Caribbean cricket is at a desperately low ebb, and there's little hope of things improving the way they're going at the moment 

We are all dewy-eyed about West Indies cricket. With both frustration and sadness in his voice, one eminent former Australian captain doubted the present team would have beaten the stronger Sydney grade sides of his time. We tell stories of battles past against some of the most brilliant cricketers the world has seen and pick teams that have Clive Lloyd as captain, four fast bowlers, and Jeffrey Dujon behind the sticks.

None of this helps Jason Holder's men. They are victims of history, as were the Welsh rugby team for so long. The only difference is that the Welsh rugby players kept busting a gut. Some of Holder's number look resigned to the inevitable. Test cricket offers no hiding place. Long days and the vignettes that are an integral part of them strip a man bare. One cannot help but feel for Holder, who has been sent to the wolves as much because of a lack of options as anything else. He is a promising cricketer trying to make his way in three formats of a complex and widely profiled game. His standards are high and his dignity unimpeachable. But the captaincy, though a great honour, is surely a burden.

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With an international suggestion, such as this from Nicholas, which many WIndians of a certain ilk crave as vindication for their separation pronouncements gone largely unheard or not responded to, Ja and TT can now resolve to go it alone. Strike whilst the iron is hot, Guys.


theQuack, diehard, mikesiva, Point, Itito, jockstrap, Camos, this is your moment. Don't waste it.

In reply to sudden

Wtf man, you ever heard me cussing for going it alone?

Call in you friend DisCourtesy and ask him to show you where i ever supported going it alone.

I'm a West Indian..I'm stuck in the past, I'm holding on to the beautiful legacy of being a WI fan, passed on to me by my father and uncles.

Which is why I am disgusted by what the administration has done.

Now I'm fully aware that a myriad of factors have conributed to the decline of the game, but the admin has done zero to halt or reverse the decline, thay have indeed hastened it.

I am from the same school Viv was from as well, in that, I see race and politics in this as well. And going it alone, would just allow the rest of the cricketing world to say, "See, its a fluke, a bunch of people of colour, former colonies, banding together to be the best in the world, cannot be sustainable"

Thank you Dave, for proving them right, we can't sort our shite out. I weep for the older WI cricket fan, who passed the love of this thing called WI cricket onto the next generation, it was passed on as a source of pride, and an indication of what we people from the islands can do when we pull together and work hard.

Now i will have to pass it on to the next generation as what goes wrong when self interest is put before the greater good, as if we short of examples of that around ere

In reply to sudden

So let me get this clear.

Hypothesis - West Indian cricket needs to go it alone.

Supporting statement - There is little hope of improvement under the current structure.

So go it alone Jamaica/Barbados/Trinidad/Guyana will be better?

None of those islands can field a competitive Test team.
None of those islands can field a competitive ODI team.

So the only thing we come back to is T20. The gold standard for T20 go it alone is TnT right? Give me the best Red Force team and explain to me how that is better than the West Indies T20 team. Not go it alone vs go it alone.

Red Force have no replacement for Gayle, Russell or Samuels.

The stupidity of the whole discussion would be enjoyable if it didn't take itself so serious.

In reply to DIEHARD

Hahaha. I stand corrected. But when you support quacks and invalids (Chalkie) you get lumped together

In reply to sudden

So, where did you hear that I was president of the JCA? No country going it alone, when they can feed at the trough....

The point being made by Cozier and Nicholas is since there is no progress under this WICB, and no hope of progress, given their intransigence, then why not?

Why not, indeed?

Otherwise, you end up in a situation where the WICB is trying to market a toxic product...the West Indies Test team. Who wants to watch them?

In reply to mikesiva

Where does Cozier make that point?

You write about it all the time. You champion it. Does that mean you don't support going it alone?


Btw I never said you were the president. I said you should try to become the president

In reply to sudden

I concur.

In reply to mikesiva

Neither truth nor facts matters to this herd.

They will just pull stuff out of their...er.. nether regions and, if repeated often enough, they think it becomes the truth.

Lumping people together and ascribing a common position to them, without or not they espoused such a position,is just the latest example of their dishonesty...no blatant lying!!!

In reply to jacksprat

You are talking to the wrong man. it is Diehard you ought to be addressing

Answer:

Yes for T20 and ODIs.

In reply to thefacts

But stay as the West Indies for Tests?

In reply to nick2020

oh boy. it gets weirder

In reply to sudden

Kind Sir, when you lump people together, and assume all individuals with common physical or geographical attributes are the same..you normally get called things like..bigot..racist..etc.,

In reply to DIEHARD

They think everyone is like them!

And have you noticed the lack of diversity of opinion of this herd?

One of them just has to put out an opinion-usually a Big Lie- and it is like a echo chamber with them with all of them piling on and repeating the same lie.

This herd of Disingenuous Dinosaurs(TM) will likely become extinct because of lack of diversity-of opinion...and genes

In reply to jockitch

We are witnessing perfidy unparalleled on this MB from you.

Jockitch you are a dishonest skunt of the highest order.

Now as usual, go eat yourself.

……………………

On cue: A coalescing of the lying inbred Disingenuous Dinosaurs

Soon to be extinct!!!

