I am watching Kyle as a future captain

Pages: previous  1  2  3  4  next 
link mkcharles Joined: Feb 26, 2010
Posts: 792
9/21/22, 11:20:00 PM 
In reply to Barry

My club boss? I ain’t a member of no club, but I watch cricket in every club in BIM and thankfully we still a free society and I can go any where. I am lucky enough to have played cricket in a time where I still have a few friends who tolerate me.

No doubt I like the lad, but just calling what I see and saying what I know having spoken with the lad too.

Captaining a franchise and captaining the West Indies are two different kettle of fish. To be a WiNdies skipper you need to be chosen, not called. Dappa will need a whip, a lobbyist, a chief strategist and more.

That said, if Pooran can be a skipper…

link powen001 Joined: Nov 25, 2006
Posts: 59342
9/21/22, 11:23:53 PM 
avatar image
In reply to mkcharles

lol

TOUCHEZ!

link mkcharles Joined: Feb 26, 2010
Posts: 792
9/21/22, 11:33:56 PM 
In reply to powen001

I iz a Bajan but a spade is a spade for me.

We have big cliques in BIM long time and we have BIGGER cliques in West Indies.

Marshall was a favorite but I loved Mikey. I was mesmerized by IVA Richards but I thought Lara was a genius. If I had to lead a team I would play Patrick Patterson just for visual effect. Some of the most courageous innings played was by the Big Cat. I could watch Sobie and Khanai whole day, while Kalicharan was one of the very best we produced.

Barbadas has produced the most, Trinidad the least.

I love West Indies cricket.

link Jumpstart Joined: Nov 29, 2017
Posts: 5904
9/22/22, 1:01:40 AM 
In reply to mkcharles

The Windward islands has produced more than Trinidad lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
Allyuh men pitiable in the extreme

link openning Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 41018
9/22/22, 3:31:29 AM 
In reply to Jumpstart
Hoss…….you realize Clive led the WI to being the best team in the world without a manager right? Are you going to blame Phil for not one WI batsman averaging over 40?

Dude I surely put the blame on Phil Simmons, he is clueless and never learn of technology, and please don't show your ignorance to me, but brining Clive and the eras before technology into the conversation.
I have never played for Barbados, but as a fan and student of sport, I have videos from my teachers.
My first ten lessons was golf, I was sent home with a VHS of 3-4 hours of instructions.
These videos change the way I looked at my early coaching in Barbados.
Phil is just not equipped with the present prerequisite to coach any team, at any level today.

link openning Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 41018
9/22/22, 3:39:18 AM 
In reply to Dukes
Being captain of the West Indies is difficult but not impossible as you seem to be making out.
What is required is a smart, honest,hard working captain, who the players can trust
.
Your mindset is still in the 70's, have a look at most international coaches, and see what they doing and looking at, notice the communication after every over, from the players coming onto the field.
The best person to make on-field changes in real time is the Head coach or positional coach.

link Barry Joined: Jun 19, 2019
Posts: 11325
9/22/22, 8:06:33 AM 
In reply to mkcharles

I’m saying what I think too… club to shit, my fellow thinker razz

link Barry Joined: Jun 19, 2019
Posts: 11325
9/22/22, 8:08:11 AM 
In reply to openning

Oh so you can’t play cricket…I wonder why? cool

link Jumpstart Joined: Nov 29, 2017
Posts: 5904
9/22/22, 8:37:42 AM 
In reply to openning

Firstly Simmons coached Ireland for 224 matches and took them to the cusp of full ICC membership.
. His record is consistently outstanding.

Simmons' work with Ireland proved he was brilliant at improving a side, even without the financial or logistical advantages that major teams have. Then, he came back to the West Indies to win a World Twenty20. Also, it is clear how much Afghanistan have grown since he took the job, despite the mess behind the scenes.

People who work with Simmons are almost always positive. He is excellent at coaching, tactics, and was one of the early adopters to cricket analytics. And yet, with that record, you don't even hear his name mentioned for the England job. It would appear from the outside that Simmons is one of the best coaches in the world, and with the West Indies opening their arms to those who left acrimoniously, he should be brought back home.

