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So if the local music is what makes our young men

 
Chrissy 2022-08-22 16:24:21 

so violent, would someone explain to me how dem Europeans and Brits murdered and continue to dem one another and anyone else in dem way fi millennia?

 
openning 2022-08-22 16:27:36 

In reply to Chrissy
So music not playing in Europe?

lol

 
Chrissy 2022-08-22 16:38:41 

In reply to openning
Added local

lol lol wink wink

 
nitro 2022-08-22 19:51:33 

In reply to Chrissy

The music does not make one a bad or good person. Like the spoken or written word it does cement the way one thinks and acts.

I invite you to any of the KFC outlets in western Jamaica on a Friday evening and note the music being played in the 'scammer corner' of the parking lots.

 
Chrissy 2022-08-22 21:51:08 

In reply to nitro
Bro you will never see me in A KFC parking lot

lol

 
nitro 2022-08-22 22:10:13 

In reply to Chrissy

lol lol lol

Good for you lol

 
black 2022-08-22 22:26:55 

In reply to Chrissy

Bro you will never see me in A KFC parking lot


Get you ah 4 piece original recipe with 2 biscuits and gravy and you'll be hooked for life. lol

 
Brerzerk 2022-08-22 22:36:52 


Toni Morrison 'did seh' and with credibility backa it that 'Language is Violence' but the murders is way past that reason.

 
Jumpstart 2022-08-22 22:44:13 

In reply to Chrissy

have to disagree hear chrissy. Violent music is not the only contributing factor to gun violence in the caribbean.......but it cannot be underestimated as a factor. The fact is much of mid 90s to present dancehall and most of rap music after 1990 glorifies violence. I don't buy the ghetto reporter argument because in those songs, many times the singer assumes the role of the murderer. Britain and france are probably the only countries in western europe that could be said to have high crime rates. Austria and Belgium are extremely safe places for example. I mean, i walked out 1:00 in the morning in those places and didn't feel unsafe at all. Also......when calypso, jazz and reggae dominated the airwaves, I can guarantee you our states were not as crime ridden as they are. West indians in general don't recognize how powerful a force culture is whether for good or bad

 
Chrissy 2022-08-23 00:00:52 

In reply to Jumpstart
You have completely missed my point.
Classical music evolved across Europe as they killed one another(including their own wives, children and other relatives and anyone else in the way) for power.

For the record I detest most of the crap parading as music in our region today.

 
michaelmax 2022-08-23 00:16:39 

In reply to Chrissy

Yep. There has never been any empirical data quantitative, qualitative or mixed to suggest a relationship between music and violence but it continues to be repeated.
I would argue that music all over has seen a drastic decline in quality as their really is a lack of decent lyricists.
Much of American new rap etc is just as crappy as much of our newer music.
There is no story anymore just unsubtle sexual lyrics and repetitiveness.
Most of this will not remembered decades from now.

 
Chrissy 2022-08-23 00:52:46 

In reply to michaelmax
Correct is right

 
nitro 2022-08-23 02:50:07 

In reply to michaelmax

We can bury our heads in the sand and hope for governments to find some magical strategy to fight crime whilst ignoring the causes of deviant behavor in our society.

This type of music with such crass language should not be part of a society already lacking in good values and attitude.

 
Brerzerk 2022-08-23 03:36:08 

[b]In reply to nitro[/b
It is the lyrics not the music. Listen to these two one after the other and feel the different vibes...same music but two fiffernet lyrics. 'BOOM BYE BI' and then 'FLEX...TIME TO HAVE SEX' seriously just do it as a test.

 
nitro 2022-08-23 11:55:12 

In reply to Brerzerk

I love good dancehall music bro. Just think the artists who create the gun and scammer music should be banned and charged going forward.

 
Chrissy 2022-08-23 11:55:19 

In reply to nitro

When the business class, politicians and their cronies stop looting the state, we may find the funds for genuine social problems.

 
nitro 2022-08-23 12:20:16 

In reply to Chrissy


When the business class, politicians and their cronies stop looting the state, we may find the funds for genuine social problems
.

I have said that here many times even recently. I stated that we need a leader who will deal strongly with both government and corporate cronyism and raping of the coffers. I went on to state that we will not get this from the current leader.

