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what he is doing now is greater than what anybody else has done in basketball.

1. He is 35 years old.
2. His team only has one other legitimate all star. All the other players were mediocre or written off.
3. To lift a team play and unite them in these times is a credit to his ability to inspire.
4. His knowledge of the game is far superior to any present player and probably any player to have played the game.
5. His ability to make in series adjustments is unrivalled.
6. His ability to make in game adjustments is unrivalled.
7. His ability to stay focus on the task is second to none.

In reply to methodic

Agree

In reply to methodic

how many titles??

In reply to hotarobin

Bunch of nonsense pulled from thin air to seem like an argument is being made.

What series has Lebron been unmatched in and made adjustments?

Only if you mean coming into a series disinterested due to the significant mismatches he has and getting beat then actually playing the next few games....Focus? really? That's why he kept losing game ones?

The only adjustment he ever makes is letting others take the last shot so he does not fail....and baiting Draymond into that tech, in which someone also took over the game to win him a Championship.

In reply to Ayenmol

Mr PoliceTrainedtoSpreadSixYrOldsonPavement. Your opinion is akin to a buzzing fly. Useless but annoying.

I'm sure LeBron and all the experts lay awake at night worrying that a proven idiot doesn't see his greatness.

In reply to Ayenmol

The chasm between your ears is so very loud, and likes drawing attention to itself.

In reply to hotarobin

3 titles.

Lots of GREAT players have never won a single title. Some so so players have won multiple titles. Number of titles is AN indicator but not the end all and be all.

In reply to methodic

Oh really? LOL

MJ>Lebron>Kobe

In reply to methodic

Jordan is the greatest. Nuff said. James is one of the greatest though.

But he's soft as hell with this shyte.

C'mon man!!! That was weak of him.

In reply to Cheeks

You gotta admit though, certain things weigh on Lebron's mind. Just look at his reacting to the MVP voting. He really couldn't let that go? I mean, seriously.

In reply to JahJah

Fair enough.

I would've gone with hey...the voters' decision is final..it is what it is..and let it go. Like everybody else, the guy is a flawed human being. I think he feels that he's not getting enough respect. Most of the greats are like that though...egotistical, sometimes even petty..I think it comes from a sense of 'entitlement' because of the way they commit to their craft. I also think the Lakers' have been pushing the narrative that he deserves it..so it was a bit of disappointment.

I don't agree with his response either...but c'est la vie. My wife doesn't agree with half the things I say and do.

Lebron shift them into a zone

boy! Lakers can't get nothing from Kuzman. Coming back from 20 you need everybody in the rotation to contribute

Murray in dey skunt, Denver wins game 3

In reply to methodic

Unibrow is actually the key to the Lakers success. Without him, they wouldn't be where they are now.

In reply to DukeStreet

Lol that sounds like a fact

what is the great man up to tonight?

In reply to Cheeks

this is what initially posted....


"greater than anybody else" is....the greatest

Michael Jordan # 1

Daylight # 2

Everyone else after that

Lebron not even better than Kobe

If not for injury, may not even be better than KD

Great player tho

some of those teams Lebron took to his consecutive 8 finals no other player could have taken those teams to a final. The series he came from 3-1 down against Golden State, no other player could have done that with that team. Nobody has played at the level he played at age 35. All that while he was a pass option first player. In the totality of the game, definitely better than Kobe.

In reply to methodic

One Kyrie Irving played in that win over Golden State and was ace.

One could say Kobe won without Shaq, but Lebron didn't win without Kyrie...or Wade

the King in the 4th quarter coming up

In reply to methodic

all of your points are highly subjective that's why I asked about the titles...

In reply to methodic

Who dat???

This done. Jokic on the brink of fouling out and has to sit down. Millsap too.

the King took over the 4th quarter. He took Murray one on one defensively six times and he didn't score once.

In reply to methodic

Dude! Did you see that at 105-102 when Murray went to the hoop?

That was a clear foul by Lebron. Did he even get a piece of the ball?

WOW!!!

In reply to JahJah

you mean a team that had Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Trevor Ariza, Derek Fisher and Lamar Odom.

In reply to methodic

Kobe used those guys to duss out Garnet, Allen and Pierce.

Please tell me which one of those that you mentioned is a Kyrie or a Wade.

In reply to JahJah

Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol at that time was a twin tower that was unstoppable.

In reply to methodic

lol

Oh, and I forgot Playoff Rondo (in his prime) in that Celtic team that Bryant took down.

Cmon man.

Anyway, what happened to Murray on that possession I mentioned was obscene.

In reply to JahJah

it was a foul but earlier in the game Lebron was fouled and there was no call. Overall I think it was a well officiated game.

In reply to methodic

Dude. AD getting calls for injuring himself. And let's not talk about earlier in the game when plenty bad calls went against Denver.

But the way they allowed big ass 6'9" Lebron to just molest Murray like that without calling a foul.

WOW. lol

I'm now remembering the days when Lebron used to see big men like Roy Hibbert (when he had use) in the paint and turn back.

Lissen me, Jordan all day...everyday!

LOL

that's funny

Funny? It is the reason I roll my eyes when people use longevity of current players as a battering ram against the old generation.

They are treated as babies which contribute to their longevity and aid their ability to score at will and surpass scoring milestones that former players had to work harder for and deal with a battering.

Why i call attention to this guy's size. If players were allowed to beat him up he would not have lasted this long to move from team to team insearch of star teammates to win championships.

