HEADLINE: INDEPENDENT GROUP SUBMIT ICC MENíS T20 WORLD CUP REVIEW REPORT TO CWI

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link CaribbeanCricket.com Joined: Mar 5, 2003
Posts: 9995
1/19/23, 11:40:46 AM 

ST JOHN’S, Antigua – Following their comprehensive review of matters related to the performance of the West Indies Men’s team, and their early exit from at the ICC Men’s T20 World Cup in Australia last year, the independent three-member group appointed by Cricket West Indies (CWI) has submitted their report to CWI President Ricky Skerritt.

The group was chaired by Justice Patrick Thompson Jr., a High Court Judge of the Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court, and included Brian Lara, the West Indies batting legend and current IPL T20 Head Coach, and South African international cricket coach, Mickey Arthur.


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link Atl_View Joined: Jul 2, 2012
Posts: 498
1/19/23, 5:39:16 PM 

Ok read it and put it away safely. Let us not try to win or plan to win anything here. Let each nation go their own way and make the cricketing world more exciting.

link Dukes Joined: Dec 5, 2002
Posts: 45459
1/19/23, 6:57:41 PM 
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A concerted effort must be made to have some of our white ball players play those Test Matches against Australia and Pakistan. As a part of this retreat, a constructive discussion must be had with, but not exclusively limited to, players such as Nicholas Pooran, Evin Lewis, Akeal Hosein, Odean Smith, Shimron Hetmyer, Shai Hope, Brandon King and Rovman Powell to name a few. Following this Group’s consultations, we hold the strong view that red ball, and in particular Test cricket, against the Test Teams ranked above us provides vital opportunities for primarily white ball players to develop their overall cricketing skills.



Sometimes the obvious needs to be shouted from the rooftops so that the dumb people in charge can understand what needs to be done!!!!!

link imusic Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 75302
1/19/23, 7:11:31 PM 
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In reply to Dukes

Shai Hope has never refused selection for test cricket. He was dropped and hasn’t been selected for tests since.

link Atl_View Joined: Jul 2, 2012
Posts: 498
1/19/23, 7:28:31 PM 
In reply to Dukes

Sir we can shout and always do, but do they know how to listen? Smart phones are useless with these folks it seems like.

link Dukes Joined: Dec 5, 2002
Posts: 45459
1/19/23, 8:32:18 PM 
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In reply to imusic

Shai Hope has never refused selection for test cricket.



Did I say that he did? Did I imply that he did?
He has played a solitary first class match where he scored a century.Instead of playing 5 games for Barbados in 2022 he is off playing against the Netherlands in ODI cricket.

That idiocy is supported by people like you but I have been condemning it from the start

Allyuh navel gazing and talking bout best ODI player in the world and such nonsense.

Shai scoring ODI centuries and WI losing is a waste of time.We need to be getting him back into the test team by scoring big in first class cricket and scoring big centuries, even double centuries against the BEST bowlers in the Caribbean.

Sadly while our first class tournament is going on we are overseas with our best players so devaluing our domestic competition.

The irony of Blackwood and Bonner as two players who did not play white ball cricket and were not in the red ball team getting a full season playing for Jamaica and excelling and into the test team is lost on you mindless people.Tragically Brandon King and Shai Hope were off playing meaningless white ball cricket and lost the opportunity to dominate our first class season and hence get into the test team.

DUMB AND DUMBER

link imusic Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 75302
1/19/23, 8:47:59 PM 
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In reply to Dukes

Fist class cricket in the West Indies, as it has existed for the past 20 years….and still exists to this day…. ooes ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to improve or develop our cricketers or the standard of cricket in the region.

Continue to hang your hat on your blatantly ineffective panacea for our performances.

You can continue to call me and other people’a names to make you feel better about yourself. Doesn’t matter to me. Just exposes your mindset and sense of being.


You talk about Blackwood and Booner excelling in FC cricket and making it to the test team. You also reference King and Hope playing “meaningless” white ball cricket instead of focusing on making the test team.

It hasn’t occurred to you that perhaps the players don’t view being on the test team as the pinnacle of the game. Perhaps “meaningless” white ball cricket is higher on their priority list and you can’t reconcile that.

So you resort to name calling.

You bring a lot of positive to this board. However, that aspect of your character where you need to feel superior to others does you no favours and should be beneath you.

But it’s who you are. Salah

link Dukes Joined: Dec 5, 2002
Posts: 45459
1/19/23, 9:09:31 PM 
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In reply to imusic

Whenever people engage in hyperbole, the reason is to obfuscate what is being said.
Having a full first class season where all the best players in the Caribbean participate will ensure that our BEST players are ready, willing and able to represent the West Indies to the best of their ability.They might still lose but not by the ridiculously large margins.
It is my opinion that we have not been selecting our best teams and when you are in a situation where the amount of players is small we absolutely must select our best team always.
Shai Hope is obviously one of our better batsmen. He has lost form and confidence in test cricket and instead of him being able to go back to first class cricket to relearn how to build an innings and regain his confidence he is off playing meaningless ODI cricket.It is not as though we are winning our ODI matches because we can only beat minnows some of the times while losing to the top teams ALL of the time.

