The Independent Voice of West Indies Cricket

Message Board Archives

HEADLINE: 'It has been tough transitioning back just as a player' - Jason Holder

 
CaribbeanCricket.com 2020-04-12 14:58:07 

Jason Holder has admitted that it was "tough" for him to "transition" back to being a player in the ODI side after Cricket West Indies replaced him with Kieron Pollard as the white-ball captain last September. Although Holder remains the Test captain, his performances in ODI cricket post the 2019 World Cup have weakened, which he said also had to do with him batting lower down the order where he didn't have enough time to settle before making an impact.

"To be quite honest, it has been tough transitioning back just as a player," Holder told the Cricket Collective podcast on TalkSPORT last week. "In hindsight, it has been tough trying to understand how to get back in as just a player."

CWI had stated that one of the reasons behind Pollard's appointment as the white-ball captain was to improve West Indies' performances in limited-overs cricket, especially in ODIs where West Indies had finished ninth in the ten-team World Cup last year. But Holder was caught unawares by the timing of CWI's decision.

Read more at ESPNcricinfo

 


Full Story

 
Headley 2020-04-12 15:49:38 

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com


"To be quite honest, it has been tough transitioning back just as a player," Holder told the Cricket Collective podcast on TalkSPORT last week.


We noticed.

 
solidrock 2020-04-12 20:01:42 

Honest evaluation.

 
Onionman0 2020-04-13 06:08:32 

Dedicated,honest and discipline cricketer

 
CITYBOY 2020-04-13 13:26:52 

Hola...count your lucky stars Mr Holder....you are an average cricketer that had no business playing at the highest level for so long....however the fact that you were made captain and thus 'UNDROPPABLE"...allowed you the opportunity to get a few runs and wickets...
Just relax and take it easy...hopefully you may be able to retain your test team position because of performance...and not because of your being captain.
Adios
CB

 
Jumpstart 2020-04-13 14:44:34 

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

I can understand holder's predicament. Recognizing his limitations would help here. The fact is that his only odi credible odi series performance was the england series just after a test series win. He did not have to motivate anyone on the team.. The CWC was an absolute disaster. Losing 7 of 9 games is unacceptable. We look at the present. Defeated Afghanistan(something holder was unable to do), carried india tothe finish line in both t20sand odis, should have beaten sri lanka if it was not for a few brain farts while batting and suprisingly poor fielding....pollard was among theguilty parties.

 
Darkprince32 2020-04-13 23:40:46 

In reply to CITYBOY

How many ODIs, T20Is, Tests have you played I wonder?

 
CITYBOY 2020-04-14 00:02:27 

In reply to Darkprince32

Hola...none....you see in our days you had to make a cricket 11 on merit and talent....not someone who happens to like you and give carte blance..""CANNOT BE DROPPED"""
Whenever I made it to a team..was because of merit..

Thats why WI cricket going no where....
Adios
CB

 
openning 2020-04-14 01:55:27 

In reply to CITYBOY
It is total stupidity or ignorance to say, a person name the leading allrounder in a format, Is an average
cricketer.
A Trini captain, at the U19 level, made me look at Jason Holder, he claimed Jason was the best player he saw at that level.
I am of the opinion that Jason should work on his game, the nonsense with him pretending to be a Powerhitter in 50 overs or T20, is not his game.
The young man has the ability to develop his game, similar to what we saw in Angelo Mathews or a Ben Stokes
His role now is to be the go to bowler, which he is not.

 
Darkprince32 2020-04-14 02:02:17 

In reply to CITYBOY

In your day! You’re talking about a guy who spent the better part of the last year as the no#1 test allrounder. Who is currently no#3 in test bowling rankings. Who averages 32 with the bat, has three test hundreds including a double against a team currently ranked fourth in world. But I suppose that wouldn’t have been good enough for an allrounder back in your day.

 
openning 2020-04-14 03:04:52 

In reply to Darkprince32

I don't think CITYBOY is a fan with malice toward a player.
Jason approach to ODI or T20 cricket, is just not up to standard.

