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George Headley
Everton Weeks
Gary Sobers
Clyde Walcott
Viv Richards
Brian lara
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Courtney Walsh
Andy Roberts

This topic will invoke some serious banter. Can only base on those I have seen rather than read about. Also a liking for styles and personal preferences. Here are my considerations.
Sobers
Kanhai
Lara
Richards
Rowe
Marshall
Walsh
Inshan Ali
Franklyn Stephenson
Sylvester Clarke

In reply to nitro


The Guyana Cricket Board has written to you nitro expressing what it says is its disappointment at your selection relating to Guyanese players.

In reply to Raisedseam

Lance Gibbs maybe.

My ten in any order

Brian Lara
Gary Sobers
Viv Richards
Frank Worrel
Everton Weekes
Malcolm Marshall
Andy Roberts
Rohan Kanhai
Curtly Ambrose
George Headley

Special mentions;
Courtney Walsh
Clyde Walcott
Lawrence Rowe
Michael Holding
Learie Constantine

In reply to Overthrow

Yes your list will invoke some banter, some of those players will not even make the 20 best list, question marks could be placed against the names of Inshan Ali, Stevenson, Rowe, Clarke. None of those guys played enough Test cricket to even get the chance to acquire exceptional numbers

In reply to Overthrow

You saw Sobers and Rohan?

In reply to dayne

The question did not qualify test cricket. Saw these players in many regional games.

In reply to openning

Yes, was quite young but old enough to witness the greatness.

In reply to Overthrow

Usually Test cricket is used as a measure to determine greatness

In reply to Raisedseam

George Headley
Everton Weekes
Clyde Walcott
Garry Sobers
Lance Gibbs
Viv Richards
Michael Holding
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Brian Lara

Kanhai
Kalli
Chanderpaul
Lloyd
Hooper
Sarwan
Sobers
Marshall
Weekes
Greenidge
Croft

In reply to WestDem

Nobody has to guess which island you're from.

In reply to WestDem

In reply to Fivestar

WestDem is from Suriname and was granted refugee status in Guyana

In reply to dayne

Generally the rule of thumb. At that time there was a plethora of talent and the four prong, it was difficult to replace a set and performing player. Rowe is the best batsman I ever saw in my prejudiced opinion. Inshan Ali was voted number 6 in the top ten wrist spinners in the world recently by Wisden. He was mesmerizing when on his game. Sadly his demons conquered him. Clarke and Stephenson were amazing cricketers in the wrong time and moved to the rebel tour of S.A. They were fearsome in English county cricket.

It is difficult for me to pick ten great West Indies cricketers, but my three favourite batsman are;
Sir Everton
Seymour Nurse
Gordon Greenidge
The super batman/cricketer like Sir Gary, Viv and Lara, came from another planet, very similar to Ali and MJ.

Here what is funny and I could have said "I told you so" about this thread.

How many people you see so far has Chris Gayle on their list? Hmmm but their is an active thread in the forum where men fighting up saying Chris Gayle is one of the WI test greats

See you cannot make this shoite up ... See when ask for a list of great players Gayle does not come to mind because you not thinking of him but if a thread is created about him then man throwing up their hands saying how can you say Gayle not great

Maybe now that I mention the obvious some members will have Gayle on their list

In reply to problemjay

Okay, I took the bait, Gayle is one of the top ten greatest West Indian 20/20 cricketers.

In reply to Fivestar

The argument by many members in another thread is whether Gayle is a great test batsman. And by judging by the lists I see here I will say most people say no. you can’t be a great WI batsman and not be great in tests

In reply to imusic

Have to show some loyalty to the country that accepted me and my foolishness...justice for de Amazon..

I am using great as meaning more than statistics but also impact both on and off the field of cricket.

Learie Constantine
George Headley
Frank Worrell
Everton Weekes
Gary Sobers
Rohan Kanhai
Clive Lloyd
Viv Richards
Brian Lara
Malcolm Marshall
Michael Holding

In reply to VoopsandOut

Did Kanhai did more for the game than Clyde Walcott.

