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An island nation with a comparable population to the West Indies islands.Look at the Kiwi rankings.No.1 in test rankings...No.1 in ODI rankings...No.4 in T20 rankings.West Indies near bottom in all formats.What are the Kiwis doing that the dunces who run West Indies cricket are not doing?...Discuss.

Currently they have more talented players than we do. They allow themselves a decent FC season where their cricketers can develop rather than agreeing to pointless white ball cricket tours during their FC season which would deprive them of their best players and allow these players to gain work and work on any technical difficulties. Their players who play in international tournaments have agents that negotiate and allow them time to rest and to represent their country. Shall I go on?

In reply to VoopsandOut
Apart from the fact they have a world class batsman ranked by ICC at no.2.Kane Williamson that helps.And we are sticking to a 42 yr old grandad the Universe boss.That just about says it all of the incompentence of those who run the game in the West Indies bereft of any new ideas.Good post.They should read it.

In reply to Alan

To be fair West Indies hasn't had a bat of the caliber of Williamson in some time. Who has really seized the opportunity to emerge into the next great West Indies bat?

In reply to Alan

NZ is one independent country for starters so the insularity and selfishness that has characterized WI administrations from almost inception is not present in the NZC body

In reply to Alan
Is there any insularity in New Zealand?
CWI consist of many Islands, with poor cricket structures.

In reply to Jumpstart

And yet???

NZ has not experienced the successes of the WI such as it is

In reply to sudden
We are talking about the modern era...NOW.

In reply to sudden

It was different close to 50 years ago. Almost all the wi players were playing in england, so they got accustomed to professionalism and different pitches. Aso, black pride and the racism black people faced in the 70s in the UK(#riversofblood) and South Africa clearly motivated the team. The post independence confidence, as short as it was also played a role. And as Lloyd himself said winning makes the insularity irrelevant.

In reply to Alan

So

In reply to Jumpstart

Only WIndians try so hard to explain away the success of their team

And it is never due to the hard work and skills of the players themselves but some other outside source

And then you would call others insular

Medice, cura te ipsum

another thing- Oz said they used the WI winning template during the Lloyd and Richards eras to build back their team and i am yet to hear any Ozzie fan solely attribute their success to copying the WI.

In reply to sudden

Indeed. The aussies did use the WI style on on field play(with the grotesque addition of "MENTAL DISINTEGRATION" which was a code word for vile abuse and racism by a few players) and tactics. No argument their. But you would know better than me the roots of the Australian success. I wasn't born in the 80s unfortunately. You know how the WI reduced australia to ashes with beatings of the most severe nature. And you know the processes they used through academies to turn mediocre players into very good ones. Which part of the west indian success involved any of that meticulous planning, training and development by the board or authorities. Not even Viv warning the authorities that WI cricket was in serious danger if they did not start the process of training the next generation in his first autobiography, "Hitting Across The Line", got them out of their complacency . Camacho, for example only became personally aware of Andy Roberts after he knocked him out cold in a practice match the WI had versus Hampshire on the team's 1973 visit.

I'll give you a story. Last year, Rudi Webster published an article in one our daily newspapers. It had been 25 years since the WI had been toppled and the region still had not recovered, hence the publishing of the article. Rudi said that a few months before Australia's visit in 1995, a South African administrator had visited Barbados. He told Rudi that WI cricket was in serious trouble, judging by the standard of club and in Barbados, which noted was inferior to the standards of school cricket in SA. And this is before a series the WI were universally expected to win. In short, his assessment was the WI might win that Australia series(they did not) but the end of the dynasty was imminent and could not be far off. Webster agreed and 25 years later, we are still moaning about that loss. WICB has made two attempts at the Australian example, the HPC sponsored by Sagicor being the finest example(and a serious missed opportunity spoiled by that moron Cameron) and no clear path to get WI cricket out of its morass. And the end of WI cricket is closer to us than its revival, make no mistake about that

The Australian government after the 1976 Olympics which the Aussie did poorly, established a ministry of sports.
The Australian institute of sports was established after that.
After the 1988 winter Olympics, a number of Canadian athletes moved to Australia as coaches,
Baseball Grapefruit league had a number of Aussie annually, observing training.
Cricket benefitted from the programs, the Institute of sports is developing.
I live in an Olympic city, and on the news and the dailies during that time, you will hear about the top Winter Olympians, who was leaving for Australia as coaches.

