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HEADLINE: 'Nationalism hurting Windies cricket - 'Kenny Benjamin

 
CaribbeanCricket.com 2020-10-07 13:52:56 

Former West Indies pace bowler Kenny Benjamin believes the development of regional and by extension West Indies cricket is stifled by the tendency of franchises to prefer players from their home countries.

A franchise system was introduced to the regional cricket set-up approximately six years ago. It has led to teams taking part in the regional One Day and Four Day tournaments as clubs, as opposed to just countries.

For the most part, however, with a few exceptions, the franchises have remained mostly composed of players from the countries in which they are based.  Benjamin believes some of that is due to a bit of nationalism, which he has pointed out is harmful to the professional set-up and the development of the game overall.

“One of the things in the Caribbean is that I think, patriotism is killing us.  Sir Viv would know that when we go to England to play and when he played for Somerset and Glamorgan that’s where you play for and that’s where you represent because that’s where you are at that time.  But I think in the Caribbean everybody wants to play for their country rather than play cricket and that is one of the problems we are facing,” Benjamin said in a recent interview with the Good Morning Jojo Sports Show.

Read more at SportsMax


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velo 2020-10-07 14:11:00 

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com
it's been going on for years kenny you late to the party the franchise system is a joke they are players who i think could get a shot playing for another country when they are not picked for their home territory instead of sitting on the bench.

 
Halliwell 2020-10-07 15:54:31 

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

The extreme irony of this, coming from the lips of Kenneth Benjamin
I think the scientific term is “oi mi belly”

 
Yadi 2020-10-07 16:23:09 

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

Exactly what I was thinking.

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-07 16:42:37 

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

Wow.....antiguans are the most nationalistic after bajans(who are light years in front).....with the exception of curtly ambrose.......and the referencing Viv....who was/is the most nationalistic of the lot.....if you don't believe me, ask viv about the consistent presence of Keith Atherton on his test teams despite atherton scoring the first of his 2 centuries at test level in 1992/3....after viv had retired............have some bloody shame benjamin

 
Fivestar 2020-10-07 18:12:03 

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

Kenny Benjamin makes an excellent point. Player movement could improve the level of cricket in the region.

Unfortunately, when you are surrounded by water nationalism can be taken to new heights. Just look at Brexit.

West Indies cricket has never fully embraced player movement so it might take some coaxing for it to be accepted.

When I followed Shield Shell Cricket I can only recall one cricketer who played for another country and it was Wes Hall who played for Trinidad.

In order to climb out from the bottom of international cricket we must be willing to embrace new ideas.

 
beesis 2020-10-07 18:18:45 

In reply to Jumpstart
Okay...I got all that but bloody shame or not - did he make a valid point?

 
imusic 2020-10-07 18:31:54 

Sure. Player movement. Who’s going to pay for it?

 
Fivestar 2020-10-07 19:13:50 

In reply to imusic

Perhaps we can ask Trump, the successful businessman, for a donation.

 
imusic 2020-10-07 19:31:35 

In reply to Fivestar

You saying Mexico will pay for it?

 
dayne 2020-10-07 19:45:07 

The Selectors in the individual regions are under pressure to select local players, opportunities are limited for players in the WI, so the Selectors give the opportunities to players they are familiar with.

 
Kay 2020-10-07 20:21:47 

Focus on the message peeps .... don't kill the messenger

 
Baje 2020-10-07 20:30:29 

The CWI selectors should create the the pool from which the franchises can select from
Then you will see more player movement. You can't trust franchises to create the pool

 
imusic 2020-10-07 20:36:37 

Again, who is going to pay for this player movement? And that’s even during pre Covid.

Now in the middle of the pandemic, who is going to pay?

 
Barry 2020-10-07 20:51:59 

In reply to Jumpstart


Wow.....antiguans are the most nationalistic after bajans(who are light years in front).....with the exception of curtly ambrose.......and the referencing Viv....who was/is the most nationalistic of the lot.....if you don't believe me, ask viv about the consistent presence of Keith Atherton on his test teams despite atherton scoring the first of his 2 centuries at test level in 1992/3....after viv had retired............have some bloody shame benjamin


indeed .. . Keith is Ritchie

razz

 
openning 2020-10-08 00:32:03 

In reply to Jumpstart
There is a reason why Bajans don't talk about T&F, but the cricket world knows, The Barbados Pride is the Regional 4 day, organization.
We are the Dallas Cowboys, Manchester United and all the top teams around the world, that have a winning record.
Only last Monday, I switch to my Pittsburg Steelers colours, after a golf tournament, thats what winners can do.
lol lol

 
tc1 2020-10-08 00:49:20 

In reply to Jumpstart

antiguans are the most nationalistic after bajans(who are light years in front).....

