CaribbeanCricket.com Exclusive: This verbatim report, penned by West Indies team physiotherapist Stephen Partridge after the 2006 home series, provides evidence of an astonishing breakdown in communication between the coaching staff and the team on the issue of fitness, training and diet.

At one point during the 2006 home series, the players demanded that the intense physical training program be cancelled, forcing the coaching staff into a no-win situation when trying to manage in-season injuries. The report is published verbatim (typos included) but we have deleted information detailing personal injuries and illnesses Full Story

who is Renako Morton?

In reply to Rovdawg

(typos included)

_r

In reply to Admin These guys all need to take their jobs seriously.

Athletes complaining about rigor seem strange to say the least.

Their bodies are their most potent tool, why do they not want it is sharp as possible?

Anyone who fails to keep up should be fired until they shape up.

The board should issue an ultimatum immediately. It is utter nonsense

I am calling for all those who did not adhere to be asked why not and dealt with accordingly. We all know a story has three sides to it.

"During the current series a players meeting in St Lucia (May 06) concluded that the physical loading being undertaken was too excessive and that hence forth this should be largely cancelled. The players concluded that the amount and intensity of work was responsible for injury and general player fatigue. The decree was presented in such that to have not acquiesced would have made further relations with the group untenable."

Hold on a second here. Who the hell is in charge? "to have not acquiesced would have made further relations with the group untenable" means the players completely call there own shots and there is nothing management can do to get them to follow prescribed instructions?

No organization can possibly function properly in this sistuation.

If Ken Gordon knowingly and willingly allowed this situation to continue - assuming this report accurately refelects what was going on - he is a moron. If the all powerful my way or the highway head coach Bennett Kings allowed it to continue he is a moron. Are Gordon and King really that powerless and stupid?

On the other side, is there something to the players' concerns about fatigue and too many injuries?

The other question is whether this report gives all sides of the story.

One way or another this smells of bullshite.

In reply to Admin

the definition of verbatim

Another reason for Lara to go.

Man the Trinis are a hard headed bunch to manage eh.and the Guyanese pretty close ..fellas that stand out as not being cooperative and training as they were supposed to are...


Dwayne Bravo
Dinesh Ramdin
Ramnaresh Sarwan
Shiv Chanderpaul...

Marlon got a copout excuse..

Whata lazy bunch of high paid skunts

In reply to sabina Are you a union rep?

you cant take guys off the street and expect them to be ready or close to been ready...if they have contracts then you demand a minimum level of readiness.

Why is this described as a CC.com exclusive?
Wasn't much of this aired in the 500 plus scross thread?

In reply to GaMan

Sooo where was the 500+ thread?

It's an exclusive because nobody else could be bothered publishing it. Mutiny indeed. :roll:

In reply to WMD

TriniD pointed out dis section about five days ago on Sabina's thread. How does dat libelous statement belong in ah fuggin medical report? TriniD assumed dat ah medical report wud be object and based on fact, not one void of factual evidence and based totally on speculation... Somebody sound like dem have an axe tuh grind.

In reply to Trinidave Can you blame them? Where there is smoke there is bound to be fire...all are saying the same things and have been for years now..why can't you people get it?

It's a report about medical and fitness issues, not a medical and fitness report. I think Smiffy summed it up, a couple of years ago: 'Slack fuckers.'

In reply to anandgb

I looking from a management perspective here. No way any employees in a properly run organization could unilaterally decide they going to stop listening to their supervisors and not face consequences.

This report cannot possible be the full story. Or if it is the WICB and BK are even more facted up than I thought possible.

In reply to Trinidave

"Somebody sound like dem have an axe tuh grind."

You realize this report if fully accurate is as damning an indictment of Ken Gordon and Bennett King and Clive lloyd as it is of the players.

If the players acted as described, anybody with pride would either drop all of them or resign.

In reply to GaMan In as much as scross aired the entire report inclusive of injuries and illnesses on this MB readers and posters would know this as old news. One can only conclude that scross is the source of this article?

In reply to sabina

CH Lloyd wasn't around the team at the time. Tony Howard was team manager.

