Message Board Archives

Whatever respect Clive earned in his great playing days can evaporate- I hope not, but the whole world is looking at this idiotic selection of his and shaking their head in disappointment.

Martin Crowe writes:

"Young Jason Holder has been thrown a shocking hospital pass only weeks out. How Clive Lloyd thought a 23-year-old would manage his first hours as a new captain in the intense cauldron of a World Cup is beyond me. It makes no sense to have left out Dwayne Bravo, let alone as captain. All this upheaval makes it hard to think they have any hope, but funnier things have happened. If Chris Gayle or Marlon Samuels get in the right mood, they will be a cause for concern for any opponent. A massive if."

Link Text

In reply to Emir

I wonder how many others in the cricket fraternity thinks Lloyd is making some idiotic decisions.

WI cricket makes NO SENSE which is the same as NONSENSE.

Lloyd is like every other WICB manager, an ass kissing sellout. They haven't learn a thing from the Sammy Experiment. The biggest hurdle in WI Cricket is the WICB, fullstops.

In reply to granite

It may not be his fault. He is acting a bit senile of late.

Is they anyone we agree with?
I would like to see a coach with some balls, who will go further than Otis wanted to do, thats having his team.

In reply to openning The problem is not the coach, nor is it really Lloyd. The problem is the WICB and the skont they pull off every freaking year. Lloyds just going along with the program/gravy-train.

In reply to Kurt

I believe that your assessment is correct . . Perhaps Lloyd wants to be the President of the WICB . If that is his aim , I believe that strategy is wrong .

The Presidents of the Regional Boards are the persons with the most power in the WICB , not the President of the WICB ; who owes
his selection as President to them .

BTW Martin Crowe made a mistake , it was
those in the governance of Cricket in the Region who decided that Jason Holder be
selected as the Captain , and then informed Lloyd .

Allyuh Can bawl like wild cat Bravo and Pollard staying home

Let me ask a question! Do West Indies peeps similar to this guy interfere or interject into those peeps country selections? They make their iffy changes all the time and we dont care. When Saffies dropoed Klunser did WI interfere? Smith for Cronje? Drop Pollock? India drop Sehwag or any prior catains did WI object?

In reply to Dreama
When a comoany hires a manager you do realize he is not an Executive and has to follow orders from above. Or do you think managers can change things willy nilly without first getting their bosses aporoval?

In reply to eric365

Emir to Eric to Dreama. The only iteration missing is Pacy and oh tolduso

DJB is paying dearly for his assisine decision to pull out of d mindia tour. Mr Crowe should see d writings on d wall, done. However, lloyd n company should have waited after this cwc, then kik arses.
As d guyneez would say, we gwine start from fresh wid young fellas - less 30s!

In reply to BeatDball

If this is as some conspiracy as some say why wait after this WC snd reward them with the dollars there?
Might as well change now.

Sammy there to mentor Holder and take Pollard spot at swiping, Russell replaced Bravo, Cotterell replace oft injured Ravi, Gayle there cause theres no one else, Smith instead of Johnson Charles who frankly better than Fletcher, the rest Bravo Jr, Samuels, Roach, Taylor Benn, Ramdin are the same offenders and if he had less elbow grease so woulda Narine.

So basically two outa all the strikers changed and whose replacements doing the same job. Russell.just as expensive as Bravo taking wickets now, and Sammy just ss yoyoish as Pollard.

In reply to Scar

And your point. Stay with the message not the messenger. He is doing what he is paid to do make an analysis of the World Cup teams.

In reply to denoke

The mesdage? First hours as new captain in the ...WC? He has had 45 hours already and performed well with the ball. I guess if those 2 were there Gayle and Smith woulda bat better and Samuels wouldnt be so stupid when batting. Then Holder as cappo wouldnt matter

In reply to Emir

Whatever it may be, Dwayne Bravo and Kieron Pollard will go down among the most mediocre players to have represented West Indies. The by-products of an irresponsible and careless generation. Even Sri Lanka who were among the minnows 20 years back, have been consistently producing test quality players.

In reply to granite

So far, the vast majority in India's fraternity are peeved and bemused, others include:

Wasim Akram- Pakistan's great fast man
Many in the Australian fraternity, they are really peeved- including Chappelle, Lillie, Waugh
A couple in SL voiced their shock and dismay- Kumar and Matthews
Many in SF as well

In short, the WICB has replaced Pakistan Board as the laughing stock of the world and Clive Lloyd is feeling the effect as many of his peers around the world are not in speaking terms with him

WI cricket, not the WICB, is well liked globally, it is everyone's second team after their home team, it is why the world wants to see WI cricket prosper and they all see the cancer as the WICB.

All these "experts" who couldn't beat the WI on the playing field suddenly become experts on West Indian cricket. The funny thing is that West Indian people encourage the "eye-pass" by paying attention to outsiders with their own agendas. Do you really think that these people want to see WI cricket back to where it was? They undoubtedly want a competitive WI team to play against their countries but they sure as hell don't want them to dominate cricket again.

