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It is total madness that a man

 
InHindsight 2019-05-12 07:42:33 

Can play only 5 ODIs,

never took a wicket in that format
not a frontline batsman
nothing special about his bowling

But yet in a WC squad test playing nation let alone any team

Phew
evil

I'd take Chase thank you.

 
Walco 2019-05-12 10:14:09 

In reply to InHindsight

Over the past few years it has been clear that the days of chopping and changing are over. Once a player is selected he is given a decent run. I am assuming that Allen earned selection with good List A performances.

 
Courtesy 2019-05-12 11:53:49 

In reply to InHindsight

No mate, some persons can spot talent.

Viv Richards made the West Indies team when his top score in Shell Shield was 74 and not much to offer to the untrained eyes.

It happens. Numbers don't always tell the story.

I called for Chase and Hope to be fast tracked.

And I am now calling for Kirstan Kallicharran to be fast tracked.

 
Walco 2019-05-12 12:03:37 

In reply to Courtesy

Never seen the Kalli kid. What do you see in him?

 
Maispwi 2019-05-12 12:05:13 

In reply to Walco

You wud be assuming wrong

 
Courtesy 2019-05-12 12:06:33 

In reply to Walco

His technical ability is unsurpassed. I am afraid that he will soon be disinterested.

 
InHindsight 2019-05-12 12:21:08 

In reply to Courtesy

Talent I have no issue with but does he belong in the WC squad. I think not

 
Courtesy 2019-05-12 12:23:18 

In reply to InHindsight

I think not

No issue with your perspective but I usually allow selectors to do their jobs.

 
Courtesy 2019-05-12 12:25:14 

Titbit on Kirstan Kallicharran.

 
Headley 2019-05-12 12:33:05 

In reply to InHindsight

Seems Holder shares your view. big grin

 
Headley 2019-05-12 12:40:01 

In reply to Walco

Once a player is selected he is given a decent run.


Are you old enough to remember when the question across Barbados and the Caribbean was, "Why are they persisting with Gordon when Geoffrey Greenidge is so much better?"

(I anticipate some genius in logical thinking will rush in to inform me that Allen in not Gordon Greenidge.)

 
Walco 2019-05-12 12:46:34 

In reply to Maispwi

Well he has caught my attention in the past to the point where I picked him on a fantasy league team or two. But maybe the selectors spotted talent and decided to give him an opportunity

 
Walco 2019-05-12 12:51:33 

In reply to Headley

I don’t remember that, but fans are usually fickle. We want our favorites to be given long runs but others should be dropped as soon as they have a few failures. Not referring to the person who started this thread though. He is a serious poster.

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2019-05-12 13:30:47 

In reply to Headley

Never heard of such and I am old enough

 
Maispwi 2019-05-12 13:33:37 

In reply to Walco
Dat was in de CPL. But ah wudn ask you how well you did with your fantasy team

 
jballer84 2019-05-12 13:34:35 

In reply to Courtesy

Why would he soon b disinterested? He played the last u19 world cup. Has he been setting the place on fire and not gotten opportunities? If he has that attitude he will not be able to stand up to the scrutiny of international sports

 
Headley 2019-05-12 13:38:02 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Sorry I just made it up. twisted

 
Maispwi 2019-05-12 14:09:17 

In reply to Headley

Gordon got nuff stick for his seeming failure against genuine fast bowling early in his career. He in fact suffered a reverse Archer with some Caribbean fans wanting to know what dis Englishman was doing on de WI Team

 
Headley 2019-05-12 14:22:14 

In reply to Maispwi

Yes I distinctly remember my Bajan friends joking about which Greenidge should be on the team and I do not think Alvin was pressing his case as yet.

 
seaegg99 2019-05-12 14:28:54 

In reply to Headley

Don't remember that either. Geoff was a bigtime poker. We all knew Gordon was young and being tutored by one of the greatest opening bats in history. Like Richards he just needed time.

 
Dukes 2019-05-12 14:51:03 

In reply to Courtesy

Viv Richards made the West Indies team when his top score in Shell Shield was 74 and not much to offer to the untrained eyes.

INACCURATE my friend.