_r

In reply to sabina

You say no employees in a properly run organization could act unilaterally like this? Think about the whole labor versus management approach and mindset that is prevalent on this board and in the region and that should answer your question.

WICB has a lot of issues, but the players are as responsible. These guys don't have the personal pride and professionalism to come to camp in shape. Obviously this would be aided by retainer contract, of which there are two few and have been late to come, but what excuse could men on the retainer contracts have for not being in shape?

In reply to primedog Ramnarine will bail us out :lol:

In reply to primedog

"You say no employees in a properly run organization could act unilaterally like this?"

Not without getting they asses fired or dropped.

In reply to Admin

Was Lloyd aware of this report and believed it and then took the job he did?

He a damn fool then.

In reply to sabina

Gordon and King don't play cricket. The team is the cash cow..... and by extension (according to some here), those who bring in the money are sacrosanct. Tek dat and chill.

In reply to Runs RE Bravo: His diet is also of major concern, consisting of much sugar and little else. Whether he truly believes some of his foundation beliefs (sugar is energy, I need to rest not bowl etc) or that these are just for path of least resistance. We need to be consistent in our messages concerning his approach to training and diet. I suspect any gains will be gradual and will directly linked to the level of support we gain from his fellow countryman and patron.

Hummmmmmmmmmm....................

Sars behaviour according to this report, is terrible

Ramdin is another clown........more reason to play Baugh who obviously seems more interested in improving his fitness and game

Stale news. Is only a pity this report was not publish 6 months ago. That way we would have gotten rid of the sorry lot, Captain included. This team was on a disater course for the WC for a while now. We just finding out. Dumbass players. Training causing yu to be injured. Steups.

In reply to jala Where is de gunman these days? :lol:

HERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE NOW REDBARON!!! Sarwan lying, even realise now that he is one of the shirkers of the requisite fitness for top class cricket.

I don't know what Bennett King's reputation was back in Australia, but it seems that he's taken a similar approach to that which Woolmer took with Pakistan. Where Pakistan had Inzi, the Windies, Lara. They should have cracked the whip harder.

In reply to bimbo U must be a bimbo indeed. When was Lloyd referring to, what peoiod? When was this report penned? Please do your self some justice and stay quiet

In reply to sabina

So beenie, you think Lloyd had to read this report to be aware of what goes on?? How long you been following WI cricket bro?

Players have NEVER been accountable for their behaviour. Ask Rohan Kanhai or anyone who has ever managed or coached this team.

In reply to Runs

These guys are always ready to fully support their own right or wrong. If they a bunch of fat lazy sugar eating skunts, that’s what they facting are.

In reply to faada

"Players have NEVER been accountable for their behaviour."

If so you just summed up all the problems of WI cricket in one sentence.

In reply to sabina

Well, not all, but that's a big part of it.

In reply to faada

Ah cyan remember who was captain during Kanhai stint? Ah hope it wasn't Lara? Cause he woulda been mis-leading dem boys for a long time

The sad facting thing is the program they think is too hard the Indians doing it easy. Bunch of facting lazy ass mother fathers.

In reply to Bigdog2

And how did India do in CWC07? and where is their coach now?

In reply to sabina

Ent this is the same set ah feeble excuse for not doing job that QuislingCross post???

Why the recycling, then? What's new?

Basically what it amounts to is that the trainer was incapable of managing interpersonal relationships with those he was supposed to help with their fitness, and once he failed at that, it was inevitable that he would fail at doing the core job.

Fitness training is a very sensitive thing and requires that almost total trust exist between the trainer and the trainees. Clearly, this trainer did not earn the trust of the players, or if he did, he lost it early on.

Why?

It's just that players do not write reports on trainers, so trainer's report gets all the attention and foolish people and people with agendas hasten to accept it as truth when it's just one side of the story.

It's a fact that that trainer's programs were causing injuries to the players - in some cases injuries that kept players out of the game and forced them to temporarily abandon one or more of their areas of performance to prevent injury from causing permanent damage and to allow injury time to heal.

And while injured by his incopmpetence, the very said trainer would try to force an injured player to do things that would aggravate the injury, despite knowing that the player was injured.

The number and frequency of injuries increased after he tek ovaaaa...despite very few happening during match play.

