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Should 'Murca Pay Guyana Reperations...
Joined: May 1, 2021
Posts: 1527 3/10/23, 6:11:31 PM
Posts: 1527 3/10/23, 6:11:31 PM
Joined: Jan 24, 2004
Posts: 13359 3/10/23, 6:41:01 PM
Posts: 13359 3/10/23, 6:41:01 PM
In reply to WIfan26
Here is a better and more credible source.
Here is a better and more credible source.
SUBJECT:
Proposal for Support to the Peoples National Congress Party of Guyana
1. SUMMARY
Prime Minister Forbes Burnham of Guyana, who has previously received covert assistance from CIA, requested that the Agency provide $10,000 a month for two years to support his efforts to build his party, the Peoples National Congress (PNC), into an effective, permanently organized political party. Ambassador Delmar Carlson [text not declassified] recommend approval of this request in the amount of $5,000 per month for two years, with the understanding that Burnham be aware that the subsidy would be reviewed at the end of the first year and could be terminated if the PNC had not made satisfactory progress. Burnham has been told that we are seeking policy approval for the $5,000 monthly subsidy.
Assistant Secretary Charles Meyer concurs in this proposal.
[Page 2]
2. PROBLEM
To support Prime Minister Burnhams efforts to maintain and strengthen the PNC as a well-organized party that can continue to serve as a bulwark against Cheddi Jagans accession to power in Guyana.
3. FACTORS BEARING ON THE PROBLEM
a. Background
The United States Government determined in 1962 that Cheddi Jagan would not be desirable as the head of government in Guyana. CIA was instructed to provide guidance and support to the PNC and to the small, conservative United Force (UF) party in the 1964 election campaign. These two parties formed a coalition after the election and took over the government, with Forbes Burnham becoming Prime Minister. New elections were scheduled for December 1968 and, as a result of a 303 Committee decision of 7 April 1967, CIA was again instructed to support the PNC and the UF. In the 1968 elections the PNC used its control of the government to pad the electoral rolls and win a slim majority of the vote. The official results gave the PNC 30 seats in the legislative assembly, the Peoples Progressive Party (Jagans party) 19 seats and the UF 4 seats. Leaders of the PPP and the UF attacked the elections as being dishonest, but their charges had little effect in Guyana and stirred almost no
[Page 3]
interest abroad.
b. Origin of the Requirement
In February 1969 Burnham asked [text not declassified] for a subsidy of $10,000 a month for two years to help him establish the PNC on a permanent basis. (NOTE: He had made little effort after the 1964 contest to put his party on a permanent footing.) Burnham indicated he would use this subsidy to maintain a small corps of paid PNC organizers, to keep open essential sections of the central party office, and to continue party information activities as needed.
After considering Burnhams request, the Ambassador [text not declassified] concluded that a subsidy was desirable and $5,000 per month for two years would adequately meet the PNCs requirements. In addition, [text not declassified] recommended it be agreed with Burnham that the subsidy would be reviewed after one year and could be terminated if the PNC had not made satisfactory progress toward establishing permanent party machinery. Burnham understands that we are seeking policy approval for this subsidy.
c. Relationship to Previous 303 Committee Actions
The Special Group granted approval for CIA to provide financial support to the [text not declassified]
[Page 4]
in 1962 and 1963 and CIA was instructed to support the UF and the PNC in the 1964 elections. On 7 April 1967 the 303 Committee approved a proposal to support the UF and the PNC again for the 1968 elections. Subsequent progress reports described in detail the successful action taken by CIA under this decision.
d. Operational Objectives
(1) The objective of this proposal is to support the PNCs efforts to become a permanently established and well-organized political party that will be able to contest the next national elections under optimum conditions.