Sadly the lack of innovative thinking by beaurocratic pen pushers is mirrored by a spineless press and supine fans who willingly accept the garbage that they are fed by CWI with neary a protest.

I will tell you this.A smart COS and a thinking CWI and in a flash our best batsmen will be playing test cricket again.The notion that with our limited amount of top players that we could have different red ball and white ball batsmen is RIDICULOUS.Our BEST WHITE BALL BATSMEN ARE OUR BEST RED BALL BATSMEN AND VICE-VERSA.

link Raskil Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 12284
1/19/23, 9:14:51 PM 
In reply to imusic

I see lots of spinners some learning, some past their prime, taking most of the wickets in our domestic setup.

Some thoughts to counter your ‘useless competition’ statement...

-Our batsmen cannot play spin properly on the international stage.
-Our domestic level is constantly revealing this flaw.

link imusic Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 75302
1/19/23, 9:32:42 PM 
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In reply to Raskil

Honestly I don’t have an answer

But to start with, I would look at the standard of pitches AND umpiring in the region….both of which need elevation.

Practice facilities also need to be upgraded

That’s mainly on the infrastructure side.

From the player standpoint….look at importing specialists. If our “best players” aren’t available during FC cricket, perhaps foreign players could fill that experience gap.

They won’t be eligible for WI…….but they may be able to set the standard for what it means to be professional, approach playing professionally and prepare in the same way.

That could have a positive impact on domestic players. Some of them Amy even attract spectators.

Who wouldn’t want to escape a winter for the Sunny climes of the Caribbean playing the game you love?

But as I said before…..I don’t have the answers.

link Raskil Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 12284
1/19/23, 10:08:32 PM 
In reply to imusic

If we have a domestic setup good enough to attract foreign talent, it would be good enough to also nurture local talent.
CWI may have to secure a Chinese loan to fast track things.
I heard the North South road in Jamaica is a huge success.

lol

link brians_da_best Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 17678
1/19/23, 10:50:58 PM 
It is not in the best interests of West Indies Cricket that our best players play in every global league and play for the WI Team on an optional basis. It is imperative that the Board and the players have a frank and honest discussion with each other in order to arrive at a solution to this impasse. In this Group’s view, there is significant distrust between the players and administration and this distrust is inimical to ensuring that the best 11 players turn out for the WI Team in every match. No Objection Certificates cannot be weaponized against the players, but it is essential that some middle ground is arrived at. Otherwise, West Indies Cricket may cease to exist as an entity. This Group does not indulge in doomsday predictions but no entity, sporting or otherwise, has a viable future if its talent is not harnessed and effectively managed.

link imusic Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 75302
1/19/23, 10:56:40 PM 
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In reply to brians_da_best

West Indies cricket will not cease to exist

The test team will be playing in a de facto second tier “league” pretty much as they do now. It will just be official.

White ball cricket……especially the most abbreviated formats….like it or not….is the now and future for WI cricket.

The sooner we accept and embrace that reality, the better for WI cricket.

link imusic Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 75302
1/19/23, 11:06:52 PM 
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That report quoted in the lead article basically advocates a “Buckleys” approach to getting our best players to play FC cricket

It tastes terrible……but it’s good for you

Players not buying that.

What exactly is attractive about regional FC cricket that would motivate our best players….or young talented players to commit to playing it?

Why should a young, talented player be motivated to play FC cricket when they can play the abbreviated form for 3 hours instead of 4 days, in front of a crowd, bowl substantially less, bat for less time, and potentially make significantly more money doing so?

Would love to see the answers

link mikelegend Joined: Nov 27, 2009
Posts: 8670
1/20/23, 1:05:36 AM 
In reply to imusic

How did those ‘young talented players’ perform in the T20 World Cup?? How did the recent old talented ones perform in their last World Cup? Who has been without question the BEST T20 batsman in the WI in the last 10-15 years? How did he develop his skillset? Was he simply a slugger? Could he play fast bowling and spin equally well?

link Dukes Joined: Dec 5, 2002
Posts: 45459
1/20/23, 7:43:10 AM 
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Gentlemen
Here is my take on the above statement.
1. The Panel by naming as many as 8 players were disguising their true intent so as to be less controversial but really are thinking of 4 players. Pooran, Hetmyer, Hope and King are the players they are really interested in for test cricket.
Why they are not playing test cricket is due to distinctly different reasons ALL of which can be traced back to CWI and the challenges some unique that we face.
However it is not easy to get these 4 players into the test team

