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The Trial: When are Trump's lawyers going to debate..

 
Casper 2020-01-21 19:39:33 

The facts rather than the process.

So childish with this "it's ridiculous" remark.

 
black 2020-01-21 20:13:33 

In reply to Casper

They are not going to do it if they don't have to and from the look of things, they won't have to.

 
nitro 2020-01-21 20:16:27 

In reply to Casper

lol lol lol

 
Casper 2020-01-21 21:06:22 

Dems are eating Repugnant’s lunch.

So far the Repugnants have offered up some lame defense. In fact, very little defense so far.

Trump’s lawyers are just hoping Moscow Mitch and his Trump scary cats, who call themselves independent-thinking senators, can do their bidding - no documents, no relevant facts, just all process talk and an aborted trial. I thought Repugnants didn’t believe in aborting anything.

 
Runs 2020-01-21 21:31:34 

Fox News host Chris Wallace observed on Tuesday that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) had been forced to “back down” on impeachment trial rules that critics said were designed to cover up offenses committed by President Donald Trump. lol

 
carl0002 2020-01-21 21:36:15 

In reply to Runs
So similar to how the Pinocchio mob bass of a president committing crimes on national television, the President Network Faux News even reporting on the obvious cover up and will still claim Pinocchio did nothing wrong.

Chris Wallace might need protection after this.

 
Runs 2020-01-21 21:38:28 

In reply to carl0002

The so-called White House counsel is not defending the institution of the office of the president on behalf of the people, it is defending Donald Trump. They have all bought into the conspiracy. They recognize that to agree to witnesses and documents is to verify the second article of impeachment, that to withhold evidence is obstruction of Congress. It is Catch-22 and they have opted for the lie.

 
carl0002 2020-01-21 22:05:20 

In reply to Runs
That's why the Trump legal team not geared for a trial, they all geared up for an acquittal and everyone of their lawyers have a credibility issue.

 
Ewart 2020-01-21 22:49:46 

In reply to Casper


We still have to see how the Chief Justice will rule.

Repugs are arguing for a "no-case" submission.

But I believe the CJ will be the one to decide... if this is going to look any way like a real trial process.


//

 
Ewart 2020-01-22 10:57:29 

The Federation Dilemma (from my book We Come From Jamaica)

As leader of the PNP, Norman Manley's first goal was to achieve for Jamaica what Fairclough had seen in Haiti, and gain self-government and independence.

The first hurdle was the vote, which was not available to all as there were restrictions that barred most of the population, and so he had to work on getting the vote for every adult. As we have seen, his negotiations with the Colonial Secretary eventually bore the desired fruit of universal adult suffrage, and this led to the elections in 1944.

By the time he began building the foundations of modern Jamaica in 1955, however, he had allowed the colonial powers to convince him that it would be easier to gain independence in collaboration with other West Indian territories than as Jamaica by itself. In 1949, with encouragement from the British but without the full support of his party, he advocated entering into a federation with nine other West Indian territories. The idea was that the federation would be preparatory to independence for Jamaica, and the Federation of the West Indies was eventually established in 1958.

Accordingly, it was expected that he would leave Jamaica for the Federal capital in Trinidad to lead his federal party. But he was caught on the horns of a dilemma: accept the leadership of a federal government of shaky status and no money, and go to Trinidad; or stay to see the consummation of Jamaican constitutional advance for which he had worked so hard.

After long thought, he told a large, expectant political rally at Half Way Tree that he would not go to Trinidad to lead the Federation; he would stay in Jamaica.

Bustamante jumped on it immediately.

With the slogan “Jamaica Yes; Federation No,” he declared that his JLP would take Jamaica out of the Federation.

Norman Manley, already renowned for his commitment to democracy, called a referendum – unprecedented in Jamaica – to let the people decide.

As it happened, the people were not convinced that this Federation was for them. Much as they respected Norman Manley, they were not at all persuaded by his federal arguments. They knew the abilities of Norman Manley and Alexander Bustamante. They felt they were better than those of the leaders of the other territories, with whom they were far less familiar. They recoiled from the news that the Federal capital was not going to be in Jamaica but in Trinidad. Worse, they rejected the notion that although Jamaica had a larger population than the other territories put together, it would not have a majority of seats in the federal parliament and the lion’s share of the taxation would be borne by Jamaica.

It was an unfair situation of taxation without adequate representation -- a matter over which the American War of Independence had been fought and won. And when the possibility of retroactive taxation was mentioned, the whole cause was lost for it provided potent new ammunition for Bustamante. Besides, Manley’s lieutenants in the PNP were not enthused and so they had given no more than lukewarm support to the campaign.

Seizing the moment, Bustamante played heavily on this and the people’s distrust of the leaders of the other territories. He was particularly disdainful of Trinidad’s Eric Williams. As he told the House one day,

"If I or the Premier (Manley) died, there would be no one to lead the West Indies in Federation but that contemptible Eric Williams … what Jamaican who is not a traitor to his country would want Williams to rule over us? – (Lance Neita, Jamaica Observer, Aug 23, 2012).

The ensuing discussions and debates left much fear and confusion in their minds and when the day came they voted resolutely against the Federation, leaving Louise Bennett to pen Dear Departed Federation which seemed to be part apology, excerpts from which appear here:

… de heap o' boderation
Eena fe we lickle nation
From de start o' yuh duration
Meck we frighten an frustrate.

A noh tief meck yuh departed
A noh lie meck yuh departed
But a fearful meck we careful
How we let yuh tru we gate.

Fearful bout de big confusion
Bout de final constitution
An Jamaica contribution
All we spirit aggravate...


But when Jamaica left, there was still a Federation of the West Indies..... Until Dr. Williams came with his New Math.


//

 
sudden 2020-01-22 11:55:17 

In reply to Ewart

some good back history but you put it on the wrong thread, man

 
POINT 2020-01-22 12:52:38 

In reply to Ewart

My understanding is that the Chief Justice's power in this Trial is very limited . In essence it is all about
numbers ; and the Republicans numerically have more members to dominate the Trial .

In order to dominate the proceedings the Democrats will have to get 4 Republican Members to vote with them .
The magic number is 51 ; which the Democrats need in order to have some Clout in the Trial . Currently the Democrats only have 47 Votes .