Viv Richards was selected to tour India based on his exploits for Somerset in 1974.He was selected because he not only made centuries in the County Championship against Gloucester in May and Yorkshire in June but shortly before the selectors met in the West Indies to pick the West Indies team to tour India, he played a 40 over match for Somerset against Nottinghamshire led by the incomparable Garry Sobers.
Viv hit a blistering 108* which led Sobie to call absolutely everyone ranting and raving about the next great West Indies batsman.
That my friend is why Viv Richards was selected to play for the West Indies.

 
Courtesy 2019-05-12 14:53:21 

In reply to Dukes

I yield to you on this one but I don't think Viv had scored a Shell Shield century. 74 was his highest score then.

I cannot speak to his exploits in county cricket before being called to the test team.

 
Walco 2019-05-12 15:10:38 

I am wondering how many of our great players were selected after putting up great numbers in Regional cricket as opposed to being fast tracked

 
Courtesy 2019-05-12 15:13:45 

In reply to Walco

It's something that poster Commie has lamented incessantly in the past...the lack of talent spotters in the Caribbean. We tend to select purely on numbers from the regional competition.

 
Dukes 2019-05-12 15:16:18 

In reply to Headley

I can't comment on that except to say that in December 1972 I was at at Guyana team net practice prior to the 1973 season and Roy Fredericks expressed the view that he might be out of the West Indies team as the new openers would be Greenidge and Greenidge,to which both Lloyd and Gibbs expressed that such a thing could never happen because Freddo was numero uno when it came to batsmanship.
2 reasons why Freddo played that series against Australia.
1.Big match at Kensington Bim vs Guyana.The 2 Greenidges on 1 side and Freddo on the other.Geoffrey scored 99 and Gordon 44 but Freddo got a century and then both Greenidges failed in the second innings.
2.Gordon was selected for the President's XI against the Aussies and failed in both innings.Viv also played and failed in both innings.Ian Chappell talked about Viv's 18 in the first Innings which had 4 fours off Hammond in the same over he was dismissed.He said Hammond said on his dismissal that no batsman can keep hitting good length balls to the boundary consistently so he was not surprised he got him out.Chapelli said that Viv later showed it can be done.

 
InHindsight 2019-05-12 15:16:53 

Some here are missing the point.


Selection unto the West Indies team is not the issue.

Selection on The World Cup Squad is the problem. And we all understand why.

 
Dukes 2019-05-12 15:17:07 

In reply to Courtesy
U R correct wrt not scoring a Shell Shield century.

 
Courtesy 2019-05-12 15:18:06 

In reply to Dukes

Thank you Sir.

 
Maispwi 2019-05-12 15:20:34 

In reply to Walco

Scoring runs against Bim at de Meca back in de day was a sure way for a batsman to get fast tracked

 
JamMack 2019-05-12 15:35:44 

In reply to Headley

"Sorry I just made it up. "

Is that something that you are prone to do in this Forum? Just make it up! If so, I must say that I haven't observed that in your posts historically.

Regarding the comparison between Gordon and Geoff. They were quite dissimilar. Never ever hear anybody rate latter over the former. Stands to reason you did make it up. Hope it doesn't become a habit because I value your opinions.

 
Baje 2019-05-12 16:11:28 

In reply to JamMack

Regarding the comparison between Gordon and Geoff. They were quite dissimilar. Never ever hear anybody rate latter over the former. Stands to reason you did make it up. Hope it doesn't become a habit because I value your opinions.


As a school boy Geoffrey Greenidge traveled to Jamaica, scored a double century, and then took 7 wickets in the first innings bowling leg spin.This was against a decent Jamaican shell dhield team playing at home.

Geoffrey arrived at the time when we were ushering whites out of cricket

 
Headley 2019-05-12 16:23:30 

In reply to JamMack

comparison between Gordon and Geoff.


If you can find me making a comparison between Gordon and Geoff in my posts above I recommend someone holding you by the hand and taking you to the optician. big grin

 
Runs 2019-05-12 19:06:06 

In reply to Dukes

Skurs u r old bro lol

 
Dukes 2019-05-12 20:04:49 

In reply to Runs

I am younger than Viv!!!!!