We absolutely need to fix the social issues. We do not need to create the wheel. Singapore and others have given us the blue print. We just lack great leaders who will put the country before party.

 
Jumpstart 2022-08-23 14:55:08 

In reply to Chrissy

You have completely missed my point.
Classical music evolved across Europe as they killed one another(including their own wives, children and other relatives and anyone else in the way) for power.

For the record I detest most of the crap parading as music in our region today.

err....i don't know about that. Classical music evolved from already existing folk forms. Beethoven was born just out of the European renaissance, Tchaikovsky was born in the afterglow of Catherine the Great's "Enlightenment" and all of these have a connection to the Crusades. The inspiration for these works were not violence or an oppressed condition. It just like the classical music of India and Mali in West Africa, the inspiration was primarily to entertain an expanding middle class(nobles, traders, scholars, businessmen etc) who could afford to have musicians come to their homes and play for them. In parts OF Mali and India, hereditary musicians still perform a similar function . With the violent music of the 80s and 90s, the inspiration is not in the musician perfecting and developing those said folk forms but on the things that unfortunately happen in the communities in which these guys reside and a monetizing the rebelliousness is the end product. There are exceptions like Bob Marley and Rafael Sadique, who deliberately does not sing about his troubled childhood in Oakland, California.

 
Chrissy 2022-08-23 15:29:28 

In reply to nitro
Singapore is no blueprint for people who believe in democracy.

 
michaelmax 2022-08-23 17:31:51 

You forgot to remind him that aside from the non democratic aspects Lee Kwan Yew's blueprint was Michael Manley.

 
Chrissy 2022-08-23 18:15:01 

In reply to michaelmax
If only Michael had a Vietnam war to fund it.

wink

 
nitro 2022-08-23 18:36:53 

In reply to michaelmax

I do respect Manley as a leader. I have been reading.

 
michaelmax 2022-08-23 18:38:04 

In reply to Chrissy

Alas. Sigh.Sad. I am just always intrigued why Singapore is always the go to about moving Jamaica forward.

 
nitro 2022-08-23 18:50:58 

Last time I check Singapore was flourishing economically with a low crime rate.

 
JOJO 2022-08-23 18:58:52 

In reply to Jumpstart

have to disagree hear chrissy. Violent music is not the only contributing factor to gun violence in the caribbean.......but it cannot be underestimated as a factor. The fact is much of mid 90s to present dancehall and most of rap music after 1990 glorifies violence.


The music is a reflection of society. Artistes sing and write about what is around them. Crime is related to economics and (age) demographics. When crime and violence increase, the lyrics reflect the violence.

Britain and france are probably the only countries in western europe that could be said to have high crime rates. Austria and Belgium


Are you suggesting that young people in Belgium do not listen to the same lyrics?

 
Jumpstart 2022-08-23 19:11:17 

In reply to JOJO

The music is a reflection of society. Artistes sing and write about what is around them. Crime is related to economics and (age) demographics. When crime and violence increase, the lyrics reflect the violence.

bob marley grew up in trenchtown and i never heard him write about blowing a man to smithereens......we all know i shot the sheriff is metaphorical

 
Jumpstart 2022-08-23 19:13:54 

In reply to JOJO

i can guarantee many of them don't. I went to a four record shops in belgium and I saw guys as young as 15 buying Miles Davis records(i actually had to almost fight with one who wanted a bill evans vinyl that i had reached first to and which he wanted). Not saying no.....but the musical palate of the average belgian is not a heaping et of gangster rap and dancehall. I can guarantee you that. It barely plays even on their radio

 
BeatDball 2022-08-23 19:25:27 

From 2200 homicides a year to 500+ in a population of 8 million! That's what mayor Giuliani did. No double talk; no pontificating
Just a targeted & relentless enforcement of the laws. But, I will say again, socialists cannot, Keep it Simple; they have no clue on law enforcement. They just talk a good talk to get elected. Mih done. Yuh hear, mih done!

evil

 
JOJO 2022-08-23 19:25:33 

In reply to Jumpstart

bob marley grew up in trenchtown and i never heard him write about blowing a man to smithereens......we all know i shot the sheriff is metaphorical


I don’t see how that negates the point that I was making. The fact that the artistes live in a society of crime and violence, does not mean that EVERY artiste will sing about it every time. BTW, Marley did sing about what was happening around him—the poverty; the injustice; the tribalism.

