Anybody willing to put Value on Sammys

In reply to Cheeks


In the dottieland, they get tv, radio and internet after 2009? Sammy's appointment as captain in teams he wasn't even a regular in(and none at all in tests) was the culmination of the windward island hydra's fight with Chris gayle and jerome taylor, and by extension bravo, pollard and sarwan. Gayle and bravo were always close friends. sarwan was regularly in TT because his best friends in cricket were from here.Amazon warriors last year shared a video with pollard, bravo, narine, bishoo and sarwan meeting up after one of the games at providence and showing flashbacks of them playing together in WI colors. So the t20 teams that we sent up were not disunited or needed some kinda messiah-like figurehead to get the team to gel. all the stars were very close friends and the only person who wasn't close to them was samuels and he wasn't even liked by his fellow JA teammates.

What the west indies lacked in 2009 and 2010 was IPL experience. bravo and pollard both got ipl contracts out of their performances in the 2009 champions league where trinidad reached the final and changed how t20s were played in the process. I think sammy was playing under waste of floyd Reifer's second string team vs bangladesh while the tournament was going on. So too did adrian bharath and lendl simmons. And that tournament took place after the 2009 wt20 where we reached the semifinal but lost to an amazing sri lanka team that bamboozled everyone except pakistan in the final. in 2010 we lost to australia after dirk nannes had bowled gayle first ball in the quarterfinals. by 2012....rampaul, bravo, gayle, narine, edwards, pollard, samuels and russell all had at least one ipl season under them. in fact the only people who didn't have ipl experience were sammy, badree, ramdin, lendl and charles. and ramdin, lendle and badree had already been to the champions league twice, a tournament as hard or even harder than the ipl. That's the reason we won. we had a team not only of powerhitters but a team that had experience that wasn't there in 2009 and 2010. the experience of playing in different conditions and playing under pressure all the time. sammy was almost negligible in the entire equation

In reply to Cheeks



There is some truth here...

it will go down like SHARK OIL and BUCKLEYS ...but its the truth and its good for us all.

I standing by my premise that Sammy brings value

In reply to nick2020




KICKS N GIGGLES??

On a serious note..

If posters would examine WHY they detest Sammy...then perhaps we could get somewhere...but that will call for maturity and honest with self chatter...men dont like that unless they drunk ...but this is THE RUM SHOP...ent?

In reply to powen001

it had no bajans on the team sop you would not know. dwayne smith didn't even make the starting xi of the 2012 tea. How could Chris Gayle, the first captain to beat wi england in a series in 11 years, the first and only wi cappo to win a test in south africa ever and the first wi captain to not lose in nz in 13 years be a poor captain and not a leader of men? sammy brought nothing to that side but evangelical enthusiasm which was a mask for the fact that he was the worst player on he team.

In reply to Jumpstart

Jumpy...you should try standup.

In reply to powen001



Because he became the poster child for the ills of West Indies Cricket? A player that many felt was not good enough to make the team and for the people with a deep seated agenda a WICB's lackey. So he could do not right (not get any credit for wins) and he could do plenty wrong (hide from bowling even though he batted with the tail).

We have had some poor captains - Lara, Shiv, Gayle - who were all could command a spot on the team (remember this became the fan's mantra). I never considered Sammy a poor captain. And initially he certainly was a good enough bowler to make the team on that merit. His batting was not pleasing to watch but he certainly came good a few times for us.

I thank him for being an instrumental part of the success of our 2010's T20 cricket. He is no great but he helped bring some joy back to WI cricket.

In reply to powen001

Btw Jumpy could find 10 pages of fault with Sammy but blind to Pollard.

Where is the credibility in that?

In reply to nick2020


brian lara didn't draw with the best team in the world as captain, didn't win the champions trophy in 2004 and reach the finals of the next tournament? Gayle, as stated earlier was the first wi captain in 11 years to beat the english in a test series.

In reply to Cheeks

you should start to communicate in language instead of unintelligible grunts

In reply to Jumpstart

Yeah. You tie up yourself in knots and get sensitive when you allow hate to overpower reason, logic and evidence.