(2) There is no evidence to indicate that Burnham has made any significant inroads into the East Indian electorate so far. If present population and voting trends continue, Burnham would lose to Jagan in an honest election. Thus one should look at this subsidy as a means of improving the PNCs ability to turn out all possible pro-Burnham votes.
e. [text not declassified]
[Page 5]
f. Risks Involved
There was no exposure of United States Government or CIA involvement in the 1964 and 1968 elections. The only significant adverse publicity arising from the 1968 elections was aired on two television programs in Britain in December 1968 and January 1969. The telecasts revealed discrepancies in the voting in Guyana and charged that the voting of over-seas Guyanese in Britain (and to a far lesser extent in the United States) was rigged. The broadcasts did not mention
[Page 6]
any involvement by the United States Government or CIA; they had little impact and were more than offset by the generally favorable coverage provided by most news media.
Jagan of course has a long history of publicly accusing CIA and the United States and British Governments of opposing him and aiding Burnham. We can expect these charges to continue, but with little effect.
Although the personnel involved will exercise all due caution, it is impossible to eliminate every risk attached to a covert operation of this type. However, given the moderate amount of the subsidy, the small number of people involved [text not declassified]
g. Contingency Plan
We can rely on Burnham to use whatever resources are available to him, including those in the Government of Guyana, to cover up or limit the compromise or disclosure of this operation. [text not declassified]
[Page 7]
4. COORDINATION
a. The American Ambassador to Guyana, Delmar Carlson, and the Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs, Charles Meyer, concur in this proposal.
b. [text not declassified]
5. RECOMMENDATION
It is recommended that the 303 Committee approve a subsidy to the PNC of $5,000 per month for two years with the understanding that at the end of the first year the subsidy would be reviewed and could be terminated if the PNC had not made satisfactory progress toward establishing a permanent party mechanism.
Source: National Security Council, NSC Intelligence Files, Country Files, Guyana, 23 May 19696 February 1973. Secret; Eyes Only. A handwritten note at the bottom of the first page reads: Approved by the 303 Committee on 17 June 1969 with a proviso re additional source of funds (see minute).↩ The memorandum contained proposed objectives for U.S. covert aid to Guyana with emphasis given to strengthening Burnhams Peoples National Congress Party. It recommended continuing the same level of secret support.
Proposal for Support to the Peoples National Congress Party of Guyana
1. SUMMARY
Prime Minister Forbes Burnham of Guyana, who has previously received covert assistance from CIA, requested that the Agency provide $10,000 a month for two years to support his efforts to build his party, the Peoples National Congress (PNC), into an effective, permanently organized political party. Ambassador Delmar Carlson [text not declassified] recommend approval of this request in the amount of $5,000 per month for two years, with the understanding that Burnham be aware that the subsidy would be reviewed at the end of the first year and could be terminated if the PNC had not made satisfactory progress. Burnham has been told that we are seeking policy approval for the $5,000 monthly subsidy.
Assistant Secretary Charles Meyer concurs in this proposal.
[Page 2]
2. PROBLEM
To support Prime Minister Burnhams efforts to maintain and strengthen the PNC as a well-organized party that can continue to serve as a bulwark against Cheddi Jagans accession to power in Guyana.
3. FACTORS BEARING ON THE PROBLEM
a. Background
The United States Government determined in 1962 that Cheddi Jagan would not be desirable as the head of government in Guyana. CIA was instructed to provide guidance and support to the PNC and to the small, conservative United Force (UF) party in the 1964 election campaign. These two parties formed a coalition after the election and took over the government, with Forbes Burnham becoming Prime Minister. New elections were scheduled for December 1968 and, as a result of a 303 Committee decision of 7 April 1967, CIA was again instructed to support the PNC and the UF. In the 1968 elections the PNC used its control of the government to pad the electoral rolls and win a slim majority of the vote. The official results gave the PNC 30 seats in the legislative assembly, the Peoples Progressive Party (Jagans party) 19 seats and the UF 4 seats. Leaders of the PPP and the UF attacked the elections as being dishonest, but their charges had little effect in Guyana and stirred almost no
[Page 3]
interest abroad.
b. Origin of the Requirement
In February 1969 Burnham asked [text not declassified] for a subsidy of $10,000 a month for two years to help him establish the PNC on a permanent basis. (NOTE: He had made little effort after the 1964 contest to put his party on a permanent footing.) Burnham indicated he would use this subsidy to maintain a small corps of paid PNC organizers, to keep open essential sections of the central party office, and to continue party information activities as needed.
