For many years now, Brian Lara has been allowed to have his own way in West Indies Cricket, and this state of affairs has arguably prevailed whether or not he was captain of the side.

Lara's green light to do as he pleases probably goes back to his early record-breaking days when he scored 375 against England and 501 for Warwickshire within two months of each other in 1994. Full Story

Has some noteworthy points

LOL :)

You're trying to instigate?

When and where did he call for Chris? I missed that.



These so-called journalists are something else. Nothing more than glorified gossipmongers.

REMOVE LARA NOW....PUT SARWAN AS CAPTAIN...FCUK DAT!! :lol:

In reply to zimzimma

After returning from England in 2004 , he did talk about Chris' "leadership" qualities..Same press conference where he declared that Shiv is WI best batsman..

In reply to Surya

Stuuuuuupes. So with all the alleged power that he has, why would Sarwan be VC all of two years later?
And how was that calling for Chris?

Boy Narps, u really tek it hard eh?

In reply to Surya

Saying someone has leadership qualities and calling for them to be the captain is not the same thing!!!!!!!

BTW I guess the writer conveniently forgot that Gayle was not the only player identified with leadeship qualities.

What a load of crap.

Brian Lara lost the captaincy of the WI team when he sttod firm with his colleagues, including Sarwan, when Sarwan's countryman betrayed him and went over to the enemy.

Did Daniel Singh ever write article about that?

I wonder if the ethnicity of the writer dictated the fecal content of the article.

:roll:

In reply to zimzimma
I guess you missed the time when the VC post "didn't work itself out"

In reply to redbaron

nah..stop talking dat ...cyah be..
:roll:

Declaring and not allowing Sarwan to make 300 was worst!

Difference in maturity DOES equal difference in standards.

Sarwan should have understood that he is no Lara...

so what's good for the goose is not good for the gander.

Has never been and will never be.

If Sarwan erred(off field antics) he should pay the price.

Lara's only fault here is he said Sarwan was droped for cricketing reasons.

Some may view this as protecting Sarwan/and team privacy, others might say he was economical with the truth ( thanks Crossy)

Wackie.....dis man...I mean Reddicklessgoalpostshiftingracebaitingbaboon mekkin overt reference to correlations between ethnicity and fecal content. Do sumting.

In reply to redbaron

Behave yuself RB.

Daniel Singh in an educated jackass. Where is the proof of lara undermining all that came after and before him??

Why dont you say just how and what where the conditions shiv signed up for the captaincy??


Caribbeancricket.com administration or whoever put this article up have to be some real assholes to have allowed this article to make its way to the front page.


This is a fuggin disgrace.

A load of old rubbish!

The author can not distinguish between fact and the ilde abstracts of his own brain.

Hardly up to front page standards.

In reply to redbaron

its a facting guyanese what else you expect?? Obviously they have a problem with sarwan beig dropped!

BTW - the author should prepare for some cannon fire coming his way.

How dare you even attempt to criticize "God"?

Kudos to Ryan for even publishing it.

In reply to dax

A lot of players, Marlon included, seem to make that mistake. They need to always remember that you have to creep before you walk.

That said, I don't support dropping Sarwan at all, unless it was some major disciplinary infringment.

In reply to dax

Is this the first article Ryan has posted that was critical of Brian in one way or another? Chill with the drama nah! Stupes.

In reply to dax

You've been around here long enough to know that sentence doesn't mesh with my policy of what gets published.

_r

In reply to zimzimma

so why u nuh ask termite and the other battylickers to chill?

Poor Daxie, u tink zimma got a ting fuh u?

When de dust clears, we wud see how dis pans out. We do not know how Sarwan will react tuh dis dropping. It may actually do him some good. Who knows. We are not sure exactly why he was dropped, but give Lara's support for Sarwan in de past (wid de whole Digicel ting), TriniD does not tink dat Lara harbors ill will towards Ronnie.

And TriniD doh understand how de author deduces dat Lara does not want Sarwan as VC.

In reply to zimzimma

WRT Sars, Marlon et al is no Lara..


Age Zimma, Age!

What Lara wants/Behaves like at age 37 is very different from have he did/wanted at age 27.

Only problem, Sars is at the lower level :(

And you know that it is most probable that Sars was benched for disciplinary reasons

In reply to dax

whatever happens, this thread should be fun
:-o

In reply to Admin

I agree.

However, it is often difficult to take the path less travelled.

Trust me, I know

and so does Lara :wink:

Kudos again

In reply to dax

Why are you repeating yourself and telling me what I already know? And it's not just age, it's stage. Compare Brian at 27 to these guys in terms of level of acheivement and importance to the team.

In reply to faada

Indeed!! :D :D


Wait until Chrissy gets off the phone with the author

or Frankie and angela wakes up!!!!
:wink:

In reply to dax

Dax you're a real passive aggressive rass.

Brilliant article. People needs be aware of the BIG differences between Lara the great batsman and Lara the poor and selfish leader.

In reply to dax Wha bout , RIKI, IMUSIC AND SPICY?

In reply to zimzimma

WRT age/maturity.

Heasy girl.

Group dynamics are more complicated that than.

This dropping can backfire. For example that 261 n.o. which was 'forgotten" is now back into PLAY.

If Lara was going to play for another five years or so - then Sars would have to TAKE it or LEAVE it.

Since the Old LION may not be around much longer - it is very possible for Sars to become bitter (internally) and bide his time - until he becomes big DAWG/Lion.

There are many complicated psychological angles to this one and we do not know all the facts.

regardless, I think we will see a better cricketer in Sarwan soon. This tough love can sometimes work but we will not have heard the end of this for years. Sars wil never forget it - even if he publicly claims to in the future. Five days of watching test cricket and mourning will do that to you. I am sure it felt like a month to him and trust me - he is not sad that WI did not win

In reply to SuperG

And this article helps accomplish that how? By casting aspersions like any old drunkard in a rum bar?

