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HEADLINE: West Indies losing an unfair game

 
CaribbeanCricket.com 2016-01-01 07:11:08 

To misquote Bill Woodfull: there are two teams out there, one is playing cricket for good money and the other is not. ESPNcricinfo can reveal the vast pay imbalance between the Australian and West Indies teams taking part in the New Year's Test at the SCG, a divide emblematic of the way the Caribbean side has been emasculated by reduced ICC funding, competing regional demands, poor incentives for players and the lure of Twenty20.

In a comparison between this summer's three Test-match combatants, the West Indies players come out a long way behind their Australian counterparts. They are even comfortably shaded by those of New Zealand, a cricket economy of comparable size, with similar issues about how T20 tournaments have afforded opportunities for far greater earnings away from international competition.

Australia's cricketers speak often of their love for the baggy green, and how Test cricket is always their No. 1 priority. However this idealism is backed up by the hard truth that it is still more lucrative to be a top-tier Australian Test cricketer than anything else. As the former captain Michael Clarke once said: "Governing bodies must prioritise player performance and payment in Test cricket."


Full Story

 
mikesiva 2016-01-01 07:15:22 

Test match fees and retainers this summer
Australia

Match fee - Aus $15,450 (overseas Tests Aus $21,631)

Contract retainer - 18 contracted players plus incremental earners

Top contract approx Aus $1.5 million, bottom approx Aus $250,000

New Zealand

Match fee - NZ $8,500

Contract retainer - 20 contracted players

Top contract NZ $200,000, going down by NZ $7,000 increments to bottom contract NZ $82,000

West Indies

Match fee - US $5,000

Contract retainer - 12 contracted players

Three contract tiers with category A US $140,000, category B US $120,000, category C US $100,000

"as the likes of Chris Gayle, Andre Russell, Dwayne Bravo and Lendl Simmons earn anywhere between Aus $65,000 (US $47,300 approx) and $120,000 (US $87,300 approx) for six weeks' work in the Big Bash League, the West Indies Test players are paid relatively meagre sums. Match fees were slashed from US $17,500 to $5,000 in 2014 as a result of an agreement between WIPA and the WICB that led to a mass walkout from that year's tour of India."


Where are the posters who were telling us how well paid our guys are?

 
laynew 2016-01-01 11:31:02 

In reply to mikesiva

It's all relative isn't it? On the assumption of 10 test matches per year, then that is a minimum of $150K US per year..

Tell me how many people make that in 1 year or even 5 years in the Wesr Indies.

Look I am all for paying the players what they deserve, and God knows the WICB bandits more than likely take the lion share, but $150K per year is a lot for the rubbish cricket we are playing.

To be honest, I think they are well paid. If I was paid anywhere near that much and performed at thier level I wouldn't keep my job!!!

 
camos 2016-01-01 12:17:34 

In reply to laynew

Tell me how many people make that in 1 year or even 5 years in the Wesr ,Indies.



most people will work for 35 years at least,how may player will play for WI for 10 years?

 
googly1961 2016-01-01 13:35:03 

Simple economics 101. Supply and demand. Players go and play where they will be paid the most. Factor in the atrocious employee/employer relationship and lack of trust and we get what we get.

 
Scar 2016-01-01 15:44:18 

In reply to camos

10 years times,$150,000=?
5 years times $120,000 =?
And thats not a 12 month year with travel and hotel and sight seeing in other countries to boot!


The average caribbean pay $10,000 x35 = ?

And thats a 12 month 8anm to 4pm a day year

BTW people do get fired from those common jobs fairly often and laid off for no fault of theirs.

Lets leave it at that

 
Babylon 2016-01-01 16:03:47 

In reply to Scar

Game set and fcuking match

 
uton 2016-01-01 16:06:19 

In reply to laynew


It's all relative isn't it? On the assumption of 10 test matches per year, then that is a minimum of $150K US per year..

Tell me how many people make that in 1 year or even 5 years in the Wesr Indies.


Most professionals can expect a career spanning 40 years or more, what is the career span of the average West Indies test match player ? Maybe 10 years max unless that person is exceptional and in the top rung such as Shiv or Gayle.