After considering Burnhams request, the Ambassador [text not declassified] concluded that a subsidy was desirable and $5,000 per month for two years would adequately meet the PNCs requirements. In addition, [text not declassified] recommended it be agreed with Burnham that the subsidy would be reviewed after one year and could be terminated if the PNC had not made satisfactory progress toward establishing permanent party machinery. Burnham understands that we are seeking policy approval for this subsidy.
c. Relationship to Previous 303 Committee Actions
The Special Group granted approval for CIA to provide financial support to the [text not declassified]
[Page 4]
in 1962 and 1963 and CIA was instructed to support the UF and the PNC in the 1964 elections. On 7 April 1967 the 303 Committee approved a proposal to support the UF and the PNC again for the 1968 elections. Subsequent progress reports described in detail the successful action taken by CIA under this decision.
d. Operational Objectives
(1) The objective of this proposal is to support the PNCs efforts to become a permanently established and well-organized political party that will be able to contest the next national elections under optimum conditions.
(2) There is no evidence to indicate that Burnham has made any significant inroads into the East Indian electorate so far. If present population and voting trends continue, Burnham would lose to Jagan in an honest election. Thus one should look at this subsidy as a means of improving the PNCs ability to turn out all possible pro-Burnham votes.
e. [text not declassified]
[Page 5]
f. Risks Involved
There was no exposure of United States Government or CIA involvement in the 1964 and 1968 elections. The only significant adverse publicity arising from the 1968 elections was aired on two television programs in Britain in December 1968 and January 1969. The telecasts revealed discrepancies in the voting in Guyana and charged that the voting of over-seas Guyanese in Britain (and to a far lesser extent in the United States) was rigged. The broadcasts did not mention
[Page 6]
any involvement by the United States Government or CIA; they had little impact and were more than offset by the generally favorable coverage provided by most news media.
Jagan of course has a long history of publicly accusing CIA and the United States and British Governments of opposing him and aiding Burnham. We can expect these charges to continue, but with little effect.
Although the personnel involved will exercise all due caution, it is impossible to eliminate every risk attached to a covert operation of this type. However, given the moderate amount of the subsidy, the small number of people involved [text not declassified]
g. Contingency Plan
We can rely on Burnham to use whatever resources are available to him, including those in the Government of Guyana, to cover up or limit the compromise or disclosure of this operation. [text not declassified]
[Page 7]
4. COORDINATION
a. The American Ambassador to Guyana, Delmar Carlson, and the Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs, Charles Meyer, concur in this proposal.
b. [text not declassified]
5. RECOMMENDATION
It is recommended that the 303 Committee approve a subsidy to the PNC of $5,000 per month for two years with the understanding that at the end of the first year the subsidy would be reviewed and could be terminated if the PNC had not made satisfactory progress toward establishing a permanent party mechanism.
Source: National Security Council, NSC Intelligence Files, Country Files, Guyana, 23 May 19696 February 1973. Secret; Eyes Only. A handwritten note at the bottom of the first page reads: Approved by the 303 Committee on 17 June 1969 with a proviso re additional source of funds (see minute).↩ The memorandum contained proposed objectives for U.S. covert aid to Guyana with emphasis given to strengthening Burnhams Peoples National Congress Party. It recommended continuing the same level of secret support.
Joined: May 1, 2021
Posts: 1527 3/10/23, 6:47:29 PM
Posts: 1527 3/10/23, 6:47:29 PM
In reply to SnoopDog
Oh sku** thanks wonder if me bai Burke guh show Hakeem this
Oh sku** thanks wonder if me bai Burke guh show Hakeem this

Joined: Oct 12, 2006
Posts: 11971 3/10/23, 6:48:23 PM
Posts: 11971 3/10/23, 6:48:23 PM
America's meddling in Guyana is no different from what they did in Chile to Salvador Allende
Joined: Mar 16, 2021
Posts: 7176 3/10/23, 6:52:46 PM
Posts: 7176 3/10/23, 6:52:46 PM
They'll build you up and just as quickly chop you down. Noriega anyone?
