Message Board Archives

Do you think Guyana's election vote count was rigged?

Yes or No

In reply to Curtis

Yes, there is clear and compelling evidence of that with the prior 2 declarations and subsequent attempts to swear in the coalition by.

In reply to Curtis

Come on, man. Is that even a question?

Even the old time riggers (Kit Nascimento and Hamilton Green) openly calling this "rigging".

In reply to Norm

I am not convinced that sentiment is shared by everyone.

In reply to Curtis
Head in the sand individuals only sees what they want.
Pee-n-See got caught stealing and said "you caught me, lets share governance."

No, how about we chop your hands off for stealing? Like they do in the middle and far East

In reply to Curtis

Well the recount proved without a shadow of a doubt that Mingo's numbers were cooked in favor of the PNC

No 1 vote, or 2 votes mistake, but 50s, 100s

Those are facts without the need for speculation

If that is not rigging, well nothing will prove it to those folks

Definitely rigged!

Only this party below said it wasn't rigged:

APNU+AFC+GECOM

In reply to Curtis

It depends on which party (or group of parties) is eventually declared as the winner(s).

Are there any impartial people in Guyana?

In reply to B16JP587S

Bhai, they flipped the script. After saying they won a credible elections, now that the recount is showing a PPP win, they are claiming there was rigging, and it was done by the PPP.

These guys have a list at the recount process, ever now and then they will stand up and say, that is a PPP fraud, that voter has migrated! Now no other party has such a list and is able to generate such a list because it comes from the organs of the government. In addition, they are not providing proof of the migration and absence of said persons, but they are getting these "observations" written in a report.

At the end of the day, they will bring up all of these reports and say the elections were no good, give we a year to prepare another and repeat the cycle.

In reply to steveo

Why is Mudland so bad at holding elections? 50+ years after independence you would think it would get it right by now.

In reply to Priapus

Its not the elections bro, it is the division among the people, it is hatred among the parties and men with axes to grind and most of all its the OIL.


These things have fomented in Guyana since independence and living strong today.

In reply to steveo

What is the genesis for the racial division in GY? TnT has a population that consists of persons with Indian and African heritage and there isn't this division among the races.

In reply to steveo

It is just a bunch of seriously stupid people

In reply to Norm

Well its the bottom of the barrel left here yuh know. I went to one of the top high schools in Guyana and most of the my batch mates are in the US and Canada. Its us the losers that are back here.

What can you expect when allyuh abandon we Normy??

In reply to Priapus

That is a long story friend, it will take days and days to talk that story. Its been documented in scratches here in the backroom from time to time. I leave that for more senior Guyanese to expound upon.

In reply to Priapus

T&T also suffers from race issues, but national identity is much stronger than in Guyana. Suriname too experiences race issues, but again, their national identity helps them to overcome their racial divide much better than Guyana.

A couple of very divisive politicians set Guyana on this road about 60 years ago, and we cannot put them behind us - even though we know their politics was divisive.

Most Guyanese are Black or Indian first. Many attach zero importance to being Guyanese and even deny their Guyanese background. To this day, most Guyanese, even the most educated, embrace the crass ignorance of divisive racist politics, as our elections always show.

In reply to Steve I

Sorry, man. I think you and I could live peacefully and progressively, but the rest would cling to their Burnham or Jagan to death, and make their kids swear on the pain of death to do the same, and so on.

I have almost given hope in the ability of Guyana to set themselves back on the right course. Even if we get rid of this current lot of barefaced choke and robbers, we are guaranteed to have yet another set of thieves robbing the nation in the name of their race, Volda style.

In reply to Norm

Norm that's a heavy stereotype to walk around with, surely there must be something else- lacking...? Some of the arguments and debates on social media and everywhere else is beyond comprehension when the truth is staring you in the face. I mean how hard is it to show that you are the winner when you have the documentation? The crazy thing now is that the ruling party propaganda is trying to create the impression that the opposition don't want the recount

In reply to jacksparrow

you condemn Norm....Blasphemous!

The wrath will come down upon you tenfold

In reply to jacksparrow

Heavy stereotype? If Guyanese were united, no government would ever dare do the crap to them such as they have been subjected by all their governments, but especially the most recent ones.

Regardless of which party forms the next government, Guyanese are guaranteed to suffer barefaced thievery, the population is guaranteed to condone this by looking for "connections" to government employees to practice corruption. That is the accepted, and internally recommended, way of life there.

Hence, a seriously stupid set of people.

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

He need to do a jag to clear his name

In reply to steveo

I need to do a thousand pujas in succession for Guyanese of all backgrounds!

