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Hubert and JayMor
In reply to FanAttick
News that to me fe true, Fan. No idea! And it's a good song too. Chineyman a say Rasta! (Or should I say 'Chiney Royal?) Wish he didn't sink his career with that ill-advised Rebel tour. Still, his outcome is not as bad as Danny Germs. Tanks fe de prips.
--Æ.
In reply to FanAttick
What is this doing in the back room? A long innings!
In reply to FanAttick
No Sir..Huge surprise.. Herbert Chang ??? Says 1978. That' when he played his only Test.
Music man.Good for him.
That little fellow could bat,especially pace bowling.
So he and Uton Dowe became singers/musicmen ?
Nice tune tho..What became of him ? Last I heard he was struggling with life.
In reply to hubert
He was a great talent indeed..one of my favorite Yardie batters of all time..
Last I heard he was still living in the Yard…
In reply to JayMor
Yeah..sad situation all around for most of the rebels..
In reply to hubert
Beyond struggling, worse than Danny Germs; was rummaging through garbage can.
We are a tough society.
Justice for Herbert, put this in the rum shop!
In reply to hubert Was he not an ex-brother-in-law of Francis Tulloch ?
In reply to hubert I know this is cricket, but did you see that innings of 64 at Sabina Park in the Jamaica vs Australia game in 1973, where he manhandled Dennis Lillee?.
In reply to alfa1975.
Of course ..he bludgeoned Lille with some vicious square drives.
And Yes, I think he and Tulloch had some connection.
In reply to Brerzerk
Wow..And Germs was in a bad way.It is vexed question with me how these players were treated. It even transcends Human rights as the UN
Charter gives the Rights to any and everyone to pursue their professional careers and livelihood.
Government's roles end with advisory not to tour not to dehumanize its citizens.
Check how England ,Australia treated their players. Sri Lanka fell into that area like West Indies and had to do a reversal on life ban.
Pity I did not have the means to support the players in a law suit but those who did inflict such pain are mostly all gone and they
did so by suffering too. God does not like Ugly.
Michael Manley,more so than Seaga dropped so far in my respect that I don't even like mentioning his name. Oh what disaster he inflicted on Jamaica as a Socialist.
But then he had to repent and turn back to Capitalism ,jacket and tie when he returned as leader for a second time. He was a highly flawed leader who
came at a time when he should have left some lasting monuments...I remember him mainly for his persecution of those cricketers.
But because we existed in a banana republic and backward society run by failed politicians, the players had no representation to sue
them all including the WI Board in any Universal court .
court of Justice/ Sports on human rights grounds.. No politician could tell me where not to go and earn a living as distasteful it may seem to them.
That's why I live and earn USA money and this country's record on race was and is no better than South Africa.
Only one journalist, the late Tony Becca stood up for the players. That in itself was an indictment on things ,RIGHTS.
Even Barbados treated the so called 'Rebels' better allowing them as was their right to pursue careers even within cricket .
As far as I know and believe only the Creator has the Right to cancel out a human or humanity.That is not the domain of
man much less politicians.
But as they say,Duppy knows who to frighten.
Little wonder the place called Yard has so many problems.The people have not and never have been served well.
Seems Yagga, Wynter and Mattis have done well for themselves and
had good productive lives in of all places, USA.
In reply to hubert
But then he had to repent and turn back to Capitalism ,jacket and tie when he returned as leader for a second time. He was a highly flawed leader who
came at a time when he should have left some lasting monuments...I remember him mainly for his persecution of those cricketers.
Hubert - On a point of order…
The Yagga Rowe led tours to South Africa occurred from 1982–83 and 1983–84…
Michael Manley was out of power from 1980-1989…
How can you blame him for what the Jamaican government did to the rebels during this period?
Joshua (on his return to power) had a hand in the lifting of the ban…I know because I was privy to the behind the scenes negotiations…..
Come in Hubert!
In reply to hubert
I really didn't expect such a reactionary response. You are actually in agreement with the rebels to have toured Apartheid South Africa! Lemme take the short route... Do you realise that they had to work under the status of honorary white!? And that's OK with you? (If I hear 'America' in response I'll relate a story to show there's no parallel.)
Nothing wrong with being anti-NM, anti-socialist, etc. Nothing wrong with sympathising with the ill-advised rebel tour participants. But this misplaced vitriol I had deemed well nigh of a poster like you, Hubie.
--Æ.
In reply to JayMor
Nothing wrong with being anti-NM, anti-socialist, etc. Nothing wrong with sympathising with the ill-advised rebel tour participants. But this misplaced vitriol I had deemed well nigh of a poster like you, Hubie.
Come in Hubert
Our brethren Hubie’s skin must be made out of leather..how can one man take so much licks?
In reply to FanAttick,JayMor
Michaelk Manley..you are right he was not in power in 82. But do you know he was at the forefront of the Gleneagles
agreement and the Non Aligned movement and in late 70's and until the election of 80 he charted the agnst rhetorically
while Castro and Burnham sent Soldiers to Southern Africa to actually do something by fighting.
He on the other made Apartheid a center piece of rhetoric while pallying up to criminals in his Gang at home..