Hetty and Nicky P
In view of their huge IPL contracts we need to discuss in detail with them our fervent wish that they make themselves available to play test cricket for the West Indies on a regular basis.This does not mean availability on the days of the test matches but playing a mutually agreed amount of first class matches. That may mean playing only 1 other T 20 franchise league per year. In addition CWI will have to be creative in organizing both our domestic competition and our overseas tours in order to accommodate this reality

Brandon King and Shai Hope

These two needed to cement their places in the red ball squad at the start of 2022 , the former for the first time and the latter due to a lack of form and confidence over the last 4 years. What took place instead was that each played a solitary match, scored a century and were then immediately selected for ODI cricket and thus unavailable for selection to test cricket
We can not have CWI white ball tours or indeed any tours during our domestic first class season. It not only devalues our domestic first class competition but it robs our best players of the muscle memory required for multi day cricket not to include form and confidence for test cricket
To do all this requires careful planning, persuasive cajoling of the players and intellectual sagacity of the highest order.
Does CWI possess the requisite skill set to accomplish these difficult goals? I have no option but to be optimistic!!!

link rillo Joined: Nov 28, 2009
Posts: 3925
1/20/23, 11:20:26 PM 
In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

Maybe if they up the class in the FC competitions like it is winter so invite some English/ Aussie/ SA NZ clubs to come in and play against the local squads. Maybe then we will improve.
This one round farce is going to keep us where we are.
We can have an international trophy and a local trophy all competing against each other but for different trophies.

link brians_da_best Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 17678
1/21/23, 12:50:08 AM 
In reply to imusic

How how are they playing in a de facto tier 2 league.

Their last series was against australia.

Another series against South Africa coming up.

The icc test championship has ensured that all teams play each other. What has happened though is our series are now just 2 tests. It used to be 5 in the 90s, reduced to 4 in the 2000s, and now it’s mainly 2, and rarely 3

link XDFIX Joined: Mar 1, 2003
Posts: 14943
1/21/23, 5:02:11 AM 
Y’all don’t see anything yet, wait till those Middle East guys grab the cricket and run with it!!

Only the ICC can arrest this madness!

Will they? I think not because the bottom line is money!

Cricket is not fun or ‘sports’ like back in the days!

The sooner we rid ourselves of that emotional attachment or past, the better it is for our psyche!

As is said these days West Indies is not a country and even if it was, money would still trump country, ask those guys in the diaspora!

link PM Joined: Apr 10, 2019
Posts: 70
1/21/23, 7:58:28 AM 
In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com


A simplistic report with known facts and apparent recommendations. BTW we were told that the T-20 squad was probably one of the best-prepared squads to leave the WI.

link PM Joined: Apr 10, 2019
Posts: 70
1/21/23, 8:02:46 AM 
In reply to rillo
A great suggestion that the WICB should have implemented in the late 1980s.
Better late than never.

link cumberland Joined: Dec 3, 2022
Posts: 155
1/21/23, 1:30:08 PM 
In reply to brians_da_best

In reply to imusic

How how are they playing in a de facto tier 2 league.

Their last series was against australia.

Another series against South Africa coming up.

The icc test championship has ensured that all teams play each other. What has happened though is our series are now just 2 tests. It used to be 5 in the 90s, reduced to 4 in the 2000s, and now it’s mainly 2, and rarely 3


You see that 2 Test roster now. Thats the defacto Tier 2. WI are only hanging on by the graces of the ICC not figuring out how to demote an historic team. The minute they get the how watch out!

link cumberland Joined: Dec 3, 2022
Posts: 155
1/21/23, 1:43:15 PM 
In reply to XDFIX

Y’all don’t see anything yet, wait till those Middle East guys grab the cricket and run with it!!

Only the ICC can arrest this madness!

Will they? I think not because the bottom line is money!

Cricket is not fun or ‘sports’ like back in the days!

The sooner we rid ourselves of that emotional attachment or past, the better it is for our psyche!

As is said these days West Indies is not a country and even if it was, money would still trump country, ask those guys in the diaspora!



Every now and again, gems like these hit this board.

Whilst we await the Middle Easterners, MLC in America threatens. When our cricketers realize the harsh realities of their existence, if they haven't already, they will like most thinking people of these post-independence West Indian islands head to North America and wherever else they see their lives being better lived.

link Courtesy Joined: Apr 15, 2009
Posts: 34121
1/21/23, 2:22:01 PM 
Jezus!!!...big men sat down and wrote this nonsense?

Lemme say this in pellucid terms, unless you can do a proper problem identifation you cannot solve what's confronting you.

No amount of cajoling cricketers to devote more time to West Indies cricket will stop our haemorrhaging.

The problem is glaring...our cricketers are not trained to international standards and will therefore not compete favourably on the internationl stage...end of story.

Strategic imperatives should then be developed to solve the problem.

Those guys are jokers.

link rillo Joined: Nov 28, 2009
Posts: 3925
1/21/23, 2:31:37 PM 
In reply to PM

Never too late. I am sure the older players like Viv or LLoyd still have contacts at their old clubs to help the youngsters.

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