In reply to Norm

You are that clear skin guy from berBice...doors see you coming and just open.

Pujas wont be blessed from you....u not Black skin ...Kala Patar

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

Life, tragedies, sicknesses and gods don't care about the color of our skins. Only extremely stupid humans attach any importance whatsoever to that, no matter how smart they think they are.

If Black skin guaranteed anything, including puja blessings, Black skin people would have nothing whatsoever to worry about - especially not what clear skin guys were up to.

Nevertheless, you make a good point - about one of the primary causes of the seriously stupid set of people and division I was referring to. Keep on dancing around this topic and you will demonstrate very amply that Guyana is indeed cursed with very stupid people who think they are smart.

In reply to Norm

Masa set it up like that and you should count your inherited blessings.

I created mine due to exclusionary necessity

Link Text

U.S remains prepared to impose sanctions including visa revocation, financial restrictions

all evidence show that apnu rigged the election. all foreigner and observer know that apnu rigged the election.

Yes!

Every one will answer this Poll as Yes, it seems. Both parties now claim rigging.

In reply to Norm

A Guyanese friend exhibits this same behaviour . No matter how much i tried to explain that "getting yours" via nefarious means is corruption she just accepts it as a normal course of business. Sort of like a way of life for Guyanese. And what is worrisome to me is that she holds an important position in the health sector.

In reply to Priapus

Dude a Guyanese immigrant in NY made the 6 o’ clock news for attempting to bribe a cop after a traffic infraction. The poor fella was crestfallen when he was hauled out of his car, charged and handcuffed.
It is standard procedure to do such there, the joke is the cops there asks, do you want to make right? Or shall I write?

In reply to Runs

A right or a left?

Leff me something or I write you a ticket

In reply to Priapus

A racially diverse country like TnT do have race issues (not not as prevalent as in my grandparents young days) but we have developed a strong sense of nationalism and we take pride (whether it is knowingly or unconsciously) in being ah Trini. Everything about Trini culture from our food to our music to Carnival we symbolize as Trini tingz.Trini tingz we all accept as ous, as Trini and love to boast to the world. These Trini tings has helped in the fight to unite us as Trini people. But I wouldn't go as far as to say TnT don't have race issues but I will say its not prevalent as Guyana and it is smothered by the Trini tings that we all love as to "being ah Trini". In our politics there is still support for political parties driven by race but even that is being diminished as the country has moved away from that philosophy. TnT a racially diverse country like Brazil who has racial issues but also has strong sentiment of nationalism can stand out positively in the world. Guyana is missing that strong sense of country, strong feeling of national identity among the people who are living in Guyana (not expats who develop patriotism when living abroad). Something has to give in this situation for Guyana. A mechanism or all Guyanese to identify together.

And important to point out TnT has a sizable fraction of dougla people. Meaning a mixture of people from the two majority ethnic backgrounds (Africans and Indians). Guyana who has Africans and Indians still until now do not have a sizable fraction of mixed people. Some people will point to this as a result of Guyana not being able to truly unite over the years although its not really strong support for a serious argument.

Every country will have challenges based on their societal make up. Many label America great despite knowing they still struggle with race issues. In India they struggle with class issues. In some countries you not allowed to live or go sit and eat in certain towns if you are from a family poor class or if you are just poor. Both issues that are non-issues in Guyana and TnT. In some countries their is very serious desire by their people to have lighter brown skin color so many bleach their skin to be accepted. This happens in Africa and right here in some Caribbean nations. For some.countries its different religions. So Guyana is not alone with this challenge but how your country deal with it is what will be assessed in the end

In reply to TriniStar
Why is it that those of Indian ethnic background seldom play football at the national level in TnT?

In reply to Benjie

From the root level, primary school to secondary school indo Trini males dont show much interest in playing football so the results eventually show on the national team. Very different from Cricket which you see all youths interested.

I wish it was not the case because I personally feel we could be discovering more talent from an untapped human resource. Even its just a few extra talented players

Funny enough you will see Trinis from all different background including indian Trinis supporting the national football team at the national stadium for an important clash. This goes back to what I was saying earlier about "being ah Trini"

In reply to Benjie

Is it the same for track and field?

In reply to TriniStar

Watch man in here now trying to guess if you black or indian Trini

But serious ting tho for me there is just more genuine interaction among events and holidays between Trinis of different races than in Guyana.

But ah believe if there is more open conversation and more drive for nationalism in the media and in schools and by popular Guyanese then Guyana will overcome this problem.

In reply to TriniStar

But why dont they show interest in football at primary school level ? All boys like to kick a football? I am baffled.