In reply to dax

Well there's only one way he can become a big dawg.



Would you be, if you were in his position? I would like to think he is upset they didn't get their ass cut to shreds!

In reply to zimzimma
>>>Dax you're a real passive aggressive rass>>>>

Thanks. One only takes our the sword when one needs it it.

Jung's archetypes will tell you that the king mode(wise) should use control the warrior mode using the magician as advisor, not letting the warrior dominate the king. Unfortunately we all fail some times.

Well, the lover mode is illogical - so what can I say



BTW - I hear Brian is a great reader - you may ask him to read up on the archetypes/Jung at some time. It is a great assest especially for "supermen" like him

Later - gotta help with turkey

BTW ---

TriniD has always wanted tuh know exactly how Lara UNDERMINDED all dese people?

In reply to Trinidave

I think Daniel skunt would like to know that as well!

I think that just about sums it up! Lara hates to be upstaged,hence DIBOSS is always right!

In reply to Spectator

Seriously, do you think Brian has to worry about anyone in this team upstaging him as long as he's playing? Have you ever waited outside a club to shake Sarwan's hand Specky?

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.comYou my friend is barking up the wrong tree. Sarwan's performance is to blame for his dropping, enough of the excuses. When Sarwan begins to perform like Ponting, Younis Khan and Dravid he would then place himself beyond Lara or any other selector to do him harm. Stick with the facts, I still support Sarwan to be the next West Indies captain, but he needs to take a page from Mohammed Yousuf and lay his imprint on the game.

Wesley

In reply to hewesleyb


Is Sar's performing worst than Shiv was up to the beginning of the Indian tour?

In reply to camos


I thnk 15 consecutive innings without reaching 50 is some kind of record eh? We need to check it out!

In reply to zimzimma

This is about Sarwan. I wish some people will see it that way.

Sars is not focused on cricket right now.

If I shit in ah plastic bag, will they post it in de front page as ah article? :roll:

In reply to rikiniki

Try it and see nah!!

:lol:

In reply to zimzimma

Yuh tink ah eh goh do it. Look, if dey could post Daniel Singh usual tripe, dey could post my bag full ah shit.

And BTW, happy thanksgiving....and yuh is now ah official stalkee because ah dem avatar. :D

In reply to zimzimma

For the record I've NEVER waited outside of a club nor anywhere else to shake hands with or get a glimpse of any celebrity! I leave that for the groupies! However, I've met both gentlemen in my travels.

Anyway, isn't it a fact that whenever Lara has been criticized he somehow uses that as motivation to silence his critics??? This situation with Sarwan is no different, hence his double century!! Take a look back at his career and tell me if I am making this up!

In reply to Spectator

Just pulling an "exaggerated Johnny Mac" enroe.

In reply to Spectator

He is self-motivated...he knows what he is capable of and what he needs to do, and he doesn't need a soul to tell him.



Well I suppose you were playing groupie in Trinidad!

In reply to Spectator

How then do you explain his 61 and 122 in the first test?

In reply to rikiniki

they been letting you do that on the forum for months now, so I don't see why not.

In reply to camos You want to drop Shiv, go right ahead. Before you do check Shiv's average over 90 odd test at the time and his position in the team. We need our #3 to fire atleast 70% of the time.

Wesley

No need to stress out. Sarwan will be denouncing this article shortly.

In reply to zimzimma

The fact that we were in the same nightclub was nothing more than coincidence!
He actually came and reached me there and I happened to shake his hands while exiting the bathroom! He tried to hand me some cologne and paper towel to dry my hands! :lol: :lol:

""Lara's Anti-Sarwan ActionsThu, Nov 23, '06
by DANIEL SINGH""

man shut yuh rice cart mouth...i disagreed with the dropping of sarwan, but to say that brian is Anti-Sarwan is showing up your malevolent arse....

you were the one who published a so called interview with ramdin, seeking baugh's game before the icc finals were concluded...haul you exposed arse. :twisted:

In reply to imusic

Simple, he was unmotivated! :lol: :lol:

In reply to Spectator

waaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha!!

Shameless skunt!

:lol: :lol:

In reply to zimzimma

Why was Lara silent when Samuels has 15 consecutive innings without reaching 20

In reply to SuperG
Was the team winning? Was Samuels contribting otherwise????

Sarwan averaged 29 in 2006
and 34 in 2005

Something needs to be done

In reply to SuperG

Although you know I am referring to test cricket you insist on bringing ODI cricket in the argument, but still you don't have a leg to stand on. FYI, Samuels did not feature in 15 consecutive matches for the WI. Run along now and try to come up with something else!

In reply to Wally-1

The enemy of my enemy is my friend, today. :D

Watch yuh back...that MC ANUSCheeks will tattle to Echowak on you, and schoolmarm zimma will tell yuh to behave.

If you wonder about a trend or hint at it, people get nervous, and who have cocoa in sun see torrential showers.

HAllAhDemMC...including Daniel StinkMC.....but except zimma...I go behave for zimms anytime....she's a lady.

In reply to redbaron

Reddicklessshiftinggoalpostsracebaitingfoulmouthedclassless
boorishbaboon.....how are you today sir?
I trust that you have unbunched your knickers for the day already.

Sarwan needed this wake up call. He is a glorious underachiever. As I noted on a previous thread, Lara is not the only selector on tour. This would include the Coach, Captain, VC and maybe two senior players. Lots of people write as if they know everything when in fcat they are just speculating or have an agenda. Sars used to be a level headed, committed and focussed cricketer. All of that changed when he was made VC the first time around. He became swell headed, arrogant and unfocussed. I am around the team often and I know them and I have seen all the changes.

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

This article is right on the money. Lara is selfish and a BACKSTABBER! LARA IS ALL ABOUT LARA!!

He dropped Sarwan for Morton knowing fully well Sars is a champion batsman and with his last chance at the wicket he was blatantly ROBBED out by that AJOOKA! He made 23 with 5 fours off 36 balls and was going great guns! He did not fail in his last stint with the bat!

