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The first player to reach 15,000 missed shots.

#passfirstguy

Doh kill me Cheeks and Walco. Just giving props on milestones.

In reply to JahJah

Big up

In reply to Chrissy

In reply to StumpCam

In reply to StumpCam

In reply to JahJah

“Take chances, make mistakes. That's how you grow.” - Mary Tyler Moore.
And man, has James grown.

In reply to JahJah

Nothing ventured nothing gained. Still the best to lace em up after Magic, with MJ and Kobe right behind.

Dat said with everything else happening in de Yoo Ess. Me eh even have energy for bball debate.

Looking at Musky, DJT, Tim Grinning Fool, L Graham, Byron Donkey et al..makes me realize, dat relatively speaking, Lebron is an exemplary human.

In reply to JahJah

Yes! 50,000 career regular-season and playoff points! First to do so!

Lebron James is an Original!

In reply to kgbcan

tell him

Michael "AIR" Jordan....average points per game.....30.1 regular season......33.4 playoffs. Still a record. And that's when defenses mulled you.

Lebron James playing in a game devoid of defense avf ppg 25.1!

That tells the story. Not the cocamamee bush league of today that inspires no one and has led to people ignoring the league like a plague!

Lebron is in his 22nd season....has never played less than 45 games in a season. Took his team to playoffs 17 times.

That is with the constant picking and choosing top stars.....not just players, top stars to play with.

Jordan played 15 yrs. Missed all but 18 games one year and all but 17 another.

Carried his team to playoffs all 13 of his full years. Back in a time, again, when you could win by just mulling people....he was still a wrecking force.

Multiple Jordan's avg vs the advantage in years played today.....and NO, yrs played is not an individual thing, as it has multiplied considerably in ALL sports the last 2 decades for multiple reasons.....and you will see that Jordan is still the GOAT.

And a million times more exciting and revolutionary to the game.

Jordan brought eyeballs to the game.

Lebron has contributed to a departure of eyeballs!

Why every time someone praise Lebron some take it as a proclamation that he is better than Jordan?

Jordan was a dynamic offensive player and yes he played in a tougher league system, no one knows had Lebron born earlier he might adapt to that style and still be great but we don't know this, it's one of the reason it is tuff to compare across different eras.

The best ability is availability and Lebron playing at such a high level in his 40s is an amazement by itself.

Both Jordan and Lebron are Great!

In reply to kgbcan

EVERYONE is playing into their 40's....Even football players are playing into their it's when a football player touching his 30's 20 years ago was almost worthless.

Sports medicine as well as health tech and personal training has do e wonders for today's athletes.

If LeBron played back then? He would be beat down like Shaq was beat down....You can protract a player playing now over then.....much easier.....the NBA game today is less intense than the NBA All star game was back then.....what was guys like Michael doing in those games?

Fact is Jordan averaged way more per game in a way tougher League.....FACT undisputed.

Played less Seasons.....fact indisputable.

Did not have the tech of today or health advancements.....yet his work ethic was out the spectrum.

Extrapolate that.....those things don't change with era....it's personal drive.

And I’m thinking it’s Championships that matters!

In reply to Ayenmol

Ok but are they playing within a couple of points of their career average?

Don't mistake me for a Lebron over Jordan guy, That said, I can still recognize Lebron's greatness!

Do you think Lebron James is Great?

In reply to kgbcan

What is LeBron James great at?

In reply to Ayenmol

I asked...

You



I guess I have my answer...

No more debate is necessary.

For me, the best, and most underrated part of LeBron’s game is his basketball IQ

Maybe even the best ever at that. Certainly up there with Magic.

In reply to kgbcan

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/player-with-most-turnovers-in-nba-history

Show that to Velo.

By the way, how does most points and most missed shots fit into that false pass first narrative?

Not questioning the greatness [definitely top 15 ], so don't get me wrong. I am just highlighting false narratives and the hypocrisy of the bought and paid for media.