Why? Why were players getting injured when not playing - the time when they most at risk?

Why have players who were good performers fall away under his jusridiction because of injury problems?

And the question still remains unanswered, despite your valiant effort - why did the trainer and coach fail to identify a condition affecting a player that was manifested by apparent drop in performance due to low energy levels?

My conclusion is that this coach and his trainer were from the outset not suitable for the WI team and have proved to be unsuitable in practice. The have produced no improvement.

All they have produced is reports saying why they failed. Is that what they were employed and paid so handsomely to do?

I, for one, would like to know.

In reply to redbaron

Look this is not an attack on any of your beloved Trinis so no need to show you much of an insecure asshole you are!

This is not about interpersonal relationships as it is about a chronic problem of indiscipline and lack of professionalism on the part of our players.

If Dwayne Bravo is talking bullshit about sugar is energy and all that, that silly and unprofessional. Over and over guys have been coming to camp out of shape. Its piss poor and so you little strawman argument is of no value here.

Across the board the players have got to be more accountable. There performance in the world cup speaks for itself.

This is something that WIPA should be looking into, whether or not the lack of professionalism of its members is calling the game into disrepute.

In reply to redbaron You have alot of excuses for all the shytehound players.they bawl that the sun is too hot,they bawl that they are not feeling good,but when nightime come they all out on the road lookin woman.This is as poor as a side that I can remember.Lara needs to resign and all the rest of them should go.drop them all and start over with a young shytehound side,they surely could do no worse and they could possibly improve.this rabble is done!!

In reply to redbaron and by the way all your shytehound trini players should be the first to go :( :(

In reply to sabina

Why? Was Kanhai accountable for his behaviour? Were any of the others who coached this and any other WI team accountable for their behaviour?

Was excessive rum drinking acceptable behaviour? Was golfing on cricket time acceptable behaviour? Do I need to cite other "behaviour"?

Players were never accountable for their behaviours and this team did not invent that so they must not be singled out for that.

As long as they winning players are not held accountable by these hypocrites and it's only because this team is losing that this accountable shyte is being raised as an issue by the same people who never worried about that before.

I not in that shit. Their predecessors set the precedents they follow, so don't come tell me shyte about "players not accountable?".

That is pure hysterical babbling by old fools who live in their own little worlds.

And I say nothing of the fact that the reason for non-accountability lies with management - not the managed.

Leff dem fools...let them babble on.

In reply to primedog

If you have indisputable proof that Dwayne bravo said that, come with it, or else HYMC.

This is not about Trini players, you asshole. This is about you asses accepting a litany of excuse making by a failure to vilify the players because you asses are too big asses to know that one side of a story is not necessarily "truth".

Now unless you have something sensible to say, I have no time for you small minded simpletons, so fugg off.

When a fitness trainer is enough of an incompetent ass to try to work against his charges instead of with them to achieve the goals, he is destined to engender their mistrust and alienation, causing his agenda to fail.

When a trainer fails to understand that these are MEN...not boys, and fails to respect them, he is doomed to fail.

They might not be very good cricketers, but they are MEN...and they make money for the WICB....win or lose. Plenty money.

The nature and language of that "report" say that it was written by someone who never had any respect for the people with whom he was supposed to work and thus attached no value to whatever they had to say about his programs.

Thus, instead of listening to them and trying to achieve reasonable compromise, he obviously preferred to try to inflict his will upon them...with inevitable results.

Instead of trying persuasion, he preferred to try coercion, only to find out that the tail nuh wag the dog. People don't pay to watch fitness trainer...they pay to watch cricketers.

So he find out the price of cocoa and write report, and allyuh bitching here.

Who more likely to go...failed fitness trainers, or cricketers - winning or losing.

Allyuh fools realise that the WICB just make 11.5 million from losing cricketers, with much more to follow?

How much allyuh think they will make from fitness trainer - succed or fail?

Allyuh set ah dotish asses.

These are our heroes, the cricketers we adore and hope that one day they will bring us glory….. What arses we all are. These folks do not need a coach, or a trainer. They need a MASSA to kick their arses, and drill them into shape to fight the fight that is needed so that they can stand with the Aussies in the same arena or come close to standing next to our real West Indian heroes of old.

