What started out as a promising season at Tanteen Grenada has dissipated into a summer of frustration and embarrassment for the Windward Islands in the current Carib Beer regional cricket tournament.

The term from bad to worse is apt here, as the sub-regional team has been blinded by the short sightedness of selectors and choked by their own vengeance.
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In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com


Bingo!!!!

Time for introspection---let's now shine a light on the disgrace that passes for Windwards (regional and island) cricket adminstration.

As noted, these guys have a hard time organizing a decent inter-island (and intra-island) competition. Why should we expect a competitive regional team.

In reply to JOJO
Prepare yuhself fuh a CAPS LOCK ASSAULT eh... 8)

In reply to imusic
POINT IN YAH PUNAKO!!!(TRADEMARK VOICE OF RUBBISH)

The WWI batting lineup has been fragile for a while now.
Essentially its Devon Smith,, then daylight, then Darren Sammy coming in at #6 ( He should really come in at #7).Now there is unfortunately no financial incentive for the boards to win the championship or to pick the best players available, so the board simply sat back and selected WWI players who were palpably inferior to that available from other territories
had the Board had some balls and some foresight , they would have signed from the followinhg highly regarded prospects

+Gaja Singh (GUY)
+Leon Johnson (GUY)
+Jason Haynes ( BAR)
+Shammar Brooks ( BAR)

Maybe even
+Imran Jan (TT)

Would they have done better?
hard to say, but , given thje returns of Pollard, Bharath, and Crandon, its quite likely that at least a couple of the youngsters would have thrived.
After all Johnson,Singh, and Brooks were all considered superior to Pollard last year

In reply to carib

How the hell are they going to sign these "foriegn" players when they just discarded one of their own best batsmen?

The truth remains that some stupidly called for Murray's departure. The man used to at least add some respectability and some modicum of competitiveness in the Windward squad. Now that he is gone, what are they saying now?

Let this be a lesson to you idiots who want change for the sake of change. If a youngster cannot force himself into consideration on merit, he does not deserve a spot on the squad. Cricket is a competition of skill, not a friggin youth contest.

In reply to Zikdaman

Call name nah....KAMI!!!

Importing talent is not the answer---it will just mask a critical underlying problem.

Windwards did just that in their first two years and they placed second in the Shield (beating a Barbados team that boasted quite a few test players).

However, the key problem remains-- a weak cricket structure that is further crippled by disgraceful administration. This is where the focus should be.


The situation with Murray is symptomic of the problem in so many ways:-
- A 39 year old keeper and average batsman was the second best and fittest on the team;
- the way he was sacked
- the unavailability of a suitable replacement for his batting, guidance, or wicketkeeping.

In reply to Larr Pullo

:-o :-o :-o :-o

In reply to JOJO

Keep repeating it to POINT and Christine.....

They went after me when I put them in the Doghouse....

100% in agreement with Hamlet.

Windwards cricket is now an embarrassment to the entire region.

What was funny was him saying that Pascal doing nothing is probably better than him being picked for this team....
:D

In reply to JOJO

It is very very interesting that you and others want a light shone on the Windward Islands Board .

Yet you remain silent on shining a light on the WICB . VERY INTERESTING .

The impression I get is that only the Windwards Board and players are doing badly .

No need to shine a light on the Architects of the Disaster , the Pirates . Very good .

Perhaps if the money that the WICB got from Sky Sports weas used to lift the standard of Cricket in the Region , there would be less complaints and a higher standard of cricket in the Region.

Michael Holding asked a question about that money , I did hear you or any of the other blowhards , being indignant about that .

You prefer to go after easy fish than to tackle the big one . BTW , were you upset when Lequay and his henchmen refused to allow Deryck Murray from being seated at the meeting where the Elections were being held , despite the fact that Murray was a candidate for the Presidency ????.

Were you upset when an election was held in Barbados and persons not in financial standing were voted into Office ???? .

Were you upsey when the members of the WICB got together and wanted to select Chetram Singh as the President of the WICB , with the full knowledge and understanding that they were contravining the very rules and regulations of the ICC that they had signed on to ???? .

My reason for reminding you about these Boards is that THE WICB AND ALL THE REGIONAL BOARDS NEED TO BE REPLACED . I have stated this on several occasions , and neither you nor the other mongrels that populate this MB agreed with me .

In reply to POINT

I'm now convinced that you're actually Lennox John..or his relative!!!

In reply to POINT

Who make up the WICB?

How do the members get onto the WICB?

Who do they respond to?

Are they made to respond?

Before you attempt to solve a problem, you must first understand it.