In reply to StumpCam

In reply to imusic

How is something that the media keeps talking about and pumping up underrated? Trump really has changed the world. Time magazine's person for the year fully deserved!

In reply to Cheeks

DWL. Magic is way behind MJ, the offensive-defensive juggernaut, bro. Let's not go there.



Compared to all those louts, anyone would be a saint. But don't sit there thinking this back stabber and waggonist is an exemplary human. Let's keep things basketball. That's when you get back yu henergy.

In reply to Chrissy

He is the best of all time

In reply to imusic
True, True

In reply to JahJah

Yes...and still +7,424 so far in career.

In reply to Cheeks

We still talking about LeBron vs MJ again???? Big loud steeeeeuuuuuuupppps.

LeBron not even fit to be discussed in the same breath as Kobe

He needs to sit down and send his son back to college. LeBron is cheeks!!!!

In reply to kgbcan

The most sensible take I have read. I got to New York in 1972 and have been an avid fan since. I was blessed to see prime Gervin, Doc and David Thompson in the ABA before the Merger. I saw prime MJ and all of the other greats live at the Garden, the Nassau Collisium and in Jersey. I celebrate all great accomplishments and have no desire to establish who is the so called GOAT. Am still trying to figure out how praising LBJ somehow gets MJ into the conversation as though greatness is reserved for one person. Very boring in my humble opinion.

In reply to NYCGURU

This is exactly how I am...Thank you sir!

In reply to kgbcan

The question is valid.....What is he great at?

What is LeBron greatest contribution to the game?

Teaming up with other superstars rather than playing against them?

Or the made up basketball IQ nonsense?

In reply to Ayenmol

Do you consider any player in the last 15 to 20 years Great?

if yes...who?

In reply to kgbcan

Answer the question....then we can proceed....

In reply to Ayenmol

Basketball!

In reply to kgbcan

See? You cannot enumerate what makes him great on the court.

Not a dunker....not an exceptional three point shooter. Was only interested in passing when he was scared to bear the responsibility for the loss...not great at three throws....not a creator or artistic player.

Lebron is a talented player....a very well built guy who happened to play in an era where the League and it's partners went to all lengths to set apart a player to sell the League!

Even so, the public mostly rejected that by turning off their Televisions.

A guy who was scared to compete even in a watered down, no defense league and preferred to go to great lengths to join his greatest competitors to smooth his path.

A guy who has benefited from such decisions and admittedly his well built natural gift as well as advances in tech, medicine and sports science and health to have an elongated career.

Which is what has allowed him to amass all these stats....not any surpassing ability on the court.

I have never seen LeBron do a single amazing thing on a basketball court that I can attribute solely to him.

He's a Stat agregator.

By all public appearances, lebron is an upstanding person. Not plagued with the personal traits and weaknesses Jordan had.

Gambling, womanizing etc.

But on a Basketball court? Michael wowed....he did things no one else had done.He was fearless and beared full responsibility for the win or loss of his team to the point he had to be forced to give up the ball to his teammates for the win....so driven he was to take the most difficult situations on himself.

He was a legendary trainer....in fact, it was reported that Jordan was one of the first players who did extra weight lifting targeting areas no other bball players did. He set a new standard.

I've said it often and will say it again ....I never had to check the stat sheet to appreciate Jordan's impact on the game....it was apparent as soon as you turned on the tv.

He made the game what it is today.

He elevated the game and is still highly imitated.

What Imitation has lebron effected?

Magic was an exceptional passer....had moves on the court that no one else had or perfected what others used sparingly.

No one.... not even Jordan could hit a needed shot at the opportune time like magic.... just throw ap a shot from anywhere and boom....just when they needed it....sky hook...ridiculous pass.... I remember erthat!

What do you remember from LeBron?

I put LeBron on the same plane as guys like Drexler....just more hyped and focused and I tent on success.