How many WI cricketers that reach the elite level have other career prospects and can easily start over without substantial retraining in another field ?

Look I am all for paying the players what they deserve, and God knows the WICB bandits more than likely take the lion share, but $150K per year is a lot for the rubbish cricket we are playing.


Who provides the environment that produces "rubbish cricketers" ? Is the reason that WI are an uncompetitive lot due to the desire of the players to underperform or due to the inability of the WICB to produce a competitive and attractive product ?

To be honest, I think they are well paid. If I was paid anywhere near that much and performed at thier level I wouldn't keep my job!!!


Do you work in a competitive environment wherein your competitors are better prepared, funded and better supported than you are ?

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2016-01-01 16:13:25 

In reply to camos

A cricketer retires after 10 to 20 years but that's not the end of his life. He is still only 40 max. and able bodied. He can still start another career or better yet open his own business.

So this 10 year life span is a myth

 
imusic 2016-01-01 16:26:24 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

So this 10 year life span is a myth

That 10 year llife span is what the individual is best at. They've trained to be the best they can be in that profession.

Yes...they can go on to another profession once they retire....but they're unlikely to be anywhere near as good, proficient, or at the top of their field as they were in their chosen profession.

In order to be among the best, sacrifices have to be made. Training isn't easy. It may SEEM glamorous to the onlooker....the fan who in theory would give their right arm to trade places. But the reality is often far different.

Endless physical training routines. 6 am runs. Diet. Constantly dealing with failure. Public criticism. If a player is dropped, many don't get paid. Not seeing family for months at a time. Living out of a suitcase. These are just some of the realities of the pro athlete.

Many have entire families dependent on them for their upkeep. The responsibility is tremendous. Many don't know how to cope with success.

Of course they need to maximize their prime earning years. And you just hope they're smart with whatever $ they make and learn from the mistakes of others.

But to say the 10 year life span is a myth is betraying some significant ignorance. Or deception.

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2016-01-01 16:33:30 

In reply to imusic

How is that different from the IT pro who trained and got certified then gets laid off because of a recession? Doesn't he have family too?

He can get a job at chefette too flipping burgers. But that's not what he burned the midnight oil for and of course his earnings will be diminished.

So where's the difference?

 
imusic 2016-01-01 16:37:13 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Should the IT pro have maximized his/her earnings while he/she had the IT job?

 
rhatid 2016-01-01 16:39:22 

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com
People should be paid what they're worth. And what they're worth is seen in their performance on the job. To compare West Indian cricketers to Australian cricketers is like comparing primary school boys to university graduates. If West Indies players want to be paid more, they need to improve their performance, attitude and pride. Just compare their approach to the game to that of the Australians. Right now, the way the West Indians are playing, I would say they are overpaid. And until they begin to play the game like serious professionals, they should not be expected to be paid like serious professionals. They need to emulate the Australians, the English, the Indians, the Sri Lankans, the South Africans etc. if they want to be taken as seriously as those cricketers are.

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2016-01-01 16:40:10 

In reply to imusic

Yes I assumed he did and I have no problem with a cricketer doing the same

 
sudden 2016-01-01 17:02:48 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Correct Fuzz. This is another non truism that is bruited about. Players must maximize their earning becos their playing days are short. Pure Shoite that. A lawyer, an accountant, a shopkeeper days are short too. That is why people prepare. I just don't buy that crap. Man everyone should maximize their potential, it is not exclusive to sportspersons

 
imusic 2016-01-01 17:08:56 

In reply to sudden

What's the expected career span of a lawyer....say someone starting at 25?

Omit the variables of recession, ill health etc for now. What would the expected career span of that lawyer, accountant, shopkeeper be? 40 years?

Compare that to the expected career span of the pro athlete. Again omitting variables such as injury, loss of form etc. 10 years?

You're right....everyone should maximize their earning potential. But it is FACT...UNDENIABLE....all things being equal as far as that can be....that athletes have far shorter career life spans than most others.

 
Scar 2016-01-01 17:15:53 

In reply to imusic

To maximize your earnings dont you have to prove your worth? I came out of school at 20 not earning half as much of what I did 12 years later.

