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dais true?

Ah hearing nuff tings...and dat Simmons gawn tru de edders....jes so...cause he openly call out Cameron for interference...


dais true?

In reply to powen001


Phil Simmons not happy with ODI squad

In reply to powen001

Well I did warn Phil ,in this very Forum , that because he was in a superior position regarding his Contract , he needed to ensure that
he gets most of what he wanted .

Let me say again , Phil had a good job , and had much more power than he currently has . So if what you have stated is true , Phil has lost my respect as being a good Negotiator .

In reply to POINT

But he is standing up and not being a yes man to the destroyer Lloyd. It is all we ever wanted from a coach and decision maker.

Phil know the masses in the entire region is behind him, so he has and must continue to call them out and take an independent stand. He works for WI cricket, not the WICB.

In reply to powen001

Can the board afford to fire Simmons?

In reply to nick2020

A wonder if his contract similar to gibbo and dey hadda buy it out?

In reply to Emir


The point I am making is that if anyone
can over rule what he wants , then in my opinion he made a very serious mistake .

My take is that the WICB needed
Simmons a Hell of a lot more than he
needed the WICB . Simmons did wonders for Ireland , and I believe that had he stayed , he would have been able to not only get anything he wanted ,
but NO ONE could over rule what he wanted .

This is why I will always be in favour of having One Entity in the governance of Cricket in the Region ,
but having 2 Departments , a Cricket
Department run by former great Players ,

WHO WOULD BE IN CHARGE OF

EVERYTHING PERTAINING TO CRICKET .

WITH ABSOLUTELY NO INTERFERENCE .


The other Department would be the Administrative Department , Staffed with the Regular Compliment of People , President ; VP ; Treasurer Asst. Treasurer ; Secretary ; Asst. Secretary ; A Legal Team ; & a PRO Team .

The head of the Cricket Department ;or his Deputy , will attend All Meetings of the Administrative Department .

This Micromanaging B.S must be stopped . But as I stated , Simmons
if he is over ruled regarding anything to do with Cricket , has only himself to blame .

In reply to nick2020

dont think so...but we are dealing with a creature of a new manifestation...


ah hear bout how he ...de baass man was seen speaking to "staff and ting"...not pretty when this creature is criticized or opposed...especially openly...

ah hear so...

people holding down dem heads an ting...and de flag apparently does not buy you favor wid him...but loyalty to him and him alone does...

surely this is an episode of the twilight zone...and when I wake up..Lara will only now be retiring cause he Tired physically and not mentally...

strange tings happening nick...and none of it lines up with principles we know bout.

In reply to POINT

Phil...has called out his boss...so I will take my time and re read your post...cause my gut reaction like Emir is to say that Phil speaking out..how wise is that on the eve of a tour ...ah dont know...but surely..Cammy can get under ppl skin in a bad way and this is not bout de players THIS time...

so ah hear....ppl does tell lies ...I dont believe it yet...but this fella that walk in my office today all flustered dont tell me lies...until now perhaps.

In reply to POINT

In reply to powen001

All hell about to brek loose...just left the hotel and things bout dey chilly and yuh know how hot Barbados is..........will gih you a call lil later.......

In reply to powen001

Look , I hate belabouring the point that from my perspective , Simmons was in a position in Ireland to call ALL the Shots . I would venture to suggest that He could have had the Job in Ireland for Life , and even get a Pension .

Now I am of the view that , in his negotiations with the WICB , he had the upper hand , because of the following , facts .

Our Players & Team are currently below the standard of International Cricket . The RECKLESS BEHAVIOUR of the WICB with regard to the India Saga , and the potential Lawsuit by
the WICB is still over the heads of those in the WICB like the Sword of Damocles .

ALL this , in my opinion , made the WICB , in a weaker position as compared to that of Simmons . So that
if it is true that Simmons is being overruled , then my take is that he
was not only a bad Negotiator ; but has NO ONE TO BLAME BUT HIMSELF .