In reply to Ayenmol

I am discussing Lebron and you keep bringing up Jordan...so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGgtTm83ico



With all due respect to you I will more tend to listen to these iconic figures who are very close to the sport.

To your point about Lebron not being exceptional in any specific area...

Wayne Gretzky was not exceptional in any area...not hard shot, not fast skater, not a great stickhandler, not physically dominant... but still he is regarded as the greatest in Hockey.


Personally, I think Lebron is great and since you want to bring Jordan into this, I will say this...
Given a choice, I would prefer to watch Jordan play.

Both Jordan and Lebron are great players!

In reply to kgbcan

Why would you waste your time debating the merits of LBJ as a Basketball player. I worked with a Trini guy at Morgan Stanley many years ago. He coined a term 'Rock Men' to describe West Indian men. He said never waste your time debating them because they know everything and would argue points that are Universally accepted. Messi not good or LBJ has not contributed anything to the game are examples of Rock Men rants. Another jem, never get into an argument with a fool, because they will drag you to their level and beat you on experience. Have a great Friday Sir and never underestimate humans capacity to hate or to be bothered by other people's success...

In reply to kgbcan

Cool....you get it....and i think ot is undisputed as the NBA has been relegated to pre Jordan days when it comes to interest in the league during LeBron time as face of the Leaague.

Great player? Of course......So is Drexler, Curry, Mailman, Isaiah, Hakeem, jabber and on and on.....

Not Greatest of all time.....not for a moment. His rings make him a notch above but mostly as part of duo's.....manufactured prebuilt duo's!

In reply to NYCGURU

I see what you mean

In reply to kgbcan

Seeking refuge in those using tired old internet come backs while claiming they don't care about someone they are going out of their way to personally attack over an argument involving people who do not know they exist?

Yeah...that's someone not motivated by personal issues.

SMH and moving on.

In reply to kgbcan

The most turnovers and most missed shots (pass first).

These are stat lines that the media, thanks to Klutch sports, are trying to hide. When it was Russell they let be known, but when they found that Russell wasn't the greatest exponent of this, they went QUIET!!!!!!!!

DWL

Those of us who cannot be fooled, see through this nonsense. This is why the NBA has been nose diving ever since when.

They better start making this league compelling again or else it will die a gruesome death.

Now, this dude is stepping to Stephen A Smith because his son, who he forced into the league, SUCKS?

LOL

Where was this smoke for Sonnen?

In reply to Ayenmol

Bag a nonsense from someone who has obviously never played the sport. Not gonna waste my time with any further response.

I do not buy the demise of the NBA argument. There has been an assault on the league just like there has been an assault on DEI. Largely because the best players are black and the league is dominated by black folk. Do NOT fall for the rope a dope ...just like how many black people fell for the DEI is all about transgender argument.

LBJ's biggest haters are the ones who feel he should shut up and dribble...or hate the idea of a rich powerful black athlete...and then you have the MJ fanboys who are probably even more ridiculous.

Truth be told...the players have never been more skillful that now.

Jordan was clearly above his peers at the time...now the skills are much more evenly balanced out.

Look no further than the slam dunk competition ...the kinda dunks that won back in the day ..would be boring as crap now.

I repeat ..do not fall for the NBA is dying nonsense being pushed by racist assholes.

They are dying to convince us that the league needs more European players.

There's a whole generation of younger fans who don't give rats ass about how we feel about the Jordan/ Magic/ Barkley eras and before them...but they love Ja Morant, and Jason Tatum et al.

To try to sneakily blame any perceived issue with the league on one man is pure nonsense.

There were lots of arguments bout Jordan getting favorable calls once he became the face of the league.....and you know what...the NBA still thrives.

I still watch and enjoy the games and I refuse to be fooled by a media assault on the game. I agree with the players...people like Stephen A and one of my faves Charles Barkley need to wise up about the agenda and not support the BS.

In reply to Cheeks

I AGREE WITH THIS TAKE

Michael Jordan
Steph Curry
Magic Johnson

My all time 3 favourite basketball players

After Michael Jordan, Steph has had the biggest positive impact on the game.