If you say that in most other more developed Sports countries there are many other than sports opportunities for retirees I would agree with you.
Having said that those who say Sponsorship also creates another monetory avenue for both players and WICB better realize the WI market is not a lucrative one as the billion dollar ones in OZ England, India etc. for reasons I dont need to mention

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2016-01-01 17:16:30 

In reply to imusic

As POINT would say you fail to accept that sports people can and do have a life after sports and can be anything they want to be. Some became government ministers. They don't have to put their foot up at 40 whilst we have to go to 70.

 
sudden 2016-01-01 17:17:32 

In reply to imusic

There are no more expected career life spans given the fluidity of this global economy. Today you are working today you are outsourced. You have to reinvent yourself quite often.

 
imusic 2016-01-01 17:22:13 

In reply to Scar

To maximize your earnings dont you have to prove your worth?

Messrs Gayle, Bravo, Pollard, Russell, Simmons, Cooper, Sammy, Badree, Narine, Dwayne Smith, Fidel Edwards, even Rampaul to some extent are evidence that the above is accurate.

Messrs Holder, Evin Lewis, Samuels, and Emrit are other budding or past examples of this

 
imusic 2016-01-01 17:27:43 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Who is talking about putting their feet up?

How does MAXIMIZING one's earnings during ine's prime in a short career mean that you can't generate income in an alternative career that doesn't come anywhere near to what one would make in one's prime?

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2016-01-01 17:29:42 

In reply to imusic

I give up!

 
Courtesy 2016-01-01 17:30:53 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

I give up!

big grin

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2016-01-01 17:37:01 

In reply to Courtesy

He getting like POINT stuck on a position despite all efforts to show a difference

 
Blackbird 2016-01-01 18:18:10 

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

If you read this well and converted all $$ into us, only the Aussies and English are paid above and beyond the wi.

We are on par with NZ, SAand India, above SL, Pak, Zim, Bang.

So our salary myth has been busted ....again.

 
Commie 2016-01-01 19:23:00 

The truth is that many cricketers in the Caribbean take no personal responsibility over their careers. As society has become fractured it is more difficult to succeed without support. How far would Chanderpaul have gone without his father, Viv without his, Lara without Carew etc.

The money is there to be earned.

 
XDFIX 2016-01-01 19:33:04 

Sorry IM, but Fuzz is on point here!

 
jen 2016-01-01 21:29:03 

People, this thing isn't about money. Even with Gayle, Bravo and co, our arses would still take a beating. We had Gayle, Sarwan (who in my opinion was an excellent ODI player), Shiv, lara, Jerome Taylor and Ian Bradshaw in the same ODI xi. How many ODI games we use to win?? Isn't that bunch a lot better than what we have currently?

We are good at T20 cricket and those guys rightfully get paid a lot for it because they are among the best the world has in T20. How do they stack up in ODI and Test Cricket? Among the current T20 stars, only Gayle can claim to have had a pleasing international career. Bravo own was heading in the right direction until he got distracted by T20 cricket.

I won't hurt my head not having the likes of Pollard etc, we'd still take licks, albeit at a lessor margin. Gayle is a miss cause averaging close to 40 is still good. You can't argue to me about players who averaging 25 *big suck teeth*.

You guys forget that not so long ago is US$17,000 those guys use to receive per test match, eh??? How were they performing. If you is shit, yo is shit, no money aint changing that. Fact is, cricket pay caribbean people way more than the average caribbean job would. If that aint motivation enough, then I don't know what is. Plus, when you on tour, you don't have any expense at all. Everything is covered. When you working a normal job, you have to buy food, transport to work etc. And those salaries mentioned by cricinfo does not include the other stipends that the players receive on a daily basis while on tour. It come like they receiving another month salary (not sportsman salary though hehe) time yo add up the daily stipend.

What West indies is lacking in is poor development of youth cricketers. They fail to realise that the youth cricketers are the ones who progress as your future international players. Have you guys witness the last 2 west indies U19 team? Extremely poor. The guys look way out of their league. Talent is best harnessed from a youth age, much harder to teach an old dog new tricks. Its possible but harder. Majority of the top flight cricketers start learning good habits from a youth age.