Every cricket board takes unpopular decisions which the majority of fans and media sometimes don't agree with but yet we don't see WI fans interjecting themselves into other boards business. Now every two-bit hack with a laptop in Australia, New Zealand, and India in particular, thinks they have a right to intrude in WI business.

When we West Indians ourselves don't respect the greats that took us to the top of the world and our own cricketing traditions, we can't then complain when we and our former players are disrespected in foreign media. Just because Martin Crowe's opinions currently coincide with those of Trinidadians he is now the new Oracle. It's pathetic how so many in the WI accept the condescension from any foreign idiot with a newspaper column as well-intentioned advice and are prepared to be complicit in the disrespect shown to them.

In reply to Emir

When WI cricket was prospering in the 1980's was this the case???

All the proposed and subsequently imposed rule changes were designed to negate the effect of the WI fast bowlers.We were routinely under a barrage of criticisms particularly from the English and backed by everybody else as to how we were killing the beautiful game with our surly,sullen fast bowlers.
Now we are getting our asses handed to us everybody loves WI cricket and has our best interest at heart.

In reply to Emir

The selection of Holder as Captain is just plain ridiculous---Show Pony is debatable but, for the headache that he has caused the WICB board no way he gets selected to represent the WI at the WC--

In reply to Dukes

I agree with you. While the fans loved WI, the press and past players routinely hammered our style of cricket. For 20 years we have been hearing that the World needs a strong WI team but the reality is that Eng, Aus, India and others are happy with the way things are.

For the record, Martin Crowe was no fan of WI, nor were the Kiwis as a whole.

In reply to openning

... he can only do so if backed by the board.

In reply to Scar... we didn't care cause they kept on winning. Maybe these guys really want to see a strong West Indies team?

In reply to armchair... seems the WICB is also happy with the way things are.

In reply to Dukes

You over analyze things. When WI were Kings, many wanted to see us fall, just like now, many of us wanted to see the Aussies and to aa lesser extent see the Indians fall- it is human nature to want the big strong lion of the jungle to get a butt licking sometimes.

Now that WI have been in the gutter for two 20 years, the World miss that quality, so yes,, while there were some trying to bring us down during the glory days, they have now come to miss a strong WI, as times have changed and cricket depends on a strong WI.

Secondly, the fans around the world- not former players or administrators, have always choose WI as their second team- 80% of the world's fans.

In reply to Emir

I'm sure he also got ripped when he employed the 4 prong!
Nothing.new here!

In reply to Emir

So far, the vast majority in India's fraternity are peeved and bemused, others include:

Wasim Akram- Pakistan's great fast man
Many in the Australian fraternity, they are really peeved- including Chappelle, Lillie, Waugh
A couple in SL voiced their shock and dismay- Kumar and Matthews
Many in SF as well

In short, the WICB has replaced Pakistan Board as the laughing stock of the world and Clive Lloyd is feeling the effect as many of his peers around the world are not in speaking terms with him

WI cricket, not the WICB, is well liked globally, it is everyone's second team after their home team, it is why the world wants to see WI cricket prosper and they all see the cancer as the WICB.

_______


All this over mediocre dwayne bravo??? You talking as if viv Richards was dropped, or Brian lara.

People not on talking terms with Lloyd? Over this?

Can you post some sources, please? And don't cite internal sources, as we all know they are wrong. A laa Chanders retirement and narine's withdrawal

It is the Culture that exists in the WICB that has brought Cricket in the Region to Rock Bottom .

Those in the administration , have never ever sought to forge a genuine relationship with
the Players , and that is big part of the problem .

Then there is this 19th century thinking , that those in the Administration are the Masters ; & the Players their Serfs , that Crap in this day & age aint going to work .
Telling Players that they cannot read was &
is very asinine .

When you are going to buy a House you engage the help of a Professional , not because you cannot read , but because you want professional advice . So that saying that Players cannot read is unadulterated
Crap .

So that when Players get their contracts , it is incumbent on them to get legal advise
, it aint about not being able to read. Those who claim that Players cannot read also have to seek legal advice , even when
they have achieved PHD's , Masters etc .

In reply to Emir

Boy, for someone who constantly makes false predictions 100%, I find it very hard to take you seriously. Clive Lloyd did not go into hibernation after teh team shake up. He met with everyone who wanted to question them and made his reasoning public.

Crowe is wrong to be asking for Bravo to be the leader after the India fiasco. Lloyd personally spoke to them to NOT abandon the tour.

After all of that, how can anyone expect Lloyd to have any trust in Bravo's leadership capabilities? A good leader does not act on things for personal reasons at all. And it is all clear from many sources that Bravo, Pollard and Sammy were the ring leaders in the decision to abandon the tour .

You guys should stop maligning Lloyd's name and accept the situation as a by product of asinine behavior from some of the players. EOS.

In reply to anandgb

Exactly, let him cite his source that these guys ARE NOT ON TALKING TERMS WITH CLIVE.

I don't believe him and his sources one bit.

Emir is making it sound as if viv Richards, gary sobers and Brian lara were dropped.

I've started a thread addressed to emir, asking for his sources

In reply to Superfly

That is true, but surely you understand the difference between "unpopular decisions" which makes sense and "unpopular decisions" which are foolish and makes no sense at all.

