@CCW wrote:

@Jumpstart wrote:

@CCW wrote

Ok reasonable points but at the same time there is no standard age where your reflexes etc are diminishing cos obviously every individual is different.....Shiv went either 6 or 7 inns without a 50 before being jettisoned yuh reckon that was enough proof to say he was washed up....also the fact that he was just 86 runs short of Lara was coincedental in the timing of him being moved on an by whom???....just asking!🤔

Shiv never went into bat above 5 in the last 15 years of his career. when lara, sarwan and gayle were in the side, all with averages over 40, the probability of him coming into the team with the shine off the new ball was relatively high. by the time 2015 came around, in a team purged of its best players, there was only one man in the side with an avg over 40 other than chanderpaul, bravo and he would be gone by the end of the next year. so whatever issues tiger now had with eyesight, reflexes, general in match fitness would have been and were exposed big time. it didn't make any sense to keep him. if the test careers of gayle, the two bravos and sarwan weren't interrupted or destroyed, maybe shiv could have played on but in a side where nobody averaged over 40 save one man, it didn't make sense. and shiv himself knew that, which is why he never moved up even when the lineup became Kraigg, powell, hope, bravo, blackwood.

All very interesting but I'm dealing with specifics as follows......so in your opinion when Shiv was axed by Simmons 86 runs short of Lara's all time test runs was sheer coincidence???....just asking!

.

that is unfortunately how great cricketers are dealt with in the west indies....mind you, simmons never had the luxury like julius of being sole selector, so we have no idea whether he advocated for or against tiger staying. Brian lara was told he wasn't being selected for the england series of 2007, despite being only47 runs away from being the first man to 12000 runs AND despite his last test series yielding 448 runs in three tests at an avg of 90, in a series where only he and mohammad yosuf averaged over 50 for the series), viv wanted to play in the 1992 world cup and was denied, even though he was still making decent runs for the WI as the england series of 1991 showed. if anything, shiv failed to read the temperature in the room, especially the WI's disrespect for great players like himself, as seen from the examples above

@Jumpstart wrote:

@CCW wrote:

@Jumpstart wrote:

@CCW wrote

Ok reasonable points but at the same time there is no standard age where your reflexes etc are diminishing cos obviously every individual is different.....Shiv went either 6 or 7 inns without a 50 before being jettisoned yuh reckon that was enough proof to say he was washed up....also the fact that he was just 86 runs short of Lara was coincedental in the timing of him being moved on an by whom???....just asking!🤔

Shiv never went into bat above 5 in the last 15 years of his career. when lara, sarwan and gayle were in the side, all with averages over 40, the probability of him coming into the team with the shine off the new ball was relatively high. by the time 2015 came around, in a team purged of its best players, there was only one man in the side with an avg over 40 other than chanderpaul, bravo and he would be gone by the end of the next year. so whatever issues tiger now had with eyesight, reflexes, general in match fitness would have been and were exposed big time. it didn't make any sense to keep him. if the test careers of gayle, the two bravos and sarwan weren't interrupted or destroyed, maybe shiv could have played on but in a side where nobody averaged over 40 save one man, it didn't make sense. and shiv himself knew that, which is why he never moved up even when the lineup became Kraigg, powell, hope, bravo, blackwood.

All very interesting but I'm dealing with specifics as follows......so in your opinion when Shiv was axed by Simmons 86 runs short of Lara's all time test runs was sheer coincidence???....just asking!

.

that is unfortunately how great cricketers are dealt with in the west indies....mind you, simmons never had the luxury like julius of being sole selector, so we have no idea whether he advocated for or against tiger staying. Brian lara was told he wasn't being selected for the england series of 2007, despite being only47 runs away from being the first man to 12000 runs(despite his last test series yielding 448 runs in three tests at an avg of 90, in a series where only he and mohammad yosuf averaged over 50 for the series), viv wanted to play in the 1992 world cup and was denied, even though he was still making decent runs for the WI as the england series of 1991 showed. if anything, shiv failed to read the temperature in the room, especially the WI's disrespect for great players like himself, as seen from the examples above

So i guess ur non-committal on the specific wow....didn't think it was that difficult a question assuming you understood the implications....an there was i thinking it's either yes,no or not sure but evidently not ....anyhow dnt tek worries!!😀