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Interesting take, can't say I disagree, maybe flip flop Gayle and Shiv.

In reply to Curtis

I would have Viv at #1 then Sobers at #2.

Why are these guys devaluing Garfield St Aubrun Sobers?
His contribution as a total cricketer outperformed EVERYONE?

In reply to SnoopDog

Why?

In reply to openning

I haven't opened the link but the poster said batsmen, why are you conflating that with complete cricketer???

In reply to Brerzerk

Leave him off the list.

Why would anyone who has seen this guy bat, bowl, and field compare him to just a batsman? If he had only talent his production could be multiplied by 8-10.

Most posters on this board know my feelings about Sir Gary, he should never be compared to a one-discipline player.
Only a few months ago, I excluded him from Barbados' greatest batsman.
The selection of a World X1 starts with Garfield Sobers, then the west of the squad.

In reply to tc1

Really can't put any batsman that I have seen above Sobers. Steve Smith now is what Sobers was difference is Sobers never gave up bowling.

Opening's response has absolutely nothing to do with the Sobers being the best batsman on that list. Apart from my bias for Kanhai Sobers is the best I've ever seen even including Lara!
But it is never a good thing to enter a discussion and introduce a completely different and unrelated topic when one could've started their own.

The top three are in the correct order. A striking failure of Richards is his average is barely over 50 the magical watershed of the greats. One more game and Smoking Joe would be relegated to a 40 something average of the good not greats. Sobers and Lara are well over 50. Lara was an accumulator of sorts nervous against genuine pace. Marshall and Lee nearly decapitated the Prince. Sobers was total dominance so was Richards. Sobers batted with the tail and still scored massively. Did Richards bat with the tail? Sobers merits top spot. My top five Sobers, Richards, Lara, Headley, Weekes.

In reply to Brerzerk

Bro, the link isn't worth opening.

In reply to Brerzerk

1. Sobers
2. Richards
3. Lara
4. Headley
5. Weekes
6. Kanhai
7. Lloyd
8. Gayle
9. Chanderpaul
10. Greenidge

According to the link.

However, I might flip flop Lara/Viv, Gayle/ Chanderpaul.

Notable omission: Walcott

In reply to Curtis

I came up with the same list, with one exception: Kallicharan instead of Gayle

If only batsmen then Viv on top for me ....

In reply to Curtis

Worrell????
Walcott?
I love Kanhai and would find a way to put him on any list I can but Worrel with a 49+ avg and Walcott with a 56avg in 44tests must make those lists.

1. Sobers
2. Richards
3. Lara
4. Headley
5. Weekes
6. Walcott (a more consistently dominating LLoyd)
7. Kanhai
8. Lloyd
9. Chanderpaul
10. Kallicharan

Greenidge supreme batting skills places him at 7 after Babu Kanhai. Any number can play after Greenidge. Greenidge is on par with the top six apart from Sobers.

In reply to Brerzerk

In reply to Castled

In reply to Brerzerk

Nice one!! I know this is a joke when I see Chanderpaul’s name.

Chanderpaul ahead of Gayle, even tho Gayle was one of my favorite cricketer.

bajans, most of them, would stop traffic to see the babu but he eh no where close to their top ten

In reply to doosra

That may be true, just like you were clueless to Sir Everton, several Bajans your age may also be clueless to Rohan, and will place Sir Carl ahead of him.

What Weekes doin dey?

Steupes. No different than Daren Ganga scoring back to back hundreds against Oz.

Actually…….Ganga’s innings were more impressive as it came against a top team and bowling attack

In reply to imusic

stirred up a hornets nest there bro....here comes the opener

In reply to Jumpstart

Let him come.

My brother opening loves to talk about weekes scoring 5 centuries on the trot. And 5 consecutive centuries is no mean feat eh. That is clear

BUT

4 of them came against India.

Check fuh yuhself who he make dem runs against.

WORLD BEATERS!

Dat is why ah say Ganga more impressive.

I used to take my brother opening at his word. I should have known better as soon as he claimed Kraigg Brathwaite to be a great batsman

Having done some research now on Weekes….i wonder if he really was as good as they claim

In reply to imusic

i've been arguing this with him for a long lonnnng time

If this is about numbers then Kanhai does not belong on any top 10 list

In reply to kingdom

Both of them are also-ran.
First Gayle. He cannot make it ahead of three openers, Hunte, Greenidge, and Desmond. I hesitate to mention a 4th Fredo.
Chandrapaul would struggle to make an all time Guyana 11. He would have to make it in the middle order, but there is Kanhai, Kalli and Lloyd. Who will he replace? The number six spot is the anllrounder and it goes to Sir Carl.