In reply to openning

I included Kanhai because of his batting style, which was on balance a greater contribution to the game internationally than Walcott's prodigious scoring and his contribution to WI cricket administration. We only have room for 10 so I had to make a choice. People like Walsh (one of my all time favourite cricketers) and Gibbs who each held world bowling records and Ambrose could not make the 10 either. All a matter of opinion.

In reply to Raisedseam

DR SHIV CHANDERPAUL.ONE OF THEM

The Spin Twins, Ramadhin and Valentine?

In reply to Overthrow

:

In reply to TriniStar
Clive Lloydd? a broad a category as cricketers should maybe include one of two 'most' successful skippy talented team or not

In reply to openning

Youtube deh bout yuh kno, but then that means he should've seen some others too

In reply to Brerzerk
The poster wrote this,

Then he included, Sir Gary, Rohan, Clarke and Stephenson, he must had been living on another planet, when Andy Roberts, Michael Holding and Joel Garner was playing.
Clarke and Stephenson must be related to him.
I cannot see Sylvester Clarke or Franklyn Stephenson making a Barbados 15 man squad, and the poster has them among the Top ten greatest West Indians.

I knew some of my choices would be controversial. Personal preferences as to one’s opinion on talent would always encourage dialogue. I stand behind my choices based on my criteria of what great talent is. This in no way denigrates or takes away from the greatness of other players or choices of others. The hope is healthy discussion will always follow. The measuring rod of test cricket is important, however sometimes has to be declined as a factor. Barry Richards for one is held in exceptionally high esteem in some circles as “best in the world”. We are all aware he was never “tested” in test cricket.

In reply to Overthrow
Franklyn Stephenson has not played a test match, and Sylvester Clarke only played 11.
The post is not about talent, it is naming the Top 10 greatest WI cricketers of all time.
It would had been better for you to have a post on the two bajans, not this thread.
The difference between Barry Richards and the two West Indians, Barry would had made South Africa's team, Slyvester Clarke slot on the team was base on injury to one of the 4-5 Sprongs.

In reply to openning

My interpretation of greatness is about talent. With respect to Franklyn and Sylvester they chose the renegade tour, not awaiting their opportunities to play for the W.I. Apprentice my opinion with respect to Barry is valid.

In reply to Overthrow

Please explain greatness, and when is someone considered great?

George Headley
Chris Gayle
Lawrence Rowe
Bryan Lara
Viv Richards
Garry Sobers
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Michael Holding
Lance Gibbs

In reply to VoopsandOut

your top of the line selection with criteria is endorsed alas you cant break up game changers 3Ws

Also great but 11 thru 20

Clive Lloyd
Alvin Kallicharan
Ritchie Richardson
Shiv Chanderpaul
Chris Gayle
Desmond Haynes
Michael Holding
Anderson Roberts
Joel Garner
Sonny Ramadin.

In reply to openning

I will define greatness as personal objectivity on a subject matter. Hence there’s will never be consensus by everyone.

In reply to Overthrow
Talent and great
My belief everyone is born with a gift, not everyone is successful with talent/gift.
Greatness is achieve over time.
I have never seen George Headley bat, just reading about him tells me how great a batman he was.
I watched a lot of Sir Everton, I used to walk from Pinfold Street every Saturday after lessons, to watch Empire.
Both Sylvester and Franklyn had the talent to play at the highest level, they did not achieve greatness, like a Gordon Greenidge or a Malcolm Marshall.
I will also question, if these players would start in an all time Barbados X1.

In reply to openning

Excellent post, with fair and honest dialogue you have supported your point of view. Also liked the personal insight you provided. Trust you consider my opinion as valid to me.

In reply to openning

Thanks for that post. I think that there is a lot of opinion that Clarke would have been one of the greats if given more opportunity. i never knew enough about Stephenson to have an opinion. i think that if the post were only the most talented players, the names may be different as there were many talented players, Rowe and Hooper come to mind, that never made the great list.

In reply to TriniStar

No Grenidge?