 
Jumpstart 2022-08-23 19:32:51 

In reply to JOJO

indeed he did but he didn't sing about personally pumping his rivals full of bullets as many rap and dancehall artists have done. As i said, the whole ghetto reporter business becomes irrelevant when the singer assumes the role in his songs of the criminal. Then he isn't just observing the bandit, he's imitating him

 
nitro 2022-08-23 20:32:41 

In reply to Jumpstart

Straight talk that.

It is striking how UWI invited the nasty mouth Kartel to lecture at UWI but they ignore an uplifting artist like Chronix.

 
Jumpstart 2022-08-23 23:33:17 

In reply to nitro

exactly....cuz UWI full of posers and pseudo-intellectuals.....chrissy and the old generation of Caribbean scholars have either retired or died...men like norman girvan, selwyn ryan etc. That generation gone. Is just ah set of young ppl who aimlessly rebellious, rell good at cramming for exams and willing to be swept along by every single current that emanates from universities in the north, no matter how fleeting those winds are

 
michaelmax 2022-08-23 23:42:17 

In reply to nitro
First and foremost UWI the institution did NOT invite Kartel. Dr. Carolyn Cooper DID. Chrissy stated on this message board her discomfort but recognized the concept of ACADEMIC FREEDOM. This means academica have broad freedom in their pursuits even if one disagrees with them. Let all ideas contend and Universities are supposed to be places that cultivate a range of ideas within reason. Of course on the latter point your mileage may vary.

However censorship tends to lead down a very slippery slope. You may wish to censor content that may be lewd, nasty,violent etc(and this is can be reasonable in spaces accessible to all ie public radio, broadcast TV) but others may wish to censor other ideas eg. Religious , Atheistic or Agnostic or Political or Economic or Social. Who gets to decide what is acceptable speech in certain contexts. Certain themes are obvious and may have broad agreement on the need to censor those eg racism but others you run into dangerous territory and slide into authoritarianism.

 
michaelmax 2022-08-23 23:49:35 

In reply to Jumpstart
I would be careful with sweeping generalizations which are more than likely untrue. UWI continues to produce good scholarship. I cannot speak to the scholarship generally out of the Faculty of Social Sciences as my current studies are located within the Faculty of Humanities and Education but I would not generalize as I am sure their remains quality scholarship in that Faculty.
I am aslo very much aware of the work being done my fellow graduate students at the MPhil and PhD levels in the School of Education(which counts as a social science interestingly). So let us be careful of overgeneralizations based on our views

 
Jumpstart 2022-08-24 00:10:20 

In reply to michaelmax

Talking from Experience chief......i know MPhil students in International relations who don't know who Ralph Gonsalves is, the most vocal of all the Caricom prime ministers. I didn't say all UWI scholars were mindless crammers.....a great portion are, and that is undeniable, but I didn't say all. Which is why i used the word pseudo-intellectuals.....passing an exam doesn't make you an intellectual

 
Jumpstart 2022-08-24 00:10:23 

In reply to michaelmax

Talking from Experience chief......i know MPhil students in International relations who don't know who Ralph Gonsalves is, the most vocal of all the Caricom prime ministers. I didn't say all UWI scholars were mindless crammers.....a great portion are, and that is undeniable, but I didn't say all.

 
nitro 2022-08-24 00:10:52 

In reply to michaelmax

ACADEMIC FREEDOM


With freedom comes responsibility. We see how the words of the former USA president have given life to low lifes so too does violent dancehall music, gangsta rap, drill music etc that promote and normalizes violence.

Words matter.

 
Jumpstart 2022-08-24 00:17:39 

In reply to nitro
people forget that.

 
Jumpstart 2022-08-24 00:21:57 

In reply to michaelmax

Certain themes are obvious and may have broad agreement on the need to censor those eg racism but others you run into dangerous territory and slide into authoritarianism.