In reply to powen001

In reply to Narper



X files and ting.

In reply to cherri



all for now.

In reply to powen001

Who are the voting members of the selection committee?

Brung
Walsh
Big Pussy
Big Phil

That's 4...

Who is the 5th columnist?
Holder has a vote?

In reply to FanAttick

Phil should be safe. The WICB cannot want to be on the hook for two former coach salaries plus a new one.

In reply to Commie

I like your word SHOULD.


drip drip drip.

In reply to FanAttick

I honestly dont know...some things that Lara had..Sammy didnt even think he needed ...and now..I cant swear as to what the new contract looks like power wise for picking Captains picks...

pick sense

In reply to FanAttick

Pybus

now I heard and seen Phil for myself..
He has blatantly called the bass man an interference ...

Holder did not have a vote in the team and Cammy Cams is waaay to involved at this level..

he said that both He and Lloyd supported Bravo and Polly being back but they were out voted 3-2 on all occasions....in spite of Lloyds brilliant pleas and case for both of them being back into the squad.


clearly...these men aint bout winning a ting...just bein in charge.

shoe drop.

In reply to imusic

Ok. Thanks.

In reply to powen001

In reply to powen001

Well I have stated all along that the people in the WICB do not give a damn about the Players ; the Standard of Cricket in the Region , and the status of Our Team in International Cricket .

I am told that people laugh at what I write , but I bet they aint laughing now . But it aint the WCB alone that are the guilty people . Many of the
Sacred Scribes must come in for condemnation .

They by not being very critical , have allowed those in the WICB to become akin to Ogres . If they really cared about Cricket , they would have been highly critical of those in the governance of Cricket in the Region .

But their Individual & Collective silence , have made them the Stooges
of those in the governance of Cricket in the Region .

But I digressed , knowing how the people in the WICB are , Phil Simmons had an obligation to state in writing
exactly what he wanted in his Contract ,in crystal clear & unambiguous language , run it by a Lawyer , and then present it to the WICB .

I will insist that I am of the opinion that Simmons had more cards than the WICB , therefore if he is now being overruled , it is his fault , I hope that if everything goes South , Ireland will welcome him back .
What is in writing has more power & weight than word of mouth . Simmons should know that , If what I am reading here is true , Simmons is a
disappointment .

Perhaps he can talk to the Regional Governments , but then the International Cricket Cabal will as usual talk about Governments must not intervene in Cricket .

Cameron is now possibly the most powerful President the WICB has ever had ; because he is possibly the De facto President of the Jamaica Cricket Board . In essence , he may be wearing two hats .

The Coup that he & Hinds engineered that made WIPA a branch of the WICB ,
despite the Recklessness of the India Saga ; has made Cameron the biggest Emperor in the WICB .

ANY HOPE OF HAVING STRUCTURAL CHANGES

IN CRICKET IS OUT THE WINDOW ,

POSSIBLY FOREVER .

In reply to jacksprat

Yes, but Jamaican Dave took it to another level

In reply to powen001

I recall that in one of his Elections for the US Presidency ; Obama was asked
what would he take to a Knife Fight ,
Obama replied a Gun .

It seems to me that Phil Simmons took
a Pop gun to his negotiations regarding his Contract . Now it aint that Phil aint know who he is dealing with ; that is the sad part of this Story .

In reply to jacksprat

tc1 is correct this creature is on another level.


Now we shall see how it goes from here...

In reply to POINT



At best you are saying that Phil was Naive into thinking that things would have been more...accommodating..

Phil used the phrase...not professional in describing what he was up against....

spare a thought for these former players all having one thing in common...

A deep tug to serve at some level to help WI cricket...

the board..not so much.

In reply to FanAttick

The 5th selector is Eldine Baptise

In reply to openning

The voting selector

You think any of them can out vote Pybus?

You more naive than I thought

Is this the same Dave Cameron who did unspeakable things to a dead pig?

In reply to powen001

YES , Phil was indeed naive , frankly
there was absolutely no reason why he should have been naive .