In reply to imusic

I hope you have fun with openning, for your information Weekes was rated the best batsman of the 50s, better than Harvey, May, Cowdrey or any of his contemporaries.15 centuries in 45 test is not an easy feat with an avg 58.He played one of the best innings I had seen at the age of 40 against Bob Simpson Aussie team in 1965.

An excellent coach, a disciplinarian, who I saw every Tuesday from age 12 -17 .

No Rowe? The list is a good start but absolute rubbish as it just focuses on batsmen they may have seen on tape. Gayle made the list but they may have been clouded by his murderous T20 exploits.

In reply to tc1

I was an opening batsman, and Foffie William was my coach, some balls you don't even look at them, and the Imusic ball was pitch outside of the strip.
I agree with him and Jumpy about Ganga being T&T's best captain.

In reply to DukeStreet

In reply to imusic

In reply to imusic

Go ahead , the next great is Pollard , he dominated T20 club cricket.

In reply to imusic

So you think in terms of pure batsmanship skills, Gayle was better that Kalli (in his prime) and even Walcott?

In reply to imusic

nah greenidge and haynes belong there. A 45+ average in the 80s was like a 55+ avg. Only viv, gavaskar, javed miandad(who benefitted greatly from home umpires) and gregg chappell managed to finish their careers with 50+ averages. right after viv, its greenidge.

In reply to DukeStreet

“So you think in terms of pure batsmanship skills, Gayle was better that Kalli (in his prime) and even Walcott?”
Left them bro.

In reply to openning/tci

The shyte music man and jumpy post on Ganga is unworthy of a response . To mention Ganga in the same sentence as any of the immortal 3W's is beyond garbage. Its akin to placing Jackal Warner and the trini gun gangs in the same paragraph as Mother Theresa. Nuff said.

In reply to Castled

What do you expect from a musicman and Juvenile , of the various combination of players proposed by posters, the great tits only could muster 1 player in the top ten.

In reply to tc1

In reply to DukeStreet

Chris Gayle cannot hold a candle to Alvin Kallicharran in batsmanship.

But his sheer body of work has him ahead of one of my favourite batsmen (Kalli) of all time.

Walcott who?

Steupes

In reply to doosra
Viv would be the second best WI ODI batsman after Gayle.

In reply to CricSham
If we were talking about sheer batsmanship, then Lawerence Rowe and Carl Hooper would be in the top 6.

Chanderpaul would be hard pressed to make the top 20.

But we not talking about sheer batsmanship now are we?

In reply to imusic

How would Gayle survive on uncovered wickets?
As MJ stated you cannot compare players of different eras, he just wanted to be as good as Magic and Larry Bird, the two best players in the era he was coming into.

In reply to openning

In reply to imusic

Bro, I grew up in that era, especially after the rain.
Uncovered wickets separated the good players from the average ones, google and one article are not enough, speak to people who played or followed cricket during that period.
It is very similar to Sir Gary standing behind Lara at net practice and yelling, you have to watch the ball out of the bowler's hands.
How many of our modern players understand that?

In reply to imusic

And your attempts are as ridiculous as the Trump reference. Please stay with sports. You wish to discuss politics visit the other room. Thank you.

In reply to openning
What is most frightening is that Gayle is actually in this conversation. Conrad Hunte was the only batsman of his era that had a higher test average than his first class average. And at the last count I think he had something like 12 opening partners during his career.
I recall what Kanhai said about Hunte but then again what does Kanhai know about batting.

In reply to CricSham

In reply to Curtis

Brian Charles Lara
Vic

In reply to seaegg99

In reply to Jumpstart

In reply to openning

Walcott faced Statham, Trueman and Tyson as well as Lindwall and Keith Miller. he also faced Alan Davidson who was the great swing bowler.

In reply to openning

I'm sure you've seen me writing about the bradman matter. bradman never faced any of the innovations in international bowling....except bodyline. not the four prong, not reverse swing, not the leg cutter(a delivery pioneered by Denis the menace lillee) etc. never faced any of the deities of pace bowling. in fact if he was brown or black, we wouldn't be having this discussion about bradman being top dog despite playing test cricket in its late tinderbox years

In reply to tc1

great bowlers yes, nobody denying that.....but compare that to safraz, dennis the menace, jeff thomson, imran khan niazi, craig mcdermott, richard hadlee, bob willis, garth le roux, vince van der bijl not to mention the four horsemen and their disciples, minus one, in regional and county cricket.

In reply to tc1

In reply to Jumpstart

In reply to Kay

Thank you.

In reply to Kay

You have time to dignify that nonsense with a comment. Around 2000 I attended a dinner with Gary sobers in New York, and he said that the modern batsman looks like an astronaut when he goes out to bat.