That shot by Jamal will haunt James for the rest of his life.

In reply to Ayenmol

I thought you stop watching?

In reply to methodic

when i turned on the game there was 3 minutes left....i wanted to check the score.

I do not watch the games. But i keep and eye on the score....if they are allowed to play without the obvious attempts to steal games i may watch more, when the obvious is happening i move on.

This is the reason i stopped watching the NBA years ago.

They were forever trying to replicate the Jordan heydays than let the teams play and let the best win.

Basketball is boring. predictable and free of drama.

last night it was time to put them away and the king obliged.

In reply to Ayenmol

More dishonest jackassery.

In reply to methodic

LeBron is true greatness, tuh be playing at dis level at dis age. His 10 final.

Ah lot of LeBron hate on dis thread. Jordan used tuh get nuff calls too.

So too did Kobe.


Allyuh better appreciate LeBron's greatness. He's a basketball genius.

In reply to Ayenmol

you are exciting(contentious), unpredictable and full of drama.

In reply to Ayenmol

Remember there was a scandal years ago where the referees were directed by the NBA who should win the games??

The Lakers and Celtics are the biggest cash drawers and its the NBA's interest that they always reach the finals.

Its a little above WWE now.

Micheal Jordan was good and bad for the game. He perhaps the best NBA player, handsome, charismatic and clean. Although he was no superman but the league made him so by propping him up (getting all the calls) so he can continue to prop them up.

After his departure, the NBA kept that formula and every generation seeks out their "hero" player to promote the league. Kobe Bryant is one of the major beneficiaries of the need for that "hero" player. Checking the stats and you will see a major discrepancy between his actual performance and the myth the NBA hyped him to be. There is now Lebron and others.

I dont watch that shite anymore, thats for kids.

In reply to steveo

Steveo...great points....but did Jordan get foul calls like today's generation?

Jordan was getting put on his butt for those calls you claim he was being gifted.

The stuff that Lebron is going to the line for, Jordan would not even feel.

While Lebron is allowed to constantly deep his shoulders into defenders, initiate contact then sent to the line to boot.

Also, the NBA did not create the allure of Jordan....Nike did.

The NBA saw the benefit of that and has since chosen from go who to promote...
Like they already started doing with Zion.

Where were the calls for Jordan when the Pistons were crushing him with physical blows?

How muuch did the NBA protect him when NY were allowed to beat him like a drum?

Chicago was not the draw the Garden was or the Forum..o there were other teams at the time that the NBA was more fond of and never gave the Bulls favors over


Doh look at one issue while ignoring other more significant ones.

Notice how Lebron is getting all the credit here....when Davis has been the overwhelming star for the Lakers run.

When has anyone been the key to the Bull's winning but Jordan?

In reply to Ayenmol

Actually I did not read the entire thread and have not watched the NBA for over a decade.

Dont get caught up in this hero myth, teams win games, not superhero players. Jordan has said this several times.

In reply to steveo

True....but we all know who was leader and who delivered to get to and win for the Bulls...even though he rightly credited his teammates.

While Lrbron spent his entire Career being vocal leader then putting pressure on his teammates to deliver in the clutch.....then taking credit after.

Why did Kyrie leave?

Why does so many great players shy away from him?

Why did Bosh...Love etc never live up to their potential under him?

I have commented here how people elevate this guy above what is deserved....

The people claiming Basketballl is a team sport are doing it now, because they see Davis is the key....they spent their whole lives telling you how Lebron carried lowly teams to greatness....when he has never won without his teammates taking over games....go look at every Finals Lebron has won and see who played the greatest role in the crucial times.

I saw Davis hit shot after shot to keep the Nuggets at bay in the last two games...not to mention the game winner in game two.

Davis is carrying that team....not Lebron.

In reply to Ayenmol

More nonsense. Whole ton of words to talk a bunch o crap as usual. Your knowledge of the actual game is actually embarrassingly limited for someone who has so many words to type about it.

LET'S GO HEAT!
Le Bum and the Fakers are going down.
Heat in 6.

In reply to embsallie

Does Igoudala have something left in the tank?

Can Herro be the hero?

Can Adebayo limit Davis on defense while being a factor on offense?

We know Lebaby ain't guarding Butler.

LeBron is taking his FIFTH Coach to the finals

LeBron is taking his THIRD franchise to the finals.

LeBron elevates all his teammates, no matter what you say.

Dey used tuh say dat LeBron had it easy tuh get tuh de finals, until he gets tuh de West.

Well he did it in de West too.

TriniD still believes dat MJ is de goat, but LeBron is phorquene incredible, and is still writing his story. At age 35 tuh be dis great? Amazing.

In reply to Trinidave

Man all that stuff means nothing....on one hand you claiming team on the other hand you claiming Lebron deserves the credit.

The man have the best team...the most talented.

Which team have they beaten that they were not better than?

You just throwing whatever up against the wall and claiming it beautifies the Building.

Anyway...i always speak the truth about this guy....and you all always find ways to detract from the truth.

You all were silent all year till the Clippers were gone.

That says it all.

When the runway is clear alyou have mout....just like he.

Lebron fans are like Trump fans.

No matter the number of obvious facts that point to his unworthiness to seat atop the Mountain, they claim look at the numbers, he is the best ever.
While sensible people just shake their head.

