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History of Hindu India

DAVE400 2017-11-14 14:31:08 

Ancient times

First millenium

second millenium

Some really fascinating narrative...

Kind of makes you pause when judging Indian society...a civilization so old, that went to pinnacle, fell, rises again, always been one of the largest populations in the world...

...all that without being belligerent...

It really is fascinating and complex...and fascinating in its complexities...

Khaga 2017-11-14 15:10:04 

Nice proceedings..watching them..

Khaga 2017-11-14 19:03:17 

In reply to DAVE400

You are a facking adding one keyword,you made this thread Cobra proof.

granite 2017-11-15 07:03:55 

Some years ago I got some Encyclopedia and accidently found some interesting reading about India.It was about the Gupta Dynasty,it was a big surprise about a history I wasn' aware of.There was so much reading about the achievements in Arts,Architecture,Sciences,Religion and Philosophy,this was between 320 -535 CE,I think this date refers to the birth of Jesus Christ.I also had a bit of read about the Indus Valley Civilization,hard to believe such a great civilization existed.We keep hearing about the Chinese,the Greeks and Romans,I think these people did just as well with a philosophy that is equal in many aspects.

Devin 2017-11-15 07:11:50 

Black people were the first Indians.

Devin 2017-11-15 07:18:49 

Black people were white before white people were white.

Halliwell 2017-11-15 08:07:00 

In reply to DAVE400

Hopefully the usual suspects don’t show up to rubbish your God and history of religion thread

I’m surprised they haven’t shown up yet to be honest


granite 2017-11-16 16:02:07 

In reply to Halliwell

I thought so myself,I expect to hear something really nasty from a certain poster.

DAVE400 2017-11-16 16:08:04 

Come nah man...the words India and Hindu create too many knee jerk reactions on this Board...

Truth be told, I was hoping to engage Gvenky and khaga on a historical discussion, sans enmity...

I do feel some primal pride in reading the article..doesn't mean I don't appreciate the richness of other cultures...just starting with "my" own first.

googley 2017-11-16 16:30:23 

In reply to Devin

so all humans came from black people?

sgtdjones 2017-11-16 21:00:35 

In reply to DAVE400

Have the Hindu's kept the culture pristine since leaving India or are there some deviation?

In our Village, a Moslem man and a Sikh were more Hindu that some of the Maharaj names.They would have 7 day prayers under large bamboo tents and religious individuals would come from all over Trinidad for such.
The whole village would contribute to such events.

sgtdjones 2017-11-16 21:01:19 

Greek and Indian Mythology

Some inhabitants of Greece were referred to as Indo Greek.

If we were to look at Goddess Durga, Artemis and Apollo
one would see some similarities.

Artemis and Durga

Artemis twin sister of Apollo, she is referred to as the goddess of the hunt and wild animals, childbirth, young girls and women. She carried a bow and arrow.

Artemis was the daughter of Zeus and Leto, she was worshipped through Greece.She was in love with Orion.Apollo became jealous of Orion, saw him swimming in the distance and bet Artemis that she couldn't hit the floating object on the horizon.
She took the wager and shot hitting the object, in grief she shot him into the sky making him a constellation in the sky.

Artemis appeared in a number of myths. In the myth of Actaeon, he was a hunting companion of Artemis; at some point, he saw the goddess naked bathing in a spring and tried to rape her.

As punishment, Artemis transformed him into a stag and his hounds killed him.

In the myth of Orion which has various versions, Orion was also a hunting companion of Artemis and the only person to have won her heart. However, he was accidentally killed by the goddess.

Durga was created as a warrior goddess to fight Mahishasura. the gods asked Brahma for help since Durga
caused disruptions by beating up on the gods of Nature.

Shiva requested all gods to pool their energy together, the energy created the goddess Durga.Being a woman, there was nothing stopping Goddess Durga from killing Mahishasura, as his boon only protected him from men and Gods. Such was the cunning and smartness of Lord Brahma.