Do the names Burry Boy and Feathermop rang a bell..
On the other hand Seaga's Shower Posse with greats such as Massop were running roughshod in Jamaica at the time..Later came Dudus. Manley laid the groundwork
for the policy that was put in place which subsequent governments such as Seaga followed and the rebel tour happened under
Seaga's watch.
The cricketers were not criminals and it is instructive to note that eminent a politician as Michael Manley he to my knowledge did not enlighten
his people or the world with a dissertation on politics such as Sovcialism,; rather he is better known and remembered for a Book on Cricket.
I was not only there for that history, I was on the Sports advisory committee to the Manley Government also and served along with Allan Rae among others
on said committee.
Yes I was and remain an avowed anti Socialist as any policy that hinges on 'giving a man a fish' rather than teaching a man' to fish' is not only flawed
in concept but a failure on all counts that matter.
It is ironic that while Manley was espousing such views he committed to rebuild and fund development of a private Cricket Club Kingston (Sabina Park) with tax payers money
when citizens such as women were hardly welcomed in some parts there.
A contradictory man, was MM. ANd his legacy was not lasting in a positive substantative way unlike his Father.
On the matter of Honorary White,- sure it was unsavoury but South Africa unlike The United States did not enslave blacks for hundred of years as did the USA.
Most blacks today do no have to be classified as such in the USA..but in many places being a ' ni'''r is enough to know that equality even today does not
translate to full equality in this my adopted country and their Dollar is as tainted and will remain so as did the Rand. The Mule and 40 acres are still
a dream after 160 years since slavery was abolished in the USA.
I am a honorary black here,and so too are many of you, if you get my drift.
That said, I happily earn the Dollar and accumulate it by plying my profession and provide for Family and progenitors. I would have done
the same with the RAND as I have a responsibility to myself and family by earning honest living and not being criminals like some of the very
politicians that as so revered then now and in the future. Maybe when you think of Slavery you should also think about the Sterling from England
and what thee crown and others have done to out forefathers.
I know some of you self righteous Ones perhaps never give the Dollar or Pound a second thought. They are all Blood MONEY.
The bottom line is that Rights granted by the creator and even by humans through the United nations precludes any government from persecuting anyone for
earning a living through their chosen profession.
The cricketers were not criminals and if they were, show me what law on the books of Jamaica.The players could not even engage in cricket at their
own clubs.
My skin is not of leather. I bleed like anyone FAN, but I stand for RIGHT. And evem if my skin were leather, once you wear out a pair of boots,you can
be supplied with better quality from this source.
Remember that.
In reply to FanAttick
That I k now. But tell me why he did this. He learned.The pity that his epiphany annexed with the WI cricket came after the damage was done to the players.
He could have intervened and would not have necessitated 'negotiation'. Joshua as I stated learned.
In 1973/74 he banned the South African Golfer Gary
Player from coming to Jamaica to play an event. That was the beginning of his campaign against South Africa. He barred an INDIVIDUAL.
Then came 1981..he was PM still when the Robin Jackman affair took place.
Jackman has played cricket in South Africa and so he was not acceptable by 'rules' and when he arrived called to the squad and the England
team was in Guyana for the 2nd Test, Forbes Burnham who was the only leader with credibility on racist South Africa, Barred him from playing in Guyana and the 2nd Test was
cancelled.
This caused an International incident with the English moving to Barbados for the Third Test with the tour in the balance.
Joshua was of the same intent as Burnham but reality hit as the English were about to abort the entire tour if Jackman was not allowed
in the other venues.I was there and very privy to happenings.
The end result was that Joshua saw Jackman, not playing against Jamaica but also in the final Test at Sabina.
I did not expect anything of Seaga as to persecute players and render them non-persons was beyond the pale especially when he had famed criminal and Murderers
in his domain..Massop et al. Joshua also had his bunch also ..the Shower and Clanmans gang are still around and have morphed into something that more thn despicable.
Yet cricketers were made to suffer for earning a honest bread or rand and had no life.
That is all I am saying my friend.
It was wrong . Developed countries would never do that.Even murderers were and are being exalted with Life nowadays.
The Jamaican players knew their West Indies and Jamaica careers were over and accepted that.
So when I see efforts being made for money from Slavery, BLOOD MONEY because of our ancestors, I hope the British King tell them where to get off.
This or other generations should not want BLOOD MONEY.
In reply to hubert
agreement and the Non Aligned movement and in late 70's and until the election of 80 he charted the agnst rhetorically
while Castro and Burnham sent Soldiers to Southern Africa to actually do something by fighting.
He on the other made Apartheid a center piece of rhetoric while pallying up to criminals in his Gang at home..
Do the names Burry Boy and Feathermop rang a bell..
Blinds built a criminal self governing murderous empire in Tivoli Gardens bro….to this day his ignominious legacy lives on…not to mention his callous collusion with the SEE HIGH HAY to visit murderous maymen on Jamaica… Listen Grindsman talk about carrying out operations for Jim Brown
I have had the privilege of conversations with ex SEE HIGH HAY officials who have told me about the extent of the murderous marriage between the JLP and the SEE HIGH HAY…
But back to the Anti-Apartheid legacy of Joshua - that is perhaps one of his signature achievement - and there were many …the entire world owes him a debt of gratitude for what he did in furtherance of the freedom of Africans at home and abroad..