In essence Lara was willimg to take his chances with the likes of Ganga and Morton. Ganga of course batted for the draw. This guy has a fairy godmother or something. You know what happened with Morton? Dead wicket and Sar's replacement made a whole 5.

It's all about Lara's ego. Sarwan was coming in for some thunder with his leadership skills and what does Lara do? STOLE IT! Lara is the biggest bacstabber to grace West Indies Criket. Ask, Viv, Walsh, Richardson, Hooper, Logie, Harper and Chanderpaul. How can so many people be so wrong??? Imagine dropping one of your key players because you have your own agenda and you are one down in a test series??? Well, Lara made some runs and everyone including Cozier started singing his praises. Remember Cozier always bad mouthed Lara's captaincy. All these people singing his praises forgot one main goal, "We had to win a test match here!"

The Windies circus continues with Lara as ringmaster!!

Well, well, well, here I am visiting de Board only to receive demotivation.

This thread does not really deserve the dignity of a reply. Only to say though that its timing stinks to high Heavens and the Author (what's his name again?) has to have a jaundiced eye of understanding Life as a whole. This Author has displayed such utter disgrace in this thread that he leaves much much to be desired. The thread is a contempt of the Court of Kingly expressions of adoration just preceding this publication. Such ugliness is unworthy of comment. To this end I have just wasted my time and I here repent.

But if I think the thread itself is disgraceful in quality and narrow-mindedness, permit me to express my utter dismay of a line of thought throughout the caribbean adopted now as folklore or myth. Such is found under the handle Spectator who seems to think that whenever Lara has been criticized he somehow uses that as motivation to silence his critics??? Spectator also seems to think that this situation with Sarwan is no different, hence his double century!!

This view has been expressed even by learned Journalist as major editorials a la The Trinidad Express. Their common piece of evidence are Lara's double centuries eg the 213 and now the 216. What they all fail to observe however is that in each of these scores Lara was dropped. In the 213 he was dropped on 44. In the 216 he was reprieved by the umpire on a close LBW before the century and later dropped on 131.

Lara's innings as with all innings of all batsmen had to have the due contributions from the fielding teams and therefore we see easily the folly of these stupid views that can hold no water. No batsman can go to the wicket and predestine any score. That is utter rubbish.

These threads, editorials, wht have you only show up how functionally illiterate people can be expecially when 'they come out for someone - to destroy character'

We live in an evil world where not earthquakes but people destroy people. But each has to account ultimately - no getting away. Better we use what modicum of good we can find within ourselves to contribute to the good or else stay away from communicating our filth.

later

frank

In reply to sensie
Tell dem LBLs on dis MB. Deh need to hear that Lara is not only a great batsman but a selfish and backstabbing player.

In reply to Daniel Singh

Spot On!!! The entire article is spot on!

Headline should have been Lara Anti-Ronnie Actions

In reply to bobby
so the dogs are now after sarwan. Underachiever my ass!!!
his average only went below 40 during the 2005/6 season.
He has better stats than gayle, samuels, ganga and Logie even with the current slump in form.
Name me one star who doesn't have a slump?
I agree with previous writers that this may involve something else, but its a damn shame that Lara wouldn't give ronnie at least one of the 40 odd chances he had during his career.
No one's saying that ronnie is as good as or could ever aspire to be as good as lara. An absolute genius with the bat, that i would pay any money to see before anyone else...current or otherwise...but this has nothing to do with Lara, but everything to do with sars.
A nicer youngster , you would never want to meet. A team man, absolutely non racist, a class act in the manner of the rest of the mere mortals that comprise of 99% of international cricket!
Shame on you all for dissing him and shame on lara for choosing him over morton!

In reply to windy

Ummmm.....fuh dat statement to make sense....yuh might want to revise sumting dey.

In reply to frangela

Seriously ...get a grip.

Here is Lara's dumb reason fuh "dropping" Sarwan because of non-performance.

Last 6 Test innings:
Lara: 10 19 26 11 61 122 ave 41.5
Shiv: 13 57* 27 5 81 14 ave 39.5
Sars: 116 23 7 51 3 23 ave 37.1
Gayle: 83 3 0 0 34 11 ave 21.8

Why is this "rant" on the front page as an article. Hardly makes any good points, bsic Rufneck-level ranting this. :roll:

Yuh know why dis article was posted? Check de reads and responses. IT doh have much tuh do wid de quality of de article, but moreso de content.


Before anybody even read de fuss line, yuh already know which side of de fence yuh on. Only de Dax's of dis world wud fence dis one.

And who the fack is this Danny-bhai anyhow ??

Even Ronnie's old man (Dukesie)didn't go this far !!

In reply to DLO

Hey yuh wicked sckunt! This "Dhanny-bhai" is a man with balls to flush out Lara for the selfish sckunt he really is. Enough said!

West Indies will never win with Lara!! It will always be The Lara Show while he is still playing!

Man! The best thing about that article is that we don't get the usual pic of Daniel Singh's ugly mug to go with it....

....what a dumbass rant disguised as journalism!

BTW, I still maintain, Lara is doing Sars a favour by making it look like he drop him for cricketing reasons....Sars probably was not able to pass his fitness test.....that fitness test being to touch the tip of his nose with his index finger.

In reply to django

Just a Sarwan fan (basis for being a "fan" will not be assumed at this stage) getting the opportunity to cry and complain like a damn spolit child! That is the problem: instead of pointing out Sarwan's flaws, he is looking at all the excuses to blame everyone else (or someone else) other than the man responsible for his own abysmal performance - Sarwan himself!!!!!

Either one of two things are happening with Sarwan:

1. He is talented and is performing below his own standard, in which case he should be dropped because he is playing de arse.

2. He is not as talented as we think, in which case he should be dropped and someone else should be given a chance.

Either way, for anyone to suggest that Sarwan should continue in his position unchallenged is delusional.