Link Text
Those are Jarrod Kimber’s words about Simmons after the disastrous 2019 World Cup campaign. So what you’re saying has no basis at all. People outside the pond appreciate Phil’s work.

Secondly, players are in the best position to point out mistakes or errors to their teammates. When Sarwan was having problems with Murali in 2001, who did he go to, the coach? No, he went to Lara, his teammate. When Ambrose and Bishop just came into the squad, you think they went to Lance Gibbs……no. They went to Marshall for technical advice, even though Ambi and Marshall didn’t hit it off immediately. Conversely, Steven Finn was a victim of Andy Flower’s cumbersome coaching staff who still could not point out to him that he had a technical problem bowling to close to the stumps, many times hitting it in delivery stride. I remember when Imran gave the MCC spirit of cricket lecture, there was a panel discussion after the speech involving holding, mark nicholas, Imran, Finn and Jeff Thomson. Steven Finn told the audience that fast bowlers must not think for themselves……ie they must listen to their coaches and video analysts who know so much. I mean it was complete rubbish and it’s no wonder his was over only a few years after it started. The captain is the man in charge on the field which is why he has always taken the blame…….except with teams like India with a jingoistic support base.

link Windiesfan78 Joined: Oct 19, 2021
Posts: 4150
9/22/22, 9:11:42 AM 
In reply to Jumpstart

Sammy was punching above his weight, don't get it twisted. In 2016, there was turmoil in W.I over wages and Darren was able to get the guys to represent the W.I. Everyone doesn't have leadership qualities. You can have a good team on paper but that doesn't guarantee success. West Indies normally do better in tournaments than in international series. What happened after the World Cup? We got thrashed by Pakistan in that series, leading to RTN becoming the t20 captain. WICB couldn't wait to get rid of Mr. Sammy. He stood up to them and made his feelings known to millions of viewers. If there was a captain that could motivate a team to victory, Sammy would have to be one of the best and don't you EVER forget that big grin.

link mkcharles Joined: Feb 26, 2010
Posts: 792
9/22/22, 9:26:41 AM 
In reply to Jumpstart

You splitting hairs fella…The combined islands used to play as one before they become LI and WI. History didn’t start overnight.

The combined island have produced more than Trinidad, perhaps with less people too.

link Jumpstart Joined: Nov 29, 2017
Posts: 5904
9/22/22, 10:41:04 AM 
In reply to mkcharles

Who they produce.....viv, andy, richardson, ambrose, winston davis and the two benjamins and alzarri are the only who have made a significant impact. I deliberately leave out Atherton because he only ever had one good FC season. Insularity played an enormous role in him getting as many chances as he did. Compare that with Larry Constantine, deryck murray, larry gomes, ian bishop, ravi rampaul, denesh ramdin, BCL, derck murray, sonny ramadhin, jeffrey stollmeyer, shannon gabriel,dwayne bravo, darren bravo,keiron pollard, phil simmons, tony gray etc. This two in a country where web are very good at several other sports, such as football(2006 World cup participants), athletics, swimming and cycling.

As far as the early 70s, combined islands were regarded as anoutpost of WI cricket. Frank Worrell had, in the 60s, conducted a few coaching clinics there and said that the Leeward islands would produce the next generation of WI stars, which proved true from andy until curtly. But those 9 aside, they've produced nothing

link Jumpstart Joined: Nov 29, 2017
Posts: 5904
9/22/22, 10:48:24 AM 
In reply to Windiesfan78

Sammy was punching above his weight, don't get it twisted. In 2016, there was turmoil in W.I over wages and Darren was able to get the guys to represent the W.I. Everyone doesn't have leadership qualities. You can have a good team on paper but that doesn't guarantee success. West Indies normally do better in tournaments than in international series. What happened after the World Cup? We got thrashed by Pakistan in that series, leading to RTN becoming the t20 captain. WICB couldn't wait to get rid of Mr. Sammy. He stood up to them and made his feelings known to millions of viewers. If there was a captain that could motivate a team to victory, Sammy would have to be one of the best and don't you EVER forget that

what happened was that Sammy got fired for rightfully exposing cameron, albeit three years too late. The reason we got thrashed was because RTN could barely make the team.In fact he was only picked because Pollard got injured before the world cup. And the fact that he got it for essentially being a boy scout, much like holder after the 2014 india fiasco, would not have endeared him to any of his teammates. It wasn't that sammy was a good captain(i admit he can motivate people) but that RTN was viewed by his teammates as a cameron lapdog and the team was subsequently purged, like sammy and holder's teams, so he could captain

