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Art of Jamaican cricket

 
trev114 2020-05-06 17:51:53 

Archived video per Lords

 
Dukes 2020-05-06 19:53:35 

In reply to trev114

Thank you Sir.

Very nice indeed

 
Oilah 2020-05-06 22:38:34 

Wonderful to see the stalwarts as younger men. A joy to see Sir Frank and I take it the Gaskin sitting with Allan Rae Goddard Worrell Gomez and Sobers is the Gaskin who Dukes spoke of with high praise.

 
Dukes 2020-05-06 22:45:27 

In reply to Oilah

Berkley Gaskin indeed was quite a guy.Quick of wit, former test cricketer and President of the Demerar Cricket Club,home of Lloyd,Gibbs,Wiltshire and Roger Harper.Berkley also was Manager of the WI team that toured England in 1963 and Manager of the BG team for several years.His wife was Minister of Education back in the 1960's.

 
camos 2020-05-06 22:50:14 

was that'66?

 
Dukes 2020-05-06 22:51:23 

In reply to camos

1966 YES

 
sudden 2020-05-06 23:16:35 

In reply to Dukes

Gaskin -another bajan name big grin

 
DonD 2020-05-06 23:35:49 

In reply to trev114
Lotsa memories. Very enjoyable. Thanks!!

 
hubert 2020-05-07 17:00:09 

In reply to DonD

Have some time on my hands till five o'clock today. Just watched it..Yes some good memories.
Someone mentioned Gaskin..That was wonderful Team manager.Managed tour with Gilchrist's
problems in 58-59..If he were'nt agood man, Gillie would have left after only one Test.

That group of selectors is seen in pleasant mode..But in the selectors meeting to pick that 17 man tour
of England that followed, it was very unplesant for Worrell.the ...horse trading kinda exercise was
distasteful to him..and when all reasonableness failed..Carew and McMorris went back to England,.
There was no place .no place for a young Clive Lloyd and the Barbadians were angry that they did not get 11 players in the squad..
pressing the claims for Bynoe and Prof Edwards without success .
To maintain some quota Cohen was taken to replace his fellow man,King who was injured and Solomon got his benefit tour.
However some things were corrected for the following 3 Test tour of India.

 
Dukes 2020-05-07 17:25:15 

In reply to hubert

WOW. I never knew that Berkley Gaskin was Manager for the 1958-59 tour.Gaskin was an aristocrat in his upbringing but he worked with numerous working class cricketers in Georgetown including guys from Transport and Harbors Department which had very working class guys.I know, because he and my father had what can only be described as mentoring classes for those guys who did not have secondary education and in some cases very little primary education.

Lloyd in his first book said that he was told that the Bajan selector told the Guyanese selector that he would only support Lloyd if the Guyanese selector supported Bynoe.In the end neither went on tour. Worrell did like Solomon so maybe it was he who spoke up for Joe.
I remember Clyde Walcott saying that all Bynoe has to do is score a century and he would be WI captain for life. We can not underestimate the contribution Big Clyde made to Guyana cricket by eliminating the discrimination against Guyanese cricketers from outside Georgetown.

 
DonD 2020-05-07 17:34:55 

In reply to hubert

I believe there were 8 Bajans on the team. Rawl Brancker was one, don't really know why he was selected. He was the slowest spin bowler I have ever seen. Don't believe Gaskin was the manager, I thought Jeff Stollmeyer managed the team.

 
Dukes 2020-05-07 17:44:19 

In reply to DonD

Gaskin was Manager for the 1963 tour not the 1966 tour.Will check to see who was.

 
Dukes 2020-05-07 17:47:41 

In reply to DonD

Stollmeyer was Manager in 1966 tour of England

 
sudden 2020-05-07 17:54:41 

In reply to DonD

Rawl Brancker was one, don't really know why he was selected. He was the slowest spin bowler I have ever seen.


hahahaha. that is a good one

 
DonD 2020-05-07 18:01:25 

In reply to Dukes

I remember Clyde Walcott saying that all Bynoe has to do is score a century and he would be WI captain for life.