And what did Lara do? He led from the front! He batted at No. 3 and SHOWED Sarwan (ah could show yuh better than I could tell yuh) the role of a No. 3 batsman in a team - that batsman sets the tempo for the innings!!! Hopefully, he got the message.

This guys is a flaming idiot. Yes, after Lara, Sarwan should take the place as teh batting star in that team next to Gayle (Sarwan gets the edge over Gayle cuz he uses his damn feet, and Gayle is a very hot & cold batsman). But, its not his team yet, and its simple in this case, he was not performing, so drop him. Sarwan is my favorote batsman in that team and even I agree with him being dropped. This drop was not a chance to put down Sars game, or distroy his future. It was simply to get the man to regain his focus on batting and nto take his spot in the team for granted. As much i dont like lara personality, Lara did say before the Zimbabwe tour that they will no longer be playing names, and no ones place in the team is safe unless he performs. Sars was not performing, he got dropped. WHAT SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT? He will be back, maybe even for the next test. But now, he would have learned his lesson.

Now, for the idiot who started all this. The man who wrote this article is an ignorant a$$, has no cricketing brain or common sense. Go write a colom on recaps of soap opras. Go create un-neccessery drama else where.

The following quote invalidates every substantive proposition in this article:

Read it here

In reply to Miks

You are right about one thing: the writer gave a very soap opera dimension to his article, meaning that it is about entertainment and is not a factual commentary. It is only in the WI that mediocrity is acceptable. Well, Lara called them all out and he continued to fail. So time fuh him to take a break from the game.

Let's see whether he will step up to the challenge. I will not hold my breath.

In reply to Miks Lara reason made no sense when there are others in the team that performed similar or worse than Sarwan. There is no secret that he trying to deny Sars de captaincy.

In reply to SuperG
Or does he love him and he is giving tough love?

In reply to bobby

Yuh bobsta!! Yes star! That's the best explanation anyone has ever come up with! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Most of the idiots who condemned the article tried to pick on how Lara never mentioned Gayle as a future Cappo or some other silly thing..
Can anyone find anything wrong about Lara's transgressions and run-ins with the board over the years?
DimDimma, you condemned Sarwan's dropping the other day..Today you are busy picking on silly specifics...Who the fack cares?
The point Lara has no justification in dropping Sarwan and the cricketing reasons that were given were weak..

Oh, those of you morons who are worried about the "ethnicity" of the writer , go back and reflect on your own tribal tendencies..
The accuracy of the contents doesn't change a wee bit based on the "ethnicity"..

In reply to Spectator

truer words...ahmm...let me leff dis one alone

what are you on about Mike?? now you don't want Gayle have the captaincy cos he don't move his feet alot?? lol...that's got fuk all to do with it...blind freddie can see Gayle is a born leader...ya don't think Lara can see that?? he knows what's best for West Indies...he knows Gayle's the man to run the show...

It.s about time that people start to speak out against Lara.s selfish behaviour. I have said this all along. Without doubt Lara is an evil person. WI cricket would be better off without him.

In reply to seetarg

plenty man saying dat ...care to explain your take on that statement ... 8)

In reply to seetarg
Lots of other scunts beside Lara have to go too :evil:

In reply to DAVE400
He cant. Dont have clue

In reply to seetarg How come Lara is an evil person. He rape you or wha!

He wuk obeah pn youor wha! He steal yuh closest or wha!

seriously, get ah grip rass!

In reply to frangela

Daniel Singh is ah kunt. Hope he get aids :evil:

In reply to zimzimma

You are absolutely correct. We all saw that in NZ when Shiv was Cappo. This is perfect. Now will you continue to support the dropping of Sarwan? I am really surprised at you pulling a Chrissy ere. Sarwan in yoru boy until Brian say otherwise?

What jinda hypocritical behavior is that?

Brian made some good scores this series and all of a sudden he can jump on his high horse and drop Sarwan and alyuh dont see a thing wrong with that?

Steuuuups bitg time. I have just lost all resoect I had for you.

In reply to rikiniki

because he dared to criticise your god? Man ress up and chill a lil bit. YOu are teh one who does constantly cuss Shiv. So when you live in glass house mek sure you live in teh facting basement. And stop wishing bad in anyone who dont sahre teh same view as you.

That is really childish behavior. Lara is a skunt fdor dropping Sarwan on a Flat track. I sey so. And HYMC

In reply to dcbreds

I ask you one question. Where was Lara in NZ when Shiv was Cappo. If Shiv had unceremoniously dropped him at that time, would you be saying teh same thing? Take everything in perspective before you criticize. Sarwan did not deserve to be dropped. There are others in the fareaking team that should not nbe there,

And please do not let race get in the way of proper logics.

SARWAN DID NOT DERSEVE THAT PUBLIC HUMILIATION THAT LARA GAVE HIM. i DO NOT CARE WHAT ARGUMENT YOU BRING INTO PLAY. i CAN EASILY SHOW YOU INSTANCES WHERE LARA HIMSELF HAD POORER DISPLAYS OF CRICKETING FORM.

Anand,

Some of the stuff in de article was not wanted though.

disagree on Sarwan being dropped yes disagree on dat point.

even yuh made more valid points in dat regard which is fine.

In reply to vivek_shankar153

See my post ... Lara throws Sarwan .. a bone.

Does this article really deserve so many responses???

In reply to Spicy

Just be proud that you haven't contributed.

In reply to Spicy

:roll:

In reply to SuperG

Hmmmm...... So based on perfomance alone, who do we drop? Ganga? He scored just as badly as Sars in the first Test. Wait, Ganga did score pretty well (82) in the second test. Ok, then lets drop Bravo to. No wait, he scored pretty well as of recent to. OK, what about Tiger? No wait, he is playing well to..... Gayle? Nah, he in form...... How about Ramdim, let sars stand behind the stumps. OK, i got it, lets drop Lara him self. Nevr mind 61 & 122. (In case you missed the sarcasm behind all this.) Who would you rather drop before sarwan based on performance alone?