[i]

Jumpy a place named Trinidad don't exist, follow by the yard.

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 00:50:00 

In reply to openning
lol lol lol lol lol lol
Hoss you have not one ounce of shame. Saying Pride is the 4 day Man Utd with players averaging 20s and 30s in international cricket is like saying Maldives is the best footballing nation among sri lanka, bhutan and Kiribati.....you are delusional

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 00:53:43 

In reply to tc1

Maybe....but the last great player from the WI is a trinidadian. When the generation that saw viv and co leaves the scene, people will remember Brian Charles Lara, not pedro collins or Roland Holder or tino best or kraigg brathwaite or shai hope or miguel cummins or the how much failures Barbados has offered WI cricket since the great Desmond Haynes' retirement

 
openning 2020-10-08 00:58:21 

In reply to Jumpstart
1965-2020, 22 wins.
Thats why the comparison.
That s why the Barbados fans can walk tall, when speaking of 4 day cricket in the region
Link Text

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 01:02:44 

In reply to openning

Stop living in the past yo.....sounding like those Nottingham forest supporters who boast about winning the european cup( now championsleague) twice decades ago while currently being in 22nd place in the second division of english football. I'm sure Barbados cant even beat Boland from South Africa in a four day fixture

 
openning 2020-10-08 01:09:03 

In reply to Jumpstart
Did the Pride not win the Regional 4 day tournament this year?

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 01:12:48 

In reply to openning

You actually take Pride in winning the 2nd or third worst first class competition in the world? As i said winning our 4 day tournament is like maldives boasting they have the best footballers among bhutan and montseratt

 
Tryangle 2020-10-08 01:17:20 

Would the one day and four day teams be willing to rename and rebrand in a way such that the country name is no longer present, in that case? That seems to be the only way to achieve what Benjamin is suggesting in terms of nationalistic goals.

 
openning 2020-10-08 01:30:12 

In reply to Jumpstart
Just like any team take pride in winning tournaments.
Barbados has produce two of the best cricketers the world have seen, Sir Garfield Sober and Malcolm Marshall, for such a tiny Island, every young bajans should know about them, just like they know how great Usain Bolt was, in T&F.

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 01:35:36 

In reply to openning

Hoss get over it....Gary is retired and Maco is no longer with us( i.e he's dead). Imagine two of your biggest players cant get their averages above 35 in tests.. and that is what you're proud of?

 
openning 2020-10-08 02:44:51 

In reply to Jumpstart

Imagine two of your biggest players cant get their averages above 35 in tests.. and that is what you're proud of

You are now moving from Bajan fans to players, you must have a number of batsman in the region, who regional and test averages are better, I am not a selector, but I am a follower of regional cricket.
We've been losing for 25 years or more, this is a CWI problem, but will say to you and this MB, watch the development of young players from that tiny dots, they have a national academy..

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 03:18:06 

In reply to openning

Not at all. What i did say is that the last truly great batsman to come from the WI was a Trinidadian, a fact that cannot be contested

 
openning 2020-10-08 04:01:49 

In reply to Jumpstart
I would add Shiv, Gayle and Sarwan.
I had a love hate relationship with Hooper, one day I would write about the destruction of team chemistry in the CWI.
I believe it started with Brian Charles Lara.

 
Fivestar 2020-10-08 04:42:30 

In reply to openning

...one day I would write about the destruction of team chemistry in the CWI. I believe it started with Brian Charles Lara.

Are you suggesting Brian Charles Lara was not a great batsman?

 
openning 2020-10-08 04:44:58 

In reply to Fivestar
You have to be a Jackass to reply to any post from me, about The Greatness of BCL.
If you want to debate on team Chemistry and BCL, I have time to voice my opinion.
.