In reply to DIEHARD

how about when you lump those with a common argument / cause?

In reply to jacksprat

That's weak coming from a "dirty stink mouth" like you.



Now eat what's left of yourself. I have provided the delectable gravy above.

Such an admission!
No one is interested in your lack of oral hygiene!! Keep it to yourself.

SHAMELESS-CAUGHT IN ANOTHER LIE Lie!!!!



Thankfully you can't edit the archives, like you can your lying post, to keep perpetrating your Big Lie!!!

In reply to jacksprat

Brother stop the shit...so you did not post "St.Lucian Double Ugly" too?

You want me to post this too? Answer me dis?

In reply to jacksprat

how about replying or responding to the one about "Coach Uglyman Bajan"

In reply to sudden

De Jockitch has made numerous mention of coach uglyman bajan and the likes as well as St.Lucian Double ugly in reference to former Prez Sir Julian Hunte.

Like a worm on its last days he is attempting to wiggle.

In reply to Courtesy

i see that. unless he trying to suggest that you altered them

In reply to sudden

Well i think it would be pellucidly clear that being in agreement on one cause, does not mean that we would be in agreement on all the solutions relating to that cause, or being in agreement on an all causes.

So that leads me to beleive its not the cause that you lumping together based on

Compare this LIE edited by the LIAR:

To what I actually typed:



At no time did I slur Gibson based on his nationality, race, religion, ethnicity or other despite what this herd of shameless inbred Disingenuous Dinosaurswill claim despite their Big Lie being exposed!

SHAMELESS --EXTINCTION BECKONS!!!!!

In reply to sudden

Part of the ploy to confront his critics who were taken aback by his anger when a poster mentioned "Jamaican Dave".

A man getting vex for a poster making reference to "Jamaican Dave" when he has denigrated coach Gibson repeatedly.

In reply to jacksprat

This is another of the "Bajan coach uglyman" posts and the likes. There are numerous other references to coach uglyman in your dossier as well.

New release...isn't it?

In reply to DIEHARD

haha. my apologies if i have mislumped you as it so appears. i dont apologise too often so accept it.

next time be careful lying down with quacks

In reply to sudden

Change the calypso references to cricket ones and de tune says it all

Too much quacks

In reply to Maispwi

one of the greatest songs by one one of the greatest calypsonians. that album was one of the best. tune reminds me of these upstart cricketers and some posters. that is why i referenced it earlier

listening right now.

another is sea water and sand

In reply to sudden

Shaggy - 'It wasn't me...'

Colin Ferguson - 'It wasn't me...'

Jockitch - 'It wasn't me...'

hmmmmm - seems like there is some commonality at play here...

In reply to Larr Pullo

That's why Commie reacted with this post:

This is like the OJ Simpson trial when Mark Furhman said he never used the n word in his entire life. Then we heard the tapes.

There was even a post where someone argued that there are more Jamaicans uglier than Bajan coach Gibson and the Jamaican coach was used as a mold for gargoyles.

Please ignore the last part "mold for gargoyles"

In reply to Courtesy... however, can you prove he said Bajan blah blah blah as he is not denying the blah blah blah, just the bajan part. Well that's what I am gathering.

I am hoping you can keep your emotions in check, once you see a Yaadie responding to your post, and respond appropriately.


Anyways it does seem that the best era of WICB was under the Ugly crew.

In reply to natty_forever

Where have you been in Timbuktu or Chesterfield, Jamaica?

In reply to Courtesy... yes, and just returned ... so did he state specifically "bajan ugly blah" or "coach ugly man"?

In reply to natty_forever

Check this thread and many others before it. There is a propensity here for Jamaican King uglymen to call others ugly.

You had to be creative
Talented and aggressive
To jump on de cricket stage
To perform together
With elegance and a touch of humor
Was an art in which great men engage
Cause it called for men who could marry
Meaningful attack and still bat defensively
Now men who doh have dat skill
Jumping on de boat at will
And calling demselves cricketers still


Too much quacks and invalid
De cricket boat overcrowded
Once in every three years or so
Dey coming up wid a big performance solo
If dis ting continue so
Cricket go be in limbo tomorrow
Since Gayle get way wid he leadfoot
All men feel dey could follow suit

In reply to Courtesy...not deny that ... just see where he is alluding to not saying "bajan" ... hence

In reply to natty_forever

Check the archives to the thread that I have linked HERE .

It gives the lie to the in-bred LIAR's assertion.

It couldn't alter that!

In reply to jacksprat

You are now becoming delusional...my heartfelt sympathy.

In reply to jacksprat

so you never posted the words " Bajan Coach Uglyman or Coach Bajan Uglyman or Coach Uglyman Bajan"?

In reply to jacksprat... a trying to see if he will acknowledge that ... but as usually gone off on a crooked crusade.

In reply to sudden

...or "St. Lucian Double ugly"?

In reply to natty_forever

I know. He usually goes off on a tangent when his LIE is exposed

[b]In reply to natty_forever[/

In reply to jacksprat

According to Courtesy

Do you deny this too?

In reply to Courtesy

You misrepresenting de man. He used a small b in bajan so technically he didn say Coach Uglyman Bajan.