In reply to Ayenmol

TriniD posted facts, you posted feelings.

In reply to Ayenmol

You are a liar....and you lie over and over and over again.
You defeat your own argument. How long have you been talking shit about Lebron..and multiple people here have been pointing out your crap? what's the rubbish about people waiting for Clippers to be gone?

You and DJT gotta be related.

In reply to Trinidave

Water is wet...that's a fact....So?

Just because you post random facts doh mean a thing.

The guy is a coward who runs to teams that are built to defeat ither teams on paper first.

He is like Trump, not caring what he has to do to win and be viewed in the company of the greats, regardless how it destroys the Nation.

The man, after getting Davis was pushing for both Kawhi and George to join him in LA.


To beat who? The man is a scared guy who has never faced a comparable team straight up and be the reason they win.

The only time they beat a good team was when Allen went crazy and beat the Spurs....which the Spurs were so offended at they came back the next year and swept.

SWEPT! And he ran....the man is scared of competition.

In reply to Ayenmol

Where do you rank Lebron?

In reply to Ayenmol

YES!

ABSOLUTELY!

Most Definitely!

He 'Fraid, Very'Fraid

Heat in 6.

LET'S GO HEAT!

In reply to steveo

For Lebron's size and ability....high....

The man is a taller more athletic Barkley....and they weigh the same....

Barkley Lebron

Playing at a time when there is no defense....The size of players are greatly reduced.....the blueprint to achieve greatness is written.....the training is peak....the nutrition is peak....the medicine is peak and the tech is peak.

The knowledge and possibilities of what the Human body can do on the basketball court is laid and copied etc....

And he still can't reach those levels. The man game is boring outside of blocking smaller guys shots....and hitting jumpers.

The guy is not revolutionary in anything outside of his size advantage coupled with his ability to use it on smaller players.

Mentally he is weak....which is why he panicked and ran to Miami to win with others who had already achieved more than him.

Not a blue blood.

But top player overall.

Watch Last Dance....What Jordan was doing was setting the trend....On and off the Court... training...business...tv etc.

I saw Murray do the legendary present the ball to dunk then take it under and around the basket....How many times you tink he and others practice that? Jordan did it out of necessity.

What is Lebron's signature move?

Tell me what Lebron is just better at....1 thing that he is better than everyone else at.

In reply to embsallie



Man i aint even thinking about it....I seeing Davis dropping clutch three after clutch three....The Heat needs a few bigs to throw at Howard and the other goons while a capable guy can keep up with Davis....

If they get it done the Lebaby sycophants will go silent till they are safe to make the Playoffs next year.

Lebron can play all five positions at above average.

He is the Lakers de-facto point guard. Playing Centre may be his only weakness. In a game you can ask him to guard anyone, and he can score against anyone.

He is the most versatile player on a basketball court. MJ was the greatest shooting guard, but MJ can't do all the things that Lebron can do, but Lebron can do all the things that MJ did.

I say Lebron is the G.O.A.T. because of his versatility.

In reply to BenGman

Yeah...No...How many dunk contest did Lebron win?

The objective in basketball is to put the ball in the basket....and defend against putting the ball in the basket....Which one is Lebron better at than MJ?

The objective of basketball is not to play every position.

Btw... Why did'nt Lebron do the dunk contest?

Oh yeah, another thing he knew he could not live up to Michael in so he stayed away from.

Àll those who like to thump accumulated numbers vonsider this....

MJ averaged 30 ppg for his career in an era when guys could hand check...crowd you...knock you on your butt and three point play was an uncommon occurrence.

Lebron averages 27 ppg...in a day when you cant handcheck...cant even brush against the player when he goes to the basket and everyone make three point plays constantly plus the three is a focal point....he still can't touch MJ.

Put Jordan in this environment...his career would last longer....he would probably score 10 more points per game.

Put Lebron in that environment and he would be on his but constantly....would not develop his three and cant shoot three throws. So he would be put on the line even more.

Plus he is not an innovative offensive player....so without the vault of offensive plays he has access to, he would not have the repertoire available to copy.

Whereas Jordan who was an innovator on offense would have more to build from and no doubt would excell beyond that with his ability ....

Most of lebrons free throws are and 1's in the old days they fouled you so hard, you had to be really athletic to get the and 1...

Lebron ain't that type of plàyer....they would force him to score at the line and his percentage would be even lower....thus he would be a lesser scorer....if he ever developed into that due to the rules then.

In reply to BenGman

Hold on. Lebron can play defense like MJ...or even half that level?

Yu serious?

In reply to Ayenmol

This is mindbogglingly stupid.

Just that bit?? I'd wager that 90% of the crap he posts here is stupid. But I know what you mean...the stupidity of that self contradicting piece of swill he wrote there is indeed mind boggling...well maybe not so much when you consider who its coming from. Gotta make allowance for that.

If that whole spreading out of a six year old on the pavement being part of police training 'defence' didn't convince you that this guy is not playing with a full deck..then I don't know what will.

I wonder if he ever touched a ball in his life???

The idiot talking about we're in peak this and peak that...WTH? How do we know we're in the 'peak' ...was Magic in a 'peak'. How do we know we're in the peak? Does it mean its only down from hereon. No more improvements to be made? Isn't continuous improvement what its all about? What a collossal jackass.