Durga, also identified as Adi Parashakti, Devi, Shakti, Bhavani, Parvati, and by numerous other names, is a principal and popular form of Hindu goddess. ... She appears in Indian texts as the wife of god Shiva, as another form of Parvati or mother goddess.

The bow and arrows represent energy. By holding the bow and arrows both in one hand, Durga demonstrates her control over both aspects of energy—potential and kinetic.

sgtdjones 2017-11-16 21:19:21 

Hercules and Shri Krishna

Some similarities

Shri Krishna had one weakness, his heel, so did Achilles
one of the great warriors from Greek Mythology

lets us look at Hercules and Shri Krishna

Hercules born to Alceme, Zeus deceived her into thinking he was her husband.Hera wanted Hercules dead and sent two snakes to kill him.Hercules was found playing with both dead snakes as toys.

Zeus had tricked Hera into feeding Hercules when she discovered who he was, she pulled her breast out of his mouth and the squirt of milk formed the milky way.

Indra, the king of gods deceived Ahalya the same way.
Indra, in Hindu mythology, the king of the gods. He is one of the main gods of the Rigveda and is the Indo-European cousin of the German Wotan, Norse Odin, Greek Zeus, and Roman Jupiter. In early religious texts, Indra plays a variety of roles.

Hercules became a great warrior as one cycle known as the 12 labours state.

Shri Krishna also had adventures such as winning the Mahabharata for Pandavas.

ProWI 2017-11-16 21:39:37 

It’s important to know the real of history of the Black race, and not the more modern revisionist history.

DAVE400 2017-11-17 05:55:48 

In reply to ProWI

Will check out...politely, please start a separate thread...trying my best for this to not descend to a race superiority argument.

DAVE400 2017-11-17 05:59:44 

In reply to sgtdjones

Have the Hindu's kept the culture pristine since leaving India or are there some deviation?

I am not really concerned about the purity of the practice and preservation of rituals.

I am more fascinated by the tolerance of the religion and, by extension, the broader society throughout the Millenia.

Insofar as philosophies of dharma, karma, etc create the environment for tolerance and civility, these philosophies should be studied and respected.

What is also fascinating is not so much the survival of the rituals but the sheer history of these philosophies....handed down through millennia, creating advanced societies peacefully while other cultures advanced via conquest.

The Hindu philosophy is almost the opposite. Nowhere in history are there epics of conquest. Most battles are civil war in nature. The Maha Bharat and Ramayan being the most popular.

sgtdjones 2017-11-17 13:32:06 

In reply to DAVE400

To see what the philosophy is about one must see where it all started.

Greeks and Persians travelers to the Indus valley, spoke of its inhabitants as “Hindu” (Greek: ‘indoi), and, in the 16th century,India began to employ the term to distinguish themselves from the Turks.

Gradually the distinction became primarily religious rather than ethnic, geographic, or cultural.Others have chosen to call the religion sanatana dharma (“eternal law”)

Hinduism can be traced back textually, and debate preserved in epic and Vedic writings from the2nd millennium bce.

Hindus accept more than any other major religious community,celebrate—the organic, multileveled, and sometimes pluralistic nature of their traditions.

Hindu prayer [quote]“May good thoughts come to us from all sides.”
It maintains that truth must be sought in multiple sources, not pertinacious proclaimed.

When Hindus speak of a religious identity as sanatana dharma, they emphasize it's continuous, seemingly eternal (sanatana) existence and a web of customs, obligations, traditions, and ideals (dharma) and not as a religion primarily as a system of beliefs.

Hinduism is not a religion but a way of life.

Hindu religious tradition: doctrine, practice, society, story, and devotion. These five elements, to adopt a typical Hindu metaphor, are strands in an elaborate braid.

If one reads the first of the five strands of Hinduism is doctrine, as expressed in a vast textual tradition anchored to the Veda (“Knowledge”).