 
Fivestar 2020-10-08 05:12:21 

In reply to openning

I would love for you to explain how Brian Lara destroyed team chemistry in the CWI.

 
tc1 2020-10-08 05:34:16 

In reply to Jumpstart

And the only cricketer that anyone will remember from Titland is Lara. the only test cricketer from titland to 40 avg. while playing more than 10 matches. the tits were always the weakest link in WI cricket.

 
Fivestar 2020-10-08 05:43:08 

In reply to tc1

Have you heard of a guy named Jeffrey Stollmeyer?

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 09:33:59 

In reply to openning

Lara is the reason Hooper averages 36? Actually, Sarwan, Tiger and Lara have an excellent relationship. Sarwan in fact has an excellent relationship with all the Trinidadian players.

Lara could cant be blamed for the fact that hooper had the concentration of an autistic flea, the fact that Chris Gayle never learned to use his feet, that Stuart Williams never worked hard enough to make good on his talent. People conveniently attacked lara. At one point, Ridley Jacobs said(in 2005) Lara was the most selfish player he played with. Last year, he said that Lara was the best captain he played under and he always consulted with the senior players. The only other two players i who have publicly complained about Lara are Gayle and Samuels. In turn, both Walsh and Ambrose complained about how disrespectful Gayle was on his first tour in England 2000. And the only thing Samuels has to his name worth anything is two fantastic knocks in two WT20 finals

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 09:39:08 

In reply to tc1

See how many matches the WI would have won in 1984( where we won 11 straight matches) if Larry Gomes didn't consistently prod, average over 90 that year and receive ta Wisden cricketer of the year award

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 09:40:00 

In reply to Fivestar
Calculus.....yuh hadda use partial integration for that....... rolleyes rolleyes

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 09:40:21 

In reply to tc1

Sunrisers bring holder off the bench yet

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 12:38:28 

In reply to tc1

Just prior to the West Indians' tour of England in the summer of 1984, Larry Gomes's future as a Test cricketer appeared at an end. At the age of 30, he had been dropped from the West Indies' team in the home series against Australia after fifteen consecutive Test innings without a half-century. The young Antiguan, Richie Richardson, had taken his position in the order at No. 3 and seemingly clinched it with two successive centuries against Australia. Other new challengers for batting places had also emerged in the Shell Shield tournament.

Such pressure was nothing new for the left-handed Gomes, who has been generally underrated by the public and frequently rejected by the selectors. But each time he has seemed down and out, he has had the strength of character to re-establish himself.

Far from depressing him, his omission on this occasion merely strengthened his resolve. "It was probably a blessing in disguise that I was dropped," he said after scoring the second of his two Test centuries in the series in England last summer which brought him firmly back to his familiar role as a steadying influence on the West Indies' batting. "It made me concentrate on what I was doing wrong, on why I wasn't getting big scores any longer. I decided to go into the nets and work on it before the tour."

What Gomes was doing wrong was closing the face of the bat on point of impact when making a shot; in other words, playing across the line of flight. He decided to alter his grip, dropping his hands a little lower on the handle to have full control of the bat. Then he went into the nets, for hour after hour, subjecting himself to the monotony of a bowling machine set to one line which forced him to play straight.

The value of the exercise was soon evident in the early matches of the England tour, culminating in an undefeated 109 against Northamptonshire in the last match before the first Test. It was enough to regain Gomes his place at No. 3, and his first four Test innings yielded scores of 143 at Edgbaston, 10 and 92 not out at Lord's and 104 not out at Headingley. Only Greenidge surpassed his average in the series (81.71 to 80.00) and Gomes had, once more, emphasised his value to West Indies. What is more, he had shown the qualities that have kept him going through many times of crisis since he first came into representative cricket in the late 1960s.

Link Text

Trinis aint produce nothing aside from lara eh...bloody illiterate

 
dayne 2020-10-08 13:51:38 

In reply to tc1

Well there is another Trinidadian batsman who was forgotten, but who has a better Test average than Lara and played in 15 Test. Have you forgotten Charlie Davis? His average ranks among the best in WI cricket.

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 14:09:12 

In reply to dayne

dem is tribal morons bro....they're not worth the time

 
tc1 2020-10-08 14:29:09 

In reply to dayne

how many test innings did CD played, lest than 15.there was a time that TNT had 2 test matches and the WI played a tits to appease their fans.

 
tc1 2020-10-08 14:31:58 

In reply to Jumpstart

you like many tits think that WI cricket began in 1992.

 
dayne 2020-10-08 14:43:42 

In reply to tc1

C Davis batted 29 Test innings, he made runs away from Trinidad, it is illogical to argue against the talent of a batsman with a 54 Test average in 15 Test. It took Gary Sobers 4 years in Test cricket to make his first Test century.

