More recently, Holding has said very nice things about Gavaskar’s batting. Maybe time away from the battlefield encourages combatants to view their adversaries more fondly. But a look behind the numbers tells a rather different story of Gavaskar versus the men from the Caribbean. The little Indian opener was a master technician and one of the game’s greats. But he never really conquered the West Indies’ exceptional pace units. He should not be rated less highly because of that. Few batters did.

https://garfieldrobinson1.substack.com/p/did-gavaskar-really-dominate-west

@spider wrote:

https://garfieldrobinson1.substack.com/p/did-gavaskar-really-dominate-west

no, and not even gavaskar says this. gavaskar is on record as stating the best player of fast bowling in the indian team was Mohinder "Jimmy" Amarnath, a batsman of unparalleled courage and skill(he has the highest series tally by a visiting batsman in the WI between the 77-95 golden years

@Jumpstart wrote:

no, and not even gavaskar says this. gavaskar is on record as stating the best player of fast bowling in the indian team was Mohinder "Jimmy" Amarnath, a batsman of unparalleled courage and skill(he has the highest series tally by a visiting batsman in the WI between the 77-95 golden years

In complete agreement regarding Armanath ...can't think of anybody who was more courageous against our quicks!

“Who would be the best batsman of all time?”

Viv: “I’ve always looked at a Sunil Gavaskar, and I’ve said this over and over and over again, and I’ll apologise to all the greats, you know, who would have graced the cricket world. And why: at a time when I think the West Indian fast bowlers were at their best, there were times where guys wouldn’t want to bat against these guys, sometimes even surrendering as I think a Bishen Bedi did in Jamaica. Scoring 14, I may need some correction here, but scoring 14 Test-match hundreds against the attack that was so feared, that’s got to be very, very special and here again is another guy who, if you saw him personally you’d think that, what is he doing with a cricket bat in his hand? He should be on horseback.”

Amarnath might be right up there...but Gavo stood the test of time. Was there any batsman who really dominated WI fast bowling attack in that era?

@googley wrote:

“Who would be the best batsman of all time?”

Viv: “I’ve always looked at a Sunil Gavaskar, and I’ve said this over and over and over again, and I’ll apologise to all the greats, you know, who would have graced the cricket world. And why: at a time when I think the West Indian fast bowlers were at their best, there were times where guys wouldn’t want to bat against these guys, sometimes even surrendering as I think a Bishen Bedi did in Jamaica. Scoring 14, I may need some correction here, but scoring 14 Test-match hundreds against the attack that was so feared, that’s got to be very, very special and here again is another guy who, if you saw him personally you’d think that, what is he doing with a cricket bat in his hand? He should be on horseback.”

Amarnath might be right up there...but Gavo stood the test of time. Was there any batsman who really dominated WI fast bowling attack in that era?

I believe Allan Lamb dominated in one series at least. I think he score three centuries against the West Indies even though England lost 0-5

@googley wrote:

“Who would be the best batsman of all time?”

Viv: “I’ve always looked at a Sunil Gavaskar, and I’ve said this over and over and over again, and I’ll apologise to all the greats, you know, who would have graced the cricket world. And why: at a time when I think the West Indian fast bowlers were at their best, there were times where guys wouldn’t want to bat against these guys, sometimes even surrendering as I think a Bishen Bedi did in Jamaica. Scoring 14, I may need some correction here, but scoring 14 Test-match hundreds against the attack that was so feared, that’s got to be very, very special and here again is another guy who, if you saw him personally you’d think that, what is he doing with a cricket bat in his hand? He should be on horseback.”

Amarnath might be right up there...but Gavo stood the test of time. Was there any batsman who really dominated WI fast bowling attack in that era?

gavaskar only made runs against 2nd string WI attacks(the 1979 second string series), no string WI attacks like the one he made mas on in 1971 or WI on flat pitches. Gavaskar was virtually a ghost for the entirety of the 83 series until they reached bourda which was a glue patch. Ditto when they went to the subcontinent at the end of the year...he only made runs at delhi and Madrass(Chennai) which were absolute roads. holding said in an mcc spirit of cricket panel that at madrass he felt like pulling a hamstring and walking off.

For the people underestimating Mohinder Jimmy Amaranath, Jimmy scored 598 runs at an avg of 66, and it was consistently excellence during that 83 series(most runs by a visiting batsman during 77-95), on west indian pitches. he scored a hundred at POS when the entire team collapsed and kapil scored a hundred lower down the order when he was vopping. nobody else did nothing of note. in fact its thanks to jimmy and kapil that india didn't get bulldozed again. he followed this with 91 and 80 at Kensington, again, the only dude to stand up. he followed that up with 91 and a century at the Rec. Allan lamb's first tour to the WI in 86 was a disaster. No english batsman scored a century in that test series. even when he returned in 1990, against a reconstituted four horsemen attack, lacking much experience(ambrose had only debuted in 88, bishop played his first test in 1989, and walsh wasn't a sure pick as yet; only marshall and patterson to an extent had experience), he only sored 390 runs. he scored two centuries in that series, which means in between that, he made very little. Only jimmy and wasim raja(who apparently was extremely popular in the WI) really took on and subdued the four horsemen

@spider:

Don't know about dominate, but I saw him (and opening partner Anshuman Gaekwad) in a block-fest at Sabina Park that ended the 1st day's play at 181/0 (and there was no rain interruption).

