Butts was the coach when Jofra was playing in our world...
He says Jofra was not the best bowler then so they picked the others.
Admits that Jofras development and improvement is astonishing....and then mentions that many others playing for their countries around the world have more than excelled compared to our own
Bravo and Williamson were both playing in the U19....look at the difference between them
to my mind...Butts just cussed and condemned our development system...
tune in to Mason if wunnuh doubt me
Message Board Archives
BUTTS ON MASON...condeming our system?
In reply to powen001
I am listening.
The young U17 captain, just won his second championship, he won the U15 tournament a year ago.
He is only 15 years, and his favourite cricketer is Virat Kohli.
In reply to openning
Bolden is a Cawmere lad. what do you expect?
In reply to sudden
I hope the BCA bring him and Leacock into it system immediately, by letting them spent the next two Australian summers, at an academy.
Investment in these players is very important.
In reply to openning
some where along the road we lose them. lets hope we have learnt from all our mistakes
In reply to sudden
He is well spoken of.
and I agree opening.
Hopefully we save more than we lose....
Archer had an option not open to most...
But to know our lads beat the snot out of them at the teen levels to only see the same men leaps and bounds better a few years later...really screams volumes....
All the coaching certificates bout the region and we are clearly not developing at the same pace as the others....
What will we do with this OBVIOUS information?
In reply to powen001
Isn't this an indictment in Butts himself- meaning he failed to harness and spot talent.
In reply to powen001
What I saw today, sadden me to think, these players are our second tier.
It was looking at a set of players, picked to play a fete match.
Very little work seem to be done, away from competition.
We can blame every administration, but players are the ones to bring fans back, which these guys are not mentally or physically able to do.
They just do not spent enough hours, working at the game.
In reply to openning
I have said this over and over, for a player to improve he must train daily, he must be fit, we see players going to tour after tour with the same problem, this is unacceptable, Steven smith a perfect example, a poor batsmen when he started, got dropped went away and worked on his game
now averages over 60, if 4 west Indian players do this we would be winning games more often
Why not set up a Proper Academy or
Academies in the Region and have them staffed with Our Former Great Players.
The stark freaking Fact is that Our
Former Players in their Stewardship of
the shortest format of the game Brought Honour & Glory to the Region .
through their ability to Harnessing &
Hone the skills of Our Players .
WHY THE HELL DO WE HAVE TO GO
OUTSIDE THE REGION TO GET OUR
PLAYERS SKILLS HARNESSED & HONED .
I Fear that Countries will one day
soon state that Overseas Players
cannot get Coaching in their Countries .
WE WENT DOWN THIS FREAKING ROAD
ALREADY , AND QUITE FRANKLY WE ARE
STILL SUFFERING FROM NOT HAVING IN
THE REGION A CRICKET LEAGUE UNTIL
ABOUT 8 YEARS AGO .
The salient point I am making is this :
WHY IS IT THAT WE CANNOT IN THE
REGION HARNESS & HONE THE SKILLS OF
OUR PLAYERS ?????
It aint that WE do not have Capable
and Competent Former Cricketers who
can do what is required to make Our
Players extremely competitive in the
International Cricket Arena .
In reply to POINT
Academies in the Region and have them staffed with Our Former Great Players.
An academy is for young developing players.
Ambris, Campbell, Chase, Dowrich, these players seem to work of their game, away from competition.
I follow Andre Russell on Instagram, his videos is about him, training, with his trainer.
This is a player working away from competition, even after an injury.
Link Text
In reply to powen001
Talent dey, but we wasting it.
In reply to openning
You failed to consider the fact that
Our Former Players who were in charge of the shortest version , harnessed and honed the skills of Our Players , who were I believe were in their 20's.
The undeniable fact is that Our Former
Players were able to hone the skills
of those Players to win 2 consecutive
World Championships in the shortest
version of the game .
NOW THIS IS A FACT NOT FICTION !!!!!
I am sick and Tired of the WICBC
hiring people from Overseas to come to the Region and be Coaches etc .
THOSE PEOPLE HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO
AFFINITY TO OUR PLAYERS ; UNLIKE OUR
FORMER PLAYERS . THERE IS
ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT THAT THEY DID
A GOOD JOB IN THEIR STEWARDSHIP OF
THE SHORTEST VERSION OF THE GAME .
Despite this , as soon as the People
in the WICBC took control of this
version of the game . Those Former
Great Players were fired .
I AM REMINDED OF THE WELL KNOWN
AXIOM "PENNY WISE & POUND FOOLISH".
Jofra Archer fulfilled his talent when he became a full time professional with Sussex.