I have a feeling that big Clyde was shooting the breeze. Could never see a white man becoming WI captain in the mid to late 60s.

 
hubert 2020-05-07 18:06:47 

In reply to DonD

Rawle Brancker...yes you could have a Red Stripe before the red ball gets to you..But the fellow Howard ,the offie who
debuted at Bourda against NZ could run him close .
I can remember 9 in the 66 Squad ...Sobers, Hunte,Nurse,Holford,Hall,Griffith,Lashley,Brancker and David Allan, back up WK to
Hendriks..
Those were the days

smile

 
hubert 2020-05-07 18:16:06 

In reply to Dukes
Sobers said the same thing about Bynoe . But I did not think that would happen as we would have moved on
from the white days of leadership . But there was still white leadership in the WICBC still.I think the Politicians wouldhave prevented it.

Walcott's contribution to Guyana's cricket is immense in many ways.
He was a very good man..Met and spoke with him..and gave straight answers something we all liked.

I only knew of Gaskin back then because his name came up with a conversation with Headley.He was highly regarded
and seeing his background now sheds light on why .

 
Dukes 2020-05-07 19:01:30 

In reply to hubert

Berkley Gaskin was Wes Hall before Wes Hall when it comes to GAFFING.Dat man could TALK SWEET!!!!!LOL

BTW I would not dismiss Big Clyde's comment on Bynoe as Stephen Camacho was earmarked for leadership.People also talked about Joey Carew being WI captain in the early 70's since Garry had lost against India in 1971 and drew all 5 tests against New Zealand in 1972 while Carew was leading Trinidad to 3 consecutive Shell Shield titles.

 
Larr Pullo 2020-05-07 21:31:01 

In reply to Dukes

as Stephen Camacho was earmarked for leadership.


When????

 
StumpCam 2020-05-07 22:25:41 

Lemme quiz you old timers and aficionados on something the narrator said and was demonstrated by Sobers in the video! “Sobers grip for bowling his googly!”
Has the the definition of a googly been revised since then and when was that change implemented???

 
Dukes 2020-05-07 22:43:41 

In reply to Larr Pullo

1.In 1971 Stephen Camacho was named Captain of the WI Board President's XI vs the Indian touring team

2.In 1971 Rohan Kanhai was named Guyana captain but was unable to play a game against Trinidad and despite Basil Butcher being in the team Stephen Camacho was named captain of the Guyana team.

3.I heard a former Guyana and West Indies cricket selector and Manager say and I quote"Stephen needs to cement his place in the WI team and once he does that he will become Captain of the West Indies.I think this was early 1973

I will check the specific match in my #2 point.

