Dukes: So Sobie Was Faster Than Hall & Griffith?

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link Walco Joined: Jun 21, 2008
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6/22/22, 6:01:15 PM 

link doosra Joined: May 25, 2004
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6/22/22, 6:05:05 PM 
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In reply to Walco

cricinfo gah upate then?

link Walco Joined: Jun 21, 2008
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6/22/22, 6:11:21 PM 
In reply to doosra
Perhaps smile But I am interested in the thoughts of Dukes and those who saw all three of them bowl in person. Murray was in a better position to judge than most though.

link sudden Joined: Nov 26, 2006
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6/22/22, 6:21:46 PM 
In reply to Walco

Ask Fuzzy and Opening too. They are of some vintage. I think Opening saw Bradman big grin


On a serious note, DonD, Ewart and Hubie could also assist

link Dukes Joined: Dec 5, 2002
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6/22/22, 6:22:55 PM 
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In reply to Walco

Sobie could bowl a few balls here and there as fast as Hall and Griffith.The reason it would seem faster is because you do not expect it to be so fast.Garry had such a perfect rhythm and it is that which allowed him to occasionally generate extreme pace..
Hall once bowled for 2 hours straight at a pace that Sobie could never match in a million years but for a few balls here and there he could.

link Scar Joined: Nov 13, 2002
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6/22/22, 6:30:05 PM 
In reply to Dukes
Some say Charliie was quicker than Hall and was more feared

link Dukes Joined: Dec 5, 2002
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6/22/22, 6:41:34 PM 
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In reply to Scar

Some say Charliie was quicker than Hall and was more feared


Griffith was seemingly at his fastest in 1963 in England.I was too young to see that series but when I saw Griffith in 1965 it seemed to my young eyes that Hall was faster.
Having seen tapes of both Hall and Griffith in 1963 it seemed to me that Griffith was generally not as fast as Hall but occasionally he produced a bouncer or a Yorker that was like 100mph and invariably took a wicket.That is why people questioned his action.

link DonD Joined: Nov 28, 2002
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6/22/22, 7:10:34 PM 
In reply to Dukes
I agree with your assessment. I saw a lot of Hall, Griffith and Sobers. For the longest while the fastest spell of bowling I ever saw was Hall bowling at Sabina Park in 1959 when he bagged 7 wickets vs England. I once saw Charlie Griffith bowl a bouncer to Phil Sharpe, talk about English man dancing the limbo. Sobers had a perfect side on action, his first three overs could be pretty quick, however, he was not in the class of Hall and Griffith when it came to sustained pace. Murray was just being kind. Murray started to play for WI in 1963, by then, Hall's pace was declining but he was still quick. Griffith's pace began to decline after Benaud criticized his action mercilessly in 1965.

link Walco Joined: Jun 21, 2008
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6/22/22, 7:17:59 PM 
In reply to sudden
I think Opening saw Bradman

lol lol lol

link Brerzerk Joined: Mar 15, 2021
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6/22/22, 7:19:31 PM 
I do not think he was faster than either unless it was pre mid-sixties. He was certainly more skillful.
Sabina Park '68 took the newball ahead of both and at the end of the 1st over England were 0/2.
Boycott b Sobers 0 Cowdrey lbw Sobers 0 England ended the evening on 4/17 Hall n Griff taking care of Barrington
and Graveney I think. NB That was immediately after Sobers made 113! Imagine that in WI 1st innings only one man
stood up. A lanky fella named Clive Hubert...! The things that a tiny tot's mind can memba wow!!!

link Walco Joined: Jun 21, 2008
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6/22/22, 7:22:37 PM 
In reply to Dukes
Many thanks for your perspective. I think Murray was saying that Sobie could crank it up and bowl faster than those two guys, but like DonD said, Murray may have caught Hall and Griffith on the back end of their careers ...

link Walco Joined: Jun 21, 2008
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6/22/22, 7:27:10 PM 
In reply to DonD and Brezerk
Interesting stuff about those 1959 an 1968 matches. I hope Hubert sees this thread smile

link openning Joined: Nov 12, 2002
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6/22/22, 8:12:45 PM 
In reply to Walco

I think Opening saw Bradman

Not even a video
Wes was fast
Charlie was dangerous with his Bouncers and Yorkers
Gary was a swinging medium pacer.
Anthony Mayers assisted Wes very well, he had someone at the other end who was fast and mean, and built like Oshane Thomas
I saw lots of Charlie, just as mean as Mayers, but more dangerous.
I only saw SirGary playing local cricket once, all other times was for either Barbados or the West Indies
Sir Gary had the same discipline in his bowling as Denis Atkinson, who was the best Seam bowler I have seen.

link tc1 Joined: Jun 11, 2004
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6/22/22, 10:00:29 PM 
In reply to Walco

Sobie appears to be faster at the Oval in 1968 than Hall or Griffith true the eyes of the young. In this series Hall look tired.