West Indies normally do better in tournaments than in international series

which is why i view lara and gayle's achievements in such high regard. Sammy, given the same personel in 99 would have been whitewashed easily by that Australia team, one of the best in the history of the sport. Similarly, i couldn't see him winning the 2009 wisden trophy either or giving australia a big scare in the winter tour of that year. The captain has to be one of your best players capable f backing up his instructions with performances. Sammy wasn't good enough to do that

link mkcharles Joined: Feb 26, 2010
Posts: 792
9/22/22, 11:42:50 AM 
In reply to Jumpstart

It’s quite okay to see the same things from different lenses.

If someone asks me to tell them who BIM has produced I dare not include everyone who has ever played for the West Indies especially some of the current vintage.

Same if you ask me for my list of vintage Trinis. Clearly my list would differ from the names you provided.

My list would not include Fidel or Pedro Collins in the same way that I would not include Ravi Rampaul in the second list. You most certainly wouldn’t include a Courtney Browne if I reversed the question, but yet have no hesitation in offering a Dinesh Ramdin.

It’s all perspective.

link Jumpstart Joined: Nov 29, 2017
Posts: 5904
9/22/22, 12:00:02 PM 
In reply to mkcharles

If someone asks me to tell them who BIM has produced I dare not include everyone who has ever played for the West Indies especially some of the current vintage.

Same if you ask me for my list of vintage Trinis. Clearly my list would differ from the names you provided.

My list would not include Fidel or Pedro Collins in the same way that I would not include Ravi Rampaul in the second list. You most certainly wouldn’t include a Courtney Browne if I reversed the question, but yet have no hesitation in offering a Dinesh Ramdin.

hoss BIMmers boycotted a test match against a SA team just readmitted after being banned for constitutional racism simply because a player, a mediocre player from the island wasn't picked. I doubt they could be viewed as the best judge of anything to do with cricket, the temptation to be insular is way too strong.

My list would not include Fidel or Pedro Collins in the same way that I would not include Ravi Rampaul in the second list. You most certainly wouldn’t include a Courtney Browne if I reversed the question, but yet have no hesitation in offering a Dinesh Ramdin

Firstly, Ravi Rampaul played a pivotal role in us winning a world cup. I don't know what pedro collins has done. We would would have never won that final if Rampaul didn't clean up Dilshan, then the best limited overs batsman in the world, early. In addition, he took 12 wickets in that tournament, second only to Sunil Narine amongst the WI bowlers. The fidel question is good because fidel was a victim of the said cliques you talked about in barbados. It seems a habit with them. Elevate the garbage, fight down the talent

With regards to Ramdin and Browne.......Denesh has four test hundreds, the second most by a specialist west indian wicketkeeper, one less than Dujon(walcott wasn't a specialist WK, he only kept wicket in 15 of his 44 tests). Courtney browne has two infamous drop catches ten years apart at the same ground, and 387 runs in 20 tests representing the WI. They're worlds apart patnas.

link openning Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 41018
9/22/22, 1:17:04 PM 
In reply to Barry

Oh so you can’t play cricket…I wonder why?

I stopped playing cricket and took up golf, it was an incident on the cricket field, and the lack of discipline by my club, that made me quit playing cricket.

link Windiesfan78 Joined: Oct 19, 2021
Posts: 4150
9/22/22, 1:32:36 PM 
In reply to Jumpstart

This is what makes Sammy so special. Gayle and Lara were world class players, Sammy was not. However, Sammy knew his limitations and always wore his heart on his sleeve, leading the boys in maroon to victories against stronger opponents and collecting 2 ICC major trophies along the way. He not only had the respect of his Caribbean mates but those he captained in Pakistan and Bangladesh, so much so that he took it upon himself to travel to Pakistan when others wouldn't. He led his team to the title and was made an honorary Pakistani citizen. Sammy was a good captain, leading a team in decline and getting the best he could out of them. Isn't it ironic how sometimes it takes others from outside the region to see the value in a person.

link imusic Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 74558
9/22/22, 1:42:59 PM 
avatar image
In reply to Windiesfan78

Isn't it ironic how sometimes it takes others from outside the region to see the value in a person.