 
Jumpstart 2020-04-14 05:55:51 

In reply to openning

Exactly. Case in point. Australia were 80-5 in the world cup. They were clearly having problems with Oshane's pace and Soldier's swing. Holder proceeds to bring on Ashley Nurse( i have never seen a more useless cricketer) and Aus end up making 280+...from 80-5. Piss poor captaincy.

 
CITYBOY 2020-04-14 12:11:59 

Hola....guys you are missing the point...he is average and still average...and yes he has had some decent scores and all rounder analysis etc...
BUT HE WAS GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO FAIL FAIL FAIL AND THEN PRODUCE>>
try and get that i...he was UNDROPPABLE...he did not at times merit his place on performance..
And right now he has peaked and is in astate of regression...
anyway..thats how it goes...

I guess Kraig Braithwaite will also get an opportunity to continue failing and still get pick..

I said my piece..and its been challenged and thats what talk is all about....but I will stick to my opinion..
ADIOS
CB

 
Veracity 2020-04-14 14:13:16 

In reply to CITYBOY

I agree that Jason H. is NOT an international 20/20 player but he can contribute in ODIs. If you look around at the current talent pool you can't find 2-players that are better than him based on the role he plays.
Please - Can you list some players that you think are bench marks (better than Jason) that should replace Jason in the Test Team? Don't list Dwayne Bravo - he is not a Test Player; look at his Stats.

If you are going to prove or disprove a player's worth then provide FACTS - facts can't be disputed, and it gives an argument credibility.

 
openning 2020-04-14 15:03:30 

In reply to CITYBOY

I said my piece..and its been challenged and thats what talk is all about....but I will stick to my opinion..
ADIOS
CB


Here a list of The Barbados Pride stats, for the last six years, I would like to see others, so a good and fair discussion can be have.
Link Text

 
Jumpstart 2020-04-14 15:18:33 

In reply to Veracity

Didn't say he should be dropped. He has made himself into a fine cricketer. But odi captaincy requires an agression and assertiveness that he just does not seem to have

 
CITYBOY 2020-04-17 11:55:16 

In reply to openning

Hola....WI have invested a lot in this young man...
I personally think he is a fair bat..and someone who can throw his arm around a bit..
I hope it all works out for Mr Holder going forward.....let's see..
I do not like to quote and argue using old data....
a cricketer is as good as his last 2 or 3 games...
Everyone argues differently...I may and possibly is totally wrong in my judgement....and cannot prove nor disprove..and thats why its called conversation.

Adios
CB

 
Jumpstart 2020-04-17 17:04:23 

In reply to CITYBOY

That investing is an interesting word. Have they invested in stregth and conditioning, grooming for leadership, even the technical aspects of his bowling? I think not. The WI does not invest in players. If your investing in players, it means you have structures, academies, mentorship etc. Holder only had the HPC and had spent- the quality of which is yet to be determined. If you sah he had responsibilities forced on him by political operatives like De big idiot, that illiterate fool, and courtney browne, then i would agree with you. And in the earlies, it did hamper his career. But i am really impressed by holder. He has grit that few WI players around him have. Most players would have been psychologically damaged by the absolutely fearful beatings AB de Villears gave him in the odi series in SA and the world vup. But 5 years later, he's now the best allrounder in the world. If carlos had balls like him he might get somewhere above average, but i also see carlos as symptomatic of the lack of aforementioned 'structures' thst the WICB seems hell bent on not implimenting. And on Roger Harper's comments,while the individual boards have a role to play in developing players, the WICB has the final responsibilty. You do not see NSW or Victoria running Australia's cricket academies