Any Top 10 WI must include

Headley
Lara
Richards
Sobers
Gibbs

Then the rest……

Sobers
Headley - never saw
Weekes -
Viv
Lara
Kanhai
Marshall
Ambrose
Worrell
Gibbs

Headley
Richards
Lara
Sobers
Weekes
Marshall
Ambrose
Kanhai
Holding
Gibbs

This task of naming the 10 greatest West Indian cricketers requires nuanced and philosophical approach.It is not just runs or wickets or average or prettiness.It is the effect on the prestige of West Indies cricket, the effect on West Indians at home and in the diaspora and the respect that others have of West Indies cricket.
Here are my ten

1.Sir Frank Worrell
2.Sir Garfield Sobers
3.Sir Clive Lloyd
4. Sir Vivian Richards
5.Mr Brian Lara
6.Mr. Malcolm Marshall
7.Sir Curtly Ambrose
8.Mr. George Headley
9. Sir Clyde Walcott
10. Sir Everton Weekes

In reply to Dukes



Based on your criteria then one of, or, all three of these Indo-Caribbean cricketers-Kanhai, Ramadhin, Chanderpaul- must be included. My choice would be Chanderpaul. Simply because Chanderpaul achieved beyond his given abilities whereas Kanhai never fully realized his enormous gifts and Ramadhin had a suspect action. Shiv for Walcott. Wes Hall must be included. He really was the pioneer and inspiration for the plethora of great fast bowlers of the 70s and 80s. Hall for Ambrose.

In reply to Dukes

I suspect one of your criterian would also be test cricket as opposed to T20.

In reply to Dukes

One man's view.

In reply to DonD

refreshing point of view

Most of us will use differing measurements to determine our choices. There would be no consensus and certainly no right or wrong. Just our opinions.

In reply to DonD

As usual valid, concise reasons for your choices.I must admit that I am quite partial to Clyde Walcott for his enlightened approach to the generation of WI cricketers who followed him.In addition to his mentoring and encouraging the development of Kanhai,Butcher,Solomon and Madray his mentoring of Lloyd and management of the WI post the Australian debacle in 1975-76.

I must admit I did not consider the top Into-Caribbean cricketers nor the first and top cricketers from the Combined Islands.I did consider Rohan Kanhai simply because of his extra-ordinary abilities.
I take your point of naming Wes Hall instead of Curtly Ambrose in view of his pioneering role in West Indian fast bowling history.

In reply to Wally-1

My brother, you must remember that I am a legend in my own mind!!!!!

Based on their accomplishments on the field, my top 10 are:

Sobers
Lara
Ambrose
Richards
Walsh
Weekes
Marshall
Chanderpaul
Headley
Lloyd

In reply to TriniStar
How do you justify Andy Roberts in your top 10?

Listing my 10 heavily based on those i grew up watching with a few undeniable ones before my time

Before my time
Sobers
Viv
Marshall

During my time
Lara
Shiv
Gayle
Walsh
Ambrose
Ridley Jacobs
Sarwan

In reply to Jabari18

Ridley Jacobs great?

I would add him to the overachievers list

But great?

Questionable if he’s even a great Leeward Islands player, far less West Indies

Devon Smith
Darren Ganga
Darren Sammy
Darren Powell
Rawle Branker
Cameron Cuffy
'Sanfud'
Ragoonath
Rajindra Dhanraj
The Jamaican Crampy picked claiming to be a batsman (Lewis?)
Honorable mention 'Broom fuh bat Carlton Baugh

In reply to Brerzerk

Confused with this list. Was it intended for another topic?

In reply to imusic

Ideally my list wouldn’t have had him or Sarwan. But I wanted to make it to 10. Blame it on the era I was born in

In reply to Dukes

If that’s your criteria, how could you possibly omit Learie Constantine?

In reply to WestDem

I’ll add Feddo...

In reply to imusic

I did consider him as well as George Challenor but in the end their body of work in top class cricket was not enough to get them into my top ten.