The fabric of Hinduism is practice.

The relationship between the divine and the world.

Concerns the disparity between the world-preserving ideal of dharma and that of moksha ( inherently flawed world).

Individual destiny, as shaped by karma (the influence of one’s actions on one’s present and future lives)

Commonalities appear in the worship of icons or images (pratima, murti, or archa).It is called puja (“honouring [the deity]”); if performed in a temple by a priest.

The giving and sharing of food. Such food is called prasada (Hindi, prasad meaning “grace”), reflecting the recognition that when human beings make offerings to deities

Worshipers eat these leftovers, their status as beings inferior to and dependent upon the divine.

Hindu life is an organized society. Early visitors to India from Greece and China and, later, who travelled to India in the early 11th century, were struck by the highly stratified (if locally variant) social structure that has come to be called familiarly the caste system.

Purusha underwent a process of sacrifice that produced a four-part cosmos and its human counterpart, a four-part social order comprising Brahmans (priests), Kshatriyas (warriors and nobles), Vaishyas (commoners), and Shudras (servants).

In one of the early creation myths in the Rigveda, India’s oldest text, purusha is also the primal man from whose body the universe was created. He was both sacrificer and victim, and his rite was the imagined prototype for later Vedic and Hindu sacrifices.

ps The fabric of Hinduism is practice.

will continue ....

sgtdjones 2017-11-17 13:47:06 

In reply to DAVE400

I am not really concerned about the purity of the practice and preservation of rituals.

How can one not be concerned The fabric of Hinduism is practice.

Hinduism is not a religion but a way of life.

Runs 2017-11-17 14:15:52 

My Mughal ancestors also contributed greatly

Khaga 2017-11-17 14:32:09 

In reply to Runs

In later was preceded by bloody battles,forced conversions,violence of epic proportions..brutal!!

Khaga 2017-11-17 14:34:17 

In reply to sgtdjones

Cut the copy,pasting Wiki! Articulate your grievances..Just as the Muslims defend the Quran, the Vedas can be defended.

Runs 2017-11-17 14:37:21 

In reply to Khaga

Did my DNA have traces of that Mughal tree no forced conversion of my ancestors wink

sgtdjones 2017-11-17 15:21:50 

In reply to Khaga

I am trying to show the thread originator what Hinduism is about.

One must practice its way of life.

Ya gats dat.Plus most of the above I learned in school.

cool cool cool

DAVE400 2017-11-17 15:23:43 

In reply to sgtdjones

I don't think of God as a deity.

sgtdjones 2017-11-17 15:23:54 

In reply to Runs

My Mughal ancestors also contributed greatly

I am curious as to how ?

cool cool cool cool

sgtdjones 2017-11-17 15:24:53 

In reply to DAVE400

I don't think of God as a deity.

So you don't believe in puja's?

Are you agnostic?

conman 2017-11-17 15:28:49 

In reply to DAVE400

I don't think of God as a deity.

Then what do you think then?

sgtdjones 2017-11-17 15:45:42 


It is the oldest surviving religion in the world.

After middle eastern countries where converted to Islam , all of Europe converted to Christianity after Constantine.

India despite being ruled 600-800 years by Muslims(Sultans, Moguls, Nawabs, Nizams), and 400 years by Christians(British) and between the uprising of Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism still Hindus are majority in India and third largest religious group in the world.

Runs 2017-11-17 16:46:48 

In reply to sgtdjones

Are you kidding me? rolleyes

DAVE400 2017-11-17 16:57:48 

In reply to conman

That's really up to me innit?

But I do think of God as absolute infinity...everything...non judgmental....meaning of existence...

Difficult to express in words.

GCCBourda 2017-11-17 18:04:21 

In reply to sgtdjones

Watch this BBC film: Treasures of the Indus - the Mughals

Khaga 2017-11-17 19:19:50 

In reply to DAVE400

Vedanta doesn't deal with God as deity. There are some pieces in the Vedas that actually contemplate the existence of God.