I am agreeing with you in terms of Sars being the future. But he has not been in form and has not been performing. He needed the drop to do him some good.
I don't give a damn about the politics behind it. It was a good cricketing decision to drop him for Morton who had been batting well before this test where he failed badly.

Look past the politics and use your cricketing brain.

In reply to anandgb

Daniel Singh is ah kunt

In reply to anandgb

read it again...............AIDS! 8)

In reply to rikiniki "Daniel Singh is ah kunt. Hope he get aids"


U hope Daniel Singh get AIDS from the fuckking he gave you.

AIDS is a terrible disease to make fun of. :evil: :evil:

What a bunch of garbage from the backstabber! How dem gun win without sars?:twisted:



Yes mon! If is a flat track drop Ronnie. If wicket look like Sabina Park when a test match was called off, play Sars!! What a farcking joker!!:twisted:

In reply to Miks
I like yuh try at humour. :lol: I was talking about Lara's dumb reasoning fuh dropping Sarwan not about the scores in de 2nd test or who gonna play in de 3rd test

In reply to SuperG

I get you. But u did not get me. Who else Lara suppose to drop?

I always thought that Gayle’s performance would catapult him to the captaincy
Of the WI team and the team is in need of strong leadership. However after reading
This article, I am not so sure I want the same, indiscipline come in many shapes and forms.
We have well gone pass the point where Enough is Enough.

In reply to SuperG

According to these stats....Gayle has done worse than Sarwan this year!!
Some mothers do hav`em!!!!
Try checking the last 6 test matches they played in and as Chrissy would say wheel and come again

In reply to Cleg

worse

and gayle bowls.

I hope everything is alright between these 2 great talents Lara and Sarwan, we don't need anymore meaningless distractions, but it appears to me that something is not right. Sarwan in his daily Diary Entry give credit to everyone except Lara, he give prasie to the openers,Johnny (Bravo) and the bolwers. Conspicuously missing was Lara innings and the importance it played in us not having to bat again. I hope everything is alright between these 2 great talents for the sake of WI cricket.

In reply to ray_ray

This is what Sarwan wrote



link to blog

Lara's dumb excuse for dropping Sarwan aint based on stats. In my opinion there a BIG animosity now between he and Sarwan. Lara aint gonna be in de team after 2007 and he trying he best not to let Sarwan tek ova de captaincy.

In reply to anandgb

Seriously...all I can say is you must have been drunk when you made that entire post. This surpasses even your previous displays of dostishness.

In reply to XFactor

Look like you is Daniel Singh :lol:

In reply to faada
much obliged.

In reply to anandgb

But you never addressed the issue - that Sarwan is performing well below standard or he is not that good. So which is it? Why is no one willing to acknowledge that, of all the batsmen, he is the one performing the worst because the expectations of him are the highest!!! Therefore, he is the most deficient of the lot.

And this is not about Lara and Shiv. This is about Sarwan. Everybody in the world knows about Lara's talent. therefore dropping the greatest batsman in the world is a STUPID idea. However, Sarwan has been shitting around for a long time. I remember in England, just before the close, they placed 2 men square just for Sarwan. And what did he do? Chase a wide ball and slapped it to one of the two men. That typifies Sarwan's approach to the game. He bats too irresponsibly.

I could go on and on about this, suffice it to say that, after Lara, Sarwan is supposed to be the best batsman in the team. He has not been performing that way. So it is time he got a wake up call.

I have looked at everyone else on the team, and I agree that Sarwan was the man we needed to make an example of. Think man think. They will all get the message, cause if it could happen to Sarwan, it could happen to anyone.

And tell me if Lara's innings in this game was not a message to Sarwan - that the no. 3 position is the most valuable and it sets the tempo from the team. It is no coincidence that the best batsman in most test teams normally bats at No. 3.

Whew!!! And please do not accuse me of race baiting cause I do not play that.

In reply to dcbreds

It aint a message cause Lara aint gonna mek 216 or 100 or 50 every innings when he bat at 3.

In reply to SuperG

Actually, Lara's more notable scores have been at no. 3, including the 375, the 400, the 120 vs India and, of course, this recent double.

In reply to Wally-1 I just want Daniel Singh to read what Lara said - file: Cricinfo Nov 24th:

"First of all, let me say that Sarwan is one of the best talents of his generation, my generation and even the one before," Lara said. "He is someone we look forward to having in the team. He is a leader, he is the vice-captain of the team and we expect a lot of him. The West Indies did not invest 64 Tests in him for him to be sitting on the side.

"He will come back from this and come back stronger. It wasn't designed as a drop. We just wanted to make him aware of the situation and come back stronger. We need him and we need him to take control."

It is such a bad thing when people, because of their anxiety to derail and put down and destroy one's character, pre-empt situations and report untruth and stupid conjecture. Daniel wanted Lara to refer to Sars as 'Vice Captain' Well, not only has he made the reference, he gave Sars a meat full plate, referring to him not only as Leader but as someone 'we need' 'to take control.' Amen, Daniel? Amen!

I do hope you would learn from your mistake in pre-empting, be patient, give things a chance so you can get the facts and settle your mind in a better way.Bye bye Daniel Singh.

frank

In reply to frangela

Gayle, Ganga, Bravo - they all got the message.

If Sarwan continues to be mediocre, then Lara will be proven to be right (about dropping him). So Sarwan has a choice: perform and shut up his critics or retire. Those are his only options.

In reply to dcbreds If Sarwan is mediocre so is Gayle, Ganga and Bravo. Sarwan perform the same of better than all a dem this year :lol:

In reply to SuperG

Man, this is not in defense of dem odder fellas, because the person with the highest expectations is Sarwan. So if he is performing at the same level as the others, then one can logically conclude that he is the biggest disappointment. Make sense?