Guys like Kohli, Kane WIlliamson, POnting etc aint just turn good by flooks. Even Tendulkar, put in lots and lots of hours in the nets. How many of our cricketers, when not involved in first class/international cricket, take time and train really hard still? These guys don't treat cricket an every day thing!

 
imusic 2016-01-01 21:35:03 

In reply to jen

It's easy. You play cricket. You're young. All it needs is hard work to make the WI team and you too can be a millionaire. Even the hard work thing is a piece of cake. After all...it's just hard work. it's not rocket science.

The current cricketers are mediocre so you should have no issue making the team and making a very comfortable living for you and your family.

Come on Jen. Do it. We all support you.

Remember....It's easy

 
jen 2016-01-01 21:40:41 

In reply to imusic

Who said its easy? Ofcourse yo must have some natural talent to get to the top but it requires hard work. You does watch bolt train and blake? As fast as those guys are, they train like beast. I've heard Bolt saying that some training he does vomit after. That shows the level of intensity them guys train at, even though he is head and shoulders above any sprinter the world has seen.

 
imusic 2016-01-01 21:53:06 

In reply to jen

Who said its easy?


Commie1/1/16 8:14:16 PM
In reply to imusic

Hard Facts.

There are 105 FC players competing for 15 places. They may be coming from an expanded pool of around 500 players playing club cricket who are seriously considered for FC selection.

Whilst the odds of them actually doing well are good very few of them stick because they simply do not work hard enough at their game.

For what it's worth I'm pretty good at the things where I put in my 10,000 hours. The things I don't work hard at or haven't spent time working on I am simply not good at them.

I wasn't bad at cricket but played more ball and was better at that.

It isn't rocket science you know.

This generation of WI players have the potential to be the best earning in the history of the game in the region. Chanderpaul made over 10m us over his career and he was not on anything close to the current retainer for over half his career.

Within the context of the region these guys have the opportunity to all be millionaires and you are busy saying they are disadvantaged. They have incredibly good odds once they get into a regional team. We have the least FC teams in world cricket which means players get a better chance to play.


In two years a WI player spanning a wc and an average 20 Odis a year would earn roughly 650k us with only his WC fees liable to tax depending on the jurisdiction.

Whether you want to talk to this as some attritional benefit the fact remains that this is very good money whilst likely playing for a team which isn't winning much and in a region where that money will go way further than in most.

There are hundreds of thousands of people catching their ass in the Caribbean whilst doing their best


You can definitely make your home team. From there it's on to the Windwards team. After that....chances are good you make the WI team. Especially as players mediocre this rounds. You just have to work hard and you could be a millionaire. Tax free to boot.

C'mon jen. You can do it.

 
jen 2016-01-01 22:04:19 

In reply to imusic

What commie comment have to do with me?

I'm saying getting $15,000 or $5,000 with this current bunch of players aint making us a world beating team. You have australia having its best playres going through academy and harnessing the youths. We expecting things to be like the 70's and 80's were fast bowlers seem to grow on trees. Them things is freak of nature. When Australia lost McGrath, Warne, Hayden etc, they started to take licks easy. Me start to feel sorry for them. Australia didn't sit down and hope for another McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist etc to come. Mitchell Johnson worked his ass of and had a freakish year couple years ago. Warner has a T20 star. Right now you can argue that Warner is a better test cricketer now than limited overs player. This is what happen when players sit down and actually want to do better and put in the work. We want to get better and not work for it.

It seems to be a caribbean thing. Man want have money but want sit on the block all day. Ah fed up tell people, people don't get rich working 8-4 jobs. They work longer hours than most. Much longer.

 
sudden 2016-01-01 22:16:22 

In reply to jen

That was well argued Jenny

 
imusic 2016-01-01 23:15:41 

In reply to jen

Please produce your evidence that our cricketers do not work hard at their craft. That they are not dedicated to their profession.

Thanks

 
anandgb 2016-01-01 23:37:07 

In reply to imusic

Please produce your evidence that our cricketers do not work hard at their craft. That they are not dedicated to their profession.