Griffith was not as fast as Hall, but he had a dangerous bouncer and a wicked yorker.

link tc1 Joined: Jun 11, 2004
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6/22/22, 10:02:13 PM 
In reply to openning


you omitted the 3rd pace bowler for Spartan George Rock (RIP).

link openning Joined: Nov 12, 2002
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6/23/22, 2:19:03 AM 
In reply to tc1
George Rock was a good club cricketer, nothing special.

link Halliwell Joined: May 13, 2005
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6/23/22, 5:12:44 AM 
May I just say that this Forum is blessed beyond measure to have you guys on it, and giving of your vast experience and considered opinions.
This is priceless stuff.

Thank you.

link CITYBOY Joined: Jul 10, 2017
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6/23/22, 5:39:38 AM 
What useless arguments.. pros and cons...
Neither Hall Griffith or Sobie were consistently express .. Hall on occasions would get to 90 plus .. but that was the odd delivery ... Griff never touched 90 and Sobie might get one to about 85 ..
They seemed fast to the puerile eyes .. so does a spinner ..
Hall /Griffith troubled batsmen with bouncers as most could not hook ..
you have had to play this game at a very high level to understand .. express / fast at a consistent level by a bowler ..I was express and fast .. when I delivered the ball .. I consistently was in the batsman face before the ball reached him.. now that is express
Most fast men toil at about 85 ...
Murray made that statement when analysed can be truth to him..

Sobie was hitting the deck with the seam .. the ball would take off faster and quicker and as such felt harder by Murray ..
Compared to Hall and Griff .. the seam was all over the place and it would only take off if it hits the seam .. but would slow if it just hits leather
Seam versus fast .. think about it.. as I said you had to play at a high level to comprehend ..
George Rock was a bad man. He was a good medium fast man

link tops Joined: Jan 12, 2003
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6/23/22, 6:28:54 AM 
In reply to Halliwell
May I just say that this Forum is blessed beyond measure to have you guys on it, and giving of your vast experience and considered opinions.
This is priceless stuff.

Thank you.

%100 agree.
These gentlemen keep this site interesting to read.
Had it not B for them, I would have gone a long time back.
Thank you fellas. 🤔🙌

link Dukes Joined: Dec 5, 2002
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6/23/22, 7:59:12 AM 
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In reply to Brerzerk

I do not think he was faster than either unless it was pre mid-sixties. He was certainly more skillful.
Sabina Park '68 took the newball ahead of both and at the end of the 1st over England were 0/2.
Boycott b Sobers 0 Cowdrey lbw Sobers 0


Sobie did that numerous times in his career i.e open the bowling and get the opening batsman out for a duck.He did it at least 3 times in test and another 3 or 4 times in Sheffield Shield cricket.I remember Redpath.

1st time Micky Stewart

2nd time Boycott

3rd time Boycott

P.S I checked and it was 5 times 4 matches and included Simpson twice,Lawry,Redpath and a chap named Thomas.He got both Simpson and Thomas for 0 in a match. All these guys played test cricket for Australia.

link tc1 Joined: Jun 11, 2004
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6/23/22, 10:33:27 AM 
In reply to openning


Stop, look at his record.

link Fivestar Joined: Aug 30, 2003
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6/23/22, 2:12:52 PM 
In reply to openning

Charlie was dangerous with his Bouncers and Yorkers


Charlie Griffith hit Nari Contractor on the head with a bouncer during India's tour to the Caribbean in 1962. The blow fractured Contractor's skull and he underwent emergency surgery to save his life. In fact, a metal plate was put in his head. Interestingly, after 60 years the metal plate was recently removed from Contractor's head as it was causing him problems.

link Dukes Joined: Dec 5, 2002
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6/23/22, 3:31:18 PM 
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In reply to Fivestar

I heard that Frankie Worrell donated blood for that surgery.

link Brerzerk Joined: Mar 15, 2021
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6/23/22, 5:59:20 PM 
In reply to Dukes
It is documented. That's one of the reason he is revered in India.

link TheTrail Joined: Jun 7, 2008
Posts: 20260
6/23/22, 8:48:33 PM 
In reply to CITYBOY

What useless arguments.. pros and cons...
Neither Hall Griffith or Sobie were consistently express .. Hall on occasions would get to 90 plus .. but that was the odd delivery ... Griff never touched 90 and Sobie might get one to about 85 ..
They seemed fast to the puerile eyes .. so does a spinner ..
Hall /Griffith troubled batsmen with bouncers as most could not hook ..
you have had to play this game at a very high level to understand .. express / fast at a consistent level by a bowler ..I was express and fast .. when I delivered the ball .. I consistently was in the batsman face before the ball reached him.. now that is express
Most fast men toil at about 85 ...
Murray made that statement when analysed can be truth to him..


Was there a speed gun back in those dinosaur era? If not, why would you give mental credence to Murray's assumption?

Was there a speed gun back in those dinosaurs' era?Seems to me this was a tall tail joke!! lol lol

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