In reply to zimzimma

I suspected such a response from you here; that all you can say in defense is to try character assasination. That is a wonderful way to counter an argument.

In all of my years watching and playing cricket, I know that every batsman goes through bad patches (Lara included) and that is what I wanted to draw your attention to. This is more a travesty because Sarwan got some dubious decisions against him as well.

Anyway, as it stands now, I would be happy to see Lara stick to his words and leave Sarwan out for the rest of the series because it is doubly unfair to drop Morton after only 1 game and everyone else did make runs.

In reply to dcbreds

Lara's innings was definietly a good one. I just wish he had not decided to deny Sarwan the same opportunity on a flat track as well. I disagree with your argument that more is expected of him than anyone else and as such he must be judged by a higher standard.

If the playing field was level and umpires were not prone to give poor decisions, then perhaps I may be willing to entertain some of what you said. JUst look at the scores. 92, 84, 216, 89, 196. This was a batting paradise. So Please do not use it as a yardstick. Lara was wrong to publicly humiliate Sarwan like that. With this undeplomatic attitude he will further drive a wedge into the members of the West Indies team. Public hurt are retained for longer periods. Remember that. No amount of press confrences will erase that.

In reply to anandgb

Over the last 10-15 innings of Sarwan, how many times did you find him really looking good and leaving his hand with some injudicious Shots!! I am not really in favor of Dropping Sarwan but I had been feeling that he is getting too soft like Hooper over the past few series (India, Malaysia, ICC & Now in Pak). I really think that was a bad move given what has happened with the WI team over the last few years when mediocrity has continued.

But I really think, if this is going to be the benchmark from this day in WI cricket, it really would serve well for WI cricket. I am the one who really feelt for a long time that this slackness to slap someone when he is mediocre has really hurt WI cricket over the past few years.

All I need to see is consistency. Drop anyone who is slacking from now on. It could be anyone and that will send a very good message to the youngsters who are coming up and wake up the ones that are slacking.

In reply to anandgb

Anand, I am amazed that you will disagree that more is not expected of Sarwan than any other player (except Lara) in the team. Look at any other international team and you will see that the only untouchable players are those who are world class (Lara, Ponting, Tendulkar, Kallis).

I am sure that you are not stating that Sarwan is world class because he is far from it. As many have said, he is doing the Hooper, and we know where that led us. It is high time that Sarwan takes over the reigns. He cannot rise to the captaincy without becoming a reliable batsman. His career average and that of the past two years are both well below what is expected of him.

As I said earlier, it is either (a) he is not a great player, in which case we should look for one, or (b) he is a great player but is performing below standard, and thus needs a kick in the arse.

Nothing - not even bad umpiring - justifies his performances cause Lara and Shiv have had some poor decisions against them as well.

I can't believe that you are willing to accept this level of mediocrity from our 2nd best batsman and our future captain. If he is incapable of leading when the pressure is not on him, what should we expect when it is?

Let him sweat on the sidelines. Forget about what Lara said. Sarwan needs to take responsibility for his abysmal performances. Let's see what he does about it now. As I said earlier, he has two options. He is in control of his own destiny.

In reply to Pacy Do you really think this is a benchmark? Lara has been talking crap for more than a year and not doing anything constructive. And Let me tell you he will not continue this benchmark as you say. We heard a year ago that He will not be playing names, yet Hinds and Sammy went to teh champions trophy.

Di you watch Sarwan's innings last year against SA in TnT 107*? Was that an innings of character? then 127 in teh 4th test of teh same series? 116 agaunst India this year in teh thrid tes and 6 50s as well . All of these innings are in his last 15 test appearances.

I am really not sure where you and Dcbreds and others are getting your info from. But please do not tell me that his performances in teh last 15 tests were mediocre.

I am not so sure where the double standards are coming from. But to each his own.

I still maintain that Lara should not publicly humiliate his VC like that. It was done in very bad taste.

In reply to anandgb

Another point. Look at these stats:

2005: 34.50
2006: 29.08
Career: 38.83
Highest average in any year: 50.25 (2004 - the year he scored 261* vs Bang)

Are any of these numbers what you expected of Sarwan after 64 tests?

In reply to dcbreds

I am sure Sarwan did not say to anyone to stop searching for a great player. Did he? I suspect that it is very easy to judge, butuit is harder to do.

Yes and tehy have all been performing just as badly over the last 2 years. Why not drop the whole team?

Lara is the world's greatest batsman and he has been prone to consistent failures as well.

I am not judging talent. I am pissed at the way Lara publicly humiliated his own VC. That is very distasteful. There is not way you or anyone can tell me that a public humiliation will result in team unity. No facting way. Lara is great as a batsman, but he has shown here that he lacks teh capability to be a good leader.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that if a player is not performing he should not be dropped or disciplined. But there are methods of doing so without public insults. And what is good for teh goose is also good for teh gander. Set a standard and uphold it for everyone. Not for a selected few as you are avdocating.


BTW: Sarwan has performed under tremendous pressure, so please dont make such statements without backing them up.

In reply to dcbreds

So you really do think that the way Lara is making an example of Sarwan is good for team morale and unity? Or will it create rifts?

You can justify as much as you wish. You can call Sarwan a talentless cricketer as much as you want. It does not change that fact that a leader does not humiliate one of his team in a public manner much less his second in command.

It is simply piss poor management.

In reply to anandgb

So your gripe is how Lara "dissed" him? Not sure what Lara said wrong, but let's say that he did. OK, so Lara is a skunt. Now I am asking you one thing: Do you think Sarwan should be dropped?

Understand that he has performed the worst of all the batsmen over the past two years. Check the stats. Yes, even Bravo and Ganga have performed better than him.

You do not disagree that a player not performing should be dropped. Sarwan is the worst performing player. So what is the problem?

And you are not judging talent? What does that mean? That does not make any sense. If you have a top player and he is the worst performer, what should you do? Keep him in the team and drop another player who is doing better than him? How is that fair to the other player?

