Message Board Archives

What SR should Hope and Prey(Ambris) aim for?

In reply to Larr Pullo

Shai should anchor. I'll take 85-90 batting up to the 40th over today. This means he will likely face 120 balls scoring 108.

108 after 40 overs and striking at 130 thereafter.

The rest of the team should bat at a SR of around 130. The few extras will take us there.

In reply to Larr Pullo

he should minimize dot balls

that's a start

let me repeat...he can strike at 100 with 10 dot balls or 100 with 50 dot balls

see the difference?

In reply to Larr Pullo

60 runs by the 10th

In reply to Courtesy

In reply to doosra

halfway thru over number 5 and he has 12 already tho his SR is 80

In reply to Larr Pullo

that is a fact you didn't want to accept

glad we have made progress

In reply to Larr Pullo

In reply to doosra

It means you said absolutely nothing!

just to emphasise the point

after 5 overs, Hope batted 4, Ambris 1

that is a critical point...when u turn the strike over things get easier

In reply to Larr Pullo

it means you are not reading my consistently-made point about having high dot balls with a decent strike rate

that means nothing if u eating up all the balls

some Davo is batting for Hope

In reply to doosra

Could that be a plan to get Ambris started? He's(Ambris) been horrid in the early part of his innings.

In reply to Larr Pullo

if Ambris is going to go after the ball, he would need the strike first of all

they cant have 2 slow pokes at the top

In reply to doosra

In reply to doosra

In reply to Larr Pullo

The only batsmen capable of scoring at a rate of 130 for any length of time are Pooran and Hetmyer. You guys are not living in reality.

In reply to Courtesy

Doosra has been known to bolster his points by circular posting.

In reply to Larr Pullo

not me....i don't wash our messy laundry on cricinfo...i do it here...

truth is...even if he strikes at 100, the dot balls mean lesser resources for others to use(courtesy made that point really well)

but i guess ppl will say we have something...which is saving us from total embarrass...

In reply to Dukes

In reply to Larr Pullo

u mean i try to tie you up in circles?

i aim for no such thing i can assure you

his SR is not at 100...he needs to keep it there at minimum with less no more than 1 dot ball per over...

In reply to Larr Pullo

Today if you lose few wickets a SR of 130 batting 10 overs is achievable on this ground. It's a difficult ground to defend. The important thing today is to bat deep into the overs with plenty of wickets in hand.

In reply to doosra

No you just try to be slick.

After 7 overs

Hope 30 off 29, 16 dot balls...

so his SR is 100 but his dot ball ratio is 16/29 = 55%

In reply to doosra

Thats the scampishness you engage in. How is Ambriss doing?

Of those dot balls, how many were defended? How many were balls that HE SHOULD NOT PLAY AT?

In reply to Larr Pullo

In reply to doosra

And on this large ground we should not be looking to hit plenty of boundaries but rotating the strike and batting deep.

In reply to Courtesy

after 50 balls total

Hope 36
Ambris 14

why? as we said the other day..if u bat all the dot balls, how is the other lad getting to bat?

In reply to doosra

See my question above. NOT ALL DOT BALLS ARE THE SAME.

That's the gaping hole in the theory that you and Courtesy are espousing.

You're treating EVERY ball as if the batsman is capable of scoring off it. Theory yes, reality NO!

just to emphasise

his SR is 100...but he has used up 25 dot balls already...

so in essence, he is the only one batting....

In reply to Larr Pullo

In reply to doosra

Our players have not fully grasped that every ball is a resource which has to be converted to runs.

In reply to Larr Pullo

In reply to doosra

That's the gaping hole in the theory that you and Courtesy are espousing.

You're treating EVERY ball as if the batsman is capable of scoring off it. Theory yes, reality NO!

The bowler delivers a seaaring leg cutter and the batsman fails to get bat on it, BUT he doesn't get out. Should that be weighted the same as if Shai Hope pats a half volley all along the ground to cover and doesn't score?

By jove!!! Bravos is padded to come next.

In reply to Larr Pullo

see my above post....i am not disagreeing with bowlers bowling good balls

but 25 out of first 60 is just too many

#minimizeDotBalls

In reply to doosra

#minimizeDotBalls Larr

So how are you evaluating the dot balls mister smarty pants?

That's why I initially said that saying "minimize dot balls" is not really a realistic statistical measure!