In reply to methodic

The ability to take side with China over Houston General Manager Daryl Morey

regarding the HonG Kong issue; for the almighty Dollar

NEVER FORGET

Perkins Got It Right

In reply to Trinidave

Mice one. Very mice.

In reply to Trinidave

You make great points. I have a buddy who has a saying. Never get into an argument with a fool,because he will bring you to his level and thus beat you on experience. If someone is still debating the merits of LeBron James as one of the greatest hoopers of alltime,he or she is not even worthy of a response. Stop wasting your time trying to convince them. Just enjoy the fact that you were a witness to Jordan and now LeBron in the same lifetime. Sorta like Sachin,Aravinda and Lara....

In reply to JahJah

Yeah it was, but Jordan did similar when in 1996-97 NBA MVP vote, when he lost to Malone.

Hands down, Michael Jordan is the greatest NBA player. He won't be the greatest forever... but in 2020, even with another pending win for Bron Bron, he still can't dethrone the GOAT.... YET!!!

as per @methodic


I seriously doubt even Bron Bron fans rank Lebron over Jordan or Kobe in terms of focus. SECOND TO NONE??? Maybe active players, but for focus, Kobe and Jordan had an unmatched, intense focus! The called him the Black Mamba for a reason....

Watching Jordan adapt to the game, switch gears up or down according to the needs of the game was unrivaled.

Focus: Kobe>Jordan>others>Lebron
Adjustments: Magic>Bird>Jordan>others>Lebron

In reply to Trinidave

+100

In reply to Walco

Perkins taking percosets.

This man is the GOAT

Done talk. Graceful. Electric. MaJestic.

In reply to TriniD

What age did Jordan retire?

What age did Jordan come into the League?....this highlights the detachment from reality with you Lebaby fans.

Lebron is an old man in the league compared to Jordan.

Yet you speak like he has had less time than Jordan to reach the same level.

At age 30 Jordan had already three peated....never having to prostitute himself to do so.

Retired for almost 2 years...came back and won three more by 35....

This man on his 4th team and fifth coach and innumerable star to get to a fourth....and has never won three straight.

Lesser players have won as much as him in less time, in his era, and on his watch....

Amazing indeed.

Lebaby manufactured his first super team at 26....8 years after coming into the League.

And 2 years after joining said team....or forming a team that was the best team ever put together on paper and definitely the most talented in the Conference and NBA, he won his first title.

No One thought the Bulls were the most talented team in the NBA when Jordan won at 27!

In reply to Ayenmol

Do you need to belittle a great player, for no reason, just to confirm that MJ is better?

In reply to JahJah

Lebron James is to Basketball what Trump is to honesty and decency.

You all scared to admit it because he is the only person that allows you to keep interest in a Sport you think Black folks must support.

The man scared to compete....he wants runways made so he can land.


From refusing to participate in the dunk contest, to super teams, to avoiding game deciding shots, he is scared to do anything that may hurt him in comparison to Michael....while trying to be equal to MJ


Why you think he complaining about mvp?

Did MJ win mvp every year?

Michael Jordan was responsible for putting the NBA on the map.

And he was the best and most valuable player every year till he went to the Wizards.

He never complained about mvp voting.

What I state is the truth....hard to read....but the truth. it ain't personal, you just have to look at the decisions this man makes to understand what he is about.

He is trotting threw his career carefully crafting a NARRATIVE of superiority while the details prove otherwise.

I doh care for the dude. Not a true competitor.

Just a seeker of fame.

In reply to JahJah

This debate reminds me of the best batsman arguments about Sobers, Viv and Lara. The one common denominator is always that were think the one we grew up idolizing is almost invariably the GOAT. But opinions are great things. Everybody has one. I just try to enjoy and appreciate greatness in all its manifestations.

In reply to Walco

You believe him when he said Jordan didn't enter conversations?

I call BS. Maybe it was his grandpa only because older heads I know who saw the best before Jordan's time were in absolute awe of him.

In reply to Walco

I wish it was as simple as batting...tou can't hide from the ball on cricket...

But to analogize cricket to these two men....imagine Lebron recruit all the great pace bowlers to his team as well as the top spinners....while going up against medium pace only then claiming he better than the batsman that hit 6 sixes against the top fast bowler in an over, while it took him three test to make 3 sixes against the run of medium pacers.

In reply to JahJah
If you are referring to Perkins, I think he said that when he talked to his father and grandfather about the GOAT Jordan did not enter their thoughts (conversation). Then when he talks to Stephen A and the other guy it's Jordan Jordan Jordan. His point being that old people (stated humorously) always choose the greats from the eras when they grew up. Perkins then said that MJ and Lebron are sitting at the same table. I agree.

In reply to Walco

Same way Trump and Obama are sitting at the same Table...

Who made Perkins the purveyor of greatness?

Oh, yeah, he shares your opinion.

In reply to Ayenmol
My reference to cricket was simply to make the point about the human tendency to ordain those we grew up idolizing as the GOAT. Nothing more.

But you will not never get me to pick between MJ and LeBron because I do not think it is fair to compare players who played in different eras. And what exactly are the metrics for determining the GOAT?

In reply to Ayenmol

The same question could be posed about you and everyone else who has posted on this thread.

Miami has the better all round team and I think they are going to make it a rough series. Lakers riding on Lebron, AD and Rondo. Kuzma starting to emerge.

In reply to Walco

Did someone quote me as an authority?

In reply to imusic


lol.....word.

Nothing to discuss..