And they all batted under pressure. Shiv and Lara both batted under pressure and performed. WI batsmen are always batting under pressure. So what is your point?

I do not want to waste time talking about what Lara said. I am more interested in understanding your logic for dropping another player before Sarwan.

In reply to anandgb

We heard a year ago that He will not be playing names, yet Hinds and Sammy went to teh champions trophy!

Champions trophy team was announced long back and though Fidel,Sammy,Morton, Hinds adn Baugh did nothing in the DLF cup they could not be dropped since that option was not there.

So they were lucky to get another chance to prove themselves sammy (with his bowling) and Morton redeemed themselves.

The very next chance to select a team has seen that Hinds, Colly, Fidel (all his friends) and Baugh missing from the line up. What more do you expect? You can twist but the truth is that the option of dropping was not available!!

I really wish this is continued consistently in future so that no one slacks!!

Daniel Singh iss wan pu$$y.

:twisted:

In reply to anandgb

Why are you drawing my attention to that? Where were you when I was making that same point on the MB? Look HYMC cuz yu don't know what the fugg u talking about (as usual).



I have nothing to defend eediat! Sheesh.

In reply to dcbreds


"""'Are any of these numbers what you expected of Sarwan after 64 tests?"""'

is....spuds told me to tell you,so please dont kill the messenger.

In reply to dcbreds Geeeeeeeeeeeeez, if he is the worst performing of all the batsmen, why de fcuk is he in teh team? not to mention as VC. Are you sure you have your head screwed on correctly? Drop his ra$$ for life then.

I am really surprised that the West Indies would carry this guy for so long, 2 years you say? WoW!!!! You definitely have awakened my eyes to a new phemenoma.

You of course would not see the effects of the public censure because it was done by Lara. I repeat, it is not the content, No amount of press releases will take back the tarnishing of teh vote of no confidence.

I am willing to bet (even tough I know you will deny it ) that if this was done by teh selectors or BK you would not be manufacturing the reasoning that you have taken pains to justify Sarwan being dropped.

I am also proud to know that Ganga and Bravo have performed better than Sarwan in the last 2 years. Thanks very much for that extensive analysis. Big up Bravo and Ganga.

In reply to anandgb

You say you have no problem with dropping non-performing batsmen. Yet when I show you that Sarwan is the worst of the batsmen, you TRY to brush it off.

I keep telling you, this is not about Lara but you somehow keep pulling Lara back into it because of the way he "talked" about it. You have yet to provide a coherent explanation for why you think the worst batsman on the team should remain in his position while Morton has been knocking at the door.

I guess you are in denial, so I will not debate this issue with you anymore, because you are not debating facts.

But the facts are these:

1. Sarwan is the worst performing batsman on the team for the last two years.

2. He has the choice of living up to the expectations or being mediocre.

3. There are others waiting in the wings for the same chances he is getting.

4. After 64 tests, Sarwan's performance has been MEDIOCRE!!

Let's see what he does from now on.

In reply to anandgb

Well, they resolved that problem in the last test, didn't they? :twisted: So I do not see why you are griping.

Questions to all those who seek to justify Sarwan's dropping.
1.Would you select him for the 3rd test match?

2.Do you agree with him being named vice-captain for the ODI matches??

I am asking for answers with reasoned explanations for your answers.

In reply to Dukes

I think the decision to drop him for one test was a good one. I really think Sarwan was taking his spot for granted and not playing to the level that he can play. So I think a 1 game suspension was appropriate. If he continues performing poorly, then he knows what can happen to him.

Now, having said that:

1. Yes, I would. Quite frankly, I would play the extra batsman because I do not expect what happened in the second test to always happen. I would remove one of the bowlers, and include Sarwan in the bowling line up (I do not think he can do any worse).

2. Yes, he deserves the VC position because, like it or not, he is STILL one of the top batsmen in the team. And the selectors have to determine who is in the best position to be VC. Of everyone playing cricket in the WI, he is still the best person to take over the reins.

He takes his spot for granted and you immediately name him vice-captain???Isn't that a mixed message???

I hope you were not comparing him to Ganga in terms of batting ability in your dialogue with Anandgb as that is bordering on the ridiculous.
I will maintain it was a mistake to drop him and I suspect so will he 10 years from now when all of us including you will hail him as a WI great with over 20 test centuries.
I know many who said that Lloyd's dropping was correct never in their wildest dreams would have thought that he would end up with a test average of 46 in over 100 test matches.The thing is they all now deny what they said back then.Like everything else when we make mistakes we tend to deny them later.

In reply to Dukes

I will NEVER compare Ganga to Sarwan because there is no comparison. I have continued to assert that the expectations for Sarwan are higher, and that is because he is more talented than everyone else (except Lara) on the team. And that's the point - he is the most talented but is performing the worst.

And I will not reverse my view on this, because if he finally performs to expectations, I would arguably conclude that the decision to drop him was the right one because it affected his performance favourably.

But tell me how long should Sarwan continue to average 38 before he is dropped from the team.

In reply to Dukes

People here are still trying to find sense on Lara,s dropping of Sarwan. Thre is no justification except Lara is bent on seeing Sarwan not given the capo. Is this the way to repay your friend during the strike? This action by Lara is the epitome of betrayals forget Lara,s history of back stabbing others but to do this against his buddy Sarwan is the lowest.

Lara tormented Shiv during Shiv,s tenure as captain and made sure that Shiv did not win a game remember how the great Lara batted in NZ? Well I had expected him to deny Shiv the NZ victory.

This man Lara is evil make no mistake about it.

In reply to seetarg

You are delusional.

In reply to dcbreds

You are so screwed up in trying to defend Lara that you are mixing the messages. Where did I advocate dropping anyone for Sarwan? Listen, you reallyneed to understand your logic. Ganga started playing at teh same time as Sarwan and you are claiming that he is doing better than Sarwan, How then does he have a test average that is waaaaaay below that of Sarwan's?