That is why in this very Forum , I stated prior to the 2007 World Cup , the Regional Governments should have
had the WICB sign a legally binding document stating that in exchange for
helping the WICB host the 2007 World Cup , the WICB would have serious Structural Changes .
they were
That was feasible , because the Regional Governments had most of the cards , but like Simmons , they did no such thing , the WICB got all that it wanted , and in exchange the Regional Governments got NOTHING FROM THE WICB .

Simmons , apparently failed to realize , like the Regional Governments ; that they were dealing
with Slippery People .

In reply to mikesiva

In reply to mikesiva

Are You implying that he is forever tarred with the Stench of the Pig ??

In reply to POINT

Point..
I am convinced that this leader supreme...has been getting his way...look at the bodies in his wake...WIPA, STAR power players and a willing majority of Board members and affiliates to do his bidding and further buttress his power.

Just now we will hear rumors about adjusting of constitution where his powers, like the Emperor in Star Wars is allowed to do as he will because he is quelling all opposition.

To heck with WI Cricket...that died long time.


Or so it would seem.

In reply to tc1

In reply to powen001

The Truth is that Cameron is currently wearing 2 Hats , the President of the WICB & the Co President of the Jamaica Cricket Board . This is a first in the Annals of the WICB . It would not surprise me if he is getting paid for
these two Jobs .

As you correctly pointed out , Like
the Lone Ranger & Tonto , Cameron & his Sidekick , Hinds , threw out the Black Sheep , Rounded up the other Sheep and placed them in the WICB Corral .

In reply to johndom90

In reply to Commie

Absolutely--

Why would a coach mourn the non-selection of two players that add nothing but baggage to his team?

In reply to buds

Maybe I'm not understanding this properly. But if they got outvoted 2-3 isn't that the way it works, the majority wins? Why would he come out and even mention it if that is how the selection process works? Or am I not getting it?

If he blames outside influences, what does that really mean? Were the three instructed to vote a certain way? Does he have a problem with the way the selectors voted or the way the system works?

In reply to spider

And that Spider..in all fairness is a valid question


It was a democratic process ...and further...He said that he and Lloyd voted one way and everyone else another...


inside stuff not normally discussed so openly...the result of which ...on the eve of the match away from home...seems off-key.


clearly...the honeymoon is over and Phil realizes that this dragon has teeth.....


OR

The panel had agreed to pick a winning team UNTIL Cams and his outside influence self infiltrate the selection team and upset the applecart by picking off the weak members..

just speculation of course...like Commie said...a small peep amidst a barrel full o noise.

In reply to johndom90

that Sir...is true in my neck of the woods too...

In reply to johndom90

That is simply a product of a fickle changing audience and a losing team.

When WI won the T20 WC and when WI in fact beat England in the test earlier this year, fans came forth like moths to light.

It is what it is.

In reply to johndom90

Everyone who has those brilliant ideas forget two very basic things.

Terror isn't a location attribute its a security one.

The Caribbean has some of the weakest security infrastructure in the world. Why would you want to expose and compromise that ?

Secondly Test series depends on a marriage between TV rights and cost of production. We feature some of the highest TV production costs in the world unless we station all the games for any series in one territory.

Coming back to your main gripe you cannot sell a mediocre product to an audience who are notoriously fickle.

So you have to improve the product. Neither Pollard or Bravo are new to WI Cricket and neither have shown any ability to improve the product that is WI Cricket.

Neither have been at the fore of a ranking improvement or any winning streak. So therefore this public whining by the coach about a system he signed up for and used is likely posturing.

In reply to powen001

But if what he's describing is the normal selection process him must either resign, if him don't think him can live with that team, or shut him rass. If his side was defeated 2-3 then him still expect to get those players? Him expect his vote to count as more than one or something?

In reply to Commie

My concern and attention is not on Pollard and Bravo, or Trini wanting Trini, but rather the institution that is/was WI cricket.