In reply to Larr Pullo

let's do a 10 overs analysis

1. 60 balls

2. Hope 43 - 72%, Ambris 17, 28%

3. Hope 24 dot balls = 24/60 = 40% of all resource and 24/43 = 56% personal dot balls

4. Hope's SR is 100 (sounds great) but he has used up 24 dot balls or 4 out of the 10 overs

You have to supply some counter balancing measure to truly evaluate his effectiveness.

The Pakistani ladies just played with soft hands this morning and turned the strike around plenty, plenty. Something Dottin et al refused to attempt much to the detriment of the team.

20 fewer dot balls would have reaped a bag full of positive results.

In reply to Courtesy

For example: This first ball from Udama to Shai Hope could have been played with soft hands and a single taken easily.

In reply to doosra

In reply to Courtesy

In reply to Larr Pullo

You really don't understand it, do you?. Playing with soft hands allows the wrist to take over and this is when you are more likely to find the gaps. It called "touch cricket."

Have you played any cricket?

In reply to Courtesy

The question is, have you?

You seem long on theory but short on execution.

In reply to Larr Pullo

All my youthful life. I can see you don't have a clue.

Why do you think we have the worst dot ball percentage in international cricket?

This last run out, the ball could have easily been placed further to Mathews right with soft hands and not cause any confusion.

since the 10th over

his SR has dropped from 103 to 83

of course he can make it up with a few hits

but that is exactly the point - that he is using up dots in between...

In reply to Courtesy

In reply to doosra

Evaluate the dots please.

It's the space between the notes that makes for a great piece of music.

In reply to Larr Pullo

This is where I make my exit from this thread. Next time, don't bother hollering me name next time. I hate futile efforts.

Doosra, please continue with mission impossible.

Hope

50 off 62 balls, SR 80

32 dot balls = 32/62 = 52%

In reply to Courtesy

i am going to get some reading done

Hope is on 50 off 62 with 32 dot balls

i am coming back, with the Hope (pun) that he is at 100 off 100 with no more than 10 additional dot balls

In reply to Courtesy

Yeah kerry yuh skunt...easily of course...

In reply to Larr Pullo



LBW375 has calculated that the SR needed to win from here is 130.88.

This is why it's crucial for hope to strike at 90.00

You will soon learn.

In reply to Courtesy

The way Bravo, Chase and Pooran going, Hope was a freaking Rolls Royce

In reply to LBW375

Brother, anyone who understands cricket would not have had Bravos and Chase coming in early. We play and think cricket like skunts without any hairs.

In reply to Courtesy

here is a nice little stat from cricinfo

In reply to doosra

De skunts waiting to hit boundaries and sixes. We play cricket like skunts without pwelle or Larr's approach to ODI batting.

Pwelle = pubic hairs.

When will we see a message from the dressing room?

I forgot Trinis don't have the capacity to be proactive.

In reply to Courtesy

How we doing on the Strike Rate?

We will hardly win games with West Indies back loading the innings.

The game is to utilize the first 10 overs to ease the pressure. Our approach to batting in ODI is all wrong.

In reply to Larr Pullo

What do you think is happening here?

The run rate has gone up to close to 11. Even in T20 this is high.

West Indies have choked themselves with a poor batting order, not turning the strike over and no advice or support from the coaching staff on changing their approach.

I don't think you will come close to understanding this. This was too easy to predict.

In reply to Courtesy

Yeah losing wickets had absolutely nothing to do with it. They just need to play with soft hands into the gap and all will be well.

In reply to Larr Pullo

if the coaches are are stubborn as you are on this issue

we will not fix this issue

In reply to Larr Pullo

What was the initial run rate required and how did it end with close to 11 with so many overs to go?

Your expertise is needed here.

In reply to doosra

In reply to Larr Pullo

Do you guys actually look at the game??? We are not talking about great balls that beat the bat. We are talking about balls that are played firmly out to fielders but too quickly to get a single. We are also talking about balls played to long off and they WALK a single . If you run the first run quickly you can pressurize the fielder and he might make a mistake.

In reply to Dukes

Forget Larr...he does not have a clue. This is basic cricket we are talking about.

In reply to Dukes

Exactly Dukes. Are you going to do the dot ball analysis I've been waiting for Doosra to provide?

In reply to Larr Pullo

In reply to Courtesy

Larr think seh Dr Dukes on his side on this one



Larr seh he got a taxonomy of dot balls he would like to share

come on Larr, let it out

In reply to Courtesy

All i'm hearing from you guys if I may distill your comments:

-The batsmen played the wrong shot

-The batsmen hit the ball too hard/too soft

-The batsmen didn't run fast enough or they ran too slow.