 
Jumpstart 2020-04-17 17:04:24 

In reply to CITYBOY

That investing is an interesting word. Have they invested in stregth and conditioning, grooming for leadership, even the technical aspects of his bowling? I think not. The WI does not invest in players. If your investing in players, it means you have structures, academies, mentorship etc. Holder only had the HPC and had spent- the quality of which is yet to be determined. If you sah he had responsibilities forced on him by political operatives like De big idiot, that illiterate fool, and courtney browne, then i would agree with you. And in the earlies, it did hamper his career. But i am really impressed by holder. He has grit that few WI players around him have. Most players would have been psychologically damaged by the absolutely fearful beatings AB de Villears gave him in the odi series in SA and the world cup. But 5 years later, he's now the best allrounder in the world. If carlos had balls like him he might get somewhere above average, but i also see carlos as symptomatic of the lack of aforementioned 'structures' that the WICB seems hell bent on not implimenting.And its not only their fault. The legends who can really help WI players are engaged in other pursuits or not picked. The onrs who do are more autocratic than nuturing: guys like andy roberts viv and others who have had senior positions in management or selection and never came out with their reps enhanced. Viv in particular always gioing to the media instead of settling his grouces privately. And on Roger Harper's comments,while the individual boards have a role to play in developing players, the WICB has the final responsibilty. You do not see NSW or Victoria running Australia's cricket academies. But i like Mikey Holding can see light st the end of tge tunnel. What we need aldo, and holding suggested it is a constitutional law expert to change the constitution of CWI. Its antequated, prone to myopia and ax a result of the big idiot's making the organization public, accountanble to no one but the icc, a corrupt organization

 
openning 2020-04-20 03:35:48 

In reply to Jumpstart

Viv in particular always gioing to the media instead of settling his grouces privately. And on Roger Harper's comments,while the individual boards have a role to play in developing players, the WICB has the final responsibilty. You do not see NSW or Victoria running Australia's cricket academies.

The development of players, is quite different than in the region.
I am quite sure youngsters are drafted into English Counties, and Australia and other country local professional teams, from an early age.
I've written about my wife's first cousin, who was drafted by Arsenal at the age of 13 years, he lived in Toronto.

BATTING ALL-ROUNDER NICO REIFER HAS AGREED A ONE-YEAR ROOKIE CONTRACT WITH SURREY UNTIL THE END OF THE 2020 SEASON.


18-year-old Reifer made his first appearance for the Club’s age group sides at 15 and has been educated at Whitgift School for the last four years. Since his 2nd XI debut for the Club in 2017, the Barbados-born youngster has made ten appearances at that level across all formats.
Reifer will head to Perth in November to play grade cricket for Midland-Guildford alongside Scott Borthwick, who spent the 2018/19 winter with the Club, before returning to Surrey ahead of the 2020 English domestic season.

Link Text

 
Jumpstart 2020-04-20 04:20:51 

In reply to openning

Well their starting capital would far exceed anything a regional body could muster up. The WICB receives funding for development from the icc. Thst would be more than most regional sponsors would be able or willing to give.

Also, do you remember, in tge midsts of humiliating beatibgs from theWI in the 80s, the ACB(now CA) was organizing an academy to train their future stars in the basics of the professional game. Mcgrath, langer, gillespie, clarke were all recipients of training at the academy. Bumrah is a product of MRF's pace academy andso was Dilhara fernanfo in sri lanka.

And that's my point. The WICB does not engage in training. The HPC could hsve been a good initiative, but Dave got rid of thst. I rememberAdrian Bharath beforehe debuted for the WI wrnt to the "academy" in Grenada and he said it was the most pointless excercise he had ever engaged in.

 
openning 2020-04-20 05:41:07 

In reply to Jumpstart

I believe it was in 1976 after Olympics that the government of Australia, had it first sports ministry.
CA is part of that ministry
Our players benefitted from playing cricket in England, our T20 stars also benefitted from the IPL and various T 20 leagues.
The difference I believe between the the players that played in England and the T20 players, is the different formats they played.
I believe players like Bigb and Pollard will struggle at the ODI and test level.

 
Jumpstart 2020-04-20 13:20:35 

In reply to openning

Thats ironic eh. If Caricom decides to get more than rabble rousing role in WI cricket, the ICC will suspend us for government interference, while CA, PCB, BCB, and the BCCI all have government appointees in influential roles

 
openning 2020-04-20 15:26:25 

In reply to Jumpstart
Bro, take sometime to read about Sports Australia, cricket is among the many sports that is included.

The ASC was established in 1985 and operates under the Australian Sports Commission Act 1989 and is governed by a Board of Commissioners appointed by the Minister for Sport.

The Board determines the ASC’s overall direction, decides on allocation of resources and policy for delegated decisions, and is accountable to the Minister of Sport.

The ASC unites two entities: Sport Australia — responsible for driving the broader sport sector including participation, physical activity and industry growth and the Australian Institute of Sport — leading our high performance sport system.



Link Text