

 
Courtesy 2019-05-11 16:23:02 

In reply to DIEHARD

It is a ruse, it was a buyout..union busting, u dont pay players and they suddenly improve, what systems are in place to ensure improved performances?

Checkmate.

big grin

 
Courtesy 2019-05-11 16:25:10 

In reply to spider

I believe the ECB has to shore up the counties. Does that mean county cricket is a welfare system too? As I said the PCL can and should be improved

It's not subsidization of the clubs which is at issue here, it is what is done with the subsidization in term of player remuneration and the resultant results.

Are you OK with sending your money down a bottomless pit?

 
spider 2019-05-11 16:27:24 

In reply to DIEHARD

It is a ruse, it was a buyout..union busting, u dont pay players and they suddenly improve, what systems are in place to ensure improved performances?



I disagree. I think they were genuinely trying to make West Indies cricket better. Like you, I hope there are programs in place to improve the cricketers other than getting dropped and not retained if they don't perform.

 
Ray123 2019-05-11 16:29:48 

I agree with Tino is the ONE thing Dave got right.

 
spider 2019-05-11 16:31:05 

In reply to Courtesy

I agree with you mostly. There should indeed be standards that players should be made to live up to. Maybe the teams should be more transparent and communicate more with the public the things they are doing to improve the product.

 
Courtesy 2019-05-11 16:33:32 

In reply to spider

I agree with you mostly. There should indeed be standards that players should be made to live up to. Maybe the teams should be more transparent and communicate more with the public the things they are doing to improve the product.

Finally we have arrived at the point of synchronicity. In short, the PCL has to be re-evaluated to ensure value for money.

Thanks for a civil discourse.

 
spider 2019-05-11 16:48:50 

In reply to Courtesy

In short, the PCL has to be re-evaluated to ensure value for money.


Nothing wrong with that. Thanks

 
voiceofreason 2019-05-11 17:29:10 

In reply to DIEHARD

Look Bro the PCL was a great idea and has done well for West Indian cricket. Yes there is need for an overall performance assessment to be publicized but give Jack he Jacket this was a good move by Cameron. You can dispute the underhandedness and deceitful way it was executed but you cannot dispute that it is good for West indies cricket.

However the PCL is not what caused Cameron's downfall. He felt was bigger than Cricket and tried his best to destroy anyone who criticized his stewardship.

Thanks for the PCL, but good riddance!

 
DIEHARD 2019-05-11 17:40:22 

In reply to voiceofreason

What improvements have there been since the PCL?

In it's current format, it is not a tool for improvement.

Paying players doesn't automatically make them better.

Also, playing more cricket doesn't automatically improve the standard of cricket if players aren't learning