In reply to CricSham

In reply to Kay

thats true. george headley averaged 60 plus against peers of his era, not a mention of him in the top 5 batsmen of all time. jacques kallis and kumar sangakara avg 55 and 57 respectively in the professional era of cricket, yet their names are nowhere near that list, nobody even considers them the best batsmen of their generation. In fact only Viv is mentioned by players of his generation, most notably bob willis, imrn khan and ian botham as being the greatest batsman of all time and viv only just averages over 50. The reason for that is because it is widely agreed, that viv played in the golden era of fast and swing bowling with each team having at least one world class paceman that qualified as all time greats(with the exception of india, and still then they had an all time great allrounder in Kapil Dev).

In reply to SnoopDog

you got to be kidding, Sobers is the greatest ever

In reply to Jumpstart

In reply to CricSham

In reply to CricSham

which is why i mentioned the other three guys.....sanga, kallis and viv played well over 100 tests

In reply to imusic

In reply to ponderiver

gayle isn't ahead of greenidge and haynes as a test bat. Gayle was one of the best things to happn to WI cricket, but he wasnt better than greenidge and haynes in tests.

In reply to Jumpstart

In reply to StumpCam

My brother now you are getting into wouda couda shudda. You can’t do that when you’re evaluating performance.
Exhibit A - Barry Richards.

In reply to Jumpstart

In reply to imusic

Your opinion isn't worth squat. Every creditable source in cricket regional and international rates GG and Dessie streets ahead of Gayle. You repeating BS about Gayle is superior doesn't change anything. You are ONE big trini pest and shyte stirrer. You are the only person saying the world is flat in 2024 and Ganga is a superior bat to the great Everton Weekes.

In reply to Jumpstart

Kool. Good analysts.

In reply to Curtis

These topics seem prevalent these days on the MB.

I won't venture much as everyone has his own criteria etc.
However any top 10 without Rohan B Kanhai is flawed.

The late great and most respected Frank M M Worrell said RBK
was better than all 3 Ws.
I respect that.

In reply to hubert

This is the first time I’m hearing about that Frank Worrell comment but it does not surprise me. I completely agree. No all -time West Indian 11 worth it’s salt can be without RBK.
I dun

In reply to CricSham

Who does RBK play ahead of?

In reply to imusic

That you ask that question tells us all we need to know. Walk good.

In reply to CricSham

.

In reply to CricSham

In reply to StumpCam

In fact that he missed out on playing in his prime only highlights his greatness. His stats were negatively impacted by him (Headley) who debut in 1930 playing his last five tests
between 1948-1952 in conditions, he'd never played in before! If he was able to play as many tests on a stretch as Bradman did and in only two countries who knows if is avg.
wouldn't be higher. Next thing they gonna say is he didn't face England's best attack. SMH

I am sure I would have made the list if I had the drive, determination and of course, skill.

I preferred to sip a cold one in the shade. Where are those awards?

How did they do the analysis to come up with the ranking? By average, by opposition, by winning percentage etc. ? Style doesn't not make you a top ranking batsmen for sure- result does! As to the comment about batting with the tail - you dont do much of that if you and those at the top perform and keep winning. Batting with the tail is a result of the ones paid to only bat not doing their only job

It indicates the even the tail performs just by seeing you at the other end.

In reply to openning

Everton Weekes was not as great as his numbers suggest. A phenomenal talent for sure. It’s not always the runs you make but when you make them also.

In reply to CricSham

Talent got Everton Weekes into the Empire cricket club, he did not have the upbringing of Frank or Clyde.
He did not have a high school education, so for anyone to say his numbers don't speak for themselves, just don't understand how hard it was for a poor boy to succeed.

In reply to openning

So now we’re not talking about Cricket we’re talking about hardship, poverty, and upbringing.
In that case, my friend, RBK, Butcher, Solomon, Madray should get very high marks, because back then dem likkle bhai from Berbice did not stand a chance to get selected. You had to be playing in Georgetown. It took the very same Clyde Walcott to ask the question : Don’t guys inna country have talent too? Walcott did a great service to them likkle boys when he came and then decided scout, play and if I’m not mistaken, he also captained BG.
I take nothing away from Everton Weekes my brother, but he is not there.

In reply to CricSham


Are you going by numbers or have you seen Everton before he was close to retiring?
You better call a friend, Dukes already confessed he had to get help, he knew very little of him.
It was former players that advised him.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/everton-weekes-53241
https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/rohan-kanhai-52287

In reply to CricSham

In reply to CricSham

Everton Weekes was adjudged the best batsman in the World from 1950- 1958 , better than Colin Cowdrey, May Peter, Dennis Crompton and even Len Hutton all English players, as well as Aussie Neil Harvey and Colin McDonald. A feat that Rohan never achieved. Most historian agreed the top five batsmen are Sobers, Richards, Lara, Weekes and Headley.