From way of life to many Gods to questioning the existence of God,it is beyond the comprehension of many and hence the narrow interpretations that cast aspersions..

Khaga 2017-11-17 19:22:46 

In reply to sgtdjones

Pujas serve as means to connect with cultural identity..a celebration..
Puja as a mean of self realization? no..

sgtdjones 2017-11-17 19:25:27 

In reply to Runs

My Mughal ancestors also contributed greatly

You posted a statement that has various connotations

I am curious what your version is ?

sgtdjones 2017-11-17 19:27:54 

In reply to Khaga

Puja as a mean of self realization? no..

Commonalities appear in the worship of icons or images (pratima, murti, or archa).It is called puja (“honouring [the deity]”); if performed in a temple by a priest.

The above was the explanation I was given by my teacher when studying religion.

sgtdjones 2017-11-17 19:36:52 

In reply to Khaga

Vedanta doesn't deal with God as deity.

The Sanskrit word bhakti comes from the root bhaj, which means "to adore or worship God." Bhakti yoga has been called "love for love's sake" and "union through love and devotion." Bhakti yoga, like any other form of yoga, is a path to self-realization, to having an experience of oneness with everything

In the case as above isn't yoga a tool to reach god?

Khaga 2017-11-17 19:43:28 

In reply to sgtdjones

What is reaching God?

sgtdjones 2017-11-17 19:45:02 

In reply to DAVE400

But I do think of God as absolute infinity...everything...non judgmental....meaning of existence...

so do you mean transfinite

sgtdjones 2017-11-17 19:49:05 

In reply to Khaga

What is reaching God?

I was told that

Yoga encompasses a variety of systems of philosophy-based practices which outline how an individual can unite body, mind, and soul, or his or her actions and thoughts with divinity, in the quest for moksha.

The term yoga is from the Sanskrit language and means union.Doesn't all devotees seek a union with god

sgtdjones 2017-11-17 21:33:25 

In reply to GCCBourda

I saw your documentary but it's not what the topic
relates to the poster who originated the thread speaks
of his belief in his religion.

The history of Hinduism, a way of life.

What did the mungals contribute to the betterment of Hinduism, it is what I am looking for?.

gvenkat 2017-11-18 07:37:47 

In reply to DAVE400

I will give this a read when i find some time. Parents are in town so busy going around Florida. cool

gvenkat 2017-11-18 07:40:19 

In reply to Runs

Your mughal ancestors raped, plundered and looted and forced conversions. Your ancestors gave up and converted. Not blaming them, I'm not sure what I would have done if I were forced.

Unless you are born a muslim in the middle east you ain't a muslim, You are just a convert. cool

Runs 2017-11-18 07:50:18 

In reply to gvenkat

No I am not cool
I have studied Mughal history and my ancestry and have scientific proof. To be honest I was surprised and did formerly believed what you stated.

gvenkat 2017-11-18 08:35:14 

In reply to Runs

Whatever makes you happy. lol

gvenkat 2017-11-18 08:35:14 

In reply to Runs

Whatever makes you happy. lol

Khaga 2017-11-18 08:53:03 

In reply to Runs

This is the history of one of the most famous Sitar Gharanas..Enjoy

Sarojan Singh Ji of this gharana was an invited singer of Mughal darbar in Delhi. His son Turab Khan (previously known as Baddu Singh) and grand-son Sahabdad Khan (previously known as Saheb Singh)were also musicians of great caliber.

Get rid of this notion that somehow your "pure ancestors" came over and helped and contributed!! I have been very respectful and restrained of the amalgamation while discussing such sensitive topics on this MB. While I continue to cherish the Muslim and Mughal influence, I am not oblivious to the bloody history brought upon by the invaders..