The old boys had the same facilities or worse to deal with and delivered the best the world has ever seen in Cricket. What else do these morons want? I am sure WIPA could answer that – Actually they probably already have a contract asking for increased compensation for injuries…..

Our ignominious heroes

Men are boys. Look around. This board proves it ten times over, every day.

In reply to redbaron

Except for Bravo who apparently can't make an informed choice on eating either chicken, rice and veggies or 12 strawberry popsicles for dinner .

In reply to Rovdawg

Stop lying of course he can. He call up DiBass and DiBass inform him which choice to make.

Thereby he make "informed" choice!

If this report was published sometime ago we could have saved the embarrasment in the World Cup Tournament. I recomend that the WICB get a coach with military background. I suggest these players be fined at least 50% of thier match fees for poor conditioning. I also recomend that the West Indies provide better facilites for the players. If them can't or unwilling to change attitude drop them and get youngsters who have the right attitude. Cut the politics out of the cricket.

Everyone who thinks that the training regime causing injuries missing the whole point of the report. It is because the player came to camp unfit why they are get injured during camp. Every professional player in the US have a professional trainer that keep them fit. Even high school prospects have personal trainers. Windies players don't understand what it means to be a professional athlete. All they want to do is show up, play little cricket, pickup them check, go dance and look woman.

I may be dumb as every one else here but this is not the first time I am hearing about players resisting training regimen. I think sometime back it was mentioned what Walsh did on his own and versus some players who dont do anything prior to and after training camp. Ive heard it happened in Logie's time, Harpers time etc so these here may just be continuing the trend to the further detriment of Windies cricket.

I would hope these guys are not resisting out of laziness which I doubt since some of them have had County etc contracts and have to train there. Shiv saw the difference intense training and fitness brought him better scores and improved fielding.

In any case the Euro cricketers miles ahead of us in fitness and game preparation and the India and now Pak team taking clues from them and have improved. Its why we are in 8th place in all rankings and Bang soon will pass us. WICB has to establish a fitness center in each region with a trainer equipped with the knowledge on cricket training methods.

We boys want more beers and women 8)

Pls note that Dr Mansingh was there only because he was the invited guest of Ricky Skerritt. He was not there because the WICB arranged for him to be there. And you will recall in st Kitts that he was called upon to attend to Shiv. Go back and read the Skerritt 3-part interview.

In reply to Yamfoot

When you have time check Chrissy's journalist thread for reply to your post.

Am interested in what your response will be, you being one of the better journalists who post here, IMO.

In reply to wanchaps

Let's assume that piece of crap is true.

So tell us - what kind of incompetent idiot calling himself fitness trainer will inflict a training regime on people he knows to be unfit such as to injure them?

If that was true and he was any good, wouldn't he say to the player "you are not fit and have to do gradual exercise (or whatever) to avoid getting injured by fitness training"?

Isn't a fitness trainer required to assess the fitness level of his charges BEFORE deciding on fitness training regime for them...precisely to avoid unncessary injury?

How come allyuh doesn't know when allyuh chatting shit and I does be able to see that so easy?

How come allyuh cyah smell a dead rat that stinking to high heaven...or, to be more accurate, a red herring?

No fitness trainer can sell me that load of crap. If they come to camp unfit, fitness trainer job is to get them fit... without causing injury...by FIRST assessing fitness levels and THEN applying fitness traiing regime to suit.

No wonder the players write off his incompetent ass. Causing injury to players and then saying they get injured becuase they were not fit.

The brass of that idiot con man...what the ass is his job, then...if not to get them fit? If they come to camp fit, he have any job?

The greater wonder is his how dumb...how gullible allyuh people are, to be taken in by that red herring.

Well said RB, well said.

Of course after a few bad losses the natural reaction is to try and just blame the players for being lazy. The underlying assumption is that once hard discipline is imposed on them as if they were errant school children our results will instantly improve. All the while we ignore the fact that the facilities are woefully inadequate and these same lazy players are not even afforded the services of a masseur.

I am sure that there are one or two players who are genuinely lazy. It takes a lot of mental discipline to keep hitting the gym day after day. However there is more going on here than just that.