In reply to Ayenmol

Hello no!!! And most likely you will never be quoted as an authority on this or any other subject ... ok that was a low blow but I couldn't resist dispatching that half-volley outside off stump

Michael Jordan is the GOAT and Lebron is not even close. Some of Michael Jordan accomplishments:

6× NBA champion
6× NBA Finals MVP
5× NBA Most Valuable Player
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team
10× NBA scoring champion
3× NBA steals leader

MJ never left to play with a super team so he could win a championship. When Lebron went to Miami he went to 4 finals and won only 2 he had Bosh and Wade. In today's no contact league MJ would average 40 points per game. Lebron is currently playing in his tenth NBA finals he only has three titles

In reply to NYCGURU

Truth!

In reply to NYCGURU

You chose to include in your name two things that speak to your vein outlook...NYC and guru.

So am not surprised such a pretentious person would side with another....

Now on to the point I highlighted.....We all share in that statement.....so am not sure of it's significance here.

Although am not sure it's value to you, since you are unable to differentiate between the two, the significance of what you are watching.

The thought that youth is wasted on the young and wealth on the rich comes to mind here.

Some people just don't understand true class.

In reply to Ayenmol

You realise that when Lebron decamped to LA the Lakers had not even made the playoffs in the better part of a decade?

Plus he had left a Cleveland team that had only recently won a championship, and had appeared in a final more recently than the Lakers had appeared in the playoff

In reply to jacksprat

Nor did it make the playoffs his first year...

He could not make it with players who since being traded have become Allstars.

Now, you think he did not have the plan to acquire Davis as part of the reason he left?

Why you think New Orleans played such hard ball?

Or do you not look beyond the obvious?

In reply to Ayenmol

Do you just spew garbage just to be an argumentative contrarian?

How many championships did Jordan win in his first 6 years in the NBA; and without Scottie Pippin by his side; or with the Washington Wizards?

Name me one player who has won an NBA championship all by himself?

As I am sure even you know, basketball is still a team sport!

Magic did not win a single championship without Kareem; Nor Bird without McHale,etc; nor did Kobe without Shaq, Gasol, et al.

Dr.J, as great as he was in his prime, still needed MVP Moses Malone to help him secure his only NBA title.

Isiah Thomas, when the Pistons used to own Jordan's Bulls in both the regular season & playoffs, had fellow all-stars, Dumars and Laimbeer, by his side.

THis is the last am going to say....

You all forget the circumstances under which Lebron left for Miami...
When King James was drafted in 2003, he had a tremendous amount of hype built around him.

Read

Read all about it.

Same regarding the Dunk Contest.

Read about it here.

This is the stuff that was being written about him at the time.

His goal from the start.

So take all these things together and you start to see the picture.

At 26 he was under pressure as he could not overcome his rivals and with the goal of overtaking Michael, his biological clock was ticking....so what does he do?

Yeah, he copped out and formed a superteam.

The argument was lost from that point. The man did not join good players...He joined Superstars...and still doing the same.

Just so he could make it easy to win Championships to accomplish his goal.

It was argued at the time...that \based on that move alone....by people who wanted to have the argument, that the guy sold out and had rewritten the rules....

But some has blocked that from memory.... Now they just want to frolic in the results and bury the lead.

In reply to jacksprat
What happened when Lebron went to the Heat he had two other all-stars in Wade and Bosh. They made four finals and only won two MJ played in six finals and won them all.

In reply to Rudeman

Your point?

Did Jordan only play in 6 seasons?

What happened to all the other seasons when he did not even make the playoff, or was bounced from them, usually courtesy of the Pistons or the Celtics?

Bill Russell played in -AND WON-something like 11 championships in 13 seasons.

Why do we think we have to denigrate one player in order to celebrate another?


Why do you think that to acknowledge and celebrate Lebron's greatness is necessarily to diminish Jordan's?

As great as Kareem was - winning championships from high school to college to the NBA - he still needed Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, et al.

I repeat: No player in the NBA's history - not even the great Michael Jordan - who entered the league on the wave of unparalleled Nike-generated hype; and on the back of his heroics in the 1984 Olympics- has been able to win without at least one other-sometimes 2-fellow all-star.

Here is the Trump in him.

Yeah....deny everything that implicates you.

In reply to jacksprat

LOL....Lebron did not join the NBA amid hype? More so than Jordan? What immense decision did Jordan make that affected the entire NBA and made it possible for him to win a Championship?

Wade won without Lebron and before Lebron....In fact he guided the Heat to the Championship with Shaq....upstaging Shaq as the true leader of the team.

Then Lebron joined him and relied on him to steady the team and vocally hand the team to Lebron.

Not one of Jordan's teammates had experience to guide or aid in guiding their team.

Did any of Michael's teammates make the Allstar game before he won a Championship?

Here

Scottie is always referred to as ONE OF....the best forward.....I have never heard Pippen referred to as the best at his position....Even in his era.

In reply to Ayenmol

You are the most Trumplike poster on this board. Hate, deflect, blame and just be blatantly dishonest, pretend to be an expert and with every post just magnify your ignorance. Lebron's first year in LA had special circumstances around injuries and you know it.

In reply to jacksprat

Listen jacksprat....i guess you could eat no reason....It is not hype when you are gaining recognition from results....Jordan won a Championship at the second highest level of Basketball in the world.
Then he went to the Olympics and lit it up.....He brought excitement to the occasion, not the other way round.