Here's another question: A typical panorama steel band is comprised of what percentage of Indian Trinis?

Also, why are there so few Indian calypsonians ?

In reply to TriniStar

25 % of TT's population is mixed. Of that number, at least 11% is puredougla( that is, the progeny of a east indian descended person and an african descended perso. What is overlooked are those who have multiple ethnicities in their blood line. One friend of mines who plays keyboards with a popular soca artist has very dark skin. But his grandfather is snow white from scotland. Some places, like arima, persons are mixed with both madeiran, venezuelan and carib. And the incoming of venesuelans is probably going to result in another demographic bomb in the nect 8-12 months

In reply to Benjie

Why do you assume all boys love to play football? In India you think them boys love play football more than Cricket? Hmmm dont assume. I myself didnt play much football as a youth

Today in 2020 it depends which steelband you observing. Couva steelband racial make up is different from the popular Port of Spain steelband make ups. In San Fernando I noticed in recent years Skiffle Bunch has a mixed group of players. Same with Fonclaire. I will say the trend seem to be saying depends on the location of the band the pannists are coming most from that area.

In reply to Benjie

calypso? Very few but for Soca which is way more popular I see a lot of soca loving indos in fete and on the road. Also in the music industry for example the most popular Soca DJ around the world, DJ Private Ryan? How about Producer Travis World, Kes is not black, on the radio DJs Smooth, DJ Ana. I can go on and on

In reply to Drapsey

Indeed. I am genuinely baffled. Having said that, 1.5 billion people live in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Yet none of these countries ever played in a football world cup final nor are they known to produce good track n field athletes.

In reply to problemjay

Let dem try and guess what I am. All dey need to know I am "Trini to d bone" like Rudder say

In reply to Benjie

I really don't try to figure out why certain sports don't appeal to some cultures or ethnic group of people. Up to now there is no serious interest by black people in the sport of golf

As ah Trini i want to see every youth in TnT interested in playing football to hopefully discover more talent but the reality is I dont see it happening soon

In reply to TriniStar

Hey, thanks for offering an explanation. I could never understand why both Trinidad and Guyana with approx 50% Indian populations hardly had any Indians if any on their football teams. No one has been able to IMO properly explain this anomaly.

In reply to TriniStar

Maybe you should try to figure out.

In reply to problemjay

and Kes is one of the biggest Soca stars in the world today. Probably only Machel bigger than him right now He is not ah black man. But he is Trini so every Trini root for him

Take this thread back to Guyana, it has side stepped into ah Trini culture topic

Benjie ah want you to go look up one of Trinidad's most iconic steelpan arrangers by the name of Jit Samaroo. Research his legacy and contribution to the steelpan culture and then come back to me about what is his race. Since you asking about indians in steelband

In reply to Jumpstart

Venezuelans are the highest number of immigrants in TnT today. The govt has released an official statistic of an estimated 48,000 last year. So naturally you will see more mixed Trinis with Venezuelan background. But remember Venezuelans themselves are racially diverse. There is the native indian Venes, mestizo Venes, afro Venes, white Venes. So the race mix up will be ah real mix up

In reply to TriniStar

The amount of personswho registered was 17000. The 48,000 was the UN figure which was derived anecdotally, there are probably about 18 or 19 thousand venezuelans in the country.

Remember too, the racial kind of nationalism that afflicts GT never really took root here. I remember, when things look really iffy in the 2000/2001 peeriod, a Guyanese UWI lecturer named Ralph Premdass told the BBC that he expected racial conflict in the country.....man wss he disappointed when ut didn't hspoen. Which is why i get really mad when academics lump us together based purely on demographics. Two different countries with totally different histories

Great analogy there Trinis.

Even with food choices, Guyanese are not as unified as Trinis. Trini cuisine is enjoyed and made by most. GT is getting there slowly.

In reply to Jumpstart

The UN tally includes Venes who have been living here in TnT for years long before the registration process. Some may have already been legal didn't need to register last year and some may have registered during last year process. What about those who did not register but their stats are still documented from when they came through customs. I also challenge that 17,000 registration tally, I am leaning to a lot more than that number.

In reply to Runs

Man forgot he was no longer in GY. I guess that is what my GY friend meant when she said that corruption is a way of life for most people in GY.

Would it be safe to say that cricket is the only thing that unites Guyanese?

Should the Indian cricket team play the Trinidad national cricket team in Trinidad, would Trinidad Indians back Trinidad, or India?

Should the Ghanaian soccer team play the Trinidad national soccer team in Trinidad, would Trinidad Africans back Trinidad or Ghana?