How many full time professionals are there in the West Indies...?
In reply to POINT
you have it wrong....it has to do with the work ethic of the player and how badly he wants to improve, no Board or administrator for that matter can prevent a player from getting better if that player truly wants to improve
In reply to powen001
These two things are lost on the west Indies.... perseverance and patience....Butts had just said to the west Indian fan who wondered what really happened to Jofra, that they had no time to wait and see how Archer
would develop....he also exposed how inept they are.....while his peers were praising him, the establishment had already closed the door on the lad....I only hope the people who ragged and dragged him would finally get some idea as to how/why he ended up where he is........
Why shud cricketers be held to a different standard to doctors, lawyers, engineers etc.
It has been estimated dat in the region of 70% of tertiary level graduates from the English speaking Caribbean migrate overseas. We laud dem when dey mek it big on de international scene. Why not cricketers?
De WI cricket team cannot cater for every promising cricketer dat comes out of the ranks of the U19. Those who can make it elsewhere shud be encouraged to do so in de same way dat persons from other professions are.
In reply to POINT
Former players have been involve in WICB administration during this 25 years slump, can you tell us how many players transferred what their 50 over skill, to the longer format?
You come across as being a genius, you did not had to study.
I linked a video last week on Virat Kohli, he gave up partying, surrounded himself with a professional team, that assist him in his professional life.
The great professionals trains daily, former NFL players, knew what it was like, to train with Jerry Rice in the off season.
I watched Charlie Griffith on Sunday, bowling from 7:00 am-11::00 every Sunday morning on the beach.
Sir Everton said Seymour Nurse was the only batsman he knew batted seven straight days, in preparationfor a series, in which he surprise Simpson team, with double century.
Simpson said after the match, that he felt sorry for Nurse when he came to the wicket, after watching him bat, he said he felt sorry for his bowlers.
I was told that the great Viv Richards paid guys to bowl at him, when he was not International, County or regional duties.
This is what we are not hearing about, with these players today.
In reply to hawk
Make absolutely no mistake , I do not intend letting Players off the Hook .
However the first obligation is to have Cricket Academies .
I am of the opinion that Our Players must be physically FIT .
ALL OUR PLAYERS AT EVERY LEVEL OF
THE GAME IN MY OPINION MUST BE
PHYSICALLY FIT , THIS MUST INCLUDE
RUNNING .
The fact is that in any Sport,persons who are not physically
Fit are perpetually prone to making errors of Judgement in whatever Sport they are engaged in Playing ;
and these errors can decide the outcome of matches .
In reply to openning
Very little work seem to be done, away from competition.
We can blame every administration, but players are the ones to bring fans back, which these guys are not mentally or physically able to do.
They just do not spent enough hours, working at the game.
I totally agree, that has nothing to do with coaching, if they were working on their games themselves they would be better than that. I think it is better not to give out a contract than to give a contract and the money not be well spent.
In reply to POINT
Point...
If the attitutude to attend to your career is not a daily activity...then all the academies in the world cant really address the fundamentals.
Too many players as HAWK pointed out...are permitted to continue making the same mistakes without consequences...
they dont get dropped...and clearly any motivational talks to get them to address their short comings....dont appear to be taking root.
Cotteral...and Pooran...the two that we can SEE showed signs of APPLICATION and improvement!
Contrast to Hety....
Are you aware that NO BOWLER got him?
He out himself EVERY SINGLE INNINGS...
NO COACH can solve that out in the middle...
#personalresponsibility
In reply to Emir
Yes... I got that too...
But Talent wasnt the issue...
It really exposes our weak system that ( in the mind of the players discards them).... and leaves them to their own devices
In reply to openning
In reply to cherri
i have been told by his father that Jofra's step father had a lot to do with his development
In reply to sudden
Whoever has a hand in his development should feel some pride to see where he is at right now, no one knows the future, but at this point in his life they should be proud.......I am really sad to see how fellow west indians reacted to this turn of events, the nastiness that was thrown at the young man, the ill will, people wanting to see him bruck his feet when he take the field, all that was to my mind is stupid, he has not done any differently to what lots of others before him has done, but he was branded a traitor......I know a man personally in the west indies set up that doan open a window or door in the region......but life goes on and I wish that young man nothing but the best.......
In reply to powen001
You know how many Seymour Nurses and Garry Sobers', Brian Laras etc we got playing cricket for the west indies, the first thing that need to be done is to let the young players create their own identy, the worst and most stupid thing people do is the lump a former great player on a young players' back, you know the kind of pressure that is, poor lad never see one of these people in action and here he is being likened to them.......then when these youngsters don't produce like these people, yuh hear all sort of negative things thrown in their direction........the next thing is that some of them attained some loft feats early, so now, everytime they step on the field fickel minds are expecting them to do these things over and over again, when that don't happen, more negativity.....but we do thing differently around here, so wuh we bothering bout.......