Lebron has no such moment/moments. He was hyped on potential.

Consider, Lebron did none of that but was selected first overall in the NBA draft....Michael did that, and opened eyes everywhere he went....where was he selected?

So which is hype?

Additionally, you act like Nike was a powerhouse in those days...Nike was no powerhouse, they grew with Jordan. They had no marketing giant then.

In reply to jacksprat
You know exactly what my point is MJ is six for six in the finals while Lebron is currently in his tenth final and so far only has three titles. Bill Russell is the best center to ever play the game with honorable mention to Wilt Chamberlain. I'm mystified when we talk about the "GOAT" nobody ever mentions Wilt.I guess it depends in what era you grew up.

In reply to Rudeman

Wilt was great

In reply to methodic

I agree he has records that will never get broken including averaging 50 points per game for a season.

In reply to Rudeman

scoring a 100 points

In reply to Rudeman

did you know Wilt said that he slept with 3 women a day for twenty years. Now that's a record.

For the people with convenient memories...and specifically the idiot who thinks police should spread six year olds on the pavement and who just likes to yap incessantly from a point utter ignorance...have a read the myth of Lebron not being 'clutch'.

I shared link with videos of a number of clutch plays recent ..might be in this thread..but can't bother checking which one exactly. Like I always say...fair enough if you don't like a person..or even his style of play...but don't belittle their achievements because of some hennish and largely ignorant perspective.

In reply to Rudeman

You make a very good point about Lebron going to 4 finals with all star team mates in Miami and only winning 2.

It's really too bad MJ fooled around with baseball in between those 2 threepeats.

I frankly don't care for the who is greater debate. MY fave NBA players...largely influenced by who I got to see are Magic and Kobe.
Lots of players have strengths in various areas...I suppose that MJ was able to find that balance that converted it into championships so I fully understand why people would say he's the greatest though.

But because it's a team game I'm not sure.

Is Denis Rodman in the conversation because of elite rebounding?
Is Larry Bird in the conversation as one of the best pure shooters in the game?

All I know....is that I'm a Lebron convert because:

1. He's a Laker
2. He has the best allround game I've seen since Magic
3. He has used his star power to do all sorts of good in the communities
4. He has done what lots of people seem to love re Windies cricket ie leveraged his power as a player and has exerted his influence beyond the court and impacted front office decisions.
5. I have a bias for great passers of the basketball. That element of his game has exploded...and he's in the conversation of most efficient passer in the NBA right now....added to defensive prowess..scoring ability etc.

I think focusing on how many championships were won is not necessarily the best indicator..matchup...complementary players ..and some luck / timing all influence this to a certain degree. Otherwise we would not recognize all obvious greats who never won a ring.

In reply to Cheeks

Lebron has defensive prowess?

Aight...

PS: Activism? Seriously? Naaah man. Even then...he sure threw Hong King under the bu$. Let's stick to the game when discussing the best 'players'.

In reply to Cheeks

Many of these greats ran into MJ.

Nuff said

In reply to JahJah

You watch Lebron move his feet to stay in front of players. I'm not counting chase down blocks as they are more highlight reel material ..even though they indicate commitment to the play. The guy reads the game like a boss and puts himself in position to prevent easy buckets. A lot of basketball defence is really about moving your feet and anticipating to stay in front of players...and sussing the offensive sets of the opponent.

In reply to JahJah

Yes. Lebron at least on Jordan's level on defense, on average.

In reply to BenGman

Thanks for the laugh.

In reply to Cheeks

He's fouled a hell of a lot of players and not get called for it. He's also mostly 'taking on' much smaller guys from what I'm seeing. He's a good defender. Elite? Naaah.

In reply to jacksprat

Great post Spratty

In reply to jacksprat

Own is a euphemism for physically assault now? You actually saw what Pistons used to do? Please give thanks that a team like that isn't allowed to exist in Lebron's era!!!!!! Nuff bawling to refs would tek place. NBA today is soft in comparison.

And you can talk about Jordan's first 6 years and his time with the Wizards, but no way in hell was that Miami team that was assembled to dominate supposed to win just 2 titles.

Jordan helped elevate Pippen's play. Lebron didn't do the same for Kyrie, Bosh, AD nor rasshole Wade!!!!!!! lol

Unnu is too much.

In reply to JahJah

Why are you all of a sudden echoing my arguments regarding Lebrons claim to the title of best ever?

You spent years arguing for....all b of a sudden you arguing against?

LaBron is one of the best defenders in the NBA period. Labron at 6-9 and 280lbs have to feet to have defended some of the best point gaurds in the NBA. When Derrick Rose was literally destroying all others before injury, LBJ took him out in the playoffs. His first year in Miami LBJ deferred to Wade and did not take charge in the first finals. It was Wade who told him that he had to be the man after that finals.

Pippen is one of the top 50 so to say he is just anyone is ludacris. MJ right is the best because he closes best but I rank LBJ right there because he can effect the whole game on different levels at a very high performance standard. To come from 1-3 against Golden State put a stamp on it.

Hate for LBJ is so deep. Yet all the man have done in almost 20 years is to show class and high level skill to entertain the fans of basketball.

In reply to seaegg99

Your idea of class and the meaning of class are not necessarily in tuned.

Class is not disrespecting the process and wishes of a group tasked with the appointment of the mvp.