The onus was one BK and his Australian staff to raise the fitness level of the players gradually and in a manner in which the players would buy into his ideas. Instead he immediately thrust the players into an intense fitness programme to the point where players did become fatigued and injured. The players honestly felt that their performance on the field was suffering and worse they were sustaining injury from overload. Once that happened it was inevitable that they would not be committed to the programmes that BK were pushing.

You can talk all the theory you want but if the players actual experience is that the fitness program is having the opposite of the desired effect. ie performance is decreasing then they will not be committed to the program... and without committment it is inevitable that they will not follow the program to the level that the coaches mandated.

So any finger of blame must fall on the coaching staff in adition to the players.

look, the problem is that outside of tours, there is no accountability. The players can slack off as much as they want to when they are back home, and there is no consequence.

Every time that the trainer gets players to a certain fitness level, they go back and lapse. As previous trainers have said, if you come in at a low fitness level, it is harder to bring you up to optimal fitness in time for the tour.

So what are you suggesting? That the players must be allowed to report to camp unfit, be allowed to play and be allowed to dictate the terms of their training sessions? THAT is crap!

there must be some consequence to being unfit at the time of selection. Who not fit, don't go pon tour. Simple as that. I am sure with all dem players dem have in the West Indies, dem must can come up with a suitable 13 - 15.

Is time for dis dictator mentality from the players to stop!

You will soon learn who the stars of fitness are, in addition to the ones you have read in the front page article.

In reply to Yamfoot

You go Yammie. These facting people just wanna blame the trainer cuz it is easier than to criticize their favorite player(s)

In reply to anandgb

it's incredible that there is even a debate going on over whether or not the players should be held responsible for their own fitness!!!!!

Too many vested interests I guess, some vested in Lara, some vested in discrediting coach, some invested in bringing down the board.

Anyone BUT the players should be responsible. :roll:

Well said Tilto ..Skurt and Redarse cannot accept reality..we need a new look team a new leader and new fcaking players how much worse can hey really be. I am disappointed with the players totally

In reply to Admin I saw the West Indies pre-game preparation in Guyana and it was appalling and I now see what is going on if this report is the whole story. The patients running the asylum. Their approach in Guyana was most unprofessional and lackadaisical and when you looked at the otherside of the field at the Sri Lankans they looked a professional disciplined unit. Based on this report we have for the most part an entire team revolting from training we have a bunch of immature unprofessional morons representing the West Indies!!!!

Has been going on for years its like a bunch of renegades against a professional army.

In reply to Yamfoot

I whoeheartedly agree with what you have said .

But unknown to the morons on this MB , it is a fact that when a person is physically tired , their mental thought process starts detoriating .

I have stated this many times on this MB . When that happens ,mental lapses begins , and can in most cases cause errors in judgement that can affect a player 's ability in all aspects of the game .

As I have also stated several times on this MB ; our current players JUST DONT KNOW WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A PROFESSIONAL CRICKETER .

It is for that reason why they are a sad sorry bunch of Cry Babies . Maybe it is good that they aint playing County Cricket in England to further embarass us . Because I have no doubt that with the kind of attitude most of them have , the Counties in England would send them packing .

There is however an easy way to remedy this situation , WRITE INTO THEIR CONTRACTS THAT THEY MUST REPORT TO CAMP FIT AT ALL TIMES , FAILURE TO DO THAT ,MEANS 45% DEDUCTION OF THEIR PAY CHECK .
SECOND OFFENSE 65% DEDUCTION .
THIRD OFFENSE OFF THE FREAKING TEAM FOR GOOD .

Granted they aint making the kind of money that players from Australia , England etc are making . BUT BY WEST INDIAN STANDARDS THESE GUYS ARE GETTING TOP DOLLARS . LIVING , DINING AND SLEEPING IN GOOD HOTELS .

But as I have already stated , it seems to me that certain people are being given enough rope to hang themselves , and evidently they dont mind committing HARI KARI .

I am absolutely certain that if they were fit they would have performed well enough to satisfy the fans in the Region .

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

and your point is?

I see no one has addressed RB's points.

Remember this ?

BK instituted a fitness program that left the players fatigued come match day. Their performances then regressed with the inevutable result that the players became disenchanted with the BK's fitness program.

