Message Board Archives

HEADLINE: Lloyd: Donít touch Holder 2019-07-10 18:57:29 

Don’t dare think of firing Jason Holder as captain of the West Indies cricket team!

That stern warning has come from the man who appointed him four years ago, Clive Lloyd, the former successful West Indies captain and chairman of selectors, who believes the problem in the regional team doesn’t begin and end with Holder.

In a passionate and emotional interview, Lloyd said it would be “silly” to blame Holder for the West Indies not qualifying for the semi-finals of the World Cup and furthermore for their failings in One-Day Internationals over the last four years.

Read more at NationNews

Full Story

jacksprat 2019-07-10 19:10:12 

"Don't touch Holder as captain" because it would reflect poorly on the great Clive Lloyd who, almost half a decade ago, claimed to have 'seen' something in Holder that would portend great captaincy!

Holder is one of my favourite players, who can easily walk into this team on merit, but the jury is still out on his tactical acumen as a captain.

FuzzyWuzzy 2019-07-10 19:47:00 

Lloyd is just being rational

Fivestar 2019-07-10 19:59:10 

In reply to

What the hell is Clive Lloyd smoking? Of course there has to be a change in captaincy. In my view, it comes down to Hope and Hetmeyer. Hope would be my choice. Hetmeyer makes too many poor decisions and is therefore too immature to be captain at this time.

sgtdjones 2019-07-10 20:02:49 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy


supporting ya homie


Halliwell 2019-07-10 20:03:44 

Lloyd appointed him
Of course he wants to save face

doosra 2019-07-10 20:03:50 



oh yea , come een Larr big grin big grin big grin

even Larr jumped this ship a while back big grin

FuzzyWuzzy 2019-07-10 20:09:53 

In reply to sgtdjones
Lloyd is bajan ent?

StumpCam 2019-07-10 20:13:17 

I believe I now know why Lloyd is in love with Jason Holder.
Lloyd has a son who is similarly built as Holder that never lived up to be the sportsman that Clive was......and guess what, his name is Jason! lol lol

sgtdjones 2019-07-10 20:13:18 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

He grandma from lil hingland?

lol lol

doosra 2019-07-10 20:13:37 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

his parents? big grin
doh count?

Larr Pullo 2019-07-10 20:14:47 

In reply to doosra

Say what? I agree with Lloyd. Why change captains? That wasn’t the main problem during this World Cup.

FuzzyWuzzy 2019-07-10 20:15:18 

In reply to sgtdjones

Wha bout Gibbs and Basil B?

FuzzyWuzzy 2019-07-10 20:18:10 

When nz let aus off and barely escaped we they say he too laid back. They wanted the aggresive Kohli type.

Guess what laid back smiling kane dismissed hyper pouty Kohli.

conman 2019-07-10 20:18:53 

In reply to Larr Pullo

thats what i dont understand with folks, there actually is no proper captain replacement that can cause a fundamental change to team from loosing to winning, i dont think that exist in the modern game for any team

jacksprat 2019-07-10 20:30:38 

In reply to conman

..there actually is no proper captain replacement that can cause a fundamental change to team from loosing to winning

Wasn't that the same rationalization that was being posited to justify the supposedly irreplaceable Darren Sammy weighing down the team as a virtual passenger for 4 years?

At least, to his credit, Jason Holder is actually a real cricketer -one of our best players, to boot-who is able to contribute with both bat and ball.

WICFan 2019-07-10 20:36:56 

Anyone else with that ODI record as a captain and I'm sure Lloyd would be calling for their heads.

hubert 2019-07-10 20:49:02 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

No he is not..He should have said..'Appoint him for life'

big grin big grin big grin big grin big grin big grin big grin big grin

Narper 2019-07-10 20:58:52 

Big PUC-C senile or what?

Name ANY other country playing international cricket would retain a captain after 4 years of losing in ODI cricket.

Try somebody else.

Holder retains his place in the team as a player

dayne 2019-07-10 21:10:37 

If Lloyd does not want Holder to be touched he should wake Holder up, educate him about playing proactive cricket. Lloyd was a very aggressive captain, I am surprised that he is not critiquing about Holder's passive style of captaincy.

rillo 2019-07-12 12:34:06 

In reply to

A captain and coach should be given a good evaluation after such a big tournament like this WC.
While Holder did soso his captaincy was poor.
Coaching was poor.
So why should they be left alone?
Who gave LLOYD THE RIGHT TO SAY A CAPTAIN cannot be changed?
The selectors should be the first one to be fired. They did a piss poor job in not picking a balanced team. They picked too many injured players hoping they came good but instead it backfired on them greatly.
So coaches, selectors and captain must go. Let them understand that performance at the highest level is required not poor results and it is okay.