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

 
tc1 2019-05-12 20:37:20 

In reply to Headley

Are you old enough to remember when the question across Barbados and the Caribbean was, "Why are they persisting with Gordon when Geoffrey Greenidge is so much better?"


I recalled those sentiment in NY circle concerning Gordon and may have read it in an article.if I recalled correctly they did not want an english transplantee take a local place in the team.
I will inquire about the comments this cricket season.

During this period, Bim had several youth players who were better than Geoff, but credit to him , he batted for long period and also was a decent leg-spinner.

 
Dukes 2019-05-12 21:20:59 

In reply to Headley


Are you old enough to remember when the question across Barbados and the Caribbean was, "Why are they persisting with Gordon when Geoffrey Greenidge is so much better?"


Assuming you are not pulling our collective legs,I am certainly old enough, but have absolutely no recollection of this ever happening.I did leave the Caribbean in the early summer of 1974 for England but by that time Geoffrey Greenidge was well and truly out of test cricket reckoning.
Gordon made his test debut in India in the Fall of 1974 and in his first test match scored 107 and 93.He failed in Australia the next year but by that time absolutely nobody was calling for Geoffrey Greenidge.
I would therefore ask the obvious question which is WHEN WERE THESE QUESTIONS RAISED?
Gordon did not play against India in the West Indies after that OZ tour and on the tour of England in 1976 scored 3 centuries.

 
Benjie 2019-05-12 21:40:51 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

was thinking the same thing big grin

 
cupid20d 2019-05-12 23:10:01 

Site could use a LIKE button.

 
openning 2019-05-12 23:28:56 

In reply to Dukes

I wrote about Viv's selection, from the voice of Sir Everton various times on this mb.
My Antiguan friend and I spend a couple days with the great man in the seventies, my friend wanted to know why Viv was selected ahead of Jimmy Allen, who some think should be playing for the West Indies.
Sir Everton respond was, Viv not scoring hundreds, but he was consistently scoring fifties, we knew that will change.

 
Headley 2019-05-13 00:42:54 

In reply to Dukes

I can report on the discussion because at one level I was a member of a group which included some Bajans and an Antiguan who were participants in that discussion. I believe the discussion would have taken place in 1975 after Gordon's poor performance in Australia.

We should remember that runs made in India were not considered as valuable as runs made in Australia in 1975.

 
Drapsey 2019-05-13 00:52:21 

In reply to InHindsight

Looks like getting rid of the Big IDIOT hasn't paid the expected dividends.

 
Dan_De_Lyan 2019-05-13 00:52:43 

In reply to Courtesy

Link Text


not following cricket at the moment but he looks good

 
alfa1975 2019-05-13 01:16:48 

In reply to Dukes Looks like Mr Chappell was on a prophetic journey in 1973. As purportedly he was overheard in Kingston Club pavilion, lauding Holding,along the line that any bowler that could bowl Ian Redpath 3 times out of 4 was special and needed to be nurtured etc.
However Holding was never fast tracked.

 
anandgb 2019-05-13 01:43:57 

In reply to Dukes & Runs

I am younger than Viv!!!!!
lol lol lol

 
Dukes 2019-05-13 02:43:27 

In reply to alfa1975

However Holding was never fast tracked.


Holding made his first class debut as a teenager in 1973 and was picked for the Australian tour in 1975.He had never taken 5 wickets in an innings when he was picked for the tour at age 21.To me he was definitely fast tracked especially when you consider that he was picked for the Presidents XI in his debut season.

 
Dukes 2019-05-13 03:07:48 

In reply to Headley


I believe the discussion would have taken place in 1975 after Gordon's poor performance in Australia.

That Australian tour was late 1975 into early 1976.By that time Geoffrey Greenidge wa nowhere near test consideration.In 1976 Geoffrey played 3 matches for Bim and averaged 15 with the bat.In his last appearance for Bim,Geoffrey was joined by Gordon who proceeded to score a century which cemented his place for the England tour.Geoffrey never played a first class game after that.
Against India Rowe opened with Freddo in all four test matches.

 
jacksprat 2019-05-13 08:46:04 

In reply to Dukes

I am always fascinated when some of these posters either try to revive history or make up their own!!