In reply to openning

exactly. I remember watching a documentary about the Aussie academy from the 80s. And they were at the cutting edge of sport science in the 1980s and early 90s. I think the cricket academy was a joint project between Australian Institute of Sport and the the ACA(now CA). And you look at the list of cricketers that place has produced: the michael husseys, the pontings, the gillespies, the metronome known as mcgrath.....almost the entirety of the second best cricket team in history passed through the academy. The only 90s cricketer of note who was not part of it was Warne, who was a once in a lifetime talent. I even think he was there but he got expelled

In reply to Jumpstart
I've followed the Aussies since the late seventies, sports is part of their curriculum.

In reply to openning

They take it very seriously......to the point of it being nauseating. The whole win at all costs attitude is realy disgusting. Another elephant is that doping is rife in australian sport, even at the semi professional levels

I guess it's kind of weird. Australia seems to play pretty much EVERY sport at high level, but in some sports they're beloved (usually the women's sports) while in others they're reviled (ie cricket)

In reply to Tryangle

the only aussie sportsperson i am a fan of is Liz Cambage....she's gorgeous

In reply to Jumpstart

That's not quite exactly what I mean by 'beloved', but point well taken

In reply to Tryangle
i respect mcgrath, respect warne.....like would be pushing it. Their conduct on the field left a lot to be desired and it damaged the sport

Are there any imports in the WI, even British Windians? Yes, NZ has since 2012 or so revamped their whole program but how many of their various squads are made up of people who were either born their or did not develop their cricket basics there? They benefit from a wider talent pool through immigration WI does not.

In reply to Jumpstart

Oh yeah, screw all the men's team cricketers, no doubt. Although I have a soft spot for David Boon because he looked like someone's caring uncle who'd drink beer and tell stories.

In reply to Jumpstart

how about Not Dinas's theatrics against Pakistan i believe it was?

In reply to Tryangle

Uncle Albert we Brits would call him

In reply to Alan
Didn't Hilaire and Co. drop Grandad from as long ago as 2011 with the expressed objective of 'Picking youngsters with a view to the future?' Now, if those young players had grabbed those opportunities and the boar developed them how good Granddad even be remembered? His lilli 20 is still more than many of them mekking=disgrace

In reply to Brerzerk

That was the problem. A team of only youngsters is guaranteed to get a lifetime of lix. Look at Australia in the 80s, after batterings by the WI, rebel exoduses and retirements of 3 or four greats. Allan Border was left by himself, and between 1984 and 1989, Australia won one series, versus NZ at home in 1987. And at that point the Allan Border was probably the 2nd or 3rd best bat in the world after Viv and Gordon Greenidge/Martin Crowe. Victimizing the senior players never worked. The Holder experiment was just as unsuccessful.

In reply to Jumpstart

you and your shoite again. i knew it would come around to this.


let me ask again what was the record of those they replaced?

unnuh too like to revise history

In reply to sudden

suit yourself homes.......but do some research before you talk rubbish on a public platform. The Aussies played 11 series.....and managed to win just one, vs NZ in 87/88. Mike Whitney keeping out an over as last man from Richard Hadley

In reply to Jumpstart

I am talking about your reference to WI team and their young replacements as you articulated it

In reply to Jumpstart
What is your criteria for selecting a team?
One only has to look at Dhoni the mentor and Gayle's friendly selection.

In reply to Jumpstart

Liz Cambage.

She is too tall for you ....6ft 8inches

Duksie type....

In reply to sudden

Suit yourself

Link Text

From the horse's mouth

In reply to Jumpstart

Won’t that also affect the so called stars that you championed?

In reply to sudden

To an extent yes. Its the reason Chris Gayle never learned to use his feet and ran from seam bowlers in tests like Chaminda Vaas, its the reason Carlos Brathwaite bowls at two miles an hour and is almost always unpenetrative, its the reason Darren Bravo finds piercing gaps very difficult(half of his problem is the inability to rotate the strike.....among other issues. The only players of the recent past who were technically very sound were Ramnaresh Sarwan(victim of that clown Gibson) and Darren Ganga, who to me should have achieved more but I guess the mental side of the game was a challenge for him

In reply to Jumpstart

Braff collided with Floyd Reifer on the cricket field going for a catch

such were the injuries that both spend over a year out of cricket. Ricky longer than Floyd

when he returned he was slower than before.