But so too should content with overly violent themes. Gun violence is a bigger threat to most of the Caribbean societies than racism. TTO is a notable exception. Racism is a huge threat to our stability as a country . That is a fact

 
BeatDball 2022-08-24 00:31:00 

In reply to Jumpstart The socialist oriented minds cannot deal with FACTS! Likkle more.

 
nitro 2022-08-24 01:24:49 

Engagement with violent genres of music has also been linked with emotional and behavioral problems, including aggressive behaviors and drug and alcohol use (Chen, Miller, Grube, & Waiters, 2006; Selfhout, Delsing, ter Bogt, & Meeus, 200cool. Indeed, there is an extensive body of research on media violence that suggests that high exposure to violent media, including video games with violent and antisocial content, is associated with aggression, substance abuse, early sexual behaviors, misogynist attitudes, and suicide (Gentile, 2014; Warburton & Braunstein, 2012). Some of this evidence comes from experiments involving random assignment of participants to conditions of violent and nonviolent media exposure, permitting researchers to argue that exposure to violent media causes an increase in aggression (Anderson et al., 2010). However, most evidence concerning the psychological and behavioral effects of media violence is correlational, restricting the kind of inferences that can be drawn. At least some of the associations between media violence and aggression reported in the literature can be explained by the fact that individuals with preexisting problems of aggression find pleasure or comfort in listening to violent music. Engagement with violent music may be a way for individuals who are already experiencing anger and other difficult emotions to process their feelings.


A good read on this topic is Who enjoys listening to violent music and why? By: Thompson, William Forde, Geeves, Andrew M., Olsen, Kirk N., Psychology of Popular Media Culture, 21604134, 20190701, Vol. 8, Issue 3

 
Chrissy 2022-08-24 02:24:48 

In reply to nitro
UWI didn't invite Kartel to UWI - a lecturer at UWI invited him.

 
Brerzerk 2022-08-24 03:30:19 

In reply to michaelmax
Two Words-Mutty Perkins. Harp sup'n over airwaves long enough and it becomes gospel ala opiate for the people.
You think all those Iranians who supported them men who opposed the Shah glad they did? Man Lives by Bread Alone (Only)When There Is No Bread!!

 
michaelmax 2022-08-24 04:24:29 

In reply to nitro

You do understand that correlation is not causation?

 
michaelmax 2022-08-24 04:34:48 

In reply to Jumpstart

You do understand that a PhD is not passing an exam in the traditional sense right? It is producing INDEPENDENT research which contributes to knowledge in the disciplinary area through some new twist built on previous work. Of course one's discipline and topic will determine those whom one would have read. Some topics will have a narrower frame so it may limited to people in your own area whereas others will lead to broader reading crossing disciplinary boundaries.This research is done using quantitative(including experimental,quasi-exoerimental etc, qualitative or mixed methods dependent upon the

UWI structure is MPhil upgrade to PhD or stop at the MPhil and DEFEND orally the written dissertation. The defence is the EXAM. It is not something you go and sit for 2hours and then you are done. Again I speak to what I know and you choose to behave in such an unseemly fashion to defend your point of view. Challenge the argument not the person.

 
michaelmax 2022-08-24 04:35:27 

In reply to Chrissy
Which is exactly what I said to him.

 
michaelmax 2022-08-24 04:44:24 

In reply to Brerzerk
Yep. I have noted it has become quite fashionable in this back room for some to attack and denigrate the English speaking Caribbean's premier university. Poor scholarship exists everywhere. Controversial lecturers exist everywhere but take the smallest grouping and use that as a broad brush.

UWI has hosted many events/town halls on a broad range of issues ranging from the economy, to education, to health care etc but ONE lecturer does something controversial and the institution is in total disrepair and then you get the backtracking " I didn't say all" despite making general statements.

 
michaelmax 2022-08-24 04:51:15 

In reply to Jumpstart
Please note that with Trump it is not just that the rhetoric is violent but it is pumped into the public sphere through media and Trump events.

Violent music should not be in the public sphere such as broadcast media and public radio.

It should be noted however that violent music tends to glorify violence while Trump's rhetoric doesn't just glorify it but literally incites it. Doesn't make either right and but there is a difference.

 
nitro 2022-08-24 13:23:25 

In reply to michaelmax

It should be noted however that violent music tends to glorify violence while Trump's rhetoric doesn't just glorify it but literally incites it.


