Caribbean resources should have given higher standard of living

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link Castled Joined: Aug 20, 2022
Posts: 189
9/20/22, 10:36:39 PM 
In reply to Slipfeeler /Ray123

Bim is slipping..

Top 4 English speaking Caribbean states on HDI
55 Bahamas

57 Trinidad and Tobago

68 Grenada

70 Barbados


Wasn't Barbados Number One in the recent past?

link Curtis Joined: Dec 3, 2002
Posts: 14216
9/20/22, 10:51:20 PM 
In reply to Jumpstart

Unfortunately, we're not on the same page. The Guyanese diaspora and their immediate offspring number close to 350,000 worldwide, while the local population is pegged optimistically at 700,000 which is exxagerated. For you to say no brain drain means you are only familiar with those that fled for economic opportunities in the late 70's, 80's and 90's, high percentage working class.

Prior to that, Caribbean banking, including Trinidad, was enriched by Guyanese bankers trained at home and exported by banks such as RBC. Guyana was the banking Centre of the Caribbean, with an educated class to support that.

Politics of Race in GT is an unfortunate byproduct of political ambition and economic system choices, where the two dominant party leaders were once in the same party, with the same ideological lean, towards Socialism.

The fracture of separation resulted in violence and deep scars, like which exists everywhere the British were once colonizers of. Trinidad may not have experienced the political violence like Guyana but that's primarily because the level of involvement of outside agitators was much less.

link Jumpstart Joined: Nov 29, 2017
Posts: 5972
9/21/22, 6:18:10 AM 
In reply to Curtis

. Prior to that, Caribbean banking, including Trinidad, was enriched by Guyanese bankers trained at home and exported by banks such as RBC. Guyana was the banking Centre of the Caribbean, with an educated class to support that.


Incorrect again. There are some Guyanese businessmen who’ve come to Trinidad and been successful I admit. But hoss, what has made TTO successful after the come down of the 70s oil boom(following the Yom Kippur embargo) was the fact that our natural gas fields were monetized in 1993/94. By 2001 natural gas was out leading export. Until 2008, we were the leading supplier of urea and fertilizers, eventually passed by Algeria. Trinidad’s biggest error was introducing so many transfers and subsidies, over 300 billion in the past twelve years, which thankfully is being rectified

. The fracture of separation resulted in violence and deep scars, like which exists everywhere the British were once colonizers of. Trinidad may not have experienced the political violence like Guyana but that's primarily because the level of involvement of outside agitators was much less.

You’re making it sound as if that by accident and not by design. The difference between Dr Williams and Michael Manley, Cheddi Jaggan and Burnham was that Williams was skillful enough to guide his country through the waters of the Cold War without pissing off either side and generally maintaining strict neutrality on this issue. While the previous three were young, vibrant and angry men out of university, Williams was a seasoned intellectual who realized the world wasn’t as black and white as the Cold War made it seem .So instead of holding over nationalization of industries as a threat and big stick, he waited for companies, such as Texaco to pull out and then bought their shares, forming Trintoc, which became Petrotrin in the late 80s.

link Barry Joined: Jun 19, 2019
Posts: 11330
9/21/22, 8:18:54 AM 
In reply to Curtis

Okay this is not about Trinidad and Guyana- I own property in both. Prior to the discovery, Guyana enriched the TT banking sector? Really? Anyway, you still need economics 101 because Trinidad has developed a service and manufacturing sector which envy cannot erase. As we learn from Singapore a country can earn by providing services… that may happen in the future Caribbean so Guyanese wealth may enhance others… surprised

link velo Joined: Jul 28, 2019
Posts: 1916
9/21/22, 10:33:14 AM 
there is no way that trinadad or grenada are above barbados on the human development index with that crime situation
trinidad is rated at 67

https://www.factsinstitute.com/ranking/human-development-index/

link Slipfeeler Joined: Dec 21, 2015
Posts: 6033
9/21/22, 10:57:56 AM 
In reply to Jumpstart

