Message Board Archives

From Why we kneel; How we Rise

franklyn stephenson and collis king have shown little regret for their actions.

In reply to velo

Mikey also made the point that from speaking with Makaya Ntini, that the black population had very little knowledge of the tours- showing that the tours were not ‘for them’- but rather for a white public obsessed with sport.
Now for me, I’ve heard many a rebel offer that they went to ‘inspire’ the black youth

He is taking about you LAWRENCE ROWE!

Keep on deluding yourself that it is because of 'envy' why Mikey and most thoughtful people have take this attitude toward your shameless perfidy!

It is noteworthy that when Mr. Mandela visited the Caribbean, he did not ask to meet with not a single one of these traitors who took the blood money to sell out Black people in South Africa.

SO much for their post facto justification of going to apartheid South Africa to "inspire" Black people.

In reply to jacksprat

Lawrence Rowe thinks that Mikey is envious of him?????

In reply to jacksprat

I thought Mandela was not the vengeful type!

In reply to StumpCam

Not asking to meet with them is vengeful?

In reply to Dukes

What's interesting is the relevance. Mikey was able to take those two paragraphs above from the 1st edition of 'Whispering Death-The life n Times of..' published at the end of the '80's

In reply to Dukes

What do you mean by not asking?? He never ask about them or he asked not to meet with them?
I’m not as bright as you…. Maybe you can break it down for a not so bright fella.

In reply to StumpCam

I did not interpret or deduce anything.I merely repeated what Spratty said.No brightness required or utilized.
I do not need to break down anything.
.

If Mandela had said I do not want to meet with any of those cricketers who made that tour and I wish evil on them, then I could understand your vengeful comment.

In reply to Dukes

Yes, Yagga said that, in his prime, he was an "icon" on par with Usain Bolt and, because Mikey never attained that level of celebrity, he became envious of him

In reply to Halliwell

Almost finished that book. Read about 3/4 of it on a plane

In reply to jacksprat

Yagga that is real yagga mindfulness
He will always be a yagga

In reply to jacksprat

Well my leg breaks and googlies were awesome and if I had continued I would probably have been on par with Abdul Qadir!!!!!!

In reply to jacksprat
"SO much for their post facto justification of going to apartheid South Africa to "inspire" Black people."
U know, if after going and coming back, if when ask, if they just said, "I went for the money." I would understand, but not after getting the money and saying we went for X, Y and Z.
btw, saying I would understand don't mean I agree...

Of the guys that went to SA ,I find it difficult to forgive LGRowe and Croft, because I thought they would have made it back into the test team. The others had limited prospects of earnings.

In reply to camos
Bro Croft Left The Test Team on the eve of a test match to join the group in SA. Rowe was dropped and was out of the team for about 2yrs. I was told a story that trying to get back in Yagga over a beer with Lloyd in Kingston CC asked. 'So man like me cyan make WI team again?' Lloyd-'Yagga everyone knows you can bat, just make some runs' Yagga made a ton but was never picked. Heard he was miffed that the likes of Bachuss n Logie were picked over him.

In reply to camos
Croft did us a favor by entrenching Malcolm Denzil Marshall into the X1 at the perfect time!

In reply to camos
Did Everton Mathis go on that tour?

Why is this still relevant?

If this is in Holding’s new book, a bloke for whom I have a lot of time, he should learn to chill to fuk out

In reply to sudden

I do not see how a West Indian cricketer who was playing cricket during that rebel SA tour could write a book with that title and not mention that rebel tour.

In reply to tops

I don't think so, but not 100% sure!

In reply to Dukes

This has been mentioned before in books and various publications and discussed here ad nauseam.


What more is there to say?


Time to move on

In reply to tops
Yes, Ray Wynter, Yagga n Rowe the ones Jamaicans who migrated n "survived"
Austin n Chang stayed n suffered

In reply to Brerzerk

All this is ancient history.Time to move on.Only thing I have to say it was shameful how Jamaicans and the West Indies board treated Lawrence Rowe.The man was not a politician.He made a mistake going to Apartheid SA.One of the most gifted batsman I have ever seen.He was so persecuted he had to flee to America where I think he still lives.Shame on you self rightous Yardies.

In reply to Rascalp
Why have you singled out Rowe the most financially secure of the lot pre-tour? Funny he was the only one officially forgiven n honored by any national JA organization until he promptly turned around n shit on them forcing them to withdraw the honor bestowed. Are you making blanket statements with insufficient info???

In reply to Brerzerk
The only ones from JA I seem to hear of R Rowe and Austin. I haven't heard of Wynter, Chang or Mathis.

BTW, didn’t Dukes idol, the great Sir Garfield St Aubyn Sobers, went to South Africa and Rhodesia?? Or is that just my imagination??? Asking for a friend!