Now ah tink a man get run off de board and vilified or writing jamaican and not Jamaican

In reply to jacksprat

come out and play. are these your words or not

The genesis of all this...ridiculous to say the least.

In reply to Maispwi

you must be right. cos the man still saying he never uttered those words. frankly i cant understand it. Maybe Natty could assist

In reply to Maispwi

Yes a man also got vilified here for saying "Jamaican Dave".

In reply to sudden

why are you so worried each time someone raise the go it alone issue, think of the enormous benefits for BIM, England would spend a whole month in Bim instead of 2 weeks!

In reply to camos

will answer you this once. all i am hearing is talk, talk. if you really want to go it alone, just do it, stop talking. de long talk just means you dont want to or you hope that others will so to give you cover. all the go it alone talk coming from Ja and TT

In reply to sudden... caan help, a trying to figure out who a lie.

In reply to natty_forever

hahaha. by your words shall you be condemned

In reply to sudden... wanting to go alone and being in a position to make it happen seems to be the issue. Those who want to are not in a position at this time to effect a change.
A working to change that.




p.s. you know a siding with the Yaadie still.

In reply to natty_forever

good luck. how long you think it going take?

i understand the yaadie ting

The WICB is a reflection of West Indian society since independence which represents serious disconnect and failure since that time. West Indians dont have a vision for the region or for their cricket.

Ask any one country in this region what have they accomplished since independence , nothing. Caricom is a big hollywood gimmick and show and the politics in the region is an embarrassment.

Caribbean people is all talk and no action, If this was italian football or English football, there would be rioting in the streets and the goons at the WICB would have been physically dragged from their thrones and beaten.

All caribbean people know to do is sit and complain. Do something!

In reply to terminator

How many years are going back when this should have happened? I hope you nat talking about the current administrators only!

In reply to natty_forever

I was going to tell you to stay away from that one.

Too late.

Jacksprat thought he was in the clear when Courtesy dragged back up the archives where he left off Bajan. But as sudden quoted he did call Gibson coach uglyman bajan. He also called Hunte a St Lucian uglyman.

The problem is he seems to be acknowledging he called Hunte a St Lucian uglyman but is then denying he did not tie nationality into the Bajan coach uglyman. No matter how you spin it he looks like a skunt.

Edit: Sorry St Lucian double ugly before I get cussed for being incorrect.

In reply to natty_forever

It should not be too difficult to figure. Check the post at 2015-03-31 10:49:21 Here-from the mouth of the lying, inbred Dinosaur

Its contention all along was that I used "Bajan" in insulting Gibson-never happened!

See if its the same thing-as the Liar misrepresented, by altering it, in what he shamelessly posted. Talk about being dishonest




All its other subsequent lies-cheered on by the the other members of the herd of inbred Dinosaurs flow from that first Big Lie

The Author of this article , before writing needed to do some research on
the History of how Our Players & Team ;
seized the opportunity to be the best
Players & Team in the the Cricket World
for a very long time .

It is true , that currently there are some people who are on the :

" GO IT ALONE BAND WAGON "

Which from every conceivable perspective cannot work , but I wish
all who want to leave Good Luck , because inmy opinion leaving

In reply to nick2020

man in deep deep denial. he holding out that he did not write that but he wrote coach uglyman. wuhloss muh belly

In reply to WestDem

Am talking about former administrators , current ones and former players.

In reply to sudden ... 3yrs.

In reply to nick2020

I wonder why he is not calling the Jamaican cricket coach "coach uglyman" or "Jamaican coach uglyman" too?

Could it be because of nationality?

The Jamaican coach qualifies for the title even more than coach Gibson.

In fact, to draw the distinction I will say: "coach uglyman Jamaican" or "Jamaican coach uglyman".

In reply to sudden

Jacksprat's wife accused him of cheating with the admin assistant at work. She says to jacksprat how could you have unprotected sex with someone you work with? Jacksprat says "You are wrong! Here is the condom!"

It is a strange defense.

In reply to nick2020

muh belly

By Jockitch's logic let me attack the ska...Jamaica ska.

Jockitch says writing "Jamaican Dave" is sacrilegious.

In reply to nick2020

Yuh wicked

In reply to nick2020

WAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

It is always interesting when People
Bray without delving into the History
not only of West Indies Cricket , but
also how WE got to where WE currently are .

I would readily admit that there some
Troglodytes in this Forum who agree with the Author's premise ; but first
I will address the first paragraph
First paragraph that I have written here .

When Our Players & Team ruled World
Cricket , it is true that there were
Regional Tournaments however when not
playing Regional Cricket , they were
employed playing Cricket in England
& other Countries .

More important than this however was the Schedule of International Cricket in those days . EG , when any Team Toured a Country , They played matches before & between the Test Matches. This was a very important factor , because it allowed Players a to get acclimatized to the Weather ,
the Pitches and most of all were in supreme form in all facets of the game .

In England eg they played more than half the English Counties . The Tours were much longer than they currently are . ALL these matches substituted for the fact that in this Region , there was not a Pro or Semi Pro League .

Playing Cricket nearly every day made their skills in all facets of the game sharply honed . As I have stated often in this Forum ; when England
decided to limit the number of Overseas Players playing in England ; that began the slow but sure decline of Cricket in the Region .