Thank you my brother, that’s was my simple and consistent argument throughout this discourse, that, “they have no reason to be as poor as they are.”

link Jumpstart Joined: Nov 29, 2017
Posts: 5972
9/21/22, 10:58:40 AM 
In reply to velo

yeah well governing barbados and governing Trinidad is not exactly the same thing eh.......barbados for the most part is one type of people. Whereas in TTO , two races are almost evenly split , with about 20% of that mixed and smaller ethnicities like the Chinese, Lebanese, Portuguese etc. That in itself is a challenge to development

link Halliwell Joined: May 13, 2005
Posts: 19067
9/21/22, 11:02:52 AM 
In reply to Jumpstart

It’s a challenge because politicians have decided it’s more expedient to foster that division narrative, and deal with the fallout.

link Jumpstart Joined: Nov 29, 2017
Posts: 5972
9/21/22, 11:13:26 AM 
In reply to Halliwell

not that easy my friend......look at the countries with similar demographics to TTO....the fijis, the surinames, the guyanas of this word and you will see the same tensions, but amplified twenty times more. Politics and democracy by nature are divisive. When you go to an election, and two parties are vying for rulership, one party is going to miss out. When those political organizations have the added load of race, then people take that to mean that their ethnicity is going to miss out on the state largess and its benefits, whether it is so or not

Which is why when i travel, i always tell my friends that TTO has the best race relations in the world.......its regressing as it is in every part of the world....but given the makeup of our society on two very small pieces of land, the possibility of serious ethnic hatred has not been realized. In fact, a significant amount of inter-ethnic solidarity has been achieved, which i honestly think is unprecedented anywhere in the world. Just look at cricket and you will see almost every race of humankind sitting next to each other

link Slipfeeler Joined: Dec 21, 2015
Posts: 6033
9/21/22, 11:38:58 AM 
In reply to Curtis

I can attest to your argument for I personally know at least two Guyanese-Canadian Bank Managers who left their lofty positions in Canada and return to Guyana to manage banks there.

link Halliwell Joined: May 13, 2005
Posts: 19067
9/21/22, 11:48:07 AM 
In reply to Jumpstart

But Mauritius don’t have that kinda division…as far as I know…
Remember Rwanda had worse with the division lines drawn on something else…
All divisions carry a choice to exploit or not - Trinis of 60 years ago will tell you those divisions weren’t as pronounced in their time

link Jumpstart Joined: Nov 29, 2017
Posts: 5972
9/21/22, 11:52:24 AM 
In reply to Halliwell

Mauritius has a dominant race my friend. Mauritians of Indian origin are 56% of the population....those of African or creole origin make up only 37%

All divisions carry a choice to exploit or not - Trinis of 60 years ago will tell you those divisions weren’t as pronounced in their time

i agree with you.....which is why i said its regressing.....but with the knowledge that race relations and ethnic relations everywhere are regressing......social media has allowed hatred to become airborne. I mean look all over the world....in ethiopia with the tigrays oromos and amharics......look at india with muslims and hindus......buddhists and muslims in myanmar, sudanese, ethiopians and egyptians tensions over the nile, anti-immigrant sentiments in europe....its everywhere man

link Halliwell Joined: May 13, 2005
Posts: 19067
9/21/22, 12:00:56 PM 
In reply to Jumpstart

Yep, thanks

link velo Joined: Jul 28, 2019
Posts: 1916
9/21/22, 12:25:09 PM 
In reply to Jumpstart
i don't pretend to know the intricacies of trinidad you would know more than i.