BK's responsibility, as he readily admits, was to get the players to buy in to his program. By pushing too hard up front so that performances regressed he failed in that responsibility. Maybe he was right and that if the players had stuck with his program they would have reaped the rewards in the long run. However, it's going to be tough selling that to players who could be long dropped by then.

man, some people here does talk some shit!!

Rohan Kanhai pretty much reported to the board that CERTAIN players were indisciplined and lazy. What they do? Fire him!

Now, someone pointed that out and RedMoron questioned Kanhai's behavior as a player! How disgusting can one get to defend the crap that is going on?!!

Kanhai and Sobers would play drunk and yet player much better than these morons. So, why questioning these greats? They delivered the goods!!

What are these guys delivering? Pizza??

Please desist from questioning our greats! They made us proud and gave respect to WI cricket.

Most here ready to blame the coach, yet not able to see that the players are too damn lazy and indisciplined to become professionals.

In reply to googley

maan, doh mek dem rassholes mek you vex, they will do or say anything to justify player indiscipline, or just simply throw red-herrings at you.

In reply to googley

So Kanhai and Sobers, among other "greats", set such "great" examples and when the players that came after emulate them, perhaps not to the letter but in spirit, you blame the followers...not the leaders?

It's just like I said - allyuh condone...approve, even...of unprofessionalism and indiscipline by those who win and see no conflict in condemning the same thing by those who lose.

So, for allyuh c**ts, professionalism and discipline is only necessary when you losing. The "great" winners do not have to set example for lesser mortals to emulate - not according to you jackasses.

If the players are too lazy and indisciplined to become professionals under this coach, that's all the more reason for him to go, since allyuh say that those players are "the best we have" when the squad was chosen.

If he cannot work with "the best we have" - acording to allyuh - then he is of no use and must be replaced.

Or is it that allyuh ready to turn allyuh tongue and no longer saying "is the best we have"??

Allyuh vacillating too much...mek up allyuh frigging minds, one way or the other. This frigging "any how the wind blow" flip-flop mentality by allyuh is unacceptable.

When Kanhai and Sobers used to play, all countries prepared the same way. Times have changed. Commercially u cannot compete in any sector using method's used in d 60s. WI cricket has always been a reflection of our society. Same way we can't compete in da global marketplace anymore these days. Same so in da cricket.

You cannot compare the players from the pre-Packer era with those from the post-Packer era. I do not imply that there is a clear demarcation between these two eras, rather I'm pointing out that post-Packer cricketers have been engaging in highly paid, seriously modern professional sport. That call for accountability, minimum levels of standard, abilities, fitness, and personal responsibility, all of these are in addition to the all the old pre-Packer values of playing for the pride of mother country, resistance and empowerment of the natives in the pre-colonials periods.

from #8 to last place in the next 5 to 10 years in both forms of the game looms large :evil: :evil:

In reply to DIEHARD Absoluteley correct. Basically we were still on the learning curve then and gleaning what we could from English cricket. I has been said that back then the players from both sides went to the pubs etc together after or before games. So it was par for the course. Today with the amount of money and the demands to be #1- something that did not exist then- teams have some rigid as heck training regimen.

It was said that when we were beating everyone Chappel said to LLoyd that they were tired of being beaten by WI and the OZ Board was developing a plan that would eveolve over 10 years to put them at a higher level. Lo and behold whatever they planned it is working as predicted and they are sticking to it.I once read an article on the OZ cricket site where they said that parts of the plan drew from the successes of other teams and a big part was from watching the approach LLoyds team used when on the field.

I dont think it was coincidence that OZ came out with a three prong with a developing leggie named Warne. Warne was essentila to combat what the OZ considered their most important cricket matches the "Ashes". They knew Englands propensisty to collapse to legspin bowling as Warne and others continue to prove. Wheter we believe it or not the rivalry between OZ and England is the biggest thing in Test cricket - no need to say why. We and the others are an afterthough and just a means to add to the coffers. Oz felt that by developing a dominating tean versus England the team will continue to grow from there.