Many of Our Players status were automatically reduced to being Part time Cricketers ; due to the fact that in the mid 1980's there was neither a Pro or Semi Pro League in the Region .

There really was no impediment that prevented the WICBC at that juncture to start a Pro or Semi Pro League , with the Financial assistance of Sponsors . Remember , this was at a time when Our Players were the very best in the World . The WICBC , because it has always lacked Foresight & Vision did not do a blasted thing , until 3 years ago when it started a Regional professional League .

The fact that the WICBC is Incompetent is very well known throughout International Cricket & the Region . Its members refuse to have proper Pitches in the Region ; Properly prepare Players in the Region & Internationally .

What is needed is strong financial Support to fix the Infrastructure of
of Cricket in the Region , but not this Lot . They prefer to spend most of their time Plotting & Planning how to remain in the governance of Cricket in the Region .

They also do not intend changing the current Structure , because they have commissioned several Reports , and ignored the salient features of these Reports .

Look at New Zealand , some years ago it saw that its Players were losing Ground in the International Cricket Arena , and they fixed the problems they were having , and its Team is once again performing well .

Sadly that aint on the Agenda of the
WICBC , it prefers to maintain power at all cost , never mind the fact that in the longer versions of the game Our Players & Team are Bottom Dwellers .

This is precisely why the Regional Governments must stand Firm , and do not give an inch . If they do not want to leave , take them to Court , also the ICC , that bluntly refuses to tell the WICBC that it is an embarrassment to itself & the ICC .

The fact is that the WICBC has had more than enough time to do what needs to be done , and has failed to do much , regarding the Infrastructure of Cricket in the Region , and making our Players fully
competitive in the Region & the International Cricket Arena .

The Regional Governments need to Stand firm , and ignore all entreaties presented by the WICBC .
The Regional Governments must take into consideration , all the help that they gave to the WICBC , in hosting the 2007 Cricket World Cup .

The Regional Governments must remember that they politely asked the WICBC to implement the changes recommended by the Patterson Report ,
and the fact that they were not only snubbed by the WICBC , the latter then commissioned the Wilkin Report ;
which it then swiftly rejected .

You are not dealing with Serious persons , who are genuinely interested in the betterment of Cricket in the Region .

They are only interested in being in the governance of Cricket in the Region ; and ensuring that the current structure never ever changes .

Yeah right...lewWI go it alone n each territorial team will forever be bottom dwellers, laughing stock, be competitive at t20s, somewhat competitive at ODIs, etc. Lets see, each territorial team will be in a particular grouping n when not vs each other, then competing vs Namibia, Kenya, Holland, Uganda, Nigeria, Nepal, etc. Get it?! Wait a minute! Those are a lot of cuntries! A territorial team might win a `world` championship!

In reply to POINT
You speak as thought the WICB is some alien entity, it is made up of West Indian people they failures are our failures, we are the one who failed cricket, everyone has the answer to challenges but no president no board has been able to turn around anything, the players must also be accountable, bad broad or not you still have to bat bowl and field

our failure to professionalise our sport is what cost us, our failure to change with the times has cost us, our cricket was stuck in the 70s and 80s for a long time and we are desperately trying to cling to it

we have failed cricket

In reply to hawk

Allow me to state who precisely have failed Cricket in this Region .

The Sacred Scribes who have failed to be very critical of the WICBC .

Those who are in the all levels in the governance of Cricket in the Region .
They knew that the Structure was archaic , and outdated ; yet they
persisted , in keeping it , despite commissioning several Reports which they rejected . Why did they do that?

They knew about the unpreparedness of
Players in the Region ; they did nothing ; they knew that some Boards were doing Stupid things , they did nothing take the worst of the worst , the Windward Islands Cricket Board
that relishes cramming 4 innings into 2 days in the Windward Islands Tournament . Cricket in the Windward Islands has seriously Regressed . I recall days when the Windward Islands Tournament was played over 4 days .
The players in the Windward Islands
are being shortchanged , and the governments of the Windward Islands said nothing , neither to my knowledge did any of the Sports Writers in the Windward Islands . WE
are supposed to Progress not Regress .
Several Reports were commissioned , received and swiftly discarded . Look
I joined this Forum over a decade ago , and I have been critical of those in the governance of Cricket in the Region . So don't go there you joined this Forum about 4 years after I joined . I have not failed anyone , I have consistently pointed out the failures of those in the governance of Cricket in the Region . I have also offered solutions on many occasions .

In reply to POINT

the people that did all that my friend.......... ARE US....(generalizing)West Indians, they were always there from before the 60s we need solutions going forward now bemoaning what should have been or could have been, how do we fixed it and don't say a new board because the same people will make up the new entity and by same i am speaking to nature

i believe it can be fixed and it begins with shelving the notion of going it alone i have read some of your solutions and many have been consistent with mine

In reply to sudden

Finally yuh come along

The Chief architect of the DWL is practising divide and rule. A tactic employed by the Brits to keep us apart.

Prior to HnH getting involved in running the show, they had no grung ,no cricketers of international standard and not one degge flush toilet!!

