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I'm buying a house and I noticed that a wall in the the basement was bowing slightly inward. I got a guy to come in who claimed he was a structural engineer but he was completely incompetent.
I should have known by the fact that he was charging less than half of everyone I called. Now I have to get someone else to come out It was a really stupid mistake on my part.I usually don't hire people I can't find out a lot about.

Anyone have experience with this sort of thing? There happens to be a pilaster where the bowing is but it appears to have been put in place when the house was originally built.

In reply to 1Desiabnu

In reply to 1Desiabnu

Dude you don't need a structural engineer on a home, they work buildings not home. A building inspector will suffice, obviously if you can visually see bowing, that's a problem, any house builder or contractor can tell you what the problem is and how costly it will be to fix.

Structural engineer, c'mon dude, you're wasting your time.

In reply to ToldUSo

I had a building inspector and he suggested getting a structural engineer. As far as I know, most General contractors don't have the proper training to assess structural/foundational issues.

The I'm talking to now charges 500$. But I'll gladly pay to find out now than further down the line when I have to fix it for 25k.

In reply to JOJO

In the states..
I know. It was dumb-I called an engineering company and this was the clown they sent.

In reply to 1Desiabnu

I don't know what kind of building inspector you had, a structural engineer, c'mon dude.

The only thing structural on a home is a bearing wall and the roof, the foundation is just a slab, if the ground is sinking then the slab could damage.

A good house builder could give you the answer.

In reply to 1Desiabnu


I am not a S Eng, but I have had my basement repaired before. Simple question is it a poured concrete basement wall or is it a cinder block wall. Cracks tend to occur with poured walls and bowing with cinder block.

In reply to Ninetenjack

The walls are stacked concrete cinder blocks. That part where the bowing is appears to be supported by a pour concrete pylaster(sp?).
The pylaster appears to have been put in when the house was built in 1971.they painted it 2 years ago and there appears to be no noticeable cracks so you're right.

In reply to 1Desiabnu



2 options to fix:

- fiber straps, will prevent further bowing from occurring. Only use this option if the bowing is minor

- Post and beam (possibly steel girders) if bowing is extreme. more expensive.

An experience contractor who has fixed basement walls should be able to tell the difference. In older houses and especially in winter climates basements settles then crack or bow, the weakest link which is the mortar between the cinder block is attacked first.

I prefer poured basement walls, they are easier to fix and the usally maintain their load bearing integrity even when they are leaking.

In reply to Ninetenjack

The bowing definately does appear to be on the minor side. However big problems do start small. Roughly how much is the first option? I also worry about resale value if I have these straps and other kinds of support.

The problem in hiring a contractor as opposed to a structural engineer is the conflict of interest thing. Contractors are probably going to say it needs to be repaired. It's difficult to argue with that at negotiations. I think a se would carry more weight.

I,'ll probably end up spending over 2k on various inspections for this house. Pool, home, electrician, engineer. The sellers are a bit upset and nervous that I'm doing all of this but I will give them the benefit of the doubt because they are old they also have a home purchase which probably depends on this.

I refuse to be the one to inherit a 50k problem. This 2k I consider money well spend.

In reply to 1Desiabnu

What is the fascination with old houses

Buy new or fairly new!!!

In reply to 1Desiabnu



carbon fiber straps are not expensive, but you will have to remove the pilaster. What is wierd is that a poured pilaster should offer some support, why the wall is bowing there as opposed to somewhere without a pilaster is a mystery.

One explanation for this could be that the pilaster was put in after the owner noticed the bowing. This oddly enough would actually be good news since if this was the case the bowing would have then been arrested.

In reply to Ninetenjack

That's actually an excellent point!.Thanks. These are not the original owners so they wouldn't know if it was put in when the home was built or some time later. It does make sense that they put it in after seeing the problem in which case that would be a good thing.

In reply to ToldUSo

Are you mad,of course he needs a structural engineer.

that's like saying you don't need an aircraft pilot to fly a chopper...

Steups a house is a damn structure too!!!!!

In reply to 1Desiabnu

Bro I can't tell you what to buy and why,caus I bought a couple places for many different reasons,but just make sure you know what you doing..

In reply to bravos

Fools All... Look at a different house...

In reply to 1Desiabnu


I should also mention that if there are no cracks between the wall and the pilaster, and the pilaster itself isn't cracked then this indicates stability.

Try this, ask the current owners how long they have lived there. If this is 5 to 10 years then this indicates that the pilaster is stable.

There are times when you need to go with your gut. I follow Warren Buffet's investment philosophy, "be fearful when everyone is fearless and fearless when everyone is fearful". The more people tell me something is a lousy investment the more I want to invest in it, and vice versa.

Best of Luck.

In reply to 1Desiabnu

If you haven't bought the house yet have the sellers fix it....or drop the purchase price by the cost of fixing it.

In reply to bravos

Is where the fork they get toldUdummy from?

Thanks for your input guys. I got a structural engineer coming out tomorrow but he don't come cheap. 500$

He s got really good ratings on angies list and he seems to know his stuff from the convo we had.

In reply to Ninetenjack

The current owners have been there 20 years and I do trade by the motto.

UPDATE

Thankfully, I was able to get a KICKASS SE that knows his shit to come out today. This guy is also an expert witness for the State and he was top of his class at Yale. There's 1.25-1.5 inch bow on both the back wall AND the front wall(which we didn't notice). He inspected every inch of the house and made drawings as he went through.