In reply to Dukes

Arguably....no Learie Constantine....no West Indies cricket

In reply to imusic

agreed. Constantine makes the top 10. He embodied our extremely watchable style of cricket

In reply to VoopsandOut,Dukes

Lord Constantine in Ambrose out

Y is Ambrose in?!?

In reply to Overthrow

Overthrow indeed

In reply to StumpCam

Weekes
Marshall
Ambrose

My list would include Gibbs but based on the argument that he was best of the spinners (otherwise one of the many excluded pacers would be ahead of him)

In reply to Raisedseam

Why not a top 11 to make best team

Headley
Greenidge
Richards
Lara
Weekes
Sobers
Walcott(wkr)
Marshall
Ambrose
Holding
Gibbs

In reply to Logic
“Greatest 11” and “best team” are not synonymous.
But I’m with you on that list as the best team...with one exception. Kanhai comes in for Greenidge.

Team makes it too easy and I agree that the best 11 players do not necessarily make the best team. I agree that Gibbs really has to have a look in for the top 10 but the question is who comes out for him?? From my list, it would have to be Holding. I had in Kanhai because of his stylistic contribution to the game. I am sticking with him. i understand that others will look at his test average and maybe prefer Walcott. Ambrose, Roberts, Walsh, Greenidge, Haynes will all make the top 20 easily but do not make my top 10 despite their very obvious contributions.

In reply to VoopsandOut and Da-Vincy

Good points both. No question for me that Kanhai would be ahead of Greenidge in greatest cricketers list. But you could theoretically pick 10 batsman as best players. How do you compare a batsman to a bowler for a greatest player list. Even batting positions are specialist in nature. What would Lara's average look like if he had to open the batting. Hard to compare.

In reply to Logic

When it comes to picking specialist batsmen, my view is that you pick the best 5 or 6 or 7 batsmen period...depending on how to want to configure your team, as well as other complementary skills they may have such as part-time bowling or wicket keeping.

That's because I believe that the idea that you need specialist "openers" is overrated, and that great batsmen can bat anywhere in the order. Just like when openers fall early and middle order batsmen become de facto openers.

I don't think that opening the batting requires any substantially different skills than what great batsmen already possess.

Picking a bowling line-up is more nuanced though.

In reply to StumpCam
Why Gibbs so high? His stats do not support it?

Walcott,
Weekes
Richards
Lara
Chanderpaul
Marshall
Ambrose
Garner
Holding
Headley

In reply to Baje

Sobers?!? you hallucinating

In reply to Raisedseam
Oh yeah, dat guy

In reply to Baje

link

birdie school this slow baje

Saw this and had to share especially in this thread Link Text

In reply to Logic

Logic when I see greatness I recognize it. Unfortunately I have to drag the well intentioned along for a long time before they see me light. Look at the interest in Clarke as a topic.

With respect to Franklyn Stevenson, he was widely considered the heir apparent to Sir Garfield Sobers. We know these comparisons are made for the most ridiculous of reasons. I took any opportunity I got to watch him in action. Was really blown away by his talent and eyes for the game for one so young. Unfortunately WI cricket lost him to the rebel tour before he could make his indelible mark on the game for all to see. He also passed at a fairly young age.

In reply to Overthrow

When did Franklyn died?

In reply to tc1

Sorry my error, working on tools many names from the past at the same time.
Mea Culpa.

In reply to Overthrow

Kool.
Was Narshall, Franklyn, Alleyne,Daniel,Small and Silly from the same era.

In reply to nitro

It's Weekes

In reply to tc1

Alleyne and Small do not register around the same time, but I may be wrong. The rest were all around at the same time. Will attempt to check on the other two.

TC, Gladstone Small and Hartley Alleyne were from a same era. No record of Small playing for The national team and Allenye from 78-79. They both had successful club careers outside of Barbados. Small actually played for England.
Trust this provides answers.
From my memory Wayne Daniel was in the wrong era. Hey was the “fifth” bowler who could not make the team with Roberts, Holding, Croft and Garner representing. I was of the beleif he was the quickest of the five.

In reply to Overthrow

Daniel same era as Clarke both drove fear into county cricketers. Batters pants turn brown when they faced them