 
Dukes 2020-05-07 22:48:00 

In reply to Larr Pullo

Guyana v Trinidad and Tobago
Shell Shield 1970/71
Venue Bourda, Georgetown on 23rd, 24th, 25th, 26th April 1971 (4-day match)
Balls per over 6
Toss Toss not known
Result Match drawn
Points Guyana 6; Trinidad and Tobago 2
Close of play day 1 Guyana (1) 322/3 (Butcher 90*, McRae 30*)
Close of play day 2 Trinidad and Tobago (1) 112/5 (de Souza 30*, Bartholomew 0*)
Close of play day 3 Trinidad and Tobago (2) 19/0 (Carew 12*, Durity 5*)
Guyana first innings Runs Balls Mins 4s 6s
*GS Camacho c Durity b Bartholomew 117
I Surienarine c Durity b Bartholomew 8
AI Kallicharran c Durity b Carew 64
BF Butcher b Ali 162
LA McRae run out (de Souza) 39
R Ramnarace st Lewis b Jumadeen 36 91 5 -
+MR Pydanna c Lewis b Noreiga 30
WM Jeffrey not out 17
KC Glasgow c Durity b Noreiga 35
S Shivnarine lbw b Carew 1
SJ Matthews c Durity b Carew 0
Extras (4 b, 16 lb, 8 nb) 28
Total (all out, 159 overs) 537
Fall of wickets:
1-28 (Surienarine), 2-148 (Kallicharran), 3-274 (Camacho), 4-340 (McRae), 5-428 (Ramnarace), 6-466 (Butcher), 7-488 (Pydanna), 8-533 (Glasgow), 9-535 (Shivnarine), 10-537 (Matthews, 159 ov)
Trinidad and Tobago bowling Overs Mdns Runs Wkts Wides No-Balls
Bartholomew 20 1 76 2 - -
CA Davis 32 5 60 0 - -
Noreiga 41 5 110 2 - -
Jumadeen 26 2 104 1 - -
Ali 25 3 104 1 - -
Carew 15 2 55 3 - -
Trinidad and Tobago first innings Runs Balls Mins 4s 6s
*MC Carew c sub (H Pertab) b Ramnarace 27
OM Durity lbw b Matthews 5
RM de Souza run out (Shivnarine) 95 228 15 -
BA Davis lbw b Ramnarace 9
CA Davis c Pydanna b Matthews 0
D Ramkissoon b Jeffrey 40
PCS Bartholomew not out 95
+AJ Lewis lbw b Camacho 39
I Ali c Jeffrey b Matthews 3
RR Jumadeen lbw b Camacho 0
JM Noreiga b Camacho 0
Extras (6 b, 5 lb, 1 nb, 2 w) 14
Total (all out, 120 overs) 327
Fall of wickets:
1-28 (Durity), 2-32 (Carew), 3-41 (BA Davis), 4-42 (CA Davis), 5-112 (Ramkissoon), 6-220 (de Souza), 7-305 (Lewis), 8-315 (Ali), 9-327 (Jumadeen), 10-327 (Noreiga, 120 ov)
Guyana bowling Overs Mdns Runs Wkts Wides No-Balls
Ramnarace 19 5 77 2 - -
Matthews 19 3 60 3 - -
Glasgow 15 4 50 0 - -
Jeffrey 27 8 50 1 - -
Butcher 13 1 40 0 - -
Shivnarine 18 4 26 0 - -
Camacho 9 4 10 3 - -
Trinidad and Tobago second innings (following on) Runs Balls Mins 4s 6s
*MC Carew lbw b Glasgow 40
OM Durity c sub (H Pertab) b Camacho 29
CA Davis c Camacho b Glasgow 0 1 1 - -
BA Davis c Kallicharran b Shivnarine 26
RM de Souza not out 59
D Ramkissoon b Shivnarine 1
PCS Bartholomew not out 53
+AJ Lewis did not bat
I Ali did not bat
RR Jumadeen did not bat
JM Noreiga did not bat
Extras (1 b, 5 lb) 6
Total (5 wickets, 124 overs) 214
Fall of wickets:
1-65 (Carew), 2-65 (CA Davis), 3-94 (Durity), 4-110 (BA Davis), 5-118 (Ramkissoon)
Guyana bowling Overs Mdns Runs Wkts Wides No-Balls
Matthews 12 2 33 0 - -
Glasgow 21 5 45 2 - -
Jeffrey 32 16 34 0 - -
Shivnarine 26 10 41 2 - -
Ramnarace 7 1 10 0 - -
Butcher 3 1 3 0 - -
Camacho 16 4 35 1 - -
Kallicharran 4 2 3 0 - -
Surienarine 2 0 3 0 - -
McRae 1 0 1 0 - -
Notes
--> LA McRae made his debut in first-class matches
--> GS Camacho (1) passed his previous highest score of 106 in first-class matches
--> BF Butcher (1) 100 in 189 minutes with 11 fours
--> BF Butcher (1) passed 11500 runs in first-class matches when he reached 64
--> KC Glasgow (1) passed his previous highest score of 13 in first-class matches
--> PCS Bartholomew (1) passed his previous highest score of 60 in first-class matches
--> AJ Lewis (1) passed his previous highest score of 26 in first-class matches
--> SJ Matthews achieved his best innings bowling analysis in first-class matches when he dismissed I Ali in the Trinidad and Tobago first innings (previous best was 2-51)
--> GS Camacho achieved his best innings bowling analysis in first-class matches when he dismissed RR Jumadeen in the Trinidad and Tobago first innings (previous best was 1-2)

THIS ISHT IS REAL!!!!!!!

Basil had to tek orders from Stephen whose father owned all the zinc sheets at Bourda!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

 
StumpCam 2020-05-08 00:45:39 

In reply to StumpCam

Lemme quiz you old timers and aficionados on something the narrator said and was demonstrated by Sobers in the video! “Sobers grip for bowling his googly!”
Has the the definition of a googly been revised since then and when was that change implemented???