Joined: Dec 4, 2002
Posts: 14898 3/10/23, 10:25:13 PM
Posts: 14898 3/10/23, 10:25:13 PM
What really pisses me off is the denial of the PNC that this actually occurred
Joined: Dec 4, 2002
Posts: 14898 3/11/23, 4:24:02 PM
Posts: 14898 3/11/23, 4:24:02 PM
If we were to count the number of countries bought out like this, the number might surprise some
Joined: Jan 24, 2004
Posts: 13359 3/11/23, 7:30:19 PM
Posts: 13359 3/11/23, 7:30:19 PM
In reply to Curtis
Or not.
Both Jagan and Walter Rodney told people that Burnham was a CIA stooge and that they enabled his continued dictatorship.
Its also amazing the deathly silence from some on this MB now that their godfather has been exposed and all doubt removed about his treachery and abject corruption.
If we were to count the number of countries bought out like this, the number might surprise some
Or not.
Both Jagan and Walter Rodney told people that Burnham was a CIA stooge and that they enabled his continued dictatorship.
Its also amazing the deathly silence from some on this MB now that their godfather has been exposed and all doubt removed about his treachery and abject corruption.
Joined: Jul 20, 2014
Posts: 13841 3/11/23, 7:45:36 PM
Posts: 13841 3/11/23, 7:45:36 PM
Wasn't Dr Jagan leaning hard towards musscoe!?
Wasn't that the primary reason...
Wasn't that the primary reason...

Joined: Feb 9, 2004
Posts: 20003 3/11/23, 8:26:28 PM
Posts: 20003 3/11/23, 8:26:28 PM
In reply to BeatDball
Thats how it was sold.
Thats how it was sold.
Joined: Dec 4, 2002
Posts: 14898 3/11/23, 9:10:50 PM
Posts: 14898 3/11/23, 9:10:50 PM
In reply to SnoopDog
That's the frustrating part of attempts at real unity, failure to accept the truth.
Therapy needed for all.
That's the frustrating part of attempts at real unity, failure to accept the truth.
Therapy needed for all.
Joined: Jun 9, 2017
Posts: 1593 3/13/23, 6:15:49 PM
Posts: 1593 3/13/23, 6:15:49 PM
That explains why Burnham used to win with majorities in the elections...he even suggested he didn't need the CIA help for that...
wow
surprised that that party still around - some die-hards, I guess
wow
surprised that that party still around - some die-hards, I guess
Joined: Oct 12, 2006
Posts: 11971 3/13/23, 6:53:05 PM
Posts: 11971 3/13/23, 6:53:05 PM
Its also amazing the deathly silence from some on this MB now that their godfather has been exposed and all doubt removed about his treachery and abject corruption.
Larr and De good Dr gone fishing. Dem seh fuh seh hi
Joined: May 6, 2003
Posts: 55232 3/13/23, 8:09:48 PM
Posts: 55232 3/13/23, 8:09:48 PM
In reply to WIfan26
They not paying you for the oil, is Reparations you want?
Should 'Murca Pay Guyana Reperations...
They not paying you for the oil, is Reparations you want?

Joined: Sep 15, 2007
Posts: 676 3/13/23, 8:50:27 PM
Posts: 676 3/13/23, 8:50:27 PM
In reply to SnoopDog
I once suggested there should be a truth and reconciliation commission to discuss openly what transpired during the Burnham dictatorship without repercussions akin to what what was done in South Africa. The suggestion was disparaged by a couple of prominent Guyanese posters. Some of these posters can be reasonable in every which way except when it comes to elections in Guyana.
Guyana is not likely to fully move forward and realize its full potential unless theres an open and honest discussion of what Burnham unleashed on the Guyanese people. I believe many from both major ethnic groups benefited, which needs to be exposed. The rampant corruption today has its roots to the Burnham regime.
I once suggested there should be a truth and reconciliation commission to discuss openly what transpired during the Burnham dictatorship without repercussions akin to what what was done in South Africa. The suggestion was disparaged by a couple of prominent Guyanese posters. Some of these posters can be reasonable in every which way except when it comes to elections in Guyana.