The problem is that the WICB is made up of people who constantly make nonsensical decisions that is quite evident to the entire cricketing world.

In that regard, it gives everyone in the cricketing world the need to comment on their stupidity.

In reply to anandgb

Cricket is big business now having evolved from Lloyd's period when it was played by semi-professional.

The players are the assets that drive revenue that is why they get rid of "management" first if things go wrong.

West Indies will remain bottom dwellers as long as the directors of WICB feel that they are more important than the revenue generators.

In reply to rubberd

First of all before Lloyd's time those cricketers were the consummate professionals. You have to be in the early 20s to think that these guys we have today are more professional.

Sobers, Kanhai, Lloyd et al. played with a lot of pride. I remember Garner saying the the loss to India in WC 83 was teh saddest day of his life. Today they lose and promptly start partying.

More professional you say? How so? for more than 3 years the WI ODI team with Bravo, Pollard etc, were constantly bowled out in less than 50 overs and you call them more professionals?


The players and The WICB are both substandard, the difference between then and now is the WICB was always a sorry bunch of individuals, but then the players were professionals who were determined to get the job done.

Bro you need to check that definition of professional

In reply to anandgb

Well handled!!! Nothing more to be said.

In reply to Scar

Let me ask a question! Do West Indies peeps similar to this guy interfere or interject into those peeps country selections? They make their iffy changes all the time and we dont care. When Saffies dropoed Klunser did WI interfere? Smith for Cronje? Drop Pollock? India drop Sehwag or any prior catains did WI object?

You're going to wait a long time for an answer.

I find it very interesting that Foreign Journalists , are doing the work that our Faux Journalists should be doing .

Worse yet are those in the Region being critical of those who are telling the truth . You really cannot make ths stuff up !!!

In reply to Emir

Boss, from the get go, people already knew going to Lloyd was a mistake. It didn't take this for some to know.

Anyhow, as much as VOR hate them prima donnas, he knows in a WC you need experience. Now is not the right time to drop them. Them guys not gonna strike during a WC, cause a massive pay day in store.

West Indies cricket problem is not just the board alone. The selectors, players, regional administrators all deserve some flack. One of the major problem is allowing plenty ill discipline into our youths so they are not trained the right way.

See where Yuvraj singh is, how long did his test career last? Yuvraj said he wish he had the drive to train like Kohli. Our cricketers just turn up to play. outside of the season, most of them do nothing. Sheer talent alone aint getting you there. Even Usain Bolt admitted that he had to work hard, not just talent alone, and Bolt with his talent alone could beat the majority of the world, but still gotta train hard or get left behind.

How long does shiv spend in the nets, how good is he? Roach is the only bit of the new bunch of players who look anywhere near as good to world class. Kraigg Brathwaite climbing there quickly, really impressed with him in SA. He is another determined cricketer.

In reply to anandgb

Dude, every time you make the case that the players were dropped for their behavior in India, you are maligning Clive as Lloyd has said for the record that they were dropped for performance reasons outlets with an emphasis on youth and not because of the debacle in India.

Funnily, there's those who are happy with the decision to leave Polly & Bravo out. And those who are against it. However, I am yet to hear from a single person who believes that Lloyd was telling the truth.

Dem pillars of trust as sound as pillars of salt.

In reply to Kurt

Dude, bravo was dropped because of the stunt he pulled off in India.

Proving victimisation is impossible, and bravo's performances weren't spectacular either, so the selectors gave their reasons.

You may choose to believe them or not, that's your call. But I really think you should get over it. All this bawling won't make bravo go to the WC

In reply to Kurt

Thank You, seems the defenders of Lloyd don't want to know this.

In reply to POINT

Exactly, those who are criticizing foreign journalists simply don't get it.

In reply to Kurt

Indiscipine is a valid reason . it is a part or merit.

Why can't you get it into your hard head?

In reply to Emir

See my response to Kurt above. Indiscipline is part of poor merit.

In reply to anandgb

I assume that by indiscipline you are referring to Bravo's part in the team withdrawing from the India tour?



It's amazing how far you will try and turn black into white to justify your position. Thatis dishonorable and I expect better from you. Let me point out what PM Gonsalves said:



So the WICB gave a solemn undertaking that any "indiscipline" in India would be specifically a non-factor when it came to picking the team. So if you say that Lloyd used that "indiscipline" as a reason for excluding Bravo & Pollard at least accept that this was in direct contravention of what was agreed to beforehand, and witnessed by the players and 2 PMs.

Be a man: Admit that Bravo and Polly were left out because of their role in events in India, and that omission broke the agreement in place. You keep saying this in a round about way but won't be man enough to come out and say it in plain english. Admit that Lloyd, well aware of the "non-victimization" agreement couldn't come out and admit that he violated that egreement, and so he had to "mislead" as to the reasons for their exclusion.

I can respect someone who believes that Bravo & Polly should have been excluded, what i can't respect is the repeated repetition that black is in fact white!

In reply to Kurt

Well said man. You are clear as day light, but you know what, they still wouldn't get it, their hatred for the players and colonial mentality prevents them from being wise to the truth.