In reply to cherri
if some can treat Lara and SHiv like shit, what yuh expect for a traitor?
In reply to powen001
I do not have a problem with what You have stated ; I would agree that theage of TV & the Internet are big distractions .
I believe that in every Primary School
and in every Secondary School there
should be a Period where those who play Cricket ; Football & Netball
can hone their Skills via Adults who have the ability to impart their
Knowledge & Experience to the Youngsters .
The fact however is that the first
thing on the Agenda regarding Cricket , MUST BE a Complete Restructuring of the WICBC .
IN MY OPINION CURRENT PEOPLE IN THE
WICBC CANNOT BE A PART OF THIS
RESTRUCTURING , THEY ARE ONLY
GOING TO SABOTAGE THE NEW STRUCTURE.
THE ABOVE ALSO MUST APPLY TO THE
REGIONAL CRICKET BOARDS .
When a Person goes to the Doctor , and the Doctor after carefully examining the Paitent , says You have Cancer ; and then states that
the only cure is Surgery , that part
of the Person is excised .
THE WICBC THEREFORE MUST UNDERGO A
COMPLETE RESTRUCTURING . THERE IS
NO OTHER REMEDY FOR WEST INDIES
CRICKET . IF THE GOAL IS TO SAVE
WEST INDIES CRICKET . ses
In my opinion the Regional Governments must be active Partners
in this Restructuring , so also must be Former Great Players & Current
Players .
It is time to heal the ocean between
those who govern and those who Represent the Region in the International Cricket Arenas .
Lawyers must also be in the new WICBC . They can give Legal Advice
regarding Contracts & Discipline .
I believe that if there were Lawyers
in the WICBC the Stupidity of cancelling the Tour of India that was in Progress .
The matter regarding Darren Bravo
possibly could have been avoided ;
also the usual back & forth regarding Players Salaries .
The Regional Boards would be unable
to be Dictatorial as they currently
are . In essence there must be harmony between those in the governance of West Indies Cricket and Our Players .
IT IS TIME WE PUT AN END TO PMS ,aka
PLANTATION MENTALITY SYNDROME . THIS
IS PRECISELY WHAT IS AN EXCEEDINGLY
LARGE CANCER IN WEST INDIES CRICKET;
AND MUST BE COMPLETELY EXCISED .
In reply to hawk
Chanderpaul did it, and we still cussed him and ditched him in favor of the same players you cussing
In reply to powen001
Why is it that other Cricket Playing
Countries Players do not go through
the Problems that Our Players go through every time they travel to represent the Region in the International Cricket Arena ?????
" A HOUSE DIVIDED CAN NEVER STAND ".
Unfortunately this axiom is lost on
Those in the WICBC for many Years due to the fact that those in the
WICBC perpetually think of themselves as Lords and the Players
their Serfs .
This B.S needs to end ; it prevents
Harmony between those who govern and
those who represent the Region in the International Cricket Arena .
i have no idea why everyone is so worried about Jofra Archer choosing England over the West Indies, i only pray he continues to be successful or else he will follow in the footsteps of those before him...Gary Ballance, Boyd Rankin(now playing for Ireland again), Ed Joyce (reverted back to Ireland, Now retired), Chris Jordan to name a few who had chosen England over their country of birth and now find themselves without any steady international cricket.
leave Archer alone, make no comment on him, the man has done what he wanted to do, our focus should be on those are ready and willing to represent us on the international stage
It's not how you start it's how you finish.
In reply to hawk
Why can't you just wish him well without worrying about how he may end up..if you are honest you would agree that no one treats players worse than the west Indies... there is a hint of sarcasm in your post..but plenty plenty players make a good living without any steady international cricket....carry on.
In reply to POINT
and in every Secondary School there
should be a Period where those who play Cricket ; Football & Netball
can hone their Skills via Adults who have the ability to impart their
Knowledge & Experience to the Youngsters .
If you follow youth cricket in the region, you would realize that our youths have been competing, for the last two decades, winning the U19 championship.
There is a break down with the development after that level, with players having to find jobs, and not able to work on their games, like in other countries.
For years you have been comparing the Invisible man to Anderson at the U19 level.
Anderson when from being an amateur cricketer to a professional county player, where he could work on his game 24/7.
Players can now work on their game, in every Island, if they want to be pros.
What we are seeing, players returning every tournament, with the same flaws that have been effecting them, previously.