In reply to JOJO

Well, the English counties "import" players all the time. The solution is to have ALL the boards compete to sign the BEST players, regardless of origin. That would raise the standard of cricket throughout the region, and would tie player opportunity to merit, not the vagaries of birth.
Suppose WWI had signed Johnson & Singh, and they had blossomed as Bharath & Pollard blossomed.
Wouldnt that be better for the WWI AND for WI cricket as a whole?
Instead they are sitting home watching the injury reports.
Had that happened, Maybe other Guyana would have been stung into making better selections next time, after having had the WWI steal two of its best home grown prospects out from under its nose.
Instead, hell, the Guyanese Board isn't really suffering for failing to play these prospects.They are sitting home doing nothing, and the WWI is struggling to offer competition to the other teams-thus further lowering the attractiveness of cricket in the eyes of WWI youth

In reply to carib

Vagaries of birth is no little something in the region of the world we call the West Indies!

We have to scrap this country against country competition and create pro teams in the various territories and let players be drafted to the teams.

In reply to POINT

Perhaps if the money that the WICB got from Sky Sports weas used to lift the standard of Cricket in the Region , there would be less complaints and a higher standard of cricket in the Region.

Michael Holding asked a question about that money , I did hear you or any of the other blowhards , being indignant about that .
==============================================================================

Lets face it, POINT, you dont know a G@#$damn thing about the Sky contract, whether the money was wisely spent, or whether it was a good contract. Apparently Michael holding doesn't either, or we would have heard more about it.

You need to stop dragging in this red herring, and deal with the issue at hand.
And yes, the other boards have their incompetence too. Thats a given. But their teams have been at least competitive.

In reply to carib

For your scenario to work we would have to completely restructure the administration of local cricket and take it completely out of the hands of local boards and create real professional franchises.

This country vs country cricket competition is an anachronism that no longer serves WI cricket on a whole any real good.

In reply to carib

We are dealing with a critical problem---a weak cricket structure.

Importing players will not address/solve the problem. This could be a shortterm remedy but what happens next?

Pro teams would have to work as a separate program from an actual regional chamionship not as a replacement but as an addition.

In reply to Larr Pullo

Well, that might be the ideal situation, but that is firmly in the category of $%^t that aint gonna happen-or at least no time soon. Instead of panting after a pipe dream, lets see if we can create incentives that prompt the boards to compete for and to sign the best players, like the English counties do.
For example we could:

+offer a substantial cash prize to the board of the championship team, to be inverted in local cricket
+offer a bonus to each Board when a player from its team is selected and plays for the senior team.


Similar incentives are present in English county cricket and they compete to sign the best players from all over England and all over the world.
Frankly , I see such initiatives to being far more likely to happen ( and succeed ) that the pro league idea
(pro as in the USFL? THe WFL? The ABA?)
Lets remember that pro leagues fail too-and more frequently than they succeed)

I certainly don't mind being called an idiot for expressing my opinions. Tough on those who don't like it.

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com
Bad minded people and sport administrators always cause their team to lose-Call a Jack a Jack, maybe Karma is Karma; Murray thrown out, team is embarrassed; in a real accountability system, the selectors would now resign :roll:

An excellent article (apart from the use of "floury theorizing" instead of "flowery theorizing").

As I said in response to Kami's article, replacing a proven performer with someone of a lesser standard just because the latter has youth on his side just serves to lower the standard of the competition as a whole. That lowered standard then adversely impacts the developments of our young cricketers as they do not get to learn or to test themselves against the best players in the region.

In reply to Zikdaman

Funny, it seems to work real well for the Aussies. :D

The only advantage of the pro league pipe dream is that people imagine that it will wrest control of cricket from the local boards. That fact is, it is definitely not a panacea or a sure fire recipe for success-as any owner of a franchise of the USL, the WFL, the ABA, or various third baseball leagues will tell you.
Besides, who the hack do you think will be running sthose franchises, boychick?

Thats right-the folks who currently run the local boards.

the pro league pipe dream is one of the enduring myths of this MB, though, so go ahead-keep dreaming
:wink:
Just remember the best is the enemy of the good.

In reply to kami

Who called you an idiot, kami? Lemme thump him! :evil:

Anywho, looks like your article was the kiss of death for poor JM.

In reply to carib

I do agree that offer of substantial prize money would change how the boards approach the competition. But where is this substantial prize money going to come from. And you'd have to also give substantial prize money to the individual criucketers also wouldn't you? After all, how would you justify giving big money to the board and not the actual players.

Now the question is, how much money are we talking about and where is this money going to come from?

In reply to JOJO

We are dealing with a critical problem---a weak cricket structure.

Importing players will not address/solve the problem. This could be a shortterm remedy but what happens next
===========================

I see these as two issues

1. Should the WWI board here the best players available, regardless or origin? The answer is clearly YES.


2. Should the WWI board bbe reformed and the deadwood replaced? Answer: yes again.
Its not an either\or sitruation.

In reply to carib

None of these failed leagues you mentioned had the advantage of being the prime outlet for a major sport in their area of operation.