Seriously? The music does not incite violence?

Boom Bye Bye – Buju Banton

[Chorus]
It's like boom bye bye inna batty bwoy head
Rude bwoy nah promote no nasty man, dem haffi dead
Boom bye bye inna batty bwoy head
Rude bwoy nah promote no nasty man, dem haffi dead

Warn Them – Mavado

“When this squeeze it leff Addi head at ease
Him flat like banana leaf
Mumma bawl please, to how mi evil she cyaa believe
See mi crime and cya believe
Inna middle day, him gang up wid di fish fi get pay
Neva know, so mi AK stay
Addi head buss like bomb bay
Kill dat inna Church when di pastor ah pray
Murder yuh likkle bredda pon di funeral day
Cut di newborn throat cause yuh know mi nuh-
Yuh body float like boat when di seed tek away
B*******e talk straight mek di war set a way
Addi, plus, there is no getaway
Mi a b********t killa and yuh know mi nuh stray…”

Psycho – Tommy Lee Sparta

“Buss bwoy head a dem gate daily
In front pastor, school pickney
Try don’t mek yuh luck guh run out
When di demonz come out fi yuh
Soul weh di devil send fi
Rafe a di worse ting yuh will see
Woii dem set duppy pon me
Buss shot inna head arrogantly
Fool”



Gvnman Shift – Skeng

“Listen up
War dem waah tell dem get di tanker
Every guns up, every killa mask up
Travel pon dem endz ’bout dozen claat up
Dozen man haffi dead a weh yuh feel mi lef’ some
No sah yuh mussi mad, mi killa dem nuh work suh
Banger dem a drop food thru Wells Fargo
And a buy bey gun fi anything start up
Fully dark, fully charge and fully crawb up”

Don’t Play With Me – Squash

“Nuh body cyaan run, mi nuh tump out
Buss it inna mouth, teeth jump out
Blood ah run cold, eye open wide out
Disarm di clown, him d’even have a clip load (Four bullet)
Inna him bdct head, mi drop a big stone
Nuh run from di 5-0, psycho
Press di micro, everyting strike out
Run wanted and mi nah hideout
G-City badness, mi nuh lie ’bout, inna bush dem find clown”

Squeeze – Masicka

“Yuh nah kill nobody that a lie py stop the noise
Heart cold like happy ice
Cou the shatty size
Shallow grave man a drop in a it
Better watch e hype
Cyah be nuh genna wid yuh py appetite
Pull up! and a knock it right at the traffic light
Brawling have it in a day strap inna the night
Some p***y only bad when dem a chat inna the mic

Badman a step – Aidonia

“Yo, when bad man ah step, we nuh bring machete
You f****t, me rise gun from St. Elizabeth
Badman full head ah shot and crack it
Hole inna head big like egg wey nuh hatch yet
Walk down pon him and slap it up, and me ah knock it
Waste out the clip and all the spare inna me pocket
Catch dem hang out like clothes inna closet
Three piece each inna head unnu ah get
Dat unu ah go get, clap it pon a budget
You hungry fi bullet, nyam it like a nugget
Unnu get, get twenty-one piece like a bucket…”

Kill Dem – Vybz Kartel

“Coof cuff cueff
Bwoy ah choke inna blood
Body stiff like it ah float inna flood
Don’t come inna Waterford wid a slug
Gaza rise di rifle weh soak inna mud
Wen mi ah war, memba seh noweh no deh far
Glot inna mi Jansport, mi dress up inna khaki
Like di seed ah Calabar
Don’t grab yuh gal, mi follow har
Wen she go pick up yuh little bwoy
Like scarface wid di bomb me drive behind har
Him neva dweet but me nuh care who inna di car…”

 
nitro 2022-08-24 13:23:55 

In reply to Chrissy

Noted. I take that back.

 
nitro 2022-08-24 13:27:21 

In reply to michaelmax

Are night clubs, stadiums etc. considered a public space?
Is this MB a public space?