He could have intervened and would not have necessitated 'negotiation'. Joshua as I stated learned.
So the opposition leader should have intervened? You have it twisted bro…Your government failed to act but you’re laying the blame on Joshua…makes no sense
In reply to FanAttick
If he had to negotiate in 1989 he should have Pardoned the cricketers or while in Opposition move the Govt to do so.
That is a man who would have recognized his error. But he did not see it that way apparently.
I know the man and know that he does not like to corrected or take advi ce which he does not agree with.
Did you interface with MNM ?
Not my idea of a great Leader that he was supposed to be.
And don't mention Blinds to me. Never expected anything from JLP govts then or now as they never appear to have the People's best
interest or development on a very high high priority level.
Blinds was See I Here ( CIA plus.)
In reply to hubert
I’m yet to meet a greater leader bro….the unquestionable G.O.A.T
In reply to Hubert
What I don't understand is... The vitriol against MM stemmed obliquely from a discussion of rebel tour members Herb Chang and Danny Germs not having done well for themselves after. So the blame was laid squarely at MM's feet:
Re MM being better known for a book on cricket-- whichever of a man's books sells the most or becomes most popular is outside of his control. But, didn't he pen one book called 'The Politics of Change'? Not being a political animal, I never owned it (perhaps I should say "not yet"), but I imagine he would have addressed his political beliefs in it, no?
BTW, I also noted that, by you, MM had "criminals in his Gang at home" vs "Seaga's Shower Posse with greats such as Massop". Hmmm! Sure, it wasn't written that way on purpose I guess, but even subconsciously...
--Æ.
I've skimmed through what's been posted since my last post and no one is completely right nor completely wrong.
One of the Rebel tour sufferee was himself a very flawed man. His demise began when he returned home and started splurging. Rooms at Pegasus, gal inna bungle and chasing rum with coke...the powder. Anyone ever heard of the only moment Big P was 'white?' The flawed guy hid a certain kind of contraband for 'a certain individual' in the Skippy's lugggage/kit since Skippy was usually treated like a diplomat. But lo n behold a rookie customs officer wanting to impress searched it! Lloyd's response was 'after Packer the only way you and I can ever be on the same field is playing for different teams.
Flawed dude tried his best at performing and reforming but alas, no one picked him so he grabbed Rebel tour with both hands. Herbie should've followed Wynter n Co to the US; paid dearly for his love of country.
Re Manley- While supporting the ban he helped negotiate and made compromises re Jackman
Don't think is general anti-aparthied stand was convenience he was steeeped in it.Remember it was his dad who implemented the principle of Sanctions(circa '50's) that the world adopted re SA. Socialism and Democratic Socialism mind you did not fail Jamaica,instead Jamaica and Jamaicans failed Socialism. I have seen farmers who to this day sell mangoes, soursop etc to exporters all harvested from land and seedlings supplied by Manley. Yet, many more took the money bought beers the surplus of which was used to wash their motorbikes that were bought with Land Leease Seed Money. Many others were to greedy in taking guns and money to kill their brother. Perhaps their were instances where Manley could've taken a more moderate stance but Bev's recent interview gave us an insight on the pressure he was under to veer even further left.
When he came back as Mr Jacket n Tie it was because he knew what was at stake and how dire Blinds left us. He wrote an Oped in The Gleaner titled 'How Reagan Killed with A Smile' It was about a conference in Brazil when he tried to privateley convince Reagan on on the needs of 'Third World' countries re an economic breathing space. Reagan smiled and reiterated that the flood of Globalization and Liberalization was an unstoppable force that he'd ensure...all while smiling of course.
Our biases also played a big part in denouncing The Rebels. Sobers' one off double-wicket tourney in SA was hurriedly forgotten. Jimmy Cliff's concert got hardly a murmur in The Yard although UN almost sanctioned him. The Great Babu because a. we so love him b. He went after his test career and was getting a food to secure his family and c. many knew nothing about it didn't get any hurt. But whie being Yard's best ever coach Yard's countrymen were suffering on the street.
Let us not also forget that when Rousseau decided to honor all living WI cricketers Clive Lloyd made a concerted and successful effort to have Danny Germs found, cleaned up and be an attendee. It got him a chance to once again play for Kensington and get a lil coaching gig. Sadly already addicted the pull of the drug was too strong and within weeks he was back on the street.
Thanks, Brerzerk.
Thought I'd go berserk after you said "no one is completely right nor completely wrong" but the post developed solidly (and wittily too!), and informed quite a bit also.
First I'm hearing about "the only moment Big P was 'white'" (LOL) and I've only taken a guess as to who the flawed guy was, but I'll find out for sure. I suspect it's not who'd first come to mind.
--Æ.
In reply to JayMor
Danny Germs is The Flawed Guy but he ‘smuggled’ the stuff for “A Certain Individual” who by then was “Thev “Greatest” whose hook was also as devastating as “Smokin’ Joe”
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