In reply to Zikdaman

Now THATS the hard part.
Ideas are easy, financing is tough.
The Carib Cup sponsorship ends this year.
These ideas can be incorporated into the new sponsorship proposal.
Thats the best I can do.

In reply to carib

How much money do you think it would take to trump the present political considerations that prevent boards from going outside for talent?

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com
The problem here is that some ppl cyah read and comprehend very simply written articles both by Kami and Mr. Mark now. B/c some of the comments about youth for youth sake doh seem to jive wid any of the arguments made in either article.

Mark chides Windwards for the dropping of Murray.. I don't think I remember Kami saying anything else but to drop him as keeper (only) to give the younger guys who have a chance at West Indies Senior an opportunity. It is not as if Windwards was winning with Murray in the team and if anybody is to make an argument for Junior the keeper they must indicate how his replacements dropped catches, miss stumped etc so far.

Windwards knew that Murray would probably not take kindly to even the offer of batsman only and should have done it before the season started. As long as the season had started especially with Devon and Sammy out, they should have just given Junior his last year as WK/batsman. It saps whatever little spirit was in the team, the way they went about it. I wonder if Liam is not still carrying an injury. I never read in Kami's article that the Board should not show some common sense when dealing with Junior's retention or release ro whatever they chose to do.

Before the season started I made the point that regional cricket should adopt a system whereby some players are available to be traded/drafted. At the time I suggested each team name 15 and protect 12. The unprotected 3 are free to play where the need is.

Unless and untill the WICB and its members focus on producing the best players for the West Indies cricket team as priority number one we will continue to see this kind of imbalance. It serves no one's best interest to have substandard teams.

Wesley

In reply to Zikdaman

I would say:
US $50,000, to be divided between the players & the Board.
I would also have the WICB pay the board a bonus, based on the amount of playing time a player selected from a regional board plays for the WICB. The idea is to give the Board a financial incentive for developing a Test class player.

The arguments about a pro league etc are powerful, but couldn't the franchise with the most cash not buy up 'all' de best players...leaving the poorest franchise to comprise of the 'windwards'

In reply to hewesleyb

Im not really fond of a Protection scheme, but I would adopt that as a compromise. I"d frankly want to leave it to the board to sign their best 14 or 15.
I would also like to give the Boards
+power to " trade" players, say a Gaja singh for a Javon Searles
+power to sign multi year contracts and to offer signing bonuses.
I would make the system as market driven as possible.
I would limit a team to no more than 3 foreign players, out of concern that a board might want to import an entire team.

In reply to JOJO
First, they have money to pay these Overseas Players?

Secondly, couldnt Junior Murray and the other Senior Players assist in guiding them along in the same way as the Overseas Players? Then why drop him then?

Thirdly, if Overeseas Players saw how Junior was uncermoniously discarded would they be encouraged to come?

Fourthly, arent Overseas Players just scratching the surface of the real problem, which is Windwards' Players do not play enough competitive Cricket? That Windwards Players just like most Windies Players need a Professional League so they can play against the best?

Look, I am very disappointed in Windwards this Season, but when Larr put Rawl in the Doghouse it just showed that some of us are just scratching on the surface, and will never ever grasp what lies beneath... A totally disorganized, inept, and inadequatley financed System.

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

We would have some great clubs in TT and Barbados-and crap teasms in the Windwards?
sound familiar? :wink:

Xactly...you reform to end up same place :lol:

In reply to carib

You are only interested in having players from outside the Windward Islands getting an opportunity , to use the Windward Islands as a spring board to see if they can get on the West Indies Team .

Funny you aint saying that about any other team in the Region ,

ANY IDEA ABOUT PLAYERS FROM OUTSIDE THE WINDWARD ISLANDS PLAYING FOR THE WINDWARD ISLANDS AINT GOING TO HAPPEN .

Here it is that people are criticizing the Windward Islanders Selectors for not picking some players , and you have the temerit to suggest that foreigners should be on the Team . You apparently are crazy .

In reply to POINT

Well we were discussing how to improve the WWI team, the weakest team in the Caribbean.
If you have READ my posts on the issue, you will see that I have said that Guyana should hire young bajan pacers like Bennett & Searles rather than depending on their untalented home grown pacers.
I would also have no problem with the Leewards signing TT spinners like Goljer and Bashan , insead of relying on their no hopers.
And God knows, Jamaica could do with signing some overseas batting talent too, as we have found out.

ALL the boards need to get into signiung the best players available, regardless of origin.

In reply to carib

No it doesnt have to be that way.