Khaga 2017-11-18 08:54:55 

In reply to sgtdjones

Jones, please get rid of the long ass copy and pastes. Puja is a medium. But the mind control and peer pressure keep people stuck in the puja mode forever. Usually Pujas remove the God from our midst and aim for unison with something that is far removed,which gives rise to the concept of heaven and hell (as if they are somewhere else)..

Runs 2017-11-18 09:25:58 

In reply to Khaga

There were good and bad people on both sides wink

sgtdjones 2017-11-18 09:30:31 

In reply to Khaga

I don't know what you folks do in India but in Trinidad
the following customs are followed.

Puja, in Hinduism, ceremonial worship, ranging from brief daily rites in the home to elaborate temple rituals.
puja usually consists of making an offering of flowers or fruit to an image of a god.

In a puja, a deity, manifested in his image, is accorded the honor given to a royal guest.

Arati is another type of puja the waving of lights before the image of a deity.

So cut out ya crap about copy and paste, Please note that I studied religion as a hobby and spent 6 months at Kathmandu University, in Nepal doing research.

You are not gonna come here and BS me ok.

Khaga 2017-11-18 09:33:12 

In reply to sgtdjones

You learnt a lot of symbolism,good for you. How much of it do you practice and while practicing, how much of it do you feel integrated and what is the greater significance of that oneness and how does it issue out in your everyday actions?

sgtdjones 2017-11-18 09:41:21 

In reply to Khaga

What do you mean symbolism?

Hinduism is not a religion its a way of life.

It is not something one practices as in other religions.

A Hindu lives it daily.

My great, grandfather got up each morning and made an offering to the sun of water, flowers and seeds.

He lived the life of a Hindu,followed religious tradition of: doctrine, practice, society, story, and devotion.

He seemed to have found a relationship between the divine and the world.

Isn't such what every devotee wishes?

sgtdjones 2017-11-18 09:47:45 

In reply to Khaga

I visited this city Varanasi

Situated on the banks of the Ganges and is an important pilgrimage center.

Legend says that Lord Shiva light broke through the earth to reach the heavens and is his home.

Mythology has it to experience salvation , one must die here and have their ashes scattered in the Ganges.

I was told Buddha founded Buddhism here around 528 BCE when he gave his first sermon.

The Pandavas, of the Hindu epic Mahabharata, visited the city in search of Shiva to atone for their sins.

Attended a few lectures at Banaras Hindu University also

Khaga 2017-11-18 09:58:44 

In reply to sgtdjones

I notice a lot of crooks living a life of corruption,robbing others,inflicting damage to humanity. Yet they are very "religious" in pujas or namaaz or church..

Unless the puja guides one's way of life as prescribed in the scriptures,it is mere symbolism.

sgtdjones 2017-11-18 10:05:11 

In reply to Khaga

In every segment of society, we find such individuals.

We cannot judge society because of such few.

If one follows the religious tradition of: doctrine, practice, society, story, and devotion, I believe individuals will not have the time to see the demons in others.

Diogenes of Sinope (c. 404-323 BCE) was a Greek Cynic philosopher best known for holding a lantern (or candle) to the faces of the citizens of Athens claiming he was searching for an honest man

Sadly, he never found one.

Khaga 2017-11-18 16:40:16 

Who am I?.. Very few schools of thought/philosophy have probed this topic more extensively than the schools of thought originating in India.

The Upanishads are fascinating in the depth and breadth of the scope their inquiry. They can be studied without the encumbrances of Hindu religious practices. The Hindu way of life has facilitated flourishing of such inquisition and contemplation.

Khaga 2017-11-18 18:49:56 

Runs, lets be clear. Your ancestors didn't come with an intention of contributing to the Upanishadic thought process that already existed. They came to conquer the material prosperity. They raped and pillaged. It was not until Akbar that they settled down. Even then it was an uneasy assimilation facilitated by the meekness/generosity of Indians and forced by the Brits, as the events that led to the partition later showed.