Same scenario, replace Trinidad/Trinis with Guyana/Guyanese.

In reply to anansi

India has played West Indies many times at the Oval in Port Of Spain when Windies featured Indo-Trini players. You not putting forth anything unique or different with that question

The comparison being made about TnT and Guyana goes beyond cricket, football or any sport. Instead more about the unity among the peoples in both societies

In reply to Priapus

Quite possibly, I grew up in diverse GT did not have the racial issues, it is in the ethnically segregated villages where the issues remain to this day. To be honest the politicians on both sides exploit the people, sort of like in Animal Farm and elections time is when it is at it’s ugliest. Everything there is based on political connections and which “big one” you know sadly.

Here is a true story, once while on vacation there me and my friend decided to take a drive up the countryside, about half hour into our trip he was stopped by a Policeman, I asked him what is the issue as his truck seemed fine and he was observing the speed limit, he said to stay quiet and reached into his passenger compartment for an envelope, as the cop approached his window he exchanged pleasantries and slipped him the envelope in what seemed to me as a well rehearsed handshake. I was about to jump out the truck and confront the officer, he said to me let’s go dude and drove off, I said to him, bro you just got shookdown what the fcuk is the matter with you, you did no wrong. He responded you want us to go on our trip or do you prefer to spend it in the lockups? This is Guyana my friend that is how things work, he can hold us on anything he feels like.

I looked at him and shook my head, feeling by enabling that crap he was also part of the problem, that envelope was a part of his planning for our trip, I never asked him how much it was.

Aye Bejie! Whey yuh gone boy, ah loaded with the answers YOU could not find.

Yuh want to ask about indian-Trinis and steelpan, I already sent you to do some homework on Jit in a previous comment. Here is one of the young well know pannists currently in Trinidad. What is his ethnic background? Link Text

Wait ah aint done yet! you was quick to mention indians and calypso and you may as well just say soca because soca is what is popular among the young and old today. So I already mentioned a slew of info-Trini players in the soca industry in a previous comment. WHO IS THIS YOUNG WOMAN? She is the most popular female DJ Soca DJ in the Caribbean and playing in all the big soca events in Canada and the UK. What is her ethnic background? Link Text

Now go research DJ Private Ryan and Travis World ethnic backgrounds, very important Indo-Trini players in Soca music today.

Ah rhel loaded with the answers you pretending to seek

In reply to anansi

Nah man that too simple of analogy. Let me mash your simple corn. India came to Trinidad with Tendulkar in 97 to play against a West Indies team that had no indo Trini players for that match. Brian Lara was playing against India in his country Trinidad. Take a guess which team the entire and every Trini was supporting. Let me see if you really know what you talking about

In reply to problemjay

That reminds of an interview Basdeo Panday did with an Indian (India) journalist shortly after becoming PM. The interview still up on youtube today. The journalist ask him Lara or Tendulkar? (thinking he can tie up Panday because Bas is an indo) Panday said Brian Lara by a mile

I know about Private Ryan but first time I heard about her. nice to see women Djs holding it down

In other news ...Guyana election poll!!

In reply to TriniStar

“Beyond the boundary”

Fitting.

Got it.

In reply to problemjay

Don’t know the answer to Trinidad.
Hence the question.

How about Guyana?

Prime Minister of Trinidad and Tobago, Keith Rowley, has told his country’s Parliament that Trinidad decided not to send back its Elections Chief to observe the national vote recount because of accusations levelled against CARICOM when a high-level team was first invited to Guyana.

Speaking at the 25th Sitting of the House of Representatives, 5th Session of the 11th Parliament of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago on May 08, Rowley made Trinidad’s position clear – that it will not get involved in the current recount process.

“I simply want to say that none of us in this Government is invested in any way in Guyana except that we want the best for the people of Guyana and we want to see them solve their problems as quickly as possible so that the results of an election could be concluded and Guyana could continue to maintain its high standing in CARICOM,” Dr Rowley said.

When asked about why Trinidad’s Chief Election Officer Fern Narcis-Scope was not part of the high-level CARICOM team in Guyana for the recount, Dr Rowley pointed to Guyana’s Court of Appeal ruling on April 5, after it found that a CARICOM supervision of the recount would be illegal.

In reply to problemjay

I think that you are misunderstanding me. The original question was about football. Trinistar provided an explanation. I dont understand why if 50% of the population is Indian, why is it that for decades in both Trinidad and Guyana that Indians seldom play football for the national team.