All you doing is frustrating yourself while Sammy out there breaking records and bringing joy to genuine WI fans....even post retirement.

In reply to Jumpstart

He was still a poor Captain.

In reply to nick2020

then that must mean sammy was a poor captain because he lost to a poor aussie team, could not beat a poor pakistan team. beaten twice by india, home and abroad and embarrassed in England. as i stated sammy's only claims are the world cups and the nz win here in 2012 against a team that was racially divided. then he got hammered by india during sachin's farewell series and battered in nz again in 2013, the only saving graces being a double ton by bravo and a century by ramdin

In reply to powen001

Sammy has West Indies analyst in his squad.

In reply to Jumpstart

The big outfield excuse for Polly shoulda be my lesson with you. Your justifications get sillier with every post ...you know why?? Because you refuse to believe results and hard data.

In reply to Jumpstart

yuh know- Nick unravel you real easy.

You like Imusic and some other choice Trinis does only see that red flag with a black stripe...

that you talking to me and believe that you are NOT shooting yourself in the foot bout No Bajans on the team foolishness...

Sammy for ALLL his obvious limitations has surpassed MANY better skilled, prepared and talented players in his era- simply the facts.

That Everyone recognizes his man management skills and verbally say so...apparently means diddly for yall and thats sad.


I am a huge Lara fan but Lara sucked in the leadership department.

I am a huge Gayle fan and I thought Gayle got some rotten ends of the stick handed to him-

Sammy got what he got... " A chance" and has never looked back but built on it.

I dont argue with the plain facts or romanticize for my Starboys either.

In reply to powen001

Y’all wasting so much time and energy discussing a worthless cricketer like Scammy.

In reply to powen001


and that is the issue genius. the massive decline in west indian performances can be attributed to sammy's ascension and the behaviors of the board that caused it. Sammy could not make the teams in any of the three formats. yet he was appointed captain. the facts are that sammy was beaten by india, home and away in an era where india was being whitewashed wherever they went. in 2011 alone, they were whitewashed by england and australia. next he was beaten by australia here in the caribbean, probably the weakest aussie team to visit our shores in decades. he beat a divided nz side after the world cup. we know this because ross taylor described the environment as toxic in his autobiography and yes, racism did come into the picture. the next year we lost to nz and india in sachin's makeshift farewell series. those are marked declines from what happened under gayle. We beat england for the first time in 11 years, we did not lose in nz for the first time in 13 years. we beat south africa for the very first time in a test match in SA.

Sammy inherited the side with the best t20 players in the world and a clear template to win t20 games on the subcontinent. You don't need much more than that. Gayle was by far the best t20 player batsman in the word, bravo was its premiere allrounder and pollard and narine had gained ipl experience. Trinidad's red force had changed the way t20 cricket is played and sammy just took that script. he was still using that script in 2024, hence the fact that we could only beat one full member. The players who didn't have ipl experience had champions league experience, that would be ramdin, rampaul, badree and simmons. by 2016, russell had ipl experience and it showed in that world cup. my dog could have captained that team and won the tournament.

the dottie contraption that appointed him damaged west indies cricket in so many ways. firstly, the exiling of gayle and the destruction of sarwan's career by the the ugly coach(and we can only assume he had the boards support because they never dissented and yes sarwan came back but he was clearly shot by that time and a very good cricketing career had been ended by west indian pig headedness that is seen way too often) set the same template for the destruction of Darren Bravo's career as well. every time we had a batsman who could bat, his career has been cut short so now we are left with glaring incompetence in the top and middle order. I feel though that Carty will buck that trend. he can actually bat. Dwayne Bravo's test career ended when this talentless joker became captain because he needed a space and could not make the team other than being captain.

proof of sammy's lack of any kind of captaincy/coaching credentials is that when presented with a team of less quality than the WI t20 team, he's won nothing. Ramdin won 3 caribbean t20 titles and captained the warriors to 2 cpl finals. Dwayne bravo won 4 cpl titles with two seperate franchises. pollard has won 2 cpl titles and reached two finals as captain. Chris gayle has won two cpl titles, rovman powell has a cpl title as captain, even Einstein jason holder, the worst captain since richardson has a cpl title. sammy has reached one final and that is it. nothing as captain, nothing as coach.
i know you won't agree with me because a generation of talentless bajans were the recipients of the second string team formula that started when sammy was appointed cappo.