Class is not wilfully and systematically extinguishing the competition in an attempt to pave the way to easy Championships.

Class is not stacking your teams with Allstars then taking all the credit for yourself ... and yes he did....the fact that he is claiming mvp while on a team with probably the best player this year not himself....shows how callous he is in recognition of his narcissistic basketball habits.

In reply to seaegg99

Also, if yoy have to go to the stat list to praise a player, am not sure how entertaining he is.

From what I saw of the highlights, he was pretty effective in that game....but then again, is so he like it....when leading by a lot he takes charge....when leading by a little he waits for others to step up.

Never fails.

He can give you 1 or two dominant games under the above circumstances....very effective against less talented teams....not so against the evenly matched teams when you have to show up each game.

In reply to seaegg99

His name is Lebron, but you could see how different he was against Hibbert though, no?

Who you talking about hating Lebron? Must only Ayenmol. Pointing out that he's not as great as Jordan is not hate. And you know, everyone who can't make a case for basketball greatness always brings up activism. That's when you know even they've admitted defeat right then and there.

MJ in his final Championship Season of 1998 saw 30.6 million viewers.....Game six Sunday saw 5.6 mil.

5.6 million!

So after years of seeing this man's exploits on the Court...the American people have decided it is not worth their time.

I saw a talking head....I think it was Perkins, state this NBA Championship was the most important one in Sports....yeah


Apparently a League in a full bubble playing 8 games and a playoff is more impressive than the NHL, who did a similar bubble....MLB who had no bubble and played 60 games....and r he NFL who has managed these new realities while not losing a single game, no bubble, and done so reasonably.


Not to mention Soccer, Cycling ....i saw Track being run over Zoom!

Zoom...!!!!... or at least virtual.

Not a single one has lost as many eyeballs as Basketball.

But some people want to tell me what we are seeing is historic.

Historically boring and umentertaining, maybe.

People are not fools....it is what it is....if it were great people would be watching.

SO pick a word and attack it! Hibbert was a good defensive player but limited offensively. How many conference finals did Hibbert win against LBJ? The man still is leading his team to championships and where is a much younger Hibbert now?

You said it!

Just saying the man have put himself in the conversation based on his actions on the court.

In reply to seaegg99

PS: By the time he was effective against Rose, I'm pretty sure Derrick had already been injured.

In reply to seaegg99

Who cares where who is now? You just made my point. He was timid defensively against a limited offensive player like Hibbert. That's what we are discussing.

Since when is 2 years younger much younger anyway?

PS: Wasn't Durant not torching Lebron?

Lebron was/is a good defender, but he's not up there with MJ.

But Spratty was telling us dat Detroit beat up and own young MJ 4-1 in first meeting (his 3rd year in the league was it?), then 4-2 the next year, then 4-3 (seeing di trend) the next year ...and what happened the 4th meeting in a row?

Yu wah si owning? 4 rassole love. Afta dat Detroit run weh never to be seen again.

DWL. MJ was like Pele. Come back wicked after all dat physical abuse when ah ball man ah play and revenge dem.

MJ step off a Baseball diamond and picked up right where him leff off.

Dat is a boss.

Full stap.

Ah hope Space Jam 2 mek money.

Only jackasses will not make allowance for the prevailing issues regarding race, elections, pandemic etc on NBA finals viewership. MANY white AMericans take issue with big black men speaking openly and frankly about these issues. Kudos to the NBA for looking at the big picture and taking the licks in the process. But right is right. Shut up and dribble eh???

Only jackasses who believe police are trained to spread six year olds on the pavement would blindly talk about how many people tuned in to the NBA finals without consideration of the current climate in America. For those who watched...the playoffs were great. Only Trumplike people blow their own trumpets incessantly and myopically focus solely on ratings. Lots of racists stopped watching NFL because of Kaepernick too.

That Ayenmol idiot keeps sinking to new lows. He can't even understand that Jah Jah doesn't think Lebron is the greatest ever...and can criticize his game..but still doesn't need to denigrate him incessantly to prove his point.

We can argue all we want here about who is greater. It doesn't matter. MJ's legacy is sealed...and if Lebron were to retire today..he has done enough to be one of the all time greats also. Like it or lump it.

In reply to JahJah

Guess you forgot Rose was MVP in 2010-2011 season and lost to the Heat in the Conference finals. He got hurt the following year. He was in his prime when LBJ took him out in the Conference finals.

Bosh was more matched up against Hibbert. You also forgot that Hibbert was 7-2 and was a defensive center. The heat was not a real physical team and Haslem actually got more playing time against Hibbert than Bosh because Bosh was too light to handle Hibbert. As the game changed to a more spacing type of play Hibbert became a relic because of his feet were like cement and guarding the paint became obsolete.

David Stern wanted MJ to be the face of the NBA for financial reasons so Detriot's physical style had to go! Once you breathed on MJ it was a foul after that. MJ GOAT yes but LBJ ain't that far behind.

I still remember him hitting a bank shoot over Ewing against Georgetown in the final minute to beat them. His teammates at North Carolina was Sam Perkins and James Worthy. Knew Jimmy Black the point guard back in the day. The Boogie Down Bronx!

In reply to seaegg99

Breathed on Jordan? Yu mean like this???????

DEAD

WID

LAFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

Allyuh does mek me laugh!! You're really at sea...and you just laid a big egg. 98 more to go?

Thankfully, some of us were actually around when NBA players were getting dropped kicked for fun.