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 15:22:48 

In reply to dayne

Dayne TC1 is a rabid nationalist. Barbados is god's gift to cricket and nobody else contributed to its success. I'm sure the test score card for the perth 1984 test would attest to such
here TC none.......Knock yourself out moron
Link Text

 
openning 2020-10-08 15:44:14 

In reply to Jumpstart
Larry Gomes was the glue that kept the batting together, he knew is role and was treated with respect, thru-out his career.
That is why he still speak highly of both Clive and Viv.
Can you name a few former players, that speak of BCL leadership?
Please direct me to a link.

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 16:03:51 

In reply to openning

no problem at all.......first ridley in 2005

Honestly, the biggest problem is the skipper," Jacobs told Essential, a bi-monthly magazine published in his native Antigua & Barbuda. "The skipper sets the tone for the whole team. You can't be captain and always in the spotlight. You can't be a good captain and have an attitude when you don't do well."

Link Text

Next Ridley in 2020
You can't do it on your own and Brian is always asking questions, always asking me questions and the other senior guys questions. He would pile the info and get the best from it. I think that makes a good captain

Link Text

Next the words of Pedro Collins
In the dressing room, Lara was just Lara. He was just cool about it. He didn't act like he was too big. He just did Lara – cool and calm, foolin' around a little bit. There was no like, 'I'm the big guy here, I deserve this, I deserve that'. He was just normal. I admired that about the guy.

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Next Jimmy Adams
Brian came out of the selection meeting and told me it had been a weird selection meeting. He went in, they gave him a piece of paper and they said, 'That's it – that's your team. Get on with it'. I asked him about a couple of the selections when he told me what the XI was, and he said, 'I really didn't have a choice, Jimmy – this is what they gave me. They said, captain the team that you're given, or else.' You knew the rope was getting shorter for him in terms of captaincy. He was under a lot of pressure, and not just from the public generally, but in terms of results as captain from the selectors and the board itself

Link Text



Opening, you seem like a reasonable dude, unlike TC none. Examine who has criticized lara as a leader. Curtly Ambrose criticized lara for virtually campaigning for the captaincy, rightfully so and even in TTO, lara lost some friends temporarily. Chris Gayle and Marlon Samuels, two gentlemen who despite some stellar performances do not have a good reputation in West Indies cricket. That is a fact. Two gentlemen, when we are talking about the test game have underperformed badly. Gayle averages over 40 in tests, but look at his contemporaries: the sehwags, the langers, the strausses, the cooks, the haydens, the gambhirs......they all average higher than him. Samuels failures don't even need to be mentioned and everybody knows how arrogant they are. Ambrose was appalled by Gayle's arrogance on the England tour of 2000. You need to read the right sources. Look at what i have posted. Things totally contrary to the bile guys like holding and cozier, who never hid their dislike for lara, have said and written. And just remember, just because its written in the mainstream media, does not mean it is not tinged with bias.

 
Barry 2020-10-08 16:19:26 

In reply to openning

I had a love hate relationship with Hooper, one day I would write about the destruction of team chemistry in the CWI.
I believe it started with Brian Charles Lara.

Brian and not the Antiguan and Nevis faggots?
Let's rewrite history then.

 
Barry 2020-10-08 16:20:49 

In reply to Jumpstart
You the man

big grin

 
Barry 2020-10-08 16:26:31 

In reply to openning

Larry Gomes was the glue that kept the batting together, he knew is role and was treated with respect, thru-out his career.
That is why he still speak highly of both Clive and Viv.
Can you name a few former players, that speak of BCL leadership?
Please direct me to a link.

You stop slandering the boy, you satanic operatives . . . {....} couldn't destroy us and he was dropping it on every South African prostitute he could find and then begging for money (Ask Lloyd about the promised knife in he fat belly). The wife beater could not destroy team spirit when he left the team to beat the English reporter. The Antiguan hooligan couldn't destroy team spirit when he threatened the boy . . . but is the boy kill the . . . wait that team had spirit . . . the same one who wanted to beat Holding when he captained for a moment . . . mauvais langue will return

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol cool

 
tc1 2020-10-08 16:31:00 

In reply to dayne

Charlie played just 15 test matches and made about 1500 test runs , of those runs he made about 1100 in the Caribbean, his avg. was about 16 in Aussie land and just about 33 in England. Do you think he a great batsman.