In reply to Cheeks

I do not believe that for one moment.

Yes, the league has marketed itself as the hip hop league, it's fault. But give me a break.

The NFL has a larger black workforce and most stars are blacck.....and it is growing and is at an echelon that basketball has never been at..


The NFL also has never had as many black qb as it has now and it has only increased in popularity as it has!

I have not looked at a single NBA game yet this Season....and chances are I won't as I did not last year....it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the quality of the game.

In reply to imusic


I agree mostly with that list.

Steph is great....tremendous shooter, ball handler, and pretty adept at the rim also.

But he also benefits greatly from the rules today. How often has LeBron made him look just OK in the playoffs till they got KD?

He would not prosper in Jordan's NBA like today....but would still standout as a deadly spot shooter and would get shots off due to his ball handling, but not the impact allowed today.

Steph is my favorite player today also. But his greatest impact is the dependency on the three point shot today which has diluted the product and turned the league into 3 point shooting and fast break dunks and nothing else.

I was thinking about this earlier....the Warriors were most deadly when they first started this trend and no one else did it.

As soon as it became common, there was greater stress in each shot and it became a must make rather than a bonus....the overall quality and thrill went away.

Overall it has contributed to the demise in skill play. Dowwn in the trenches.

That's where the drama takes place in basketball!

In reply to imusic

I don't agree or disagree.

Lebron is a human. Mj, Magic, Kobe all had their issues. I don't understand this need to somehow nitpick at a flawed human being. Lots of things about Lebron are GREAT.

What we have here is a man who obviously feels that Stephen A has 'gone beyond the pale' with his criticism. We may agree or disagree, but all of us have a point where we feel like we had enough. Adrenaline flowing ..testosterone flowing..in the heat of the battle, I think he made a snap judgment. Like all of us we will have our actions judged and opined on. I respect all the various opinions on the issue...but Lebron as a father made a call. End of story.

I really do not care for Stephen A though. I find him an irritating twat.

It is also not fair for Stephen A to be quoting Bronny's stats with the way he plays for the Lakers ...3 minutes here...4 minutes there in garbage time etc. C'mon man. Its just nasty.

Anton Watson was the pick (54th) before Bronny...does he suck? His stats better than Bronny?

In reply to imusic

Matter of perspective. Many people hate the fact that so many players jack up a bunch of threes now. That is a big part of Steph's legacy. That's why I have my fave style of player etc too...but I don't get into the GOAT argument. Just like you ..I have my list of fave players ..and Magic is still no.1.

Lebron is the best all-round player ever in my opinion.

Swiss army knife kinda player.

In reply to Ayenmol

You can pretend that the NFL is not under threat too. The more black QBs show up...then the murmurings about DEI will escalate.

Colin Kaepernick found out.

Why do you think DJT wanted the Chiefs to win so badly? The NFL has always been about white strategists (coaches and QBs) while the black folks have been the brute force ...fast and strong objects. Give it time. The NFL is just a step behind the NBA with colored folk in 'strategic' roles.

If you've been following the NBA then you would see how inferior white players were always touted for their IQ. Even now...Jokic and Doncic, both great players to be fair, are more loved by many Americans of a certain ilk than the American players.

In reply to Cheeks

Bigger legacy……..the average human (height wise) believes there’s an actual chance they have a shot to play in the NBA

People look at your average NBA player in awe. Literally larger than life.

With Steph….hes larger than life AND “one of us” simultaneously. His impact on the game in that regard is unparalleled.

In reply to imusic

Fair enough. I don't doubt his impact on the game at all. Massive.

I have to say though..looking at the gym here I walk away in disgust. All the kids as soon as they get the ball in their hands ...run behind the 3 pt line and hoist it up. I just don't play anymore because I gine cuss people out and get myself in trouble.

What they don't see is how disciplined Steph is and how much work he put in to get to that level.