Detroit 'physical'. How generous.


Just for shits and giggles.

Wait, is that a Piston's jersey to boot? Let's get physical...physical.


Big up Lebron all you want (top 5), but never again slander MJ.

Sidenote: Remember in footie when they used drop kick Pele when they couldn't handle him? Yu seen dat footage eh? Beefed up and start to kick dem back.

In reply to seaegg99

Lebron would see Hibbert in the paint and turn back. Let's not forget that. But again, back to what we are discussing but you seem to want to divert from. Lebron tried to defend big men, like Hibbert who wasn't a scorer, and he failed.

Thank you.

And no, I don't remember him consistently getting the better of a completely injury free Rose.

A few non calls with the consistent fouling of Murray in that one game in the conference finals...including that pivotal moment when I think it was a 1 or 2 point game.

Again, Lebron is a good defender. I just see him being 'up there' with MJ. It's no biggie.

PS:

I think there was more to it than that. He didn't seem mentally strong enough to shake off getting horned.

Time for the Lebron haters to give him his due respect. Like him or hate him he has stamped his legacy on the game. A lot of people did not like Kobe as well but towards the end of his career they respected him as one of the game legendary players

In reply to JahJah

Link Text

Like the man or not LBJ is still on the job and competing at a very high level. The athletes around him right now in the NBA are just special. Yet at his age and the wear and tear on his body does not keep him from being one of the two or three best players .
Will say MJ is still the GOAT in my book but LBJ is still writing his story.

Started watching and playing basketball seriously around 1975 as a teenager in the Bronx. Know very well the physical aspects of the game. Took home many an injury from playing in the schoolyard. Shoot I actually say a youth got shot in the hip because another kid couldn't handle losing game. That was Detroit and the Knicks type of game. Before them Maurice Lucus, Kermit Washington, Bob Lanier, Artis Gilmore and the likes were feared. Actually as bad as Detroit was Maurice Lucus would literally kill all of them.
Like I said after Detriot's two championships the game gradually became less physical and roughing up MJ and Pippen was over.

In reply to problemjay

What Legacy?

Lebron will be known for his propensity to seek out stars to play with.

He won One Championship without the aid of a bonafide star....and Kyrie came into his own and made HUGE contributions to the team in winning.,..not only hitting the shot but bringing back the team or hitting crucial shots to keep the team in multiple games.

Next...to those claiming Jordan was given preferential treatment, or hand chosen.

Jordan was not ever a priority for the NBA....in fact the idea of riding a particular player was foreign to the NBA till Jordan....it was all about team and the Lakers and Celtics were it.

Jordan had to earn his keep....he earned the respect of Nike who rode him to some great promotions on the back of his ACHIEVEMENTS.

Then once he proved he could win ... remember there were a ton of media people who called the Bulls a one man team due to Jordan carrying the team on his back.....the prevailing thought at the time was that the guy was a great individual player, but could not overcome the deep teams based on his scoring prowess.

All the while, more and more people were turning in to see the amazing things he was doing ingame.

That is when the NBA saw the Power of his individual stardom!

Ever since he left and the ratings began to decline, they have been hyping talented players as the next Jordan....none of them has lived up to it.

Lebron was referred to as the chosen one from the day he stepped into the League.

Why?

The rules and marketing was built to give him every chance to be the face of the League.

This was no secret, the League took active steps to promote scoring and a free flowing game, geared to attracting eyeballs.

So it is either pure deception or ignorance for anyone to even broach the subject of preferential treatment when comparing Jordan and Lebron.

One earned his respect by going through the gauntlet...and always had to earn his way to the line.

The other was given a clear landing strip with aid from the top to gain an advantage.

While still yet creating an atmosphere devoid of much competition by teaming up with his rivals....

This is indisputable.

All the while, the audience has shown by their unwillingness to tune in, that this is just not authentic.

Even if the morons on here look at the facts and claim the NBA is suffering due to the Virus and Social unrest and taking Political stands.....yet all the other Sports are doing the same....kneeling occured in the NFL long before it did in the NBA... yet no other League has seen such decline.

Of course no one addresses the fact that Lebron is in the forefront of this drive to make himself a Leader in the Social forum.
An attempt to do something Jordan did not do....with no thought to its effects, as long as he can be memorialized by some and detract from his path on the Court to gain Championships.

The sympathy play. All calculated so he can be viewed as the greatest.

He had to be talked down from the ledge by cooler heads when he proposed going nuclear during the debate over the Social response.

Yeah ... this is Lebron's NBA.

Devoid of any real drama.

When he is gone, you will see the truth start being written.

To those who want to talk about the stars getting calls...the type of calls that are made today are night and day compared to Jordan's day. Again indisputable!

Yet even beyond that.
I constantly see Lebron moving laterally, the defender doing same. He then seeps his shoulder to clear the defender out...and a foul is called on the defender.

Then when other smaller players do the same ... they are called for offensive fouls.

For your consideration.


Another...

I refuse to read any more of Ayenmol's rubbish...but here is an interesting article on TV ratings on sports ACROSS the BOARD

Lebron didn't cause NBA ratings to decline as that lying punk is trying to disingenuously imply.

In reply to methodic

No it is not! Stop being disingenuous. LOL.

Lebron has to play 20+ years to achieve 1/2 of what MJ did in his sleep.

Allyuh fool fool fuh real. LMAO