Your answer about exposing the region to terrorism by inviting Pakistan/Sri Lanka etc...is in the ball park of WICB thinking - cannot be done.... a Stanford or Shah Rukh Khan must come and do it for us.No machinery exists to undertake international promotions as I mentioned....and quite frankly WI business reputation/acumen sucks right now as pertains to anything cricket.


Ok....lets make it simpler. WICB had a mandate to develop/nurse cricket in the western hemisphere. One of
those lofty ICC goals. How did that go? developing the US/Canada market! Administration come and administration go, nothing.The only terror threat in working this market is that Uncle Sam may want to trump up money laundering charges on somebody someday.

If I'm correct, the Kiwis had some initiative in the US but it petered out somewhere!!

Whither West Indies?

In reply to Commie

you contradict yourself Commie.

you put the tv rights and marketing up as valid reasons for the shift in income focus...

yet...two of the most marketable players in Bravo and Pollard are being kept out...according to you...for the right(s) reasons.

Aint the same Audience more likely to tune in and spend money when they see recognizable names...built within the CPL money coffers...ergo...that Audiences dollars and Attention?

Lets get down to Brass tacks and keep it simple.

Bravo and Pollard are being blocked from playing as a direct result of the abandoned Tour to India.

lets cut the fluff and call it what it is...victims and punishment.

In reply to spider

The fact that the majority wins does not necessarily mean that the Majority's thinking and beliefs are
correct .

It is very possible , that the decision of the majority , may turnout to be wrong , Time will in due course inform us all .

Now Regarding Pybus , I have no idea what is his role in this scenario . But based on pass experiences which I
shall elaborate , I do not believe that WE should involve persons , especially Englishmen in Our Cricket .
Many may have forgotten , but I recall that WE had the fastest Bowlers in the World when it was decided to introduce the 1 Bouncer Rule in Cricket . That was not a frigging accident .

When England decided to limit the number of Overseas Players playing Cricket in England , that was also not an accident ; That was aimed mainly at Our Players , Sure Players
from other Cricket Playing Countries
were affected .

But My take is that they were merely collateral damage , The limitations
on Overseas players was aimed mainly at Our Players . Obviously the ECB knew that placing a limitation on Overseas Players overtime would affect not only the standard of Cricket in this Region , but the competitiveness of our Team Internationally .

True this did not happen over night , but these days WE are experiencing the effects of the decision by the ECB .

MAKE NO MISTAKE ,THIS HAPPENED

BECAUSE THE WICB LACKED FORESIGHT AND

VISION ; SADLY THE PEOPLE IN THE WICB

IN MY OPINION ,STILL LACK FORESIGHT &

VISION .

In reply to powen001

In reply to POINT

I am going to try and get a link to you POINT...none other than Sir Hilary Beckles...speaking on the woe that has befallen the Businessman in Barbados....and to wit the Black Businessman and his struggles...for some reason as I read your last post I saw some glaring similarities in his speech...hopefully it captures your interest long enough for you to glean what I am saying.


Sir Hilary Beckles

I will post in the backroom...

In reply to spider

My advice...on MB...when Phil was being courted was to stay right dey in scotland.
Refuse the poison chalice that is West Indies cricket and aim for maybe something across
the border in ENgland, but no..... he had to leff the snow and come back to the heat.

In reply to johndom90

but yuh know that is the Irony...


one camp can see plenty to laugh at based on Cricket stats for those two...and yet...for the entertainment value ..they earn more and garner more pull than several "better averaging players".

Go figure.

The Sacred Scribes in the Region will never utter a word about the lack of Foresight & Vision of those in the WICB , They prefer instead to place all the
blame on the Players .

Let me hasten to state this , I do not blame ECB for its actions , it is the
underhand method that they used that I despise . It surely aint easy , to
have many West Indian Players earning a living playing Cricket in England , and then in International matches , whipping the English Team .

I cite this , because it is playing
Professional Cricket in England that propelled our Players & Team to be the best in the World ; and ushered in the Golden Eras of West Indies Cricket .