Are our youngsters doing their homework, putting in the time, to be better International players?
In reply to cherri
CWi is not alone in bad treatment of players ECB is guilty as well i can think immediately of Kevin Peiterson, he openly stated he opted for England because he was upset he wasn't selected for the Under 19 world cup, this i find disappointing as a reason, nonetheless, it was his choice to make, on that premise i have seen what happens to players who made such a choice and i firmly expect the same to happen to him, he may on top the world right now, but a few bad games and it is over, don't for one sec think that ECB won't drop him either
i am fine being proven wrong if that is the case, but this is my stance right now, i wish him well in all areas,but he is not my focus i want to see west Indies players develop
In reply to openning
In reply to openning
I was simply stating the Freaking Fact that at the U-19 Level Kenroy Peters
played against an English U-19 Team that included James Anderson in a 5 Test Series .
In that series Kenroy Peters was
adjudged as being the Best Bowler
in the Series .
I also stated the fact that Kenroy
Peters despite his performances was
left to toil in obscurity .
James Anderson did not suffer the
same fate as Kenroy Peters ; his talents were harnessed & honed to the point where He has taken the most wickets for an English Pace Bowler.
NOW THE ABOVE AINT A FIGMENT OF MY
IMAGINATION .
The gist of what I have stated is the fact that England persisted with
James Anderson , and He now has the
record of having the most wickets for an English Pace Bowler .
Kenroy Peters on the other hand in
comparison was allowed to play in one Test Match in South Africa .
Fortunately for Peters , he was engaged in playing Cricket in both
England & now in Australia .
This to me speaks Volumes regarding
those in the Region in the governance of West Indies Cricket .
In reply to powen001
Too many players as HAWK pointed out...are permitted to continue making the same mistakes without consequences...
they dont get dropped...and clearly any motivational talks to get them to address their short comings....dont appear to be taking root.
Cotteral...and Pooran...the two that we can SEE showed signs of APPLICATION and improvement!
Contrast to Hety....
Are you aware that NO BOWLER got him?
He out himself EVERY SINGLE INNINGS...
NO COACH can solve that out in the middle...
Spot on. When you get to that level, you do not really need a coach to tell you how to play
In reply to powen001
Hey Powen.....he is home....home right here in Barbados walking the dogs barefoot.....the big Jof as the people in St.Far would tell yuh......
In reply to POINT
Every West Indies U19 suffered the same as Peters, Paul, Hetmyer, Joseph are three players from the championship team, that were given the opportunity at the International level.
You are referencing Peters because he is from SVG, but I can linked stats on numerous U19 world competition, where West Indies players performed as well or better, than player from other countries.
Jofra Archer was not even picked to represent the U19 West Indies team, the world saw him Among the top fast bowlers, in CWC19.
In reply to powen001
But we have no development system. Ask you wife.
In reply to POINT
WICBC CANNOT BE A PART OF THIS
RESTRUCTURING , THEY ARE ONLY
GOING TO SABOTAGE THE NEW STRUCTURE.
THE ABOVE ALSO MUST APPLY TO THE
REGIONAL CRICKET BOARDS .
The CWI is our STRUCTURE..and charged with the care of our Cricket.
Thats just the facts Point.
it would be untenable to think that we can simply block them from their primary responsibility.
I cant tell you of any other way to see results we want other than to engage them by whatever means necessary that will result in willing ears...
its a new Administration... perhaps the window of opportunity to influence them is fast closing...
perhaps.
In reply to cherri
yes..
I saw the clip last night... from several sources...and then the paper this morning reporting that all he said was that he was tired
In reply to openning
Yes Opening...
Butts in his defense said that he was not the best on show back then...
that is true...
But BUTTS further said...in reply to HOW COME you missed him?
He said...Thats life...it happens.
Cant argue with facts...
but what a miss!!!
World Cup winner...top bowler list...
In reply to natty_forever
We do but Oshane slipped through in our hustle to hustle to Hingland
In reply to powen001
Below is a link to the youngster returning Home, with his mom and stepdad.
The youngster that was shot in St Phillips was his cousin.
Link Text
In reply to openning
you dont miss a beat Opening...
Impressed with how close to the ground you are allllllll the way in Canada
In reply to powen001
WHAT DOES IT SAY OF A CRICKET BOARD
THAT IS ROUGHLY 111 YEARS OLD ; AND
HAS ABSOLUTELY REFUSED TO CHANGE ITS
STRUCTURE DESPITE COMMISSIONING
SEVERAL REPORTS WHICH WERE
IGNORED ???