Jamaicans and Bajans historically, have worked well, for the good of west Indies cricket. Sobers made his 365 in the yard ,Collie Smith was his best friend , several Bajans including Worrell have captained the Jamaica cricket Team

The best over in test cricket was Bowled by a Jamaican, inspired by a Bajan Crowd....Michael Holding to Boycott at the Kensington Oval
Indeed arguably one of the finest test innings by a west indian batsman was Jamaican Lawrence Rowe's triple, versus England in front of an adoring Bajan Crowd at the Oval

Jamaica has always opened its doors to players from other regional teams, Logie and Kanhai ,from Trinidad and Guyana respectively,have been appointed coaches with ne'er a word or murmur of protest

We have a joint history of cooperation and great success in building the brand of west indies cricket......they have none full stop!!!

Now every day is war......... look at who is stoking the fire .......... gentlemen of the jury I rest my case

In reply to hawk

The fact is that our Players dominated Cricket because despite not having a Regional Pro or Semi Pro League , and
no Camps in the Region . they were employed elsewhere , mainly in England . where their skills in all facets of the game were honed to perfection .

I have been at pains to state in this Forum that when the International Scheduled was changed , that in my opinion affected our Players negatively more so than other Players
from Countries that had Leagues .

Cozier ; Becca et al write a lot about Cricket , but I have never heard or read that any of them mentioned this .

I have always stated the fact that Touring Teams played a lot of matches before & between the International matches in those days , which served to sharpen not only their Skills but allowed Teams to get acclimatized to the weather and conditions of the Pitches .

All this went out the window with the
advent of a new schedule to accommodate first ODI matches & later
Twenty / 20 Matches . This Schedule is unhelpful especially to our Part time Players .

I am fully aware that some will bring up the IPL , but in my opinion the very best preparation to do well in Cricket in my opinion , is learning to play the longer format of the game
properly , in each & every facet of the game .

I firmly believe that doing this will make the shorter versions of the game
easier to adapt to when they have to be played . This is why I am very critical of the Windward Islands Cricket Board , for its asinine idea of cramming 4 innings into 2 days . I know for a fact that when I lived in SVG , all Windward Islands matches were 4 days matches . Obviously since they are mandated currently , to this
Stupidity , in my opinion Cricket in the Windward Islands has Regressed rather than Progressed .

I would like ANYONE to illustrate to me how playing 2 days matches is helpful when you are playing Regional matches which are 4 days matches .
I find it astounding that there are people in the Windward Islands who stoutly defend the asinine idea of the 2 days Stupidity .

I would like anyone to show me how that is going to make the Windward Islands Team Regional Champions . when& if that ever happens in the Regional 4 days matches it will be a
miracle .

In reply to nick2020

I don't know what will be the future of West Indies in Test Cricket.

A big reality check will come after 2019, when the new FTP is decided.

My view is:

Each Nation must go and play T20 and ODI cricket alone. Thats a sustainable long term arrangement.

All Domestic Tournaments continue as they are played today, including CPL. (under umbrella WICB)

WICB -- receives funds from all member nations for conducting these tournaments.

As for Test Cricket. I won't mind, if WI team is disbanded.

Each Nation, should work towards achieving Test Nation Status on their own.

It will take some time--- 4 or 5 years, but it will happen, without a doubt.

--

Also (in my view):

ICC needs to come up with a Tier system (7 in each tier)

Tier-I: Aus, Eng, Ind, SA, NZ, Pak, SL

Tier-II: BL, Zim, Ire, Bar, TT, Jam, Guy

Tier-III: Afg, Sco, UAE, Ken, Nep, HK, Can

Tier-IV: LWI, WWI, Nam, Ned, Chi, US, etc

This will give the GAME a much needed competitive edge

In reply to thefacts Outstanding! U are deeper than the match man!

In reply to ponderiver

Notwithstanding all that long talk, do you believe that Courtesy altered those posts?

In reply to POINT

Everything you said there is accurate, here in Barbados I can recall the BCA trying our first division games over 2 days, it was quickly scrapped. I have also lamented that we should have set up a pro league since the 80s, we have it now just two years old and we need someone to come in and tell us this, what is needed now is for all territories to set up semi pro leagues. I have advocated the introduction of franchise based cricket and eliminate national teams and colours, free and open movement of players killing insularity and having the best players playing at all times, we are finally now seeing this. I have even considered goodwill territorial tours we needed to play a lot more FC cricket, probably still do since it is hard to develop on 5 and 10 matches a year when all others play close to 20

In reply to thefacts

you thinking quick highly my friend, I am not convince any of our teams can beat AFG, Sco, or UAE, so based on your proposal they will all be in tier III as for getting test status you must be joking, if the ICC is so reluctant to grant IRELAND such an accolade who in my opinion should be a test playing nation, you think they will give it to any of these territories......seriously, even if they do....who will tour and at what cost friend, such tiny populations and solitary test standard grounds (to develop others is costly and the usage just isn't there, I can see white elephants all over the place) and lastly you are keeping the WWI and LWI together do you think they would want this, they will want to go it alone also

the disbandment of the west Indies will spell doom for all these islands

In reply to thefacts

You must be facting joking.

No individual country in the WI will ever be granted test stauts on their own...ever.

Are u serious?