The less said about that nonsense about "whites [being] ushered out of West Indies cricket", the better,

Geoffrey Greenidge was never a competitor to Gordon Greenidge for a place in the West Indies team. Moreover, when Geoffrey was selected in 1972 to open with Fredericks against New Zealand it was felt in some quarters that he was lucky. If anyone should have felt hard done by it was Desmond Lewis who had averaged 70+ in the previous test series against India and never played another test inning for West Indies.

And it is not as if Geoffrey Greenidge, when given a chance, had set the world on fire in test cricket. So much so, that Lawrence Rowe, who had never before opened the batting at any level, was pressed into emergency action to partner Frederick.

I guess the only place anyone would have compared both Greenidges could only have been in the household of Geoffrey Greenidge!

 
StumpCam 2019-05-13 09:28:18 

I haven’t heard any mention of Stephen Comacho nor Ron Headley!
Didn’t they opened with Fredericks during that period as well??
lol
Or that was before Gordon?

 
jacksprat 2019-05-13 10:06:50 

In reply to StumpCam

Yes, and also add Joey Carew to that list who also preceded Gordon Greenidge as a partner to Fredericks.

 
natty_forever 2019-05-13 13:36:53 

In reply to openning

Sir Everton respond was, Viv not scoring hundreds, but he was consistently scoring fifties, we knew that will change.
is this what they see in John Campbell.

 
camos 2019-05-13 14:12:25 

In reply to Dukes

Viv Richards was selected to tour India based on his exploits for Somerset in 1974



Viv was selected, because Foster who was first names, said he was unavailable because of his job!

 
Jumpstart 2019-05-13 14:33:58 

In reply to Courtesy

Viv richards had already impressed on the india tour the year before and was known throughout the region as ultra attacking.

 
Dukes 2019-05-13 14:42:42 

In reply to camos

As I have said in the past,I was very close to the action and Viv was always going on that tour of India as was Gordon Greenidge. Remember who was captain!!!! wink wink

 
Jumpstart 2019-05-13 14:46:13 

In reply to Dukes

yeah.....greenidge had already started to star with hampshire opening with barry richards

 
Headley 2019-05-13 20:27:38 

In reply to Dukes

Are you old enough to remember when the question across Barbados and the Caribbean was, "Why are they persisting with Gordon when Geoffrey Greenidge is so much better?"


I made the comment above in agreement with an earlier comment which sought to show the importance of giving players a decent run before discarding them.

For some reason you seem determined to attribute the sentiments to me when ironically I was trying to show that this was the sentiment of fans in January 1976 who were prepared to discard Gordon Greenidge as soon as he failed. You then go on to show in detail with the hindsight of history that the fans who expressed those sentiments were misguided. I am not here to justify the sentiments of misguided fans in January 1976. In fact I was trying to highlight how impatient fans can be.

I want you to remember that immediately before Gordon Greenidge scored the century against Jamaica in Feb 1976 his scores against Australia were 0, 0, 8 and 3. I am sure you can recall after the 5 - 1 beating by Australia the WI fans were not in a charitable mood. It was widely reported that Greenidge looked at sea when facing up to the pace of Lillee and Thompson.

It may also be relevant to remember that prior to 1976 when both Greenidges played for Barbados against the visiting Australians in 1973 Geoffrey had made 148 NOT OUT while Gordon made 4.

Fans are fickle, Gordon Greenidge in January 1976 was not a batsman held in high esteem. My comment was entirely meant to show that in spite of the comments made by fans in Jan 1976 it was important not to discard him after one significant failure.

 
jacksprat 2019-05-13 21:08:24 

In reply to Dukes

As I have said in the past,I was very close to the action and Viv was always going on that tour of India as was Gordon Greenidge. Remember who was captain!!!!

Are you suggesting that Foster making himself unavailable -despite his usual wealth of runs in the Shell Shield ostensibly because he was about to start a new job was just a charade?

This must have been some conspiracy because they apparently were able to trick Viv as well into believing he inherited Foster spot. Not to long ago Viv publicly stated that he was lucky to make his first tour to India only because Fos had withdrawn.