He said it's a major problem, and by his estimation, the walls would crumble within 2 years-3years tops. However, he said it's easily fixable with additional steel beams anchored to the slab and floor framing with steel straps going across. Without going over the measurements in detail, he estimated it to be around 20k. He said once those are put in, that should permanently fix the problem. Actually, carbon fiber is a better option but we won't say that

In reply to Larr Pullo

Man say he 'scientific'..

In reply to Larr Pullo

In reply to Bigzinc

Lol.

In reply to Desiabnu
The SE give you a solution, but in this case TUS is on the right track,and also Larro's advise to look for another house.
in a structural less than 5 stories an Architect can suffice. also a good contractor who is experience in structural defects would be the best option since he will performed the work as well as get all the approvals need for filing
The estimate of 20k seems high, get 3 estimates for review by the engineer.
you should ask the owner to pay for the cost or walk away.

Walls with severe structural damage will show additional horizontal cracks, shearing, and bowing as time progresses, and in some cases, the only way to repair the problem is to completely remove and rebuild the foundation wall.This process requires quite a bit of work, with the process beginning in your yard.  Before the foundation is excavated, the yard around your foundation must be removed.  This includes all landscaping such as gardens, steps, walkways, foliage, and everything else located along the foundation.  Then the foundation will be excavated, with the removed soil being laid in mounds around the house.  Temporary supports will be put in place as the foundation walls are removed and replaced.  When the job is completed, the landscaping and dirt can be returned.  A year later, this soil will settle and must be regraded

.In reply to 1Desiabnu

By the time you’ve begun to notice bowing or buckling in your basement walls, there’s a good chance that this situation has been present for a long time.  Bowing walls occur most often due to the force ofhydrostatic pressure.  Hydrostatic pressure occurs when water presses against the basement walls, causing the weight against the walls to exceed their capacity.  Walls can also bow and fail when expansive clays or frost cause expansion of the soils to fatigue and damage the wall.

Do you know if you have weeping pipes or tiles around your foundation?
Was a new driveway installed next to the bowing foundation?
Did a heavy piece of equipment like a bobcat drive next the foundation?

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan
most likely source is water damage over the years by seepage

In reply to tc1

How old is the house? You can go to the city planning office an get the plan and look at the structural cross section. See if you have weeping tiles.

Water laden dirt has alot of lateral pressure..this results in bowing

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan and tc1

You guys are correct. The pool in the back was built fairly close to the house and since they couldn't grade the patio to the pool, they graded it towards the house.

In reply to 1Desiabnu

Steel beams and carbon fiber are addressing the symtoms.
You are countering the force...you need to address the root cause....
I suspect water saturation. You can get a company to drill a plug sample 1 foot away from the wall. This will confirm the dirts condition, meaning water content.

In reply to 1Desiabnu

Ok...inground pool or above ground?
How far from the house?

Btw 1 cu ft of water is 62.4 pounds

In reply to tc1

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

In reply to 1Desiabnu

The inground pool at 10 feet is ok. The pool walls and botom is a structure and all the force in on the bottom of the pool. It exerts little or no force laterally. The saturation of water between the house and the pool is the isssue. The weakest link is the straight cinder block wall. The pool wall is a basin structure. Means self supporting

It is often used for water drainage near basement foundations as a part of basement 

b]In reply to 1Desiabnu[/b]

Check my link on weeping tiles above. The cross section shows weeping tiles adjacent to the foundation

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

the other thing the guy noted was that the cinder blocks were relatively small. They were around 6-7 inches.

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

very interesting re weeping tiles. One thing I noted in reading about it was that it could be connected to a sump pump which would then transfer the water out. There was a sump pump hole, but they never put it in because they said they've never had water in the basement.

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan
10' seems ok , it's within the line of influence

In reply to 1Desiabnu

In 1971....there were no weeping tiles....sump pump was the technology. It allowed water in via clay pipes to be pumped out.

Weeping tiles keep water out by channeling the water away..

A good way would be to excavate, install a water membrane on the out side wall. Weeping tiles and grading.

Strong arming the wall via steel beams is not a good way to go.
That will expose the next weakest point to be breach

b]In reply to 1Desiabnu[/b]


This what a basement wall should look like before backfill

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

very helpful info man. u know your stuff. The sellers got their own engineer and he also acknowledged the problem-although he didn't quite agree that it would collapse in 2-3 years. The more experienced people like u I talk to, the more I'm coming to realize that rebuilding both walls might be the best option in the long run.

Right now I'm getting contractors to give estimates. Once I have those, I will request that the owners reduce the price by that amount.

Here's an interesting update. The seller's had their own engineer come out and refute what mines said. In his report, the first thing I noted was that there were no measurements. He basically said,"there are no major structural issues at the present time. In the future, measure the deflection and if it changes, add several more pilasters at a cost of 800-1500 a piece-and oh btw, here are 2 guys I recommend for the job"

WTF!! THE WALL IS BOWED 1.5" ON BOTH SIDES!

I asked this guy to provide more information on his education and background. From what I can see online he's just a civil engineer. I also noted that he was from Basseterre-small world.

I'm starting to lose it!!

In reply to black

In reply to 1Desiabnu

Walk away dude....Never be afraid to walk away froom a deal....it is empowering...

In reply to Larr Pullo

Not afraid bro, I'm just giving these people a chance to be reasonable about the situation. It doesn't help that a bunch of hacks are confusing matters

In reply to 1Desiabnu



Get quotes to support the house and replace the wall.
do not get quotes to fix!! Any surprise after the deal is signed and you are holding the bag
Ask for a copy of the contractors insurance and verify it with the insurer.
Stay with professional companies. the severity of a failure here could be catastrophic on your finances

The price must be low enough to have some contingency spending.

also like larrpullo suggested, dont be afraid to walk away