Windies has to 1-target their biggest rival, 2- formulate a plan to chip away at that rival, 3-Find the players that can be tailored to the plan 4- Once players are identified start them early on the 'disciplines' needed if they want to be Test players and stick to it. ( The OZ players now playing doesnt mean that there arent some other other cricketers not putting up great numbers in Ozland. It may well be that some better players dont have the attitude and attributes needed to make the Test team) There may be a reason why some come into the team in the late 20s plus- mental toughness perhaps?

In reply to Scar & Diehard u guys making too much sense for some posters on this board to understand. They have their heads up you know where grasping at anything but to face the facts!

The rest of the world changed and WI remained the same or in some cases took backward steps!

redbaron

You wrote... "what kind of incompetent idiot calling himself fitness trainer will inflict a training regime on people he knows to be unfit such as to injure them?"

You will obviously not be swayed by logic, but just in case... The first question is why would the players show up to camp unfit. They have a responsibility to show up to camp in shape... that's their job. If I'm a lawyer can I show up to course to defend somebody's life and not read over their file? Can a doctor not stay current on his journal reading and try to practice medicine? Can a plumber show up to your job without a wrench?

Accountability cuts all ways. WICB needs to be accountable and the players need to be accountable. Unlike you, I'm not willing to be so close to the players as to collect their stool samples to prove that you boy Bravo eating nothing but sugar? The truth is the truth. I'm not criticizing him really if he just gets his act together and move on... grow up.

I know for a fact that all the players are given individualized workout regimens to undergo when they are not with the team. The players have to take a certain amount of pride in themselves to follow through on what's required of them.

Anyone who can blame the Windies shameful performance on Bennett King is just willful and bad minded. The team played poorly early on, and later on just looked like they quit. No pride.

To whom much is given much is expected.

Them guys get what? Upwards of $140 grand each to appear in the world cup and play like that?

In reply to primedog

Ah wish I knew how much England players get.....and the Indians and the pakistanis

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

I don't think it make any difference what the players fromn the other countries made. India and Pakistan have their own issues to deal with after being bumped out in the first round.

This issue here is really about Windies. A post mortem so to speak just before the dying victim is removed from life support.

Losing is one thing. Showing no fight is another, and failing to prepare is yet another.

In reply to primedog

The first question is if it's true that they show up unfit. So far we have only the word of a failed firness trainer who has to offer excuses for his failure so he's not going to be the best source of truth in the matter.

He is far more likely to say what would make him look good and try to shift blame instead of taking responsibility for his failure.

Therefore, unlike you shyte-swallowing fools, I take what he says with a pinch of salt.

But let's, for argument sake, assume that he's telling the truth and that they did show up unfit. Does that erase his responsibility to:

1. DETERMINE WHAT LEVEL OF FITNESS THEY WERE AT

2. IMPLEMENT A FITNESS TRAINING PROGRAM TO TAKE THEM FROM THAT LEVEL TO THE DESIRED LEVEL WITHOUT CAUSING INJURY

3. REPORT THAT HE DID THAT INSTEAD OF REPORTING THAT HIS ILL-ADVISED AND BADLY IMPLEMENTED FITNESS TRAINING REGIMES CAUSED INJURY TO THE PLAYERS BECUASE THEY WERE NOT FIT

Tell me - how the ass can a fitness trainer worth his salt come to tell we that he injured his charges with fitness training because they were not fit?

When did he discover that they were not fit...before, or after he imposed inappropriate fitness training on unfit players?

Hello, idiot fitness trainer - if they were fit they would not need you. That's your job - to find them unfit and make them fit...not to bitch that they were not fit and to injure them.

But the much bigger idiots are you people who fail to understand that and give the time of day to that pretender fitness trainer who nuh seem to know his ass from a hole in the ground.

There are so many holes in his excuse-making offering that it amazes me that you fools would swallow his crap so easily - no questions asked.

Allyuh worse than he.

In reply to redbaron

When a fitness trainer is enough of an incompetent ass to try to work against his charges instead of with them to achieve the goals, he is destined to engender their mistrust and alienation, causing his agenda to fail.