BC 2019-07-12 13:34:18 

In all respect to Mr Lloyd someone who I will always be grateful I however respectfully disagree.
In the present wi set up your captain should come from among your most capped and consistent players with a business like approach and the winning instinct aka killer top pic therefore is Roach.


LBW375 2019-07-12 13:44:46 

In reply to rillo

Who gave LLOYD THE RIGHT TO SAY A CAPTAIN cannot be changed?

So you have a right to call out Clive Lloyd but he doesn't have a right to express himself ?

Lloyd had a right to his own opinion, and based on his experience and successes, his opinion is more informed than everyone on this mb

Dukes 2019-07-12 14:04:03 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

If yuh claiming Lloyd,Gibbs and Butcher yuh gat fuh tek Larr and Dukes too.

Yuh willing to do that???

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

BC 2019-07-12 14:04:57 

Lloyd was a great captain. Richards was a greater captain with a higher winning percentage.

stroke 2019-07-12 14:21:40 

In reply to LBW375

Well his opinion is flawed, full of past glory which he has fed on for 40 years and will continue to yield poor results. Selectors and Coaches should be fired immediately. Holder should be replaced as the captain for 50 over games. I would retain him as captain for tests. Gayle should be thanked and retired. Look at the teams that have been successful and were in the final four --- they all made significant changes after the last world cup and continue to make changes. Look at Bangladesh and Afghanistan they continue to make changes and improve. I will suggest a squad of 15 players who could be groomed for the future :

S. Hope
J. Holder
S. Hetmyer
N. Pooran
S. Ambris
F. Allen
J. Campbell
R. Cornwall
A. Joseph
S. Cottrell
O. Thomas
C. Brathwaithe
K. Paul
R. Shepherd
R. Powell

anadayardi 2019-07-12 14:50:01 

In reply to conman[/b[b]]thats what i dont understand with folks, there actually is no proper captain replacement that can cause a fundamental change to team from loosing to winning, i dont think that exist in the modern game for any team

Morgan changed England's approach to ODIs

natty_forever 2019-07-12 15:00:22 

In reply to stroke

And your captain would be?

Also, no Roach?

jacksprat 2019-07-12 15:05:09 

In reply to stroke

Look at the teams that have been successful and were in the final four --- they all made significant changes after the last world cup and continue to make changes

Lest we forget West Indies did also make significant changes after the last World Cup but had to run back to some of the grizzled veterans -just to qualify !- after the youngsters were found wanting.

We are not Australia who can wantonly discard players, and not miss a beat, because our system is very poor.

It will be hard pressed to find potential world beaters when teams are routinely bowled out for around 200 hundred runs, or less, in our FC competition.

natty_forever 2019-07-12 15:10:12 

In reply to jacksprat

Changes didn't have to be personnel, more strategic in my opinion. That is, sticking with the veterans and slowly inject a yute here and there over the 4 yrs.

jacksprat 2019-07-12 15:21:34 

In reply to natty_forever
That's would be nothing new as that's the way sensible cricket boards have traditionally done it; until these genii bureaucrats came on the scene.

seaegg99 2019-07-12 15:28:36 

You send a young inexperienced team to play against battle harden veterans and expect what kind of results again? Most of those games we were a knuckle headed shot away from winning. Going in we knew it would be high scoring games regardless of who we were playing. Veteran players are just not going to keel over and watch from the pavilion. WI on the other hand seemed well adjusted to that. We are losing on the mental side of the game not the physical. LLoyd had battle tested players with him while Holder's lineup, including himself, is as green as grass.

seaegg99 2019-07-12 15:30:22 

In reply to natty_forever

The team have to get mentally stronger. We were one of the most talented teams there but also one of the most mentally weak teams.

Larr Pullo 2019-07-12 16:34:20 

In reply to seaegg99

The only person I would change Holder for is Darren Sammy! If the Big Idiot (Hons) hadn't got up in his feelings, we could have a settled and seasoned team going into this world cup.

If they don't be careful, the next world cup will come around and we'll still be going around in circles.

LBW375 2019-07-12 16:39:36 

In reply to stroke

Lloyd's opinion is more informed and less flawed than 100% of posters on this mb

timeless99 2019-07-12 17:49:28 

Am still yet to come to grip with this Holder is yet to win a series after 4 years and he should not be fired that's just stupid

pariaman 2019-07-12 19:09:51 

In reply to timeless99

So if we go another 4 without a victory?

