So says Deryk Murray Deryck Murray: Sobers bowled faster than Hall and Griffith

In reply to Walco

cricinfo gah upate then?

In reply to doosra
Perhaps But I am interested in the thoughts of Dukes and those who saw all three of them bowl in person. Murray was in a better position to judge than most though.

In reply to Walco

Ask Fuzzy and Opening too. They are of some vintage. I think Opening saw Bradman


On a serious note, DonD, Ewart and Hubie could also assist

In reply to Walco

Sobie could bowl a few balls here and there as fast as Hall and Griffith.The reason it would seem faster is because you do not expect it to be so fast.Garry had such a perfect rhythm and it is that which allowed him to occasionally generate extreme pace..
Hall once bowled for 2 hours straight at a pace that Sobie could never match in a million years but for a few balls here and there he could.

In reply to Dukes
Some say Charliie was quicker than Hall and was more feared

In reply to Scar



Griffith was seemingly at his fastest in 1963 in England.I was too young to see that series but when I saw Griffith in 1965 it seemed to my young eyes that Hall was faster.
Having seen tapes of both Hall and Griffith in 1963 it seemed to me that Griffith was generally not as fast as Hall but occasionally he produced a bouncer or a Yorker that was like 100mph and invariably took a wicket.That is why people questioned his action.

In reply to Dukes
I agree with your assessment. I saw a lot of Hall, Griffith and Sobers. For the longest while the fastest spell of bowling I ever saw was Hall bowling at Sabina Park in 1959 when he bagged 7 wickets vs England. I once saw Charlie Griffith bowl a bouncer to Phil Sharpe, talk about English man dancing the limbo. Sobers had a perfect side on action, his first three overs could be pretty quick, however, he was not in the class of Hall and Griffith when it came to sustained pace. Murray was just being kind. Murray started to play for WI in 1963, by then, Hall's pace was declining but he was still quick. Griffith's pace began to decline after Benaud criticized his action mercilessly in 1965.

In reply to sudden

I do not think he was faster than either unless it was pre mid-sixties. He was certainly more skillful.
Sabina Park '68 took the newball ahead of both and at the end of the 1st over England were 0/2.
Boycott b Sobers 0 Cowdrey lbw Sobers 0 England ended the evening on 4/17 Hall n Griff taking care of Barrington
and Graveney I think. NB That was immediately after Sobers made 113! Imagine that in WI 1st innings only one man
stood up. A lanky fella named Clive Hubert...! The things that a tiny tot's mind can memba wow!!!

In reply to Dukes
Many thanks for your perspective. I think Murray was saying that Sobie could crank it up and bowl faster than those two guys, but like DonD said, Murray may have caught Hall and Griffith on the back end of their careers ...

In reply to DonD and Brezerk
Interesting stuff about those 1959 an 1968 matches. I hope Hubert sees this thread

In reply to Walco


Not even a video
Wes was fast
Charlie was dangerous with his Bouncers and Yorkers
Gary was a swinging medium pacer.
Anthony Mayers assisted Wes very well, he had someone at the other end who was fast and mean, and built like Oshane Thomas
I saw lots of Charlie, just as mean as Mayers, but more dangerous.
I only saw SirGary playing local cricket once, all other times was for either Barbados or the West Indies
Sir Gary had the same discipline in his bowling as Denis Atkinson, who was the best Seam bowler I have seen.

In reply to Walco

Sobie appears to be faster at the Oval in 1968 than Hall or Griffith true the eyes of the young. In this series Hall look tired.

Griffith was not as fast as Hall, but he had a dangerous bouncer and a wicked yorker.

In reply to openning


you omitted the 3rd pace bowler for Spartan George Rock (RIP).

In reply to tc1
George Rock was a good club cricketer, nothing special.

May I just say that this Forum is blessed beyond measure to have you guys on it, and giving of your vast experience and considered opinions.
This is priceless stuff.

Thank you.

What useless arguments.. pros and cons...
Neither Hall Griffith or Sobie were consistently express .. Hall on occasions would get to 90 plus .. but that was the odd delivery ... Griff never touched 90 and Sobie might get one to about 85 ..
They seemed fast to the puerile eyes .. so does a spinner ..
Hall /Griffith troubled batsmen with bouncers as most could not hook ..
you have had to play this game at a very high level to understand .. express / fast at a consistent level by a bowler ..I was express and fast .. when I delivered the ball .. I consistently was in the batsman face before the ball reached him.. now that is express
Most fast men toil at about 85 ...
Murray made that statement when analysed can be truth to him..

Sobie was hitting the deck with the seam .. the ball would take off faster and quicker and as such felt harder by Murray ..
Compared to Hall and Griff .. the seam was all over the place and it would only take off if it hits the seam .. but would slow if it just hits leather
Seam versus fast .. think about it.. as I said you had to play at a high level to comprehend ..
George Rock was a bad man. He was a good medium fast man

In reply to Halliwell

%100 agree.
These gentlemen keep this site interesting to read.
Had it not B for them, I would have gone a long time back.
Thank you fellas. 🤔🙌

In reply to Brerzerk



Sobie did that numerous times in his career i.e open the bowling and get the opening batsman out for a duck.He did it at least 3 times in test and another 3 or 4 times in Sheffield Shield cricket.I remember Redpath.

1st time Micky Stewart

2nd time Boycott

3rd time Boycott

P.S I checked and it was 5 times 4 matches and included Simpson twice,Lawry,Redpath and a chap named Thomas.He got both Simpson and Thomas for 0 in a match. All these guys played test cricket for Australia.

In reply to openning


Stop, look at his record.

In reply to openning



Charlie Griffith hit Nari Contractor on the head with a bouncer during India's tour to the Caribbean in 1962. The blow fractured Contractor's skull and he underwent emergency surgery to save his life. In fact, a metal plate was put in his head. Interestingly, after 60 years the metal plate was recently removed from Contractor's head as it was causing him problems.

In reply to Fivestar

I heard that Frankie Worrell donated blood for that surgery.

In reply to Dukes
It is documented. That's one of the reason he is revered in India.

In reply to CITYBOY



Was there a speed gun back in those dinosaur era? If not, why would you give mental credence to Murray's assumption?

Was there a speed gun back in those dinosaurs' era?Seems to me this was a tall tail joke!!