Pay attention to your claims carefully. Ganga and Bravo are good players. I am not knocking them, but your use of these 2 to bellitle Sarwan's performance makes me wonder.

I notcied that you are running away from answering my question on the effects of the public censure that has been thrown unceremoniously at Sarwan.

How can you make a clear judgement without recognizing the effects of the action, potential or otherwise? One man is averaging 38+ The other 2 are averaging 33.71 and 26.88 respectively. Yet you claim that the man with teh 38+ average is teh worst performing? Where is your justification bro?

In reply to anandgb

You said that I said this:

But this is what I said:


And I have not justified what Lara has said in public. In fact, I have not commented on it. I have stated that I agree with the decision. What Lara said after the fact was irrelevant to the decision because the decision was already made.

I can comment on Lara's statements separately.

In reply to dcbreds Performing better and yet have more tha 5 points below in average?

In reply to anandgb

Huh? Check DLO's stats on Dukes's thread. I am dealing with facts man, and my statements accurately reflect those facts.

In reply to dcbreds Those "facts" you will notice also shows W Hinds performing better than both of your boys. Does this mean teh selectors were unfair to Hinds? Just checking on teh veracity of stats that are generally influenced by anomalies at times.

Please stop the nonsense, unless you really wish to say that boith Ganga nad bravo are better batsmen than Ronnie.

As far as I am concerned you are running away from teh issue of public censure and whether it is good for teh uunity of the team when we need it most. So I am done arguing with you on this issue until you really stop trying to justify Lara's distatefull action while saying it is not about lara.

A leader will not take away an opportunity for you to build your confidence when opportunities exist. Lara knew teh pitch was a flat track and he unceremoniously dropped his VC. There is no amout of stats that will justify that. None.

In reply to anandgb

WHEN THE FCUK DID I SAY THAT BRAVO AND GANGA ARE BETTER THAN SARWAN? Now you are just being dishonest and clutching at straws!

My point is very clear. On that list, Sarwan should be second. He is 7th or 8th or whatever - behind every other batsman. If that is OK with you, then fine. It is not OK with me. One thing I know - Sarwan cannot say that he ALWAYS deserves a spot on the team because his performances suggest otherwise.

We could debate Hinds another time because this is not about him. And Lara's comments? I promise you I will deal with that issue separately. But again, please explain to me what should be done with Sarwan. Should he be allowed to wallow in mediocrity? Or should he continue to bat the way he has been doing for the past two years without fear of being dropped. Well, guess what? He now knows that he is not untouchable! :roll: :roll:

WHEW!

In reply to anandgb

It is not that Ganga and Bravo are better than Sarwan but Sarwan means more to this team and his commitment is more than important.

Lara & Chanders, even if they average 35 can command their places in the team. But is taht what we expect from them?? Dont we want them both to average more than 50?? Why?? Because they have talent and experience.

Taylor will be linchpin of the WI attack even if he gets only 2 wickets per test!! But is that what we advocate for Taylor??

I really want Chris and Sarwan to step up their averages to mid 40's Before the big man retires!!

I had been thinking about how this will happen for some time but never thought of Dropping them actually. But if this moves his career upwards then all we have to thank whoever made this decision to drop him. It would also be a very good indicator for the others!!

In reply to Pacy Sarwan being dropped will have no directly relation to him improving his scores. Before being dropped he recognize he had to do better.

In reply to terminator Not dis Guyanese I glad he skunt get rass dropped and ah hope he skunt don't play another test till England!!!

In reply to Spectator How Sarwan upstage Lara when was that?

In reply to sensie You rass ever been around duh team to come up with these assertions? All dis piss I hear Lara dis and dat budday when deh bell ring and deh cross deh line and play as a team with aprofessional approach is all dat counts. It is only because of increased media coverage of today's era that one is getting any info about team personal relationships, they have always been acrimonious in the West Indies team.

In reply to anandgb So since when Lara is the only selector on tour?

DENOKE

Were you glad when Lloyd was dropped from the WI team and Fat Boy bring he back to de WI??

Were you glad when Shiv get drop coz he was tired and lethargic??

Were you glad when Freddo get drop against India coz Uncle Joey mek a double century in club cricket??

Ah gat anodda one but it wood be below de belt

Yuh recognize a pattern here??

Men dat good get drop fuh NONENTITIES!!!!!!

Compare dese guys careers wid de eediats dem get drop fuh and den get back to me.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

In reply to SuperG

Recognising Dosent cut Boss!! It is delivering. I knew Lawson realised he is pelting!! I know Tino realised that his Line and Length is awry! I know Dwayne Smith realises he has lots of faults in his batting technique!!

But at the end of the day it is the results that speak!! Sarwan has been playing careless strokes since the Indian series in the caribbean with gay abondon particularly when He is in great touch. This 10 days should have given him enough time to reassess the situation and get his brain in order.

As he'd said before the start at Multan, Lara maintained that the best combination would be selected.

To say that the best team was selected for the second test match is akin to President George H.W.Bush saying that Clarence Thomas was the best qualified person for the Supreme Court in 1991

PATENTLY FALSE

In reply to Dukes

Going by your logic no talented batsman should be dropped regardless of performance !!

Same reason you Pooperites kept supporting that waste over the years !!

Yuh have to try other avenues too you know...

Jeeze, what is wrong with you Muddies !!

In reply to seetarg
And this board would be better off with out you spewing your nonsense.

In reply to Trinidave

Thanks, TriniD :wink:

I try to put myself in both men's shoes (one at a time) and try to see their point of view.

Not easy, as you can imagine. Especially since it is difficult to be in Brian Lara shoes ( something to do with shoe size :wink:)

BTW - long time. Will give you a holler soon.

In reply to Trinidave

whatever the reasons, brian lara will remain a problem for west indies cricket for a long time- actually brian lara is about the worst thing to happen to west indies cricket since the banning of players who went to south africa--my mother told me this much in 1994---she is right