Message Board Archives

A poster on Fb wrote that take away Viv superb calendar year of 76 and for the rest of his career he barely avg 45.

how could he be the greatest batsman?

In reply to tc1


Well somewhat incorrect

If he never played that year he would average a respectable 48 but if somehow he played in 76 and average 0 it would be 45

In reply to conman The poster said he had a superb in 76, but after than year he only broke 45.

In reply to tc1

One has to consider oneself lucky to have seen Garry Sobers and Viv Richards when they were at their best.It allows you to fully appreciate just how good they were.Neither of them paid any attention to statistics.
Of course Garry's stats are better than most whereas Viv's is not.

The people who played with and against Viv recognize just how good he was.People who never saw Viv and who know little about cricket and look at statistics only would rate Miandad,Chanderpaul and several other batsmen higher than Viv.

If you remember when I defined great batsmen I included the ability to DOMINATE opposing bowlers.As Ian Chappell said he does not rate Boycott as when Ian was captain he was not worried about Boycott at all because he could not win matches for his team as he batted too slowly.

Imran Khan said that in his entire career, the only batsman he feared was IVA Richards.

Viv averaged 50.24 and minus 1976 his average drops to 45.23but that misses the point.

Sobers averaged 57.78 and minus 1958 it drops to 51.79

To me that is mute. Take away Lara 4 innings that totalled 1000 runs and what will that do to his average..
I don’t like to measure by average .. I rate a test batsman totalling 100 runs in 2 innings in a test versus a 100 in one innings and a single digit in the next ..

In reply to Dukes


Sobers low point was between 1953 and 1957 at the start of his career, Viv low point seems to be after the peak year of 76.

Thanks for your stats.

In reply to tc1

Let me expand some realities a bit more.

There are several ways to dominate bowling attacks.What Viv did was target the opposition's best bowler and manhandled him with strokes to all parts of the ground.Bob Willis of England and Denis Lillee were prime targets.When that approach was successful it left the bowler humiliated and the other bowlers demoralized.Lara on the other hand dominated in a more prolonged and traditional way.He just batted on and on.Surviving the best bowler and punishing the others.He would compensate for his failures with double centuries along with the 375 and 400.
How could Viv dominate when he only scored 3 centuries in a series twice and they were both in 1976 and the only other time he scored more than a single century in a series was against England in the West Indies in 1981?
The answer can be gleaned in 1980 when WI toured England.At Lords Viv made 145 off 159 balls with 25 fours and a six.It was an innings that moved Trevor Bailey to say it reminded him of when he was 12 years old and he was bowling to one of his teachers.In the very next test match Viv targeted Bob Willis and basically stayed at one end and hit him for boundary after boundary resulting in Willis ending up with 14 overs for 99 runs.At the end of the series Viv had only scored one century but the English bowlers had been put through the mill.

In reply to tc1

i don't understand the logic

you're going to take away the man's peak demonstration of who he is...

and then render him lesser ???

When Viv was at the crease bowlers would tremble. That is the effect of a GREAT man

In reply to tc1
You reading nonsense on Facebook and come here asking questions?
They are two batsman, that early in their careers, I heard of greatness, the first was Rohan Kanhai and the other Viv Richards.
I learned about Rohan at Kensington Oval, by fans arguing the better batsman, Sobers or him, I was told in 1985 by someone who has tough me about life, that he was not sure of Viv being great, it took one inning against T&T to convince him.
I was home in 1989 all praise was given to VIV.
I don't have to bisect Weekes, Nurse, Viv and Rohan's stats to know how good/great they were.
I watched plenty Fast Food cricket on Sundays, to understand the present White ball format, but it was watching cricket on Saturdays to give me the liking for Filet Mignon paired with a beautiful Cabernet Sauvignon.

In reply to doosranow duh di "inverse" tell dem tek weh him wuss yr. see what dem get. Stats, Lies, damn lies, cheery-picking and bogus extrapolation

This was a comment made by a fb poster, I did not follow cricket during the Viv Richards era as I was forcible removal from my island Paradise and sent to the concrete jungle.

I then proceed to ask the Dr. if there is' sometin about Viv'.

In reply to openning

In reply to openning


The poster is a very knowledgeable cricket fan and comes from a family that had brothers who represented Empire and Bim. He himself represented Bim school team and Empire for a brief time.

He pointed out a fact as the Dr. confirmed that Viv's superb year was 1976 and he only avg 46 for the rest of his career. He did not comment on Viv's batsmanship.

In reply to Narper

Did you read the question, you cunt.

In reply to tc1

Methinks someone is very tetchy today…. Try to keep it civil!

In reply to netgrouchy

I try, but when guys command of the english language fall below standard it hard to be civil.
We have many imposters that post here, they never donned a pair of pads.