If u plan to never see Test cricket this side of the world again then fine, go it alone.

In reply to nick2020
There is no solution to WICB other than independent countries having the courage to step out and go alone.... Waiting on corrective action by WICB is futile....ref the past 20 years

In reply to nick2020

... are we now?

In reply to BeatDball

... exactly as it is now ... no?

In reply to natty_forever

Never mind bottom dweller..why would we get Test status when Ireland has been trying for a decade to do so, they probably will just get the slot left vacant by WI.

None of the individual countries would EVER get Test status, that would be the end of Test cricket in this part of the world, forever, unless the USA gets test status

In reply to DIEHARD

Finally, someone who is thinking, well done my friend, if West Indies ever break up say goodbye to regular worthwhile cricket FOREVER

In reply to sudden

Anyone who would go to such lengths ie archiving data from a message board has to be how shall I say it ...flush with questionable motives.
Therefore said person would be inclined to be quite economical with the truth

In reply to hawk

Why?

Articulate

In reply to hawk

And there it is. 3 little words.....on the doorstep

You realize that it's the (by definition) irregular, unworthy cricket...that largely subsidizing and helping to keep your "regular worthwhile cricket" with some sort of relevance eh

In reply to ponderiver

I see no reason to believe what Courtesy posted wasn't a true representation of what Jockstrap posted in the past. Courtesy has archived a lot of posts and no poster has ever questioned the archivist. Except now.


I believe Jockstrap, pious as he makes himself out to be, could not bring himself to accept that this is what he wrote. And there is no doubt in my mind that Jockstrap wrote, post and at the time meant what he said

In reply to natty_forever

Look, my issue is proponents of go it alone are being disingenuous. Team Jamaican is worse than Team West Indies and that is a fact.

So this is not about improvements or progress.

No one was crying for go it alone in the 70s and 80s.
The cries for go it alone are getting louder and louder with each embarrassing loss.

Team Jamaica will take even worse losses. So will you be happier losing as team Jamaica?

In reply to nick2020

I don't think it's a matter of happiness. More a question of "perceived control". Control over selection, less perceived bias, removes inter territory insularity (likely replaced by regional bias e.g. players from kingston receive better perceived treatment than players from may pen) and general independence.

So if the question is "will you be more comfortable losing as team Jamaica?"...the answer could well be yes.

In reply to hawk

... a hope you know this is not a statement of the future, but what is taking place now ... hence

In reply to nick2020

This might not actually happen since the administrators of the respective regional boards have done a lot and sacrificed to be entitled for all the benefits they would get through the WI set up.

The noise is more from the detractors who have national agenda or just cricket fans who just do not see enough is being done at Wi level.

But don't you think this is just like your statement " after all wi is losing with the starts why not touth". Nationalists are asking " any way wi would lose and why not under our flag. Atleast that would give more freedom and control over their destiny"

This can be stopped only if WI cricket moves forward but every other series are we are only moving backwards. So this call will get louder and louder until WICB starts moving direction or at some point when the noise starts too loud for someone in power to act.

In reply to imusic

I hope you don't think i mean T20 in that i am calling it irregular and unworthy cricket, far from it. when I speak of regular, worthwhile cricket, i speak to playing Test teams. Having to play the likes Hong Kong and Nepal would be a huge step backwards, and invariably this is what will happen, not one of these islands will be granted Test status which means no Aus, Eng, India etc teams that will have Television appeal and thus TV rights $$$$,

In reply to natty_forever

I know very well my friend
Many of the Investments made for CWC2007 (Stadia) are hardly used, even the much vaunted Mecca AKA Kensingston Oval and this is with regular test team visits howbeit without them ......

In reply to imusic

This seems to then have no correlation between the fact that after each embarrassing loss the cries get louder prefaced with the fact that there were no cries for independence back in the 70s. But yet here we are.

In reply to Pacy

Applicable:
Nationalists
under our flag

Not Applicable:
more freedom and control over their destiny

Because there will always be insularity and favoritism. Just look at the local boards. It is funny because this is Animal Farm here. You replacing the humans (WICB) for the pigs (Local Board) only to not see the XI you feel should be out there. Happens at club level. Happens at regional level.

When the going gets tough is time to go back home. That is what it is.

In reply to nick2020

why Bajans go ballistic each time some one raise the possibility of a team leaving the union? bro if countries can be viable economic entities ,what makes you think they won't find their place in the cricket world?

In reply to camos

St Lucian, Guyanese, Bajan.

Make up wunna mind.

In reply to hawk

Not sure if Test cricket is the end game anymore.

Some teams may be quite happy to play LO cricket and focus their resources in that form of the game

And while playing Nepal and Hong Kong is undoubtedly a huge step backwrds, there may be some that believe...2 steps backwards in order to truly move forward might be more palatable than what currently exists.

In reply to nick2020

A successful WI team would undoubtedly silence such outcries.

Much like a viable Blackberry smart phone would prevent it's stock price from plummeting.

In reply to imusiclots of West Indians are shut out of the big team tours so they wont be missing much,when was the last time England played in Guyana?