Like India with Pollard, Gayle, Big B, Russell, Narine, Badree etc?

link powen001 Joined: Nov 25, 2006
Posts: 59342
9/22/22, 1:49:16 PM 
avatar image
In reply to mkcharles

while Kalicharan was one of the very best we produced.


YOU WON me for sure here!!

My childhood HERO!!

to this day I recall seeing him bat and just being awestruck by him

link Jumpstart Joined: Nov 29, 2017
Posts: 5904
9/22/22, 1:53:23 PM 
In reply to Windiesfan78

However, Sammy knew his limitations and always wore his heart on his sleeve, leading the boys in maroon to victories against stronger opponents and collecting 2 ICC major trophies along the way

Stronger opponents? lol lol lol lol lol
i dunno any team that could beat a team with pollard, bravo, rampaul, narine, russell, universe boss and yes even samuels. The only other team strong enough in 2012 was SL, simply because of their mystery spinners and mahela, dilshan and sanga. In 2016 the competition was a little easier because SL had faded. We never played australia and India was still playing t20s like a compact version of 50 over cricket. As i told you, Sammy was an excellent motivator, no doubt about it. But your captain has to be able to contribute more often than not. Homie gayle was also a good motivator of people. During his time as cappo, only one man failed to conform....darren powell who was a special breed of ignoramus. And after this wisden trophy, that was it for him. Gayle just wasn't going to be the board's yes man and the WICB could not take that.

link mkcharles Joined: Feb 26, 2010
Posts: 792
9/22/22, 3:23:48 PM 
Earlier today I was harsh on Ramdin who after all is a West Indies Captain and was a decent enough player. For this I apologize.

Sadly, when the annals of West Indies Cricket is written I don’t remember him with any nostalgia in the pecking order of great WI keepers and servants of West Indies cricket.

I was also schooled that apparently Rampaul is another legend of West Indies cricket since after all he won us a World Cup, never mind T20, a world title is after all a world title. There are a few that will be happy to hear that they make the qualifying standards like the Olympics.

Take a bow Rampaul and rise to the head of the class with your good mate Ramdin.

link mkcharles Joined: Feb 26, 2010
Posts: 792
9/22/22, 3:23:49 PM 

link Jumpstart Joined: Nov 29, 2017
Posts: 5904
9/22/22, 3:33:51 PM 
In reply to mkcharles
Earlier today I was harsh on Ramdin who after all is a West Indies Captain and was a decent enough player. For this I apologize.

Sadly, when the annals of West Indies Cricket is written I don’t remember him with any nostalgia in the pecking order of great WI keepers and servants of West Indies cricket.

Well those annals will probably be written by foreigners. Record keeping in the WI is terrible and flush with insular logic. Case in point, prof beckles trying to convince us that the BIMmers boycotted the 1992 SA test on some kind of anti-racist principle, counter to what even his own compatriots had said.

link tc1 Joined: Jun 11, 2004
Posts: 15888
9/22/22, 4:47:15 PM 
In reply to Jumpstart


Jumpy, you mentioned 15 players, how many of them would you said were in the top 20 in WI cricket.

link Jumpstart Joined: Nov 29, 2017
Posts: 5904
9/22/22, 5:05:26 PM 
In reply to tc1

only one. Barbados has about 10, antigua 3, jamaica about 7 or 8. But that doesn't mean TTO has not contributed to WI success. It just means that the WI has produced so many great players that their position in the pecking order drops. 15 or 16 of the top 20 WI players come from 75 to 95 alone. And there were great players before that era.

Very Happy Smile Sad Surprised Shocked Confused Cool Laughing Razz Embarassed Crying or Very sad Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil Rolling Eyes Wink
 
Pages: previous  1  2  3  4  next