Sars was asked by the coach to look into himself and become all that he could be. instead soft ass Sars retreated into his shell and was scared by what he saw.

the problem there was that the coach treated WI players like he would the English by challenging them but that does not work with present day WIndians. they think you are insulting, disrespecting or whatever word you want to use to describe players who are not introspective and believe that after playing the game for a while they have nothing else to learn.

it has been said that the Jamaicans tricked him when Gayle took over the captaincy. he thought it was temporary and he would have resumed the role. alas.

prior to that Lara had dropped Sars and i saw Sars during the WC in the WI and he looked like he didnt want to be there. he was sluggish in the field and appeared disinterested in the proceedings

you have certain axes to grind and you grind them no matter what the circumstances.

i am made to understand that when he was cappo Braff never acquiesced to certain pleas that the ODI team sabotage CWI management and instead reported what was suggested by a Tricky Tit.

and re Gibbo- I am informed that said Tricky Tit could never get an audience with him to spout his bile

I think that it is correct to say that there came a point in WI cricket post 2000 when the players became too large and started challenging the coaches. It started at least with Gibson or maybe before. Players acted as if they were better than they really were and more importantly did not respect the hierarchy. A lot of fault goes to the Board for their treatment of the players but at the end of the day, character of individuals is the most important thing. Do you want to succeed or do you want to get rid of a coach or a captain you do not like? All, from Lara (whom I admire greatly) go down were guilty of that kind of behaviour and I think that it contributed to lowering our standards as a playing team.

In reply to sudden

Is ironic Sarwan's best years were under Gayle as cappo

Both chanderpaul, gayle and DJ Bravo had similar scathing assessments of the ugly man. Tiger had to threaten the WICB with a lawsuit to get gibson to back off, so it cyah be that is all gibson told sarwan. Lara dropped sarwan for the first two tests of the 2005/6 pakistan tour.....but lara and sarwan are still very good mates today. Sarwan even appeared on a sky sports documentary about brian. Sarwan does not have that type of relationship with Otis so it is highly unlikely that is all the ugly man said


By Gibson or some other bajan I'm sure, seeing that that has historically been the sole source of
your references.........yuh did down tools for the physicist before the 1992 SA test too, ent?

In reply to openning

Gayle on current form is NOT an automatic pick. I don't even think he should be on the team. He never moved his feet and his competitive advantages, good eyes and sharp reflexes, SEEM to be shot. That being said, neither are JH or any of the names being bandied about

In reply to Jumpstart

since you cherry picked what to respond to, let me say this, Gayle, Bravo, Sarwan and to a lesser extent Chanders have a history of cussing coaches.

they had great issues with Hoad and with Bennet King.

when told that professional sportsmen should not consume fried chicken and coke Bravo said he knew his body well and disregarded that advice.

Sarwan cussed Bennet King stink stink in an interview.

well we all know about Gayle and fitness

chanders was asked to stop playing ODIs to preserve himself for test and he thought that was disrespectful to him.

so no WI player of that era has room to talk. we were unfit and hated training. we had no discipline

wi fast bowlers could not hit the pitch mat consistently in training and when told to do push up as encouragement they protested and said master day done and refused.

others walked off saying the sun too hot.

and all this was condoned by the Tricky Trini Tit.

no wonder our cricket is where it is.

In reply to sudden

REALLY? And jerome taylor cleaned up england for 51, before picking up an injury(it happens to fast bowlers) and being discarded and lied on on english television by a St Lucian politician with rell questions to answer who then functioned as WICB CEO......and whose words were immediately reprimanded and contradicted by Michael Holding.

Breds in 2009, taylor was competing with Steyn and Johnson for the best spells of the year.......and he won

In reply to sudden

Oh shite man. Yuh going at Not Dinas so hard that he had to pull out the juvenile "ugly man" reference that adults of substance usually abandon post-high school. The inmates on the WI team and their outside "agent" tried to run the asylum and Gibson said "none ah dat round here." The board for once decided to back the coach and the rest is history--chair throwing incident and all

In reply to Walco

blah blah blah......hearsay that none of you can substantiate

In reply to Jumpstart

JH should be selected ahead of OT, any batsman that performed in this year CPL would had been better suited for the batting role.
Gayle is actually showing his age, he is slow, cannot run, cannot field and continue to fool many West Indies fans.