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 16:36:55 

In reply to Barry

I have never heard viv say anything about larry.....clive and holding are
two totally different stories. They talk about the need for a larry gomes or gomes type player(as recently as last year's CWC) and the steel of any batting lineup. My understanding was that viv didn't like larry. Some people judging by the way they interacted while batting thought viv hated gomes. Now that could be conjecture but it is what i have heard from multiple sources in Trinidad

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 16:39:42 

In reply to tc1

You're behaving as if the grounds in the caribbean were the roads india used to prepare in the 70s and 80s......batting in the caribbean, especially at QPO( which is slow and deteriorates quickly) and Kensington( where very few people win chasing anything substantial) is some kinda easy feat that could be just dismissed.

 
tc1 2020-10-08 16:54:27 

In reply to Jumpstart




Jumpfart, coping and pasting the scorecard did not advance your argument, 2 Trini players made tons, however the bowling won the game for the WI. Holding, Mallie, big bird and Walsh taking 20 wks. Holding was man of the match.

The posting of the score card confirm your nationalistic interest in romantic nationalism.

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 16:55:46 

In reply to Barry

larry actually gives insight into viv as cappo

lloyd got us to play together as a unit while viv was altogether different, he also didn''t have as professional a unit as clive's
..


Link Text
make of that what you will

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 17:03:01 

In reply to tc1

dude....larry dujon came in at 89 for 3 and dujon(is he bajan) came in at 5-104. If he and dujon made nothing, firstly, there was no way Australia was following on even if they had been dismissed for the 76 they made in the first innings, thanks to holding. And they made 228 in the second. If holding( is he bajan) was not there, it is likely their first innings would have been more than the WI first innings total without gomes and dujon's hundreds............hoss you hadda be the dunciest man in the caribbean

 
tc1 2020-10-08 17:58:14 

In reply to Jumpstart

Your above rants, indicates your mental status, you are an idiot., the bowlers won the game, with support from the batting. THe man of the match was a bowler.

I agree with you that Malco, Big bird , Dessie and Greenridge are trini.

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 18:02:57 

In reply to tc1

dummy the west indies were in first yuh moron......hoss i sure you is one who boycott the SA test over the mango headed one, Anderson summings. You seem that stupid


Take away gomes and dujon's hundreds and holding's six wickets. WI total without dujon's two hundreds is 150, less than australia's following on score of 228. And as quick as perth was, it wasn't the dangerous drop-in wickets of WSC..........By the way, Greenidge ever score a hundred in Australia? just curious....i lie, he made one, in a drawn match at adelaide in 88....he doesent have a hundred versus lillee or thomson. Larry has two, one at sabina vs thomson

 
Fivestar 2020-10-08 18:38:44 

In reply to Jumpstart
Larry Gomes was able to correct flaws in his batting by spending hours with a bowling machine. One wonders why some of our current Test batsmen can't seem to correct their flaws. For example, some continually get out with both feet glued to the crease.

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 18:40:06 

In reply to Fivestar

indeed

 
tc1 2020-10-08 20:20:09 

In reply to Jumpstart

Again, idiot, the bowlers won the game, Holding, assisted by the two bajans. A bowler was adjust player of the match.

Yeah, idiot , go ahead and make the comparison between Gomes and Greenridge, it will elevate your status as the village idiot.

I done

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 21:24:27 

In reply to tc1

Have a good day sir

 
Maispwi 2020-10-08 21:39:47 

In reply to tc1

No Bishop and am sure Charlie Davis averaged more dan 45

 
Jumpstart 2020-10-08 21:42:05 

In reply to Maispwi

Charlie davis averaged 54 actually

 
azadtnt 2020-10-13 15:15:47 

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

To resolve this issue of Nationalism is disassociate the Countries from the franchises. As long as the Country's name is attached it becomes natural for loyalty and Patriotism to exist.

 
camos 2020-10-13 15:28:55 

CWI cannot farm out its developmental duties to people with a different motive and desire!