link Jumpstart Joined: Nov 29, 2017
Posts: 5972
9/21/22, 12:37:49 PM 
In reply to velo

its a complicated place....honestly, if barbados had trinidad resources they would have been in a better place than us. They're extremely organized and generally the rule of law pervades. Trinidad, possibly because we're so multi-ethnic is one lawless place. if yuh have a fridge that doh work, yuh throw it in the river and blame gortt when the river overflows......yuh have free education nursery to secondary, and tertiary if you're really poor and yuh doh do nuthing and you blame the gortt for your destitution. Yuh have boyfriends in secondary school and you get pregnant and have to drop out, blame the state. Even the way we've accepted the violent style of dancehall music now as if we didn't have a choice in whether we'd listen to it or not......a style of music the SSA(one of our crime fighting agencies) says is a recruiting tool for gangs in a report laid in parliament. Wanting everything free but paying next to nothing in taxes. Today, its always me, myself and I and that explains partly the degradation of the society. I does only bash bajans when it comes to cricket. There is a great deal to admire about their society and how it operates

link Barry Joined: Jun 19, 2019
Posts: 11330
9/21/22, 1:41:46 PM 
In reply to Slipfeeler

Fool, no small island developing state (SIDS) have world impacting natural resources- Trinidad does not have large reserves of oil and gas by OPEC standards confused

link Castled Joined: Aug 20, 2022
Posts: 189
9/21/22, 6:41:41 PM 
In reply to velo

there is no way that trinadad or grenada are above barbados on the human development index with that crime situation

Do a little research those are numbers from latest HDI. Barbados economy alike other developing states was struck hard by the pandemic. The war in Ukraine caused a steep rise in energy costs. T&T economy reaps major benefits from the war.

link Slipfeeler Joined: Dec 21, 2015
Posts: 6033
9/21/22, 10:00:19 PM 
In reply to Barry

I guess you are challenged by basic comprehension, where have I implied SIDS have world-impacting resources? I am beginning to think that your opposition might be link to other factors and not just this post, for its unthinkable that anyone who claims your level of education could have been this naive or stupid. It’s a great tragedy when our struggling economies offer scholarships and graduates although brilliant with book knowledge, have not gained the wisdom or basic reasoning skills to convert that book knowledge into practical applicability adaptable for the advancement of their own economy or people, a waste of the country’s revenue.

link Barry Joined: Jun 19, 2019
Posts: 11330
9/22/22, 8:12:03 AM 
In reply to Slipfeeler

If SIDS by definition are economically fragile and vulnerable and do not have world class level of resources, there HDIs are relatively high. Be careful fatman, you slipped back into one of your other handles style… razz

link Barry Joined: Jun 19, 2019
Posts: 11330
9/22/22, 8:13:23 AM 
Doesn’t this sound like Sarge

In reply to Barry

I guess you are challenged by basic comprehension, where have I implied SIDS have world-impacting resources? I am beginning to think that your opposition might be link to other factors and not just this post, for its unthinkable that anyone who claims your level of education could have been this naive or stupid. It’s a great tragedy when our struggling economies offer scholarships and graduates although brilliant with book knowledge, have not gained the wisdom or basic reasoning skills to convert that book knowledge into practical applicability adaptable for the advancement of their own economy or people, a waste of the country’s revenue.]


Man bring out velo too lol lol lol lol

link Slipfeeler Joined: Dec 21, 2015
Posts: 6033
9/22/22, 9:05:42 AM 
Although I like a discussion, I have had discussions on the board lasting almost two weeks, but somehow this one is not intellectually stimulating, as you have nothing concrete to contribute, so let’s just agree to disagree, my brother and one love big grin big grin

link Barry Joined: Jun 19, 2019
Posts: 11330
9/22/22, 10:22:04 AM 
In reply to Slipfeeler

Move on, fruit picker- you were wrong like the wood deck razz

link velo Joined: Jul 28, 2019
Posts: 1916
9/22/22, 4:19:17 PM 
In reply to Barryman something seriously wrong with wid you

link Barry Joined: Jun 19, 2019
Posts: 11330
9/22/22, 11:09:59 PM 
He’s going all out in this thread- he sent in a third avatar- the velo… hmmm he must be losing…. rolleyes

link Castled Joined: Aug 20, 2022
Posts: 189
9/23/22, 12:16:04 AM 
In reply to Barry

Very Happy Smile Sad Surprised Shocked Confused Cool Laughing Razz Embarassed Crying or Very sad Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil Rolling Eyes Wink
 
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