In reply to SnoopDog


excellent description

In reply to powen001


proof is in the pudding. before shamar, josh, mckenzie and hodge beat australia in brisbane, the last time a west indian team did not lose to Australia or any #1 ranked team was in march and april 1999. the captain then was Brian Charles Lara....who made over 500 runs in 7 innings at an avg of 90. He also won an ICC champions trophy and reached the final of another. In both tournaments, young west indian players came of age. Sarwan was named as the best young player of the 2004 champions trophy and player of the tournament. Gayle was player of the tournament two years later when we reached the final. Yes lara could be moody, everyone know's that. but to say he was a poor captain when only gayle can compare to his achievements is comical and makes no sense. I've spoken about Gayle's accomplishments. And gayle was well on his way to being the best WI captain since clive and viv before the board shot themselves in the foot

In reply to powen001

It's simple: post the amazing stats of Sammy leadership in the CPL...

WE await.....

In reply to powen001

Head Coach in franchisee and international team.....two totally different........ comparison between two ....chalk and cheese......

Franchisee team is built around few very good/ great foreign T20 players..... with some locals....club and international players..... it's more a commercial entertainment event.......players are picked for commercial success, if a player or coach fail....kicked out next season...

International team built around known talented players and some newbies..... having potential.... accountability regarding failure ....... zero.....West Indies perspective...

Sammy nominal success in franchisee cricket and failure in international cricket speaks for itself....

When Sammy was captain....he was captain of both red ball and white ball.....the red ball team players barring Braithwaite....non could prosper....Sammy as captain failed to unearth new players or lead from front....his stats as player and captain abysmal....his victories came against lowly Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.....6 successive victory....blanked out against all top teams....

While the white ball team , itself was self sufficient with Gayle,Bravo ,Pollard et al at peak.....Sammy just kept his mouth shut and kept clapping....team won 2 world cups...so much so .....in 2016 World Cup....just check his stats as player....both with bat and ball.....Nothing...

Being a guy, with total support of administration....he got the job as Head Coach of West Indies, without any credentials or transparency......His team selection was biased.....his tactics totally outdated as was evident during World Cup qualifier in Zimbabwe......this guy is hyped up....few franchise games victories can't camouflage his abject international ICC tournament failures....

In reply to Onionman0

when west indians accept that politics primarily has wi cricket in the position it is, we will make progress. all these people coming out blaming t20s, ipl, india.......hogwash. that might be the case for new zealand or sri lanka. but the fall of the west indies and pakistan has everything to do with their incompetence of their boards and their inability to see beyond their noses

In reply to Jumpstart

You are carrying tons of baggage and you are extremely hateful. That's your issue. The end.

You not even an honest broker. You reserve your hate for specific people. There is lots of blame to go around but yet, some folks' issues are sacrosanct for you. This ain't the movies with good guys and bad guys as much as you would like to present it as such.

Let go of the hate ..and then you might make some sense.

In reply to Cheeks

all that hogwash to escape from the fact that sammy was not a player of international standard, that he was very fortunate to captain teams that had ipl experience and/or championship credentials and that his ascension to the top ended the careers of several very good west indian players. punto finale. facts change emotions but emotions do not change facts

In reply to Onionman0



More nonsense.

The prevailing argument until now, is that Sammy's success in international cricket as captain..ie 2 worldcups is predicated on a few great T20 players ie Gayle, Bravo, Pollard, Narine et al and that his limited success as CPL captain/ coach somehow demonstrates that his leadership is overrated. Now you come with a whole other argument to the contrary. Y'all can't even make up your mind what your argument is.

Again...that's what hate does. It ahem..eschews reason, logic and facts.