Seems like since SpudMckenzie departed this MB there are no more aficionados around! big grin

If I remembered correctly, the general consensus on this MB is that, the googly is only bowled by right handed bowlers, whereas the chinaman is bowled by left handed bowlers!
Thus my question above!

 
Dukes 2020-05-08 01:29:55 

In reply to StumpCam

If I remembered correctly, the general consensus on this MB is that, the googly is only bowled by right handed bowlers, whereas the chinaman is bowled by left handed bowlers!


I doubt that is the general consensus on the board.If it is,I strongly disagree with it.

A Chinaman is bowled by a left handed bowler and to a right hand batsman it turns from off to leg.A GOOGLY by a left handed bowler instead of turning from off to leg, turns from leg to off with the same action.
As Spuds would say

PHEW

 
StumpCam 2020-05-08 01:43:09 

In reply to Dukes

You’re right as usual! I looked it up before you responded and there was an illustration of Kuldeep Yadav’s variations and it was described as such!
wink

 
Dukes 2020-05-08 01:55:07 

In reply to StumpCam

Yuh sure yuh were not trolling?

lol lol lol lol lol lol

 
hubert 2020-05-08 02:00:34 

In reply to Dukes

Yes he was...but in a good way


lol lol lol

 
hubert 2020-05-08 02:21:36 

In reply to Dukes

Camacho was in the 16 selected for the 65-66 tour of India which was aborted and postponed for a year following some hostilities with India and Pakistan.
However the Board contacted the Media houses in the Caribbean in time before the squad was published, Camacho had made a big ton for Guyana Colts against the
Bobby Simpson led squad...so maybe the ground work was being laid.He would have been the reserve opener to Hunte and Bryan Davis.

Bynoe's good showing in the inaugural Shell Shield propelled himself back in the reckoning and having toured India and Pakistan as a 17 year old,was
named for the 66-67 version along with Davis ,but as discussed elsewhere the bickering and such in the selection for the 1966 England tour accounted for Bynoe's omission then and both Carew and McMorris of the 1963 tour,were retained.
As they say, where there is smoke there is fire.
Bynoe partnered Hunte in all 3 Tests in India failed and his career ended.Had he been a huge success who knows what could have happened especially after that
infamous declaration by Sobers in Trinidad,in what was Camacho's debut series on the retirement of Hunte.
Sobers and Walcott were well acquainted with the machinations of the WICBC, so some vibes might have been detected.
What I do know though that whenh time came for his replacement,Sobers who was consulted , offered one name,Rohan Kanhai who we all knew would be short term.
Of course there was speculation that Carew and Holford were ,at that time among the names on some lips.
In the end, the best man, C H Lloyd came up tops .

 
Dukes 2020-05-08 02:37:16 

In reply to hubert

Stephen Camacho's grandfather played for both Barbados and Guyana.His name was George Learmond and his son-in-law was George Camacho who also played for British Guiana.Stephen,therefore was a third generation first class cricketer.His father George allegedly owned part of Bourda according to the spit press in B.G,hence after Stephen scored 157 for the B.G Colts against the Aussies in 1965 he was immediately promoted to play for B.G in the territorial match..They claimed that the boy had PEDIGREE!!!!!
Berkley had a soft spot for Stephen,having played with his father so he was quite partial to Stephen.Kenny Wishart as well.Those guys ruled B.G cricket and if all the big wigs are pulling for you.........

 
hubert 2020-05-08 02:59:48 

In reply to Dukes
I knew of George Camacho but did not know of Learmond..Pedigree ?? more like Privilege

lol lol lol

 
Toney 2020-05-08 19:01:25 

In reply to StumpCam

[b]If I remembered correctly, the general consensus on this MB is that, the googly is only bowled by right handed bowlers, whereas the chinaman is bowled by left handed bowlers!
Thus my question above![/b]


It is not only the general consensus of the MB. In International cricket vernacular,only rightarm bowlers bowl offspin,legspin and googly

Leftarm bowler bowls orthodox leftarm spin,Chinaman and wrong 'un

Therefore, Sobers does not bowl a google. his 4 styles of bowling are:fast medium,which he developed while playing league cricket in England,orthodox leftarm spin,leftarm chinaman and wrong 'un