And then I asked why were there so few Indian calypsonians. Also asked about proportion of Indians who play at Panorama. These are genuine questions regarding what appears to be an anomaly. You mentioned a few exceptions in respect of soca and pan but I think that you might be misunderstanding my questions.

Look, if there is indeed proportional representation then, fine. No offence meant at all to Indians, Trinis or Africans. OK? There is no underlying racist basis for the questions.
Hope that you now understand. BTW I think that Trinistar did a decent job in answering the questions. I still find the football situation quite odd.

In reply to Runs

As far as you know does the hierarchy of the Police Force take any concrete measures to stamp out this sort of behaviour by the traffic cops? I'd like to believe that complaints have reached the desk of the Police Commissioner.

In reply to Benjie

I did not give you exceptions, I gave you examples. I can give a lot more examples but why waste my time if you already see them as exceptions. You have to know what you are talking about before putting forth a challenge.

and for the football is very simple even a blind man can see. like TriniStar said there is not much interest at the root youth level so how can you even ask why there is none at the national team? common sense man.

In reply to Benjie

Dude, 50% of the country not indian, 37% is, 36% is black and a quarter of the country is mixed.

[b]In reply to Jumpstart

guyana is 44% percent indians and 30% percent blacks.


from google

What is the largest ethnic group in Guyana?


The Indo-Guyanese, or East Indians, are the largest ethnic group at 44% of the population, and they are descendants of indentured laborers from India. The second largest group is the Afro-Guyanese (30%), descendants of African slaves.
[/b]

In reply to Jeremy

T&T has a 23 % mixed race population and will only continue to get higher. Why does Guyana still after so many years does not have a good bit of mixed people? Is that a result of the lack of unity among Guyanese people?

Maybe Benjie can help you with that question
.

In reply to Priapus

It does, but nowhere nearly as completely as it should. The younger generations have started to move away from racial division, but they haven't reached critical mass yet. The proportion of mixed races has been increasing steadily, but it currently amounts to about 15 to percent of the population only.

Unfortunately, the established political parties still condone racism strongly in practice, and even the mixed population generally becomes racially polarized during elections.

Is there hope for Guyana to escape this curse? I think there is, because the established political parties are very poor at politics. It won't take much for a determined new political group with its head screwed on correctly to sway the young minds in the right direction.

There are a few good heads that post right here, that have what it takes, in my opinion.

In reply to Priapus

I actually come from a family of cops, guys who had high integrity and made it up to high levels in the force. It has always been a problem, of course such officers if found will be disciplined but the issue is a well known secret with tales of senior members often involved.
The problem is it not only involves cop it is found in other agencies also, to get prompt service a kickback is expected, of course no one in authority will admit but ask any Guyanese about it. Guess it is their version of the, “ Indian Raj”.
If you ever visit you will notice even at the airport you wil hear the popular, “ left somethin nuh, how yuh treatin me suh”.

In reply to Jeremy

A significant proportion migrated to Guyana from other Caribbean countries. A small number also came to Guyana as indentured workers from Africa, after slavery ended.

In reply to problemjay

Guyana now has a large group of mixed and Amerindian people, probably about 20% of the population latest figures.

Guyanese have to wise up and hold politicians to promises kept, vote on issues, elect can do visionaries and demand lean, clean governance with accountability.

In reply to Runs

Looks like it was my "lucky" day when I arrived at Ogle a few years ago.

Politicians have pull the wool over the eyes of people for centuries.

Why people are locked into their subpar expectations of people they vote in, is baffling.

Education is likely the best remedy, the better educated the population the least likely for continued prolonged abuse and corruption.

Barbados is a good model for Caribbean people to follow, politically.

Link Text

Wow.

In reply to anansi

Yuh think Jeremy (or Darkness) wrote that piece?

In reply to Curtis

Barbados has never had to deal with the threat/fear of Ethnocracy, that sick bastard evil child of Democracy.

In reply to Drapsey

That man know his history.

You can't fight fire by sticking another bale of dry grass in it.

Two cultures find themselves and their descendants, across the oceans from their original lands of birth, and are tasked with cohabiting amidst the fallout from working class exploitation by colonials.

Without visionary unifying leadership, these societies are screwed.

In reply to anansi

The internet is a sewer.

In reply to anansi

That is probably a rebuttal of the "viewpoint" of some afro-Guyanese. They seem to think that Guyana was originally theirs and out of the goodness of their heart they allowed the indians to migrate there and share their resources.

In return the nasty indians oppose them by striving for democratic governments.

In reply to steveo

Ethnocratic

In reply to anansi

It took the indian vote to put the PNC in govt 2015, so I dont know what you are talking about