In my opinion , the WICB cannot cite ; or point to any innovation , or thing that it did that was responsible for Golden Eras of West Indies Cricket .

My belief is that to this very day , the people in the WICB are still unaware of the fact that :

CRICKET IS A VERY SERIOUS BUSINESS

THAT DEMANDS THAT THE BUSINESS OF

CRICKET BE TAKEN VERY SERIOUSLY .

So here WE are drifting along , possibly hoping for miracles that aint going to come or happen .

Meanwhile the Members of the WICB , reject all recommendations that call
for serious Structural changes . I guess when WE are placed in Tier 2 ,
it is possible that they may see the light , but I aint about to hold my breath .

In reply to POINT

Of course the majority don't have to be right. The majority is often wrong. But that is the system the selectors use, and Simmons would be aware of it. So unless he is saying WICB threatened or somehow forced the three selectors to vote the way they did then Simmons don't have any argument.

In reply to spider

All Simmons saying is that it make no...so and so sense...and he saying it loudly.

He is about cricket...full stop.

In reply to johndom90
The man is the HC, met with these players a month ago.
Give him the players, for christ sake.

In reply to openning


The implanted plantocracy rules...not ah damn dog bark....the man is 'out and bad'

In reply to johndom90

The other selectors, I believe, are Walsh, Butts and Browne. They not about cricket? I don't know why they didn't vote for Bravo and Pollard but that is the selection process that the selectors have to live by. It kinda unfair for Simmons to be saying these men allowed outside people to influence their choices and not to even mention which outside people him talking. How should the other selectors feel about that?

West indies cricket will go no where once they continue to select Bravo, Pollard, Sammy, Russell in an xi. All through the history of ODI cricket, all the dominate teams have AT LEAST 4 specialist bowlers. I don't see the fuss fighting over Pollard. Bravo yes but Pollard? Big loud damn stewpsssss

In reply to spider
Baptiste is the selector, not Butts

In reply to jen
What has that to do, with a new coach after meeting with players, want to select them?
Do you want the HR to send you employees or do you want to be part of the interviewing and the hiring process?

In reply to openning

Thanks for the correction.

In reply to powen001

In reply to openning

It's all about balance. Cricket has shown that the best ODI teams are balanced and made up of specialist players. Most team have 5 specialist batsmen, a wk keeper who can bat, 2 all rounders at most, 1 of whom must be a bowler first and fore most and the other 3 guys specialist bowlers. Essentially you will have 7 competent batsmen and at least 5 competent bowler. Bravo, Pollard, Sammy, Russell cannot afford us that so this is why I say, if you fighting for them all, you really don't want to build a balance squad.

WIthout a doubt the best ODI teams i've seen are Australia and India (i'm young so no 80's and before stuff). Australia had Gilchrist, Hayden, Ponting, Clarke, Martyn, Symonds, Hussey, Lee/Kasprowicz, McGrath, Gillespie, Warne.

India Tendulkar, Sehwag, Gambhir, Yuvraj, Raina, Dhoni another batsman whoever in form and the bowlers. Lately they going with 6 batsmen, Jadeja, Ashwin spinning all rounders and 3 other bowlers.

Australia started the World cup batting Mitchell Marsh at #8. When they dropped the extra batsman, they start look better. False sense of security my friend. Cricket is a funny game.

NZ lately playing with Guptil, McCullum, Williamson, Taylor, Elliot, Anderson, Ronchi, McCullum, Southee, Boult, Milne.

Australia current team is Warner, Finch, Smith, Bailey, Maxwell, Watson/Marsh, Wade, Faulkner, 3 other bowlers

See the balance of them squads? When you have bits and pieces players within your #5, you know your squad need help!

West Indies need to introduce Kraigg Brathwaite into the ODI mix. The team need stability + his scoring rate has pick up. It doesn't matter even if he scores with a strike rate of 70 cause everyone else bats fast. They just need someone who can score runs and ensure the team aint out down before all the overs out.