I think that was the same match that ended with the now infamous Bishan Singh Bedi surrender.

Disappointed this topic is both still up for discussion and being up for inaccuracies. The only time Gavaskar faced what's known as a WI 4pron were in 11 tests 1983 6 at home and 5 away. A ton in a washed out Bourda game after being hit in the head and a double on a Delhi featherbed I think. You'all can check the other scores...

@Jumpstart wrote:

gavaskar only made runs against 2nd string WI attacks(the 1979 second string series), no string WI attacks like the one he made mas on in 1971 or WI on flat pitches. Gavaskar was virtually a ghost for the entirety of the 83 series until they reached bourda which was a glue patch. Ditto when they went to the subcontinent at the end of the year...he only made runs at delhi and Madrass(Chennai) which were absolute roads. holding said in an mcc spirit of cricket panel that at madrass he felt like pulling a hamstring and walking off.

For the people underestimating Mohinder Jimmy Amaranath, Jimmy scored 598 runs at an avg of 66, and it was consistently excellence during that 83 series(most runs by a visiting batsman during 77-95), on west indian pitches. he scored a hundred at POS when the entire team collapsed and kapil scored a hundred lower down the order when he was vopping. nobody else did nothing of note. in fact its thanks to jimmy and kapil that india didn't get bulldozed again. he followed this with 91 and 80 at Kensington, again, the only dude to stand up. he followed that up with 91 and a century at the Rec. Allan lamb's first tour to the WI in 86 was a disaster. No english batsman scored a century in that test series. even when he returned in 1990, against a reconstituted four horsemen attack, lacking much experience(ambrose had only debuted in 88, bishop played his first test in 1989, and walsh wasn't a sure pick as yet; only marshall and patterson to an extent had experience), he only sored 390 runs. he scored two centuries in that series, which means in between that, he made very little. Only jimmy and wasim raja(who apparently was extremely popular in the WI) really took on and subdued the four horsemen

According to the stats:

1975–76 Series (In the West Indies): He scored 390 runs at an average of 55.71 (including two centuries, such as a brilliant 156) facing an emerging Michael Holding and Andy Roberts.

1982–83 & 1983–84 Series (Against the full pace quartet): When facing the peak, terrifying four-pronged battery of Roberts, Holding, Garner, and Marshall during the early 1980s, runs came much harder. For instance, in the 1982–83 away series, he scored 240 runs at an average of 30 (though it featured a magnificent, gritty 147 not out). He also scored his highest score (236 I think) against that same team in 1983. Maybe that's why Viv rate him so highly.

@Jumpstart wrote:

no, and not even gavaskar says this. gavaskar is on record as stating the best player of fast bowling in the indian team was Mohinder "Jimmy" Amarnath, a batsman of unparalleled courage and skill(he has the highest series tally by a visiting batsman in the WI between the 77-95 golden years

you are 100% correct. I recall that from my early years. Amaranth was a pain in the ass to get out. He battled .

@Brerzerk wrote:

Disappointed this topic is both still up for discussion and being up for inaccuracies. The only time Gavaskar faced what's known as a WI 4pron were in 11 tests 1983 6 at home and 5 away. A ton in a washed out Bourda game after being hit in the head and a double on a Delhi featherbed I think. You'all can check the other scores...

@googley wrote:

According to the stats:

1975–76 Series (In the West Indies): He scored 390 runs at an average of 55.71 (including two centuries, such as a brilliant 156) facing an emerging Michael Holding and Andy Roberts.

1982–83 & 1983–84 Series (Against the full pace quartet): When facing the peak, terrifying four-pronged battery of Roberts, Holding, Garner, and Marshall during the early 1980s, runs came much harder. For instance, in the 1982–83 away series, he scored 240 runs at an average of 30 (though it featured a magnificent, gritty 147 not out). He also scored his highest score (236 I think) against that same team in 1983. Maybe that's why Viv rate him so highly.

Bro, WI never ever had a 4prong until 1977! The Sabinab'76 game had 1 genuine fastbowler in M.A. Holding. England '76 had Roberts,Holding and Daniels; Vanburn Holder was not a right arm fast. Neither was Boyce in '75 down-under. Julien was not Left-arm fast.All.of Croft, Garner, Roberts, Holding really, really started in '78. Away in India '78bMarshall was a rookie who cried whenteefed out. Norbert Phillips and dem aren't fast bowlers. 71-72 Dowe was the only fastbowler. Sobers , Holder et al ....fast-medium, medium-fast etc.

@Jumpstart wrote:

the best player of fast bowling in the indian team was Mohinder "Jimmy" Amarnath, a batsman of unparalleled courage and skill

Correct.

@imusic wrote:

Correct.

On the return tour (WI in India) Poor Jimmy was so targeted he had an horrendous run before being dropped.

Sunny's good scores was when he decided to fight fire with fire and the double on the dead pitch.