Reality Check - They are playing to their abilities!!!

In reply to doosra

Obviously you didn't get the sarcasm directed at Dukes. Maybe sarcasm deserves it's own emoji on this board?

In reply to Larr Pullo

In reply to Courtesy

You need to check the resources that you're looking at. Garbage in Garbage out....

In reply to Larr Pullo

In reply to Larr Pullo

Bannas, I deh in Ocho Rios chilling with a cocktail in mih hand tekking in some nice sea breeze. Life sweet baaad. No time fuh dem eediats.Mih tiad casting pearls to swine!!!!

In reply to Courtesy

When performing multi-variate analysis you have to ensure that the variables that you're entering into your model are relevant. Hence, garbage in, garbage out.

Anyway, enough of that shite...back to strike rate.

In reply to Dukes
Enjoy life bro.
Today is Sir Everton birthday, lets wish him a Happy Birthday.

WIA Fernando faced 123 balls for his 127, with 41 dot balls = 33%, SR 103.

Hope faced 65 balls for his 51, with 36 dot balls = 55%, SR 78

Fernando faced 62 balls more than Hope but only 5 more dots...let that sink in

So even though Fernando is "just" doing a run a ball SR, his dot ball percentage is 22 points lower than Hope's (meaning he scored 22 runs more per 100 balls than Hope)

this is a classic case of how the dot ball problem gets hidden by an overall strike rate...when ppl say you can catch up later, they often ignore how much those wasted dot balls earlier affect the entire team...

Fernando is 21 and playing in his 17th match

Hope is 26 and playing his 77th

Hope has played 50 ODIs more than this lad...

we have to learn...

Fernando's is 97 but he's only in his 17th match

In reply to doosra

Could you please extend that analysis for all the windies batsmen who played today?

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

you can do that yourself and make your point...my name was called on this thread and I am providing evidence to support my argument

make your own argument and i shall come een if i so find the need to

In reply to doosra

Ok....I suspect you don't want to see the obvious

In reply to doosra

Nice catch on WIA Fernando Doosra. It lays bare our dot ball problem and our latent problem in ODI.

Our posters here are typical West Indians, they can't see past their noses. I mean can't see the wood from the trees.

The simple lesson is this: SR on its own can be misleading. While one may have a reasonable SR he/she may take up lots more resources to achieve that SR as compared to other international batsmen.

In the case of Shai Hope: his SR is considerably less than other international players and he has the double whammy of eating up more resources to achieve this less than satisfactory SR.

West Indies starts all innings with this significant disadvantage.

The problem for West Indies is further compounded by the choice of his opening partner and the number 3 batsman.

If Shai Hope opens in ODI, his batting partner cannot be Sunil Ambris and the number 3 batsman cannot be Darren Bravos. This batting order/arrangement gives up too many resources for less than optimal returns and will fail more often than not.

I would suggest another more accurate reflection would be to multiply the SR by the dot ball factor thus converting it to a weighted SR.

Hencforth let this be called the Doosra/Courtesy method.

In reply to Courtesy

It's actually, The Doosra/Coutesy Confirmation Bias enigma.

In reply to Larr Pullo

But unless you can highlight the biasness in the approach then you are just blowing hot smelly air.

This is your opportunity to elucidate. Use it wisely.

In reply to Courtesy

How many resources were left "uneaten" by the teams inability to face 300 legal deliveries??

In reply to Larr Pullo

In reply to Larr Pullo

throw in the premature allout factor!

In reply to Courtesy

In reply to Courtesy

No metric will help dunces

Next we will discuss stochastic vs deterministic noise...

Of course this is strictly as it relates to Shai Hope vs the other "resources" on the team as currently constructed.

In reply to Larr Pullo

or taller people make better leaders..

In reply to Khaga

I concur. We are currently playing cricket like skunts without pwelle.

you know there is a way to dismantle confirmation bias right Larr?

it ent thru throwing out random bits and pieces of metrics

you can start with the dot ball taxonomy you hinted at earlier...and then apply it to others to see how it applies universally...does it pass the consistency test etc?

In reply to Khaga

No that's actually a fact!

In reply to doosra

Any metric that you can construct gets destroyed by the fact that the WI batters couldn't ustilize all their resources.