Guyana is not likely to fully move forward and realize its full potential unless theres an open and honest discussion of what Burnham unleashed on the Guyanese people. I believe many from both major ethnic groups benefited, which needs to be exposed. The rampant corruption today has its roots to the Burnham regime.
Joined: Nov 27, 2006
Posts: 50915 3/13/23, 10:24:36 PM
Posts: 50915 3/13/23, 10:24:36 PM
So who was funding Jagan?
Joined: Dec 4, 2002
Posts: 14898 3/13/23, 10:50:50 PM
Posts: 14898 3/13/23, 10:50:50 PM
In reply to sudden
Burnham
Burnham
Joined: Jan 24, 2004
Posts: 13359 3/13/23, 11:15:36 PM
Posts: 13359 3/13/23, 11:15:36 PM
In reply to Titleist
It's too late now for a TRC or on the flip side, criminal prosecutions. If a TRC was to happened it should have been just after 1992 when the PPP won the first fair elections since the Burnham dictatorship.
Many of the individuals of the colonial and post-colonial era governments were still alive at that time and their first hand testimony and/or requests for amnesty would have been germane to the hearings and the ultimate goal of a TRC to bring about national unity.
But that ship has sailed and what we have left are the vestiges of colonialism and dictatorship. It's also arguable whether a TRC would have brought about national unity or some sort of collective healing. To this day, many South Africans, both Black and non-Black, take the view that their TRC was a failure. Many wanted justice, not reconciliation.
It's too late now for a TRC or on the flip side, criminal prosecutions. If a TRC was to happened it should have been just after 1992 when the PPP won the first fair elections since the Burnham dictatorship.
Many of the individuals of the colonial and post-colonial era governments were still alive at that time and their first hand testimony and/or requests for amnesty would have been germane to the hearings and the ultimate goal of a TRC to bring about national unity.
But that ship has sailed and what we have left are the vestiges of colonialism and dictatorship. It's also arguable whether a TRC would have brought about national unity or some sort of collective healing. To this day, many South Africans, both Black and non-Black, take the view that their TRC was a failure. Many wanted justice, not reconciliation.
Joined: Sep 15, 2007
Posts: 676 3/14/23, 12:54:15 AM
Posts: 676 3/14/23, 12:54:15 AM
In reply to SnoopDog
I get your point that the timing might be too late for a full fledged TRC. However, what transpired then is still an open wound that few in leadership positions want to talk about. I am inclined to think without some sort of discussion and acknowledgement the current distrust between the two major parties will remain in effect for a long time to come. Trust in the government is especially needed at this juncture given the oil money flowing into Guyana.
Its debatable how effective the TRC worked in SA. Blacks have made some incremental gains in their standard of living even though whites still largely control the economy. What is clear though is that the TRC probably prevented the country from degenerating into something similar to what happened in Zimbabwe.
I get your point that the timing might be too late for a full fledged TRC. However, what transpired then is still an open wound that few in leadership positions want to talk about. I am inclined to think without some sort of discussion and acknowledgement the current distrust between the two major parties will remain in effect for a long time to come. Trust in the government is especially needed at this juncture given the oil money flowing into Guyana.
Its debatable how effective the TRC worked in SA. Blacks have made some incremental gains in their standard of living even though whites still largely control the economy. What is clear though is that the TRC probably prevented the country from degenerating into something similar to what happened in Zimbabwe.
Joined: Jan 21, 2009
Posts: 59419 3/14/23, 1:38:42 AM
Posts: 59419 3/14/23, 1:38:42 AM
Fake thread and a very fake one
Allyuh guh long though, let me not interrupt lies and foolishness
see ya

Joined: May 1, 2021
Posts: 1527 3/14/23, 1:48:35 AM
Posts: 1527 3/14/23, 1:48:35 AM
Joined: Dec 4, 2002
Posts: 14898 3/15/23, 12:25:52 PM
Posts: 14898 3/15/23, 12:25:52 PM
The truth is an offense but not a sin!
Is he who laugh last, children!
Is he who win
Is a foolish dog bark at a flying bird!