In reply to StumpCam
He went to a double-wicket tourney in Rhodesia. Kanhai just after retirement also played in the segregated league in South Africa also. Not many know that

In reply to tops
Chang ended up worse or as bad as Danny Germs Austin

In reply to StumpCam

Oh damn! Mouth open tory jump out.

In reply to sudden

You know the history but if you peruse this thread, you will see staggering IGNORANCE.and those who forget or do not know their history are condemned to repeat it.
I like to think I am knowledgable about these matters, yet this morning I learnt that Haiti paid reparations for more than 100 years to France for abolishing slavery.That debt was finally paid off in the 1940's .DID YOU KNOW THAT????


HISTORY LESSON

In reply to StumpCam

Sobers did play in Rhodesia in a non-representative tournament.He was condemned for it and an apology was demanded.He apologized unreservedly and was forgiven.This was in the 1960's.The awareness and information was far more pervasive in the 1980's so ignorance was not a valid excuse as it might have been some 20 years earlier.Sobers did not play against a representative apartheid team as an HONORARY WHITE and certainly did not sign a secret deal under cover like these guys did.He also did not turn his back on the West Indies team in order to play in that tournament.
I would give you the benefit of the doubt and say you really did not fully understand the circumstances because maybe you were not around at that time.

In reply to Dukes

Actually, it was a vague recollection that some how surfaced from my memory as a child. I remember seeing it in the newspapers but don’t really know the details.

In reply to Dukes

It was actually September 1970

Haven't heard anything about this in the last few years but this might have been an attempt at some kind of redemption.

Lawrence Rowe Foundation

In reply to Dukes

Black people on Britain stopped paying reparations to Slave Owners, via tax, in 2015!!!!

In reply to spider

That article is an abomination.It is very misleading.It cherry picks comments made by Holding and Manley and mischaracterizes Arthur Ashe's trip to South Africa where he coached black and colored kids.Rowe claiming that he was motivated to go to South Africa so as to help people like Everton Mattis is a Bit rich.
I really do not want to delve back into all this stuff but the distortions are nauseating.

In reply to CricSham
didn't know that proverb was known in Guyana too. So far n yet so close we are

In reply to Dukes

Agree, and Ali Bacher's ploy to have them go to one township and coach was a great piece of Public Reltns. for Saffie n friends consumption.

In reply to Dukes
off-script-By the way the impoverishment of both Cuba n Haiti by American policies affects the whole Caribbean. Had those two nations been allowed to achieve their full potential trade, ex-pat employment and other economic benefits would benefit many of us.

In reply to Brerzerk
So true.
BTW For posters on this thread the way I remember it, and I could be wrong. Sir Garry never apologized when he came to Guyana. Word back then was that sobers felt it was beneath him to offer an apology on the request of Forbes Burnham when Forbes was one of the most notorious dictators in the Caribbean.

In reply to CricSham
Wrong, Burnham demanded his apology if he was to set foot in Guyana. The thing that mattered most though was Indira Ganndhi threatened to cancel the tour the the WI of Wadekar's team where Gavaskar debuted. It was then that Eric Williams crafted a letter for Sobers to sign. Wes Hall was asked to deliver it to Sobers.

In reply to Brerzerk
My friend it was so long ago and I do confess I do not remember all the details. We seem to agree on
a few points:
1) Burnham demanded an apology before Sobers can play cricket again in Guyana and a few other
caribbean leaders joined in the call for an apology. Indira subsequently added her two cents.
2) Sir Garry categorically refused to apologize. I recall that distinctly
3) The letter was reportedly signed by Sobers. Did he actually sign it? The public knows not.

Fact: Sobers simply refused to answer a call from one of the most dastardly leaders in the Caribbean.
Mind you, none of this is to even suggest that Sir Garry condoned the racist policies in SA. He never did. In subsequent visits to Guyana, Sobers always maintained his position that he went there to play cricket and not politics.

Reflection: Perhaps if the call was first made by the Barbados PM or someone like Manley, Sobers might have considered explaining his position on the matter. Who knows. But to Burnham. That was beneath Sir Garry.

In reply to jacksprat
Correct is right

In reply to spider

Yags was my Idol as a child, every drive, every block, every sweep, every pull, every late cut, every glide, every glance, every hook, and every flick had to be an emulation of Yagga or it wouldn't be perfect.

But as Dukes said, that article, especially the reference to the late Mr. Ash, is a distortion and red herring.

In reply to CricSham
We really haven't disagreed on any of the matters except that we succored each other's memory

I have always been more sympathetic towards the Rebels, and I remain so today.

In reply to Wally-1

So it is Rowe who seemed to have pointed to Ashe and Mandela and his duty to his colleagues as justification for making the trip. How is that a distortion by the person doing the report?

In reply to spider

Doesn't that show a tinge of being veracious or honest?

How about Rowe's side of the story or Rowe's explanation?

It's those little subtleties that expose the intended repair job.

In reply to Wally-1

Means he was unreserved, willing to discuss