All the long talk, my question remains, why don't Ja and TT pull out of the WICB umbrella and go boldly into the cricketing world? Seems easy enough. Why try to convince others? The others are saying if that is what you want, go for it. Nobody is preventing either from forging their own path in this big wide cricket world. No more worries about team selection etc. please please please go. You have convinced us is is the right thing for you to do

In reply to imusic

Human nature is not a science and it really difficult to understand. This is my poor attempt at logic:

You agree then that there were (no) cries for go it alone when the West Indies were dominant in 70s.
Now as the team looks inept there are (constant) cries for go it alone.

Insularity as always exists. Bajans threatening to withdraw because an average Bajan ain't on de side. The board according to many were just an inept.

How is this not about winning?

And if it is about winning how does splitting up help any of the individual territories achieve that goal of winning?

To me it is a stupid idea if we are here because we are losing. I want to win end of story. Guyana/St Lucia/Barbados vs India gives me zero chance of cheering for a winning team. It is that simple.

In reply to sudden

Your encouragement to be independent is warmly welcomed, but impossible given tje little me WICB boards running local cricket inTT and Ja. Given yard's athletic strides on the world stage, they should have little fear .....but, nothing short of a kerry packer or stanford type cricket revolution in the caribbean will knock the wicb mammoth over

In reply to nick2020

Listen, that is why this argument, this go it alone issue, is persisting. If TT and Ja want to go it alone, who are you to say yeah or nay. It is their decision. Either way let them make it on their own.

The world will continue you know. That too shall pass

In reply to johndom90

Easy, just leave. Just pull out. Or Serve notice on the WICB and ICC that Ja and TT no longer want to be part of West Indies cricket. If they want, I will do it pro bono.

In reply to nick2020

You guys say WICB is a business, when businesses fail , you sell or discontinue.

In reply to sudden

You know the financial aspect of this is the most laughable part. Jamaica couldn't even field lights

In reply to camos

I think I have exhausted my point.

Don't pretend this is about winning and losing because it is much more than that. This is why CSME/Federation/Union will never work. Because we are stupid. No other way to say it.

In reply to imusic

The average youth eh interested in Test cricket..
That is daddy 'dream for them. Now its about maximising returns from effort before expiry date. T20 cricket came along to administer final rites.....who eh like it thats they business but its the truth.

In reply to nick2020

Yep...time to either pullout or shut up. That easy.

In reply to johndom90

Well guh long nuh. Please man

In reply to sudden

Elaborate....show me the path to leave?

Is it via the local wicb affiliated ttcb?

We know that none of the Boards doing jack shyte to leave the current banditry

In reply to sudden

Painful to see go it alone.

In reply to johndom90

bro test ciricket is a money maker in the big three other places go along as an accommodation.

In reply to johndom90

So which board will run your go it alone teams?

[b]In reply to nick2020[

Im glad u point out the incestous relationship between local boards and theWICB.....one nasty quagmire the whole set up. Hence why i ask for the yellow brick road.....it ent passing through the local boards.

In reply to johndom90

How much more do you want me to spell out? Are you that thick?

1. Pullout
2. Don't send members to the WICB
3. Don't play in any WICB tournaments
4. Serve notice on the WICB that you want to withdraw
5. Serve notice on ICC that you want to withdraw from WICB
6. Petition TTCB
7. Petition Rowley
8. Petition Kamala
9. Take it to the CCJ
10. Take it to the Privy Council

In reply to johndom90

the current setup is very profitable for current board members so don't expect them to initiate any changes.

In reply to nick2020

Winning papers over the cracks that areand have always been present underneath.

The foundation is weak. When the foundation is weak.....it doesn't take much for the structure to fail


WI cricket was founded on a desire to be on an international stage...to showcase a shared athletic prowess against colonial masters. Everything about the environment was colonial. Politics, society, currency, etc

That common "goal" was enough to override the differences between us. Those differences were minor compared to the major battle that was being waged.

As colonialism waned.....in reality...if not psychologically.....the "common goal" was still important....but less so. Differences came to the fore....yet we were still competitive. We were still producing great players.

We reach our zenith in the late 70's early 80's. We are undoubtedly the best in the world. The differences still remain....but the winning makes it not just less palatable....but seemingly non existent.

Fast forward to the 1990's onwards. The team is less competitive. "WE" are fully in charge....and yet paradoxically....less so. We think...all teams go through a period of adjustment and we're just going through ours. Sooner or later it will get better and we'll improve. Besides...we're still producing Lara's, Chanderpaul's, Gayle's.

T20 and IPL comes to the fore and it presents players with an avenue to enhance their natural skills. We hit it longer, harder, faster than anyone. We're explosive in the field. That's what always set West Indies cricketers apart from the rest. Here comes this form of the game that's "tailor made" for our best players....AND it's also the most lucrative form of the game.

Ironically, our administration are more colonial in thought and action than even the colonists. Increasingly it becomes us vs them. Player versus Board. The losing continues and we get less competitive.

The differences remain. EXCEPT. There's no winning to paper over the cracks that have always been present.

So is it about winning? Sure.

But winning is just plaster for the sore. A sore that never really got treated...far less had any hope of healing.

In reply to camos

There are only two territories at the moment clamoring to leave. I don't think that would be an issue.

In reply to imusic

To solve all that just leave. Pull out. Go it alone.