One sheep must learn, children!
To respect the sheperd!
Remember reading Jagan's claims of CIA , of Allende, etc.- great to be able to close the loop with the truth.
Guyana paid a steep price, like every where else.
Is he who laugh last, children!
Is he who win
Is a foolish dog bark at a flying bird!
One sheep must learn, children!
To respect the sheperd!
Remember reading Jagan's claims of CIA , of Allende, etc.- great to be able to close the loop with the truth.
Guyana paid a steep price, like every where else.
Joined: Aug 24, 2003
Posts: 1131 3/15/23, 12:51:44 PM
Posts: 1131 3/15/23, 12:51:44 PM
In reply to WIfan26
Thank you for highlighting this sordid affair in Guyanas history. Truthfully anyone of our generation knows about this and knows that its true but many also are in denial.
Thank you for highlighting this sordid affair in Guyanas history. Truthfully anyone of our generation knows about this and knows that its true but many also are in denial.
Joined: Oct 12, 2006
Posts: 11971 3/16/23, 1:59:09 PM
Posts: 11971 3/16/23, 1:59:09 PM
In reply to WestDem
Allow me to get to elaborate on Burnham and the PNCs penchant for electoral banditry and economic mayhem.
For the former, I draw on Professor J.E. Greenes Race vs Politics in Guyana published by ISER, Jamaica 1974. In this important book, Greene provides evidence for early developments in what would become the signature of PNC politics election rigging.
Greene demonstrates how the Representation of the Peoples Act (196
was used to help rig the elections of that year. One aspect of the Act was to allow overseas registration and voting.
The Opinion Research Centre (in England) found that only 10,000 of the 43,000 voters registered were credible. A particularly egregious case of overseas voter fraud occurred in Wolverhampton.
The (PNC) registration man there, a Mr. Joe Hughes, could only account for 41 of the 200 persons on the voters list (Greene, 1974, p. 2
.
A second technique of Burnham for voter fraud was padding of the voters list. Between 1961 and 1964, the number of voters moved from 246,120 to 247, 604, a mere increase of 1,484. Yet, between 1964 (when Burnham took power) and 1968, the voters list moved from 247, 604 to 297, 404, an increase of over 50,000 new voters in four years!
Rigging the proxy vote was another of LFS Burnhams brilliant technique of electoral banditry. In 1961, there were 300 proxies; in 1964 7,000, but by 1968 that number jumped to 19,297. The Americans were terribly worried about the extent of rigging Burnham had planned for the December 1968 elections.
Allow me to get to elaborate on Burnham and the PNCs penchant for electoral banditry and economic mayhem.
For the former, I draw on Professor J.E. Greenes Race vs Politics in Guyana published by ISER, Jamaica 1974. In this important book, Greene provides evidence for early developments in what would become the signature of PNC politics election rigging.
Greene demonstrates how the Representation of the Peoples Act (196

The Opinion Research Centre (in England) found that only 10,000 of the 43,000 voters registered were credible. A particularly egregious case of overseas voter fraud occurred in Wolverhampton.
The (PNC) registration man there, a Mr. Joe Hughes, could only account for 41 of the 200 persons on the voters list (Greene, 1974, p. 2

A second technique of Burnham for voter fraud was padding of the voters list. Between 1961 and 1964, the number of voters moved from 246,120 to 247, 604, a mere increase of 1,484. Yet, between 1964 (when Burnham took power) and 1968, the voters list moved from 247, 604 to 297, 404, an increase of over 50,000 new voters in four years!
Rigging the proxy vote was another of LFS Burnhams brilliant technique of electoral banditry. In 1961, there were 300 proxies; in 1964 7,000, but by 1968 that number jumped to 19,297. The Americans were terribly worried about the extent of rigging Burnham had planned for the December 1968 elections.
Link Text
Joined: Jun 9, 2017
Posts: 1593 3/17/23, 9:41:51 PM
Posts: 1593 3/17/23, 9:41:51 PM
In reply to WI_cricfan
Forbes also made use of the GDF to handle ballot boxes
Forbes also made use of the GDF to handle ballot boxes
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