There must be a redline somewhere!

FuzzyWuzzy 2019-07-12 19:32:10 

In reply to Larr Pullo

If they don't be careful, the next world cup will come around and we'll still be going around in circles.

That's exactly what happened.
A makeshift team in 2011 after the hugs fight

A makeshift team in 2015 after the India series debacle.

A makeup team in 2019 after the election of skerritt

imusic 2019-07-12 20:45:16 

Jason Holder made his debut as WI ODI captain against South Africa on january 16 2015

Since then, he’s captained WI in 83 ODI’s to date

The team has won 24, lost 52 and tied 2 ODI matches with him as captain

The remaining 5 ODI matches were no result

So in 4 1/2 years, the ODI team under his captaincy, has more than TWICE the number of losses as wins.

This isn’t conjecture. It isn’t speculation. This is FACT.

But somehow, even debate about removing him from the captaincy of the ODI team MUST NOT BE CONSIDERED according to some?

The epitome of insanity on display.

Larr Pullo 2019-07-12 22:41:38 

In reply to imusic

Who to put?

FuzzyWuzzy 2019-07-12 22:49:44 

In reply to Larr Pullo

If there's some strategy planning behind the removal of Holder that's fine.

If we are replacing him just to give another fella a chance then that's silly and before long we'll be right back here asking for that fella to be replaced.

rillo 2019-07-12 23:05:11 

In reply to LBW375

He is history. His tactics and skill as captain has passed. His decisions lately has looked foolish. If he was such a genius why didn't he beat Cameron for the presidency?
That tells you how much he is revered around these parts.
he is trying to find his mojo back but it has left him years ago.

rillo 2019-07-12 23:07:02 

In reply to imusic

Therefore Lloyd is mad.
He is trying desperately to hold on to his legacy but he is tarnishing that every time he opens his mouth.
Didn't he say that WI will surprise some teams in the WC? That did. They did not show up.

imusic 2019-07-12 23:24:17 

In reply to rillo

WI surprised Pakistan and Afghanistan. That would classify as “some teams”

imusic 2019-07-12 23:38:08 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

What sort of strategy did you have in mind?

Support the captain in every way possible? Holder and former CWI President has a very close relationship. The former President said they regularly used to go for dinner and discuss ways to have the WI team perform better.

Holder was given the teams he wanted.

He was given the personnel he was comfortable with

He was amply rewarded with retainer contracts in all 3 formats of the game

He has all the requisite perks that go along with being the WI team captain

He has the full support off the board

He has the vociferous protection and advocacy of the President of the BCA

It’s not out of the question to believe that he’s been afforded access to training courses for development and leadership over the course of his nearly 5 year tenure.

I’m curious to see what other strategies are suggested to achieve better results.

FuzzyWuzzy 2019-07-12 23:57:34 

In reply to imusic

I'll ignore all the trivia. What I mean if CWI announced a strategic plan for next couple of years and said in keeping with that strategy imusic is the new captain. I say carry on. Mind you the policy must be clear and followed by all stakeholders.

No chopping and changing every time we lose a match or some insular PM cries out because his player ain't get picked.

imusic 2019-07-13 00:22:49 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

At the end of the day, no matter what strategy, policy or mandate you have....performance and results are what (should) count.

Cornfused 2019-07-13 00:30:37 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Would we agree that the strategy in the bowling and fielding let us down in this world cup. This can be evidenced how we let Australia off the hook at 36/4 to lose by less than 20 runs.

His record as captain is poor.

Of recent Captain, he merits a place on the team more so than Sammy did in his tenure, but that is not saying much.

To have Holder as Captian of all three formats is pure nonsense.

Don't touch Holder? Really rolleyes

BeatDball 2019-07-13 01:53:55 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy


jelfew 2019-07-13 05:43:30 

In reply to Cornfused

I believe Holder should be retained as our test captain and Hety our T20 captain. I don't have a suggestion for the ODI captain. I have to think about it some more. Hey has lead us to championship already and the captaincy should give him a more responsible approach to his batting.

davo 2019-07-13 19:45:23 

Misleading headline and first paragraph have us castigating Lloyd for the wrong reason. Nowhere in the article he is quoted as saying or implying that Holder should not be replaced as captain. Lloyd was referring to Holder’s batting & bowling performances. And as is the norm, the Bajan writer allowed his insularity to deliberately or not misinterpret Lloyd’s comments. You have to wonder when we’re gonna develop the maturity needed to lift our cricket from the doldrums. Despite Holder’s piss poor performance as strategist, motivator & leader over four yrs, some Bajans still want him at the helm.