To discount a batsman avg is like discounting a student who get a 100 on his test and accepting another who only grade a 50.

In reply to tc1

They discount # of dismissals by a keeper, so why not average for a Batsman?

In reply to seaegg99

“The late great and most respected Frank M M Worrell said RBK was better than all 3 Ws”.
Hubert posted this earlier on this thread. Can’t argue with Frank Worrell.

Hey...basketball analogy. How would you rate Dr J, Julius Erving, against all the other greats? Jordan, Magic, Kobe, Kareem, Bird, Chamberlain, Durant, Le Bron...

In reply to tc1

Ken Barrington has a higher average than Gary sobers. Is he a better batsman than Sobers. Average is statistics and there are three kinds of them: lies, more lies, and statistics.
I will ignore the he said, she said nonsense. I love when guys quote this person said this and that person said that. Where is the source?

In reply to Curtis

Dr J, as exciting a player as he was, is behind all of those you named

In reply to CricSham

In reply to imusic

I think Kanhai is similar to Dr J, in terms of how much ability he had, compared to the other greater greats.

In reply to Curtis

For me the Dr. is the boss, the one with the Connie Hawkins 'moves.

In reply to CricSham

have you even seen an article that listed Barrington as a top 6 batsman. Kanhai scored 15 centuries in 79 test matches Weekes scored the same in 48 matches, it took Kanhai 31additional matches to achieve Weekes output but accordingly you suggest that Weekes was not that good, but Kanhai s better.

In reply to imusic

In reply to Curtis

Having watched DR J play many times. I see Jordan and Kobe as his clones, just that they shot many many more shots. Connie Hawkins was a great player but Julius was better. He was the one of the main reasons for the ABA/NBA mearger.

In reply to seaegg99

Not to make it a BB post, but the man that change the ABA was Spencer deadwood Haywood.

In reply to SnoopDog

we all forgot the Black Bradman, George Alphonso Headly!

In reply to dwinston

No need to mention George Alphonso Headley, he is one of the first three players' named.

In reply to tc1

He was not in Dr. J' class.

In reply to tc1

“have you ever seen an article that listed Barrington as a top 6 batsman”

Bro, my point precisely. even though Ken B has a higher average than many of the batsmen that legitimately belong in any top 10. In other words, it’s not always about average. But while we are there, you keep harping on Everton Weekes average of 58. Once again, I acknowledge the man was a special talent, but he’s not as great as that number suggests. He averages in the low 20s against Australia and the low 30s against England the two top teams of his era. He averages 100+ against India one of the weakest teams of his era.
The second stats that is always thrown up is the five consecutive centuries. Please go and take a look at the results of those matches. West Indies batted once only in three times of the five test because many of his teammates made hundreds throughout that series and secondly, even though West Indies enforced the follow on I believe in three of the matches India was able to draw four of the five test matches because the wickets were all dead… dead as a door nail.
You have your opinion and I have mine but a closer look at the numbers do tell a different story. Peace. I done.

In reply to CricSham

Please elaborate on why Everton Weekes, since you have seen him and is able to tell us why.
Let us hear facts and reasons.
The man has an unbroken record of more than 60 years of five consecutive test centuries, being considered to be one of the world's best during that era.
Here is info so you can learn the greatest of this W.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everton_Weekes

https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/everton-weekes-53241

1) Darren Ganga
2) K Powell
3) Campbell
4) Brathwhite
5) Samuels
6) DS Smith
7) Shai Hope
Blackwood
9) WW Hinds
10) Darren Bravo
11) Stuart Williams

In reply to CricSham

Show me a top ten best in the world where avg is not a perquisite in making the case. Your opinion is yours and the majority of knowledgeable cricket fans say otherwise.

In reply to CricSham

In reply to openning

So he never average 50 against either.

Couldn’t even manage 40 against Oz

And those were the only international class bowling attacks of that time.

Minnow Bully Definitely overrated. Cricsham is right.

RBK for Weekes. Plus….nobody ever stop traffic in Bridgetown fuh Weekes (as if it even had traffic in Bridgetown in dem days…..but dat is another topic)

In reply to imusic

39.6 is rounded up to 40.00.

In reply to imusic

Cricsham is a liar, a boldface one.
He copied Jumpy, instead of doing his homework.
Guyana was always my second favourite team, with Rohan being the best, and Basil being my favourite batsman.

In reply to openning

In reply to tc1

No one messed with my favourite batsman.

In reply to openning

He is the great one to me, great coach and he always address you as 'lil man'. Of the 4 teams both played against the great Kanhai only had 1 avg that was higher than Weekes.