Let us take away Marlon's two T20 World Champs final knocks and see what WI has in the trophy cupboard! Remember Marlon didn't do anything leading up to those finals. When 'ah was a bway; I was lucky to see two
test tons from the bat of R.B.Kanhai 'The Great Babu. On both occasions, 157 n.o. vs. India ('71)following on and a ton vs. Oz ('73) in partnership with M.L.C. Foster you could see that all mattered to the genius was the state of the match during that innings. In '71 he batted as if his life depended on it, almost smelling the ball in defence to the spinners. He kept them off balance by attacking anything that even hinted at being loose. When the match was secure he treated us to the 'fall-dung' shot. In '73 The skipper strode out after both Rowe n Kalli fell quickly after a good partnership. He joined Fos, memory says both were on 0. He talked Fos through the rebuilding phase and on to his only test ton. When both were settled in Jeff Hammond made the error of bowling into Fos' pads thrice in a row and all 3 sped to the fence with a simple flick of the wrist.
The Great Babu sensing vulnerability and deciding I can hit 3 consecutive fours too launched into Tangle-foot Walker and carted him to three different parts of the ground. Dukes is right that man cared not about stats. He cared more about WI not losing and his genius made him do things that only God's deserve to watch. The story of how he greeted Bedi's 1st over in test cricket is evidence enough.


I wrote the above all from memory, I then checked the scorecard. Kanhai did not make a ton he was out for 84. Apologies

And while we are at it..can we also take away Mortons 32ball duck..

In reply to tc1
It is my view, the three greatest batsmen we've produced are Sobers, Richards and Lara. Everyone from the Caribbean seems to agree Sobers was great. However, many seem to have doubts about Richards and Lara being great.

In reply to Fivestar


My friend never said Viv was not great, he said he had a superb year of 1976 and after that peak year he avg 46.
I asked Dukes if these numbers were accurate, and he said they were.
-

In reply to pooranian
0-0=??? Doosra mentioned the best not the worst

In reply to tc1

Your friend pointed out Viv only averaged 46 after having one good year. Was he suggesting Viv was a great batsman?

In reply to Fivestar

i cant see the issue here. is what being reported a fact or not?

In reply to Fivestar


he is stating that Viv was not the greatest batman as he had only a superb year of 76, and only avg 46 for the rest of his career.

By the way Sudden the guy started at Cawmere, but moves to Kolij at ten.

In reply to Brerzerk

pooranman eh realise yuh cyah get wussa than wussa if yuh tek way zero

In reply to doosra

That's the point

In reply to sudden
The issue is was Viv Richards a great batsman. I say yes.

In reply to Fivestar

Issue? What issue!!!
Richards was named one of the 5 greatest cricketers of the 20th century by Wisden.!!!!!
Only 3 batsmen were included Bradman, Sobers and Richards.
This is a Non-issue.

In reply to Fivestar

that was never the issue as i understand it

In reply to Dukes
An' dem neva even credit GSt.AS with ROTHW stats nor IVA with Packer's. Just imagine if they did!

In reply to Dukes
An' dem neva even credit GSt.AS with ROTHW stats nor IVA with Packer's. Just imagine if they did!

In reply to Brerzerk

I was in England in 1970 with my parents when he made 183 and took 6-21 in the first test for ROW vs England..The context was that the press were talking about how Eddie Barlow was rivaling Sobie as the best all-rounder win the world.That match settled and silenced that discussion.

In reply to Dukes

Holding once said on a flat deck he definitely didn’t want to bowl at Gavaskar; He went on to say that on any wicket that man was IVA;

The fact of the matter is that some bat to pad their stats but Viv was never one of those. I never saw Sobie at his best in the flesh, but jeez wiz that Viv was something live.

The great Ali lost 5 professional fights. Losses do not deflect his greatness. He fought the very best every time, and some more than once, win, lose or draw.

In reply to Dukes

Sobers was cricket in his time. Could and would bat in any situation with any player that wanted to stick around. Seems like he actually thought fellas to bat while he was out there with them. In later years batted lower in the order he batted 136 times and avg. 60.10 at #5,6 and 7.

In reply to seaegg99

The effect of Sobers on Holford,Hall and Griffith as batsmen is awesome.Those guys suddenly became accomplished batsmen when Sobie was at the other end.To show that Sobie was human he had no impact on Gibbs and as a result he was stranded on 95* thus preventing him from accomplishing a century in each innings twice in tests.

In reply to Brerzerk

Sobie at his best

In reply to Dukes


It seems like the great One always had another gear and sometimes toyed with the opposition.

Didn’t Viv scored 4 X 100 and 4 X 50 and averaged 55+ in WSC playing against the world’s best in DK Lillee, Imran Khan et all???
I think most of us have forgotten about that!

In reply to pooranian

In reply to Fivestar

The concentration required to even get to a double century, puts Lara's greatness on a different level, more recent than Viv, with discernible proof.

However, if you read the biography of other great players you will not finish the book with the same opinion you once had of the man. Opposition players, captains, umpires, fans all held him in exaltation. What Lara had in concentration, Viv had in confidence and swagger.

In reply to Dukes

I think it was 1984 Gordon Greenidge topped the rankings, then an Australian, a Pakistani and Richards fourth. The England captain said as far as he and the cricket world is concern, the greatest batsman in the world was ranked number four.