In my opinion , what is needed is
the ICC to give the Region a hiatus
of 2 years so that The Region in that period Get new Structures in
the WICBC & the Regional Cricket
Boards .
In my opinion current occupants of
the WICBC & the Regional Cricket Boards must be ineligible for selection to those Boards .
THEY SAT ON THEIR ASSES FOR MANY
YEARS AND DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
REGARDING CHANGING THE 111 YEARS OLD
STRUCTURE . NOW THIS SURE AS HELL
AINT A FIGMENT OF MY IMAGINATION .
It is very sad that the WICBC & the
Regional Cricket Boards are afflicted with PMS :
PLANTATION MENTALITY SYNDROME .
Because THEY are afflicted with this
Syndrome , in my opinion Former Players & Current Players:
MUST BE IN THE WICBC & THE REGIONAL
CRICKET BOARDS . DOING THIS IN MY
OPINION WHOULD FOSTER HARMONY IN
WEST INDIES CRICKET .
The above is a very serious impediment to West Indies Cricket .It is high time that WE FACE THE
TRUTH REGARDING WEST INDIES CRICKET.
Disciplinary Committees must be staffed by Lawyers . The Eras of
Vendettas must come to an end .
I expect the Regional Governments
to also have Representation on ALL
Cricket Boards . Because They must
make Financial Contributions to the
WICBC , BTW, because of the WICBC
total Incompetence , It must have
a new name .
The fact is that our international players do put in work. Someone alluded to DreRuss and his personal trainer, but that is not a one off scenario and certainly should not be attributed to his success relative to the others.
The problem is who do these players have in their inner circle helping them develop or hone their technical, psychological and cognitive abilities. It should be clear to most by now that there are few in the region with a proven track record of SUCCESS whether as a mentor, coach, manager or performance enhancer. In fact, at this highest level of sport all of these titles are one and the same.
Butts is symptomatic of the very system that is quick to tell you the problem but you ask them the why and all they can respond and say is that we were not good enough or that they are others who were more deserving as in the case with Archer. The lad did not become talented in 3 years Mr. Butts!!!
I was in the UK last summer and saw the English ladies being prepared up close. Let me say that the level of preparation that I saw was better than perhaps all of our FC teams and maybe also the franchises. This has nothing to do with resources or the lack of which we like to use as our default. Performance enhancement has moved on from coaches putting down cones and being a manual bowling machine.
It doesn't matter how many of these young boys we cherry pick (and we like to do that as the parochial Caribbean people that we are), but if we are still feeding them into the same system that is devoid of ideas and know how then it will all be futile. Watch out for the next generation of player than will be informed of the Visa and other qualification requirements about playing abroad who will choose to take their chances elsewhere.
In reply to powen001
LET US ALL HEED THE WORDS OF THE
BIBLE :
" WE SIMPLY CANNOT POUR NEW WINE IN
OLD BOTTLES ". WE THEREFORE CANNOT
HAVE A NEW STRUCTURE MANAGED BY
THOSE CURRENTLY IN THE WICBC .THEY
ARE VERY LIKELY TO REVERT TO THE
PLANTATION MENTALITY SYNDROME , aka
PMS .
In reply to powen001
Impressed with how close to the ground you are allllllll the way in Canada
Living in the West with a small Caribbean population, you develop a close friendship, with people that share the same values.
Cricket was that that brought a number of us together, I started subscribing to the Nation about 1972, then I had subscription to Tony Cozier's Cricket Annual and Cricket Quarterly, on one of my visits in the late 80's, I went to Cozier's home and purchase the earlier editions.
So cricket is what keep me up to date, with him.
BTW, how can I forget Mr. Deane, he was a mentor, he also informed me about cricket.
In reply to openning
THat is some solid company Sir!
In reply to mkcharles
Not a man move....just watch the ball cross the boundary line and the umpire respond in kind.
In reply to POINT
But Point..
the Irony here is that you are not wrong in your ability to identify those choking us...
what I was asking you was what do you propose as a viable , solution?
We have changed boards but the system remains...the system rails against change...and even when some changes come...there is always some serious push back....
I posit that the fault lies in men trusting bonafide processes to do the right thing but fail miserably in trusting one another to follow through.
How many times have they hi jacked the process on the altar of the country flag and how it go look an I aint forgive he for what he did or didnt do?
Our issue is as plain to see as the naked Madonna....AND the issue is the HOW do we get people supported by the masses to finally trust one another to carry out the process they all agreed to in principle?
In reply to powen001
When bowlers serving up long hops you have to put some bat in it... but honestly, every time these fellas open their mouths it is clear at least to me where a great part of the problem lies.
In reply to mkcharles
Astute
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