 
Jumpstart 2022-08-24 13:33:03 

In reply to michaelmax

You do understand that a PhD is not passing an exam in the traditional sense right? It is producing INDEPENDENT research which contributes to knowledge in the disciplinary area through some new twist built on previous work. Of course one's discipline and topic will determine those whom one would have read. Some topics will have a narrower frame so it may limited to people in your own area whereas others will lead to broader reading crossing disciplinary boundaries.This research is done using quantitative(including experimental,quasi-exoerimental etc, qualitative or mixed methods dependent upon the

you do understand that if you're studying international relations.....and you have to do a research paper, or prove a hypothesis, such as the achievability of the UN sustainable development goals, it would actually be advantageous, need i say crucial, to at least be aware of some of the policy makers around. I'm no genius but I think that is common sense, especially in a subject matter that requires you to at least be aware of global developments

 
nitro 2022-08-24 13:40:12 

Warn Them – Mavado

"Kill dat inna Church when di pastor ah pray"
Link Text


Psycho – Tommy Lee Sparta

“Buss bwoy head a dem gate daily
In front pastor, school pickney"
Link Text

Don’t Play With Me – Squash
"G-City badness, mi nuh lie ’bout, inna bush dem find clown”
Link Text

Squeeze – Masicka

"Pull up! and a knock it right at the traffic light"

Link Text

 
Chrissy 2022-08-24 14:46:24 

Baa baa black sheep
Have you any wool

such uplifting lyrics

 
JOJO 2022-08-24 15:07:41 

In reply to nitro

I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die
Folsom Prison Blues, Johnny Cash.

I don’t listen to much country but I love Cash. BTW, that song has been performed by multiple other singers.

Another one for you: The night the lights went out in Georgia.

And his cheating wife had never left town
That's one body that'll never be found
You see little sister don't miss when she aims her gun


Music reflects society. Artistes reflect the life around them. Some good, some bad. But it is the life. Their experience. We may not like the music but I think it is nonsense to blame artistes for the ills of society.

 
nitro 2022-08-24 15:35:24 

In reply to JOJO
Sure, keep fooling ourselves.

Jamaicans are unwilling to make the tough decisions.

 
Scar 2022-08-24 17:38:52 

In reply to JOJO But aren't both songs also reflecting the price you pay for such actions?

 
michaelmax 2022-08-24 18:10:40 

In reply to nitro

A nightclub is NOT a public space INMHO. They are private facilities which one has to pay to enter. You can CHOOSE not to go.

This MB is public in that it is free and open to all and anyone could come across the board even by accident so free social media entities are public in my view.

You cannot compare stadia with nightclubs and stadia are sort of public as some are government owned and by their very nature are designed to seat a large portion of the public.

 
michaelmax 2022-08-24 18:11:41 

In reply to Jumpstart
I am done engaging with you. I have said my piece and your continued aggression is tiring.

 
nitro 2022-08-24 20:18:39 

In reply to michaelmax

Bro, I just want Jamaica to be the best it can be. Tired of seeing the suffering and no justice for the people.

 
BeatDball 2022-08-24 21:37:48 

In reply to nitro Nitro, my bwoy...post independence, there was this zeal for the fallacious ideology to be the elixir...up to this day, they are still blinded by the farce. We have to stop trying to look good in terms of governing by being Democratic for Her Majesty, the Queen & Uncle Sam (Demoncraps) & try the Singaporean way! All our people need are public order & safety! LKY said, physical & economic security. I like to KISS - Keep it Simple Sah...all the average bloke need are a decent job where he can put food on the table, put a likkle in a $avings account; not hassled by civil servants for a bribe, etc!
Of course, they, who are at the top has to set the tone. Claire Ronstant of TT observed that nobloody is ever fined or imprisoned for corruption...with that, one would think then, that all is well - NOT! That is the irony - everyone (govt ministers) are doing a fine job, yet people are galloping out of the region!

 
ray 2022-08-25 12:59:16 

Chrissy
Listening to all that classical music will make me wanna kill someone lol lol

 
Chrissy 2022-08-25 15:07:13 

In reply to ray

ROFL lol lol
I like some of it

 
pelon 2022-08-25 15:19:15 

If we accept that propaganda *can* and has been used to incite violence, then we can conclude that media in any form *can* be used to promote violence.

That is a basic, pragmatic tenant that forms my opinion on this subject.