We could use a model like the MLS where the players salaries are controlled by the league, and the franchises are leased out by the league. The Franchisees run the teams, but no rich team cant just buy up the best players etc because all that is under the oversight of MLS.

In reply to carib

Why you say that? What would make a pro team in the WWI poorer than a team from TT or Bim?

WE ARE DESPERATE FOR A TRANSFER SYSTEM

In reply to Zikdaman

The ability of the Franciser to pay?

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

You're saying a franchiser from Bim will be more able to pay for talent than a franchiser from the WWI? Why so?

In reply to Zikdaman

Because Barbados is a richer country than say Dominica. Their franchisers wwould have more money, a bigger market, etc-all the things that lead to inenquities in every pro league that has ever been

In reply to carib

Any franchise owner worth his salt would be able to market his team to the entire caribbean area and beyond, no matter on what island it is actually located.

Given that fact, I don't see how a team from Bim or TT would automatically have more money than a team from Dominica.

In reply to kami

Atta girl.. tell them.
:lol:

In reply to Zikdaman
if what you say is true, then in ML baseball, the NY Yankees would have no marketing advantage over the Minnesota Twins, since they reach out to the same US market.
But a marketing person knows that this is complete nonsense. Home markets matter.
But anyway, I'll agree to disagree with you on that.
What do you think of my propsal re the $50,000.00?

All that happened here was the Windwards going through a transitional period. Problem is, there are no players of quality to replace Murray and fill the void left from Sammy and Devon.They really need some batting to attain some respectability here but there is a dearth....maybe a Stuart Williams or a Ridley could help out...where's Currency?

Another factor is that some countries have a lot of talent being forced to sit out year after year without being allowed to develop because they are behind others in their team. Players like Gooljar, Bennett, Perkins etc would benefit from being in either an A'Team in the tournament of they can support a Winwards Team that has few to contribute to the West Indies. The selection would be based on trials and they would compete if they are better than who are in that team then they make it.

Several teams could benefit from this if they lack a pacer or spinner or opener or wicketkeeper and in the end the West Indies would benefit.

The standard in Jamaica & Guyana seems low also , so why not send players there .

WE in the Windward Islands prefer to paddle our own canoe .

What many of you blowhards fail to understand no matter how often I inform you , The Windward Islands aint one land mass , we face logistical problems , the Leeward Islands also . But that is never taken into consideration by those who say they know cricket .

In essence while it is very easy for players from Guyana; Jamaica ; Barbados & Trinidad to have constant TEAM practises , that doesnt happen in either the Windward or Leeward Islands .

Any talk about importing players from outside the Windward Islands , for the purpose of using the Windward Islands as a stepping stone to gain selection on the West Indies Team aint going to fly . Therefore , those of you who espouse that idea need to FORGET IT .

In reply to POINT Hey, we would willing take players from anywhere.

In reply to anandgb

U see then people talk bout one people....u see it dey so fuh yuhself....Point suh everyman brekking fuh heself.....

In reply to OVAL291

That is how it is and that is how it will always be .

Particularly with the mentality that exists in the Region , checkout what happened to the defunct West Indies Federation .

Calling the Windward & Leeward Islands dots is tangible proof of that .

WHEN THERE IS ONE CURRENCY IN THE REGION , IT WOULD BE A SIGN THAT THINGS ARE PROGRESSING TOWARDS UNITY .

Look on this MB people from Jamaica want the West Indies team to be comprised of a lot of Jamaicans , Barbados ditto, same for Guyana and Trinidad .

As I have repeatedly stated I ONLY WANT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD AND EVERY PLAYER GETS THE SAME AMOUNT OF CHANCES SOME HAVE GOT . I really dont think that is to much to ask for .

In reply to POINT


Hamlet Mark is ah good friend but he's off the mark with that part of the article.

Not so much that the Windwards does not need pros. In my view overseas can anhance the way we do things in some aspects, including administration.

The fact is that we all need it. Jamaica and Guyana are showing just as bad seasons and unlike Windwards there is not excuse for them.
Even Trinidad, who are frolicking in victory have to ask themselves some hard questions. are they that good, or the others just that bad?

In reply to POINT

Point wat u r speaking abt does not happen like dat....dis equality u speak abt does not exist in life....

I am curious though can u tell me da players who have been wronged from the Windwards.....

In reply to Tagwa1

I have to agree that your point about everybody needing to bring in people to add to their teams. The fact is when Trinidad changed their approach to the development of players by working on transitioning players from youth cricket they did themselves a good. They have always had good youth teams and youth cricketers but they have never been able to transition. Trinidad does not have a perfect system but they have stopped recycling failures and established meritocracy something that is missing from all teams. Now if you fail you get dropped and because of that everyones numbers are up but its a work in progress.

Trinidad is good because they work at it. Their results may be influenced by the fact that others are bad but the system is superior to all others.