In reply to sudden

Petition TTCB?????? For real?

In reply to johndom90

If that is your local board, yes, why not. You can even sue them if they don't pull out of the WICB. Bring a private law suit on the grounds of public interest- that the TTCB is not representing the TT public interest by remaining in the WICB

In reply to sudden

And deprive everyone the delight of your angst in full flow? Too good...

In reply to imusic

Or your anguish masquerading as sarcasm- too precious

In reply to imusic

I understand. But let us keep going.

So TnT breaks away.

Do you get back to the winning we as a region experienced?

In reply to nick2020

LOOKS LIKE U LOVE GOING IN CIRCLES

In reply to imusic

test Cricket is still the apex, a true test of the mettle of a player, his concentration and technique suffers greater scrutiny than the LO variety , achieving test status is still the aspiration of many teams and doing well at is a must as it guarantees teams spots in all formats of world tourneys, the fickle nature of T20 and a lesser extent ODI where the team of the day still wins(T20) one can easily be beaten by a team of lesser abilities, I would not pin my hopes on such a format even though it is vital format to overall global expansion of the game. A truly great team will always be a TEST team

our best bet is to stick together and and rebuild our cricket from the bottom up sacrifices will need to be made by both player and administrator alike some may need to return others will have to go

In reply to hawk

Logically yes.

But how do you address, far less treat the underlying distrust between territories that's at the root of the issue?

No amount of "logic" is likely to being forth a competitive, sustainable team without first dealing with that root issue....in my opinion

And while my heart agrees with you on the test cricket apex thing.....not so sure if that is sustainable without significant (not radical mind you) changes in that form of the game.

That said....a first major step was taken earlier this month with the first official ICC day night test at Adelaide Oval. Of course day/night tests were a regular feature of Packer cricket way back in the 70's.

That provides some indication of the glacial pace of change to this very traditional form of the game.

In reply to imusic

this is a kicker, this trust needs to be earned, we need to keep everything above board and open, and stop trying to "upper hand" each other, but in all honesty, it will be hard to eliminate the distrust, maybe the next generation will succeed where we have failed

I was elated at the day/night test, made me recall the WICB experimenting with Day/Night first class games a few seasons ago..., this is where Test cricket will go, not to worry... it will gain traction

In reply to imusic

Not really. But I like to see where the story takes us.

I did not agree with one of your supporting statements

There will always be differences. Please believe the TnT International team going to be too ______ for some people. Too Indian, too Black, too from one region. We are petty like that. And you will lose. Repeatedly. So....

1970s - Winning but underlying issues
1990s until today - Losing and underlying issues
201X - Go it alone, losing, but no issues?

One thing is a fact in sports - losing repeatedly brings issues.

Anyway we all know how we got here. Cuz we losing.

In reply to imusic

I challenge this point.

In reply to hawk

And it goes deeper eh.

On one level is inter territorial distrust

Then there's distrust at the local board level

Then distrust between regions locally

But the first is the hardest to get by

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com
Yes it is time! The current day West Indies Team is the poorest excuse for an International team/entity - Period. They are petty childish boys hoisted up to a stage on the shoulders of heroes they do not know or care to know. They are the pompous and privilege beneficiaries of a storied West Indian legacy - Great talents who revolutionized the game, and cemented a place for future teams – but not this! The game has changed, and we will see more of the same – conflict and mediocrity on and off the field. The region has to evolve…. WICB as a unit is useless, & grossly incompetent – current product & abysmal trend is exhibit #1. Solution? Individual countries (Guy, Jam, T&T, Barbados, Combined Islands(W/L)) have to take the lead and find the courage to be independent – develop their respective teams, seek and get private investors – be creative, innovative; in a word - LEADERSHIP; join the Zimms, Ireland, Bangla, USA, Canada and other junior nations to create a new structure & Compete! They will ultimately catch the Big guns…but they have to start by LEADing, because that is where the opportunity lies… Until then, it is a hope & a prayer for divine intervention to get Windies and WICB to be smart, intelligent and apply common sense to develop a marketable product. We need a maverick nation to take the lead or we live with more of the same for eternity…

In reply to Jimmy

Simple and candid.

In reply to Jimmy

As stupid as the later part of that sounds it is.

As for the maverick bit, get your country to do it

In reply to sudden

It takes vision and a Bold nation/government to make the move; it takes LEADERSHIP; it is clearly spelled out for the Kindergarten Caribbean Govt’s to take action now or suffer the ignominious consequences of being kicked out of the Intl arena. But history tells us that no one has the balls to do it; the respective administrations prefer to be mired in the self-preservation of their power; therefore nothing will be done, and we “the people” will continue to lament the fall of the Wondrous Windies until the they are literally kicked out; that is when the Blind will see…and wonder why something was not done earlier…. Change is hard, but necessary; West Indies Cricket is on the brink of extinction from the World scene, and there is no hope….

In reply to Jimmy

Preach it, brother....

sudden can't get the logic of the argument. Any time someone shows him the logic, he behaves as if we run the cricket boards in our own countries.

In reply to mikesiva

Sudden have one sound bite refrain....leave..


Cricket has become so irrelevant in the psyche of CAribbean peeps...


that it ent a shame no more....