I have been reading your contribution to these forums now for quite sometime, and eventhough I found at time that you were a little off, I oftentimes enjoy what you have to say, however, this one takes the cake. You have to let some go, I love the West Indies and I would forever be a supporter but you really cannot defend this bunch. There is no need to seek evidence the truth is right before your very eyes, these guys have no pride. As an aside, I really don't like how he tried to rope Lara into his assault on Bravo. We know that Lara favours Bravo but I don't think that that was neccessary.

In reply to primedog

You fool, nobody blaming the losses on PretenderKing...leastways, not me.

I am quite clear in my mind that that team would lose a lot in this WC because of the many shyte hounds failures included in the squad and the lack of any improvement over the past 3 years.

I was always clear about that - PretenderKing or not.

What people are saying is that he was hired, paid very handsomely and given wide ranging powers that no previous coach had so that he would improve the performance of the WI cricket team.

You will agree that that has not happened, and if anything, things have gotten worse since he took over, culminating in WC losses instead of wins - what he was hired to produce.

Thus, since he has failed to do what he was hired to do and has had enough time to do it, he must go, and take his bridal retinue with him.

Regardless of what the players issues are, PretenderKing and his bridesmaids have failed and the WICBanduits have wasted another $million with no benefit to WI cricket.

What part of that too hard for you to understand?

In reply to truebaj

That is typical of the inability of the shallow-brained people here to follow a discussion.

Fool....this:



..does not defend anyone. It is an attempt to try to get foolish people of lesser intelligence here to understand how good interpersonal relationships play a vital part in the success of a fitness training program, and that the winning of trust is absoultelly essential to that success.

If you unable to discuss at that level and you only capable of "defend this bunch" simpleton shyte, don't bother me. I'm not partial to wasting my time on simpletons.

I don't need to defend "this bunch", as you call them. "This bunch", you idiot, good, bad or horrible, are the ONLY PEOPLE essential to WI cricket - cricketers. That simple fact seems to defeat your intelligence.

It totally escapes you and the other fools that while many presidents, CEOs, coaches, trainers, managers, selectors, etc, etc have been discarded over the years, many of "this bunch" still around. Why?

Because they play cricket and those others don't. It's that simple.

And that's why I don't have to defend them...they defend themselves adequately.

In reply to truebaj

List all the things they need to be proud of and let's discuss them.

Remember...they from a region that has so little pride and so little shame that it allows a dishonorary white blood money traitor to black people in general, caribbean people in particular and WI cricket to criticise cricketers who, as badly as they play, have never betrayed their country and their people for blood money.

Nary a voice among those of you who want those guys to have "pride" is raised against that fugging dishonorary white MC traitor when he disses mediocre but loyal cricketers. That is how much pride allyuh have.

Now tell me again...what they must have pride for? For allyuh lovers of dishonorary whites?

Allyuh fugging hypocrites. Allyuh pride up in allyuh arses.

Is this man serious? Mi granny. Its like a criminal blaming the police who catch him for being in jail.
So the lazy, well-paid asshats who show up for the series unfit can blame the coach for wukking them too hard, while eating a diet of mostly sugar!

Man, if this is what passes for reasoning in WI cricket, we are truly doomed!

Ask yourself what would happen if Australian players tried to pull this crap!
They would never play for Australia again-and not a soul would miss them or defend them!

Go deh St Kitts.

In reply to cwry
Such a damning report should have strengthened the
WICB's hand into taking action against the lazy bunch
but like in the past these matters are just swept
under the carpet and the team's performance gets
worse(r) and worse(r).

But I believe and hope that the disastrous performance
of the team in the WC and the outrage of the Caribbean
people will force the Board to bite the bullet and drop
all the slackers and pick a new team for Egl.

In reply to redbaron
What do you do with grown men, who deal with their responsibilities like children? Treat them as such! Whether they be black, red, yellow green or white, and that goes for the person who has to treat them like children. I'm sure the great white Hype did run them into the ground after the showed up unfit for camp, as he should have. Run their arses into the ground, mek dem feel pain, mek dem realise the WI cricket fan must be shown some respect. The players and yourself seem to think is dem run WI cricket. Is not dem and is not d board, is we, is we working hard (harder dan dem) to earn we money to pay and go watch dem. If we weren't so interested in their success or failure there would be no WICB or team. They soon realise when these piss poor performances completely alienate us. It has already started to happen