Brathwaite, J Charles, Samuels, Darren Bravo, Simmons, Bravo Snr, Ramdin, Holder, Narine, Taylor, Rampaul. That would be my xi with everyone available. I'm a huge fan of Sammy late order hitting and the dynamism of Andre Russell but cricket is cricket. All of them in the xi just reducing chances of winning. If Holder wasn't doing well then Russell could be at 8 but the way Holder playing right now, especially his batting, he plays.

I personally don't like the selectors thing. It is deadwood.

You have scouts and then you have a HC who should run his team.

Maybe the next coach will get that luxury.

In reply to jen

You post implies that you have a problem differentiating between a touring squad and a playing XI.

Sammy, Bravo, Pollard and Russell ought to be on any ODI squad at this time. A final XI most often would not include more than two of them at a time. However, having them all on tour allows for flexibility of selection.

ODI cricket is not only about batting and bowling. We often overlook the importance of the runs saved, the impossible catches taken, and the intimidation factor of an imposing fielder adds. I am surprised that you ignored those nuances seeing that you play cricket. Besides their other cricketing abilities, the aforementioned 4 bring those qualities to a WIndian squad better than any other cricketers in the Caribbean at the moment.

Trust me when I say, Phil Simmons is no dummy. He would not call out external interference if it did not occur. The selectors are supposed to be independent and strong enough to make decisions based on their knowledge of the cricketing pool at their disposal. If, as we were led to believe, the cricketers were not to be penalized for the Indian fiasco, then why are people outside of the selection body influencing selection decisions?

In reply to Wally-1

powen001

Some People love the idea of defending the indefensible . That is their Right,
My take as you have pointed out the
Supreme Emperor of the WICB is in violation of what was stated to the
Prime Minister of SVG , Gonsalves .

But then Gonsalves is only a lowly
Prime Minister , in comparison to the
Supreme Emperor of the WICB , Emperor
Cameron . It is reported that Emperor Nero Fiddled while Rome burnt .

We are awaiting what Emperor Cameron will do when Cricket in the Region comes to a standstill . I am sure that Sponsors in & outside the Region are watching every move of Emperor Cameron .

I do not believe that any Sponsor is going to be Gung Ho with the idea of
Emperor Cameron delving into the selection of Players . But then Emperor Cameron has his Lemmings in this very Forum .

In reply to powen001

Thanks for the Link , Re : Beckles .I
will look at it . Once again Thanks .

In reply to johndom90

YOU have stated something that is ultra significant ; that I have stated many times in this Forum :

FOR MANY YEARS NOW , THE PEOPLE IN

THE WICB HAVE BEEN AND ARE STEEPED

IN 19TH CENTURY THINKING .

An Era when there were Masters & Servants . Sadly this thinking has
permeated every fiber of all those in the governance of Cricket in the Region .

My take is that the WICB & the Supreme Emperor Cameron relish angering & humiliating the Players .
It is that Asinine Mentality why they are being sued by the BCCI for 42 million dollars .

But as WE are now fully aware , that has not daunted the Supreme Emperor
Cameron . All I can say is that :

" FOOLS RUSH IN WHERE ANGELS

FEAR TO TREAD " .

But as it is often stated in the Region :

" TIME LONGER THAN TWINE ".

In reply to cricket_jumbie

even by having all of them in your squad you selling yoself short. What happen if a batsman or fast bowler gets injured on tour? There can't be room for all of them. Holder and Bravo is all ready the 2 all rounder. Russell is closer to a batsman and bowler so would get my nod as the reserve.

Brathwaite, Charles, Samuels, Lil B, Simmo, Big B, Ramdin, Holder, Narine, Rampaul, Taylor
Roach, Russell, Bishoo, Another batsman

Don't that look more balance than having Russell, Sammy, Pollard on the bench + another. It means you missing two of either a batsman/spinner/fast bowler.

You know Pakistan batting is a load of bullocks right, but why do they still win some matches more than us? Is cause them bowling attack powerful.