Thanks


I cannot believe you wrote that.

 
jen 2016-01-02 00:19:22 

In reply to anandgb

Me can't believe it either. All he needs to do is watch the cricketers in his own island. I check out west indies in st. vincent compare to Australia. On day off, one team had fun on the beach, the next one has having fun, but at the sametime, making it physical fun. So they were having fun but training at the same time. I remember seeing Andrew Symonds jog around the ground here once, his fitness level was freakish. No wonder he and Mike Hussey use to turn 2's into 3's and hardly seem to blow much. Symonds was out injured for a game yet jog 10 laps before play started. I ain't saying everyone must be this extreme but yo can see the difference in intensity and determination.

Last year, there was a fitness test for west indies, only 2 men passed the fitness test out of 20 people. how in the world are these guys international cricketers. Jerome Taylor and someone else was the only 2 to pass the test. This one aint a go at bravo and pollard cause don't think they were part of that group as you know them aint play test match.

 
Pacy 2016-01-02 01:12:08 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

I give up!


He does not agree to your point so you give up smile

A Software Engineer starts his career as a Fresher and gets a normal pay and as he goes along his pay increases with his experience and he has a steady career as he crosses 40 he is still "Better Paid" than when he was before and continues to excel in the career he is good at ( not considering the extreme variables.)

An athlete who starts his training at U13 or U15 where and has no or very little pay to reach his prime at early 20's has a max of 6-10 years (in WI Context) to make his earning since he would have to find a new profession post his cricketing career. That is going to be decent to good if he smart and given that most of them have started to focus on cricket so early there is also going to be some who might not have the skills to start over.

So now there could be the characters like Bravo, Gayle, Russel etc who have an opportunity to maximize their earnings through the opportunities thy have.

I see everyone agrees that people should maximise their earnings when at their peak. So now if that is the case, then we should be asking the administrators to understand the reality and work out a model which is win win for both parties. But rather you encourage them to be branded PD's, Money Grabbers, Non committed guys etc and to top it all support their sacking because they are maximising their earnings "Legally"

The acceptance of "Everyone has to maximise" and voicing different views is where the problem is.

 
Pacy 2016-01-02 01:32:46 

In reply to jen

I'm saying getting $15,000 or $5,000 with this current bunch of players aint making us a world beating team.


This bunch is not going to be the world beaters whichever combination that you use Jen. But challenge I have is with the approach.

You talk about compensation is a biggest factor that makes WI not able to make the T20 Stars commit to WI cricket. Whether that is the single most factor or not, that is said to be a major assertion by the administrators.

Then you turn around and cut the salaries of the players by 75% it does not make sense. And to make such a huge change without proper ground work with a simple statement "Talk to WIPA" makes more nonsense. While the money does not make you any better, you would know that anyone would not want his salaries slashed? Would he?

You have australia having its best playres going through academy and harnessing the youths. We expecting things to be like the 70's and 80's were fast bowlers seem to grow on trees. Them things is freak of nature.


70's and 80's is not freakish Jen. WI has the best athletes in the world then and even today, we our players are really good athletes naturally. Russel, Blackwood, Bravo (When he started) Dwayne Smith etc are all natural.

Difference then is the dearth of opportunities and social situation which did not give multitude options. Cricket was one place to go for most youth and when 1000's of real good athletes decide to pursue a specific sport naturally some might be real good and that is what happened in 70/80s

Now, we do not have so many young sportsmen taking up cricket as their sport. When the source dwindles then the cream that comes out of that decreases too. We are seeing that and things are getting worse futher.

While I went to Australia got a chance to see some of the facilities they have. Facilities, Coaches and engagement programs are really good making youngsters want to spend time there. Unless plans are done to attract young athletes back in the game we will strugle

 
laynew 2016-01-02 03:25:25 

In reply to Pacy

I guess the best way to see how much the West Indies players should be paid is to put all Test playing nations (squads) in to a pool and pay them according to thier ICC ratings.

The West Indian players would then be paid what they are worth and I am betting they will be at the bottom of the scale and be paid less than they are paid today.

If they want to be paid more, improve your performance and your ranking, that should mean the West Indies team results will improve - regardless of what the inept WICB did - combined personal improvement = better team performance = better pay.

I noticed Holder jumped on the band wagon about the ICC providing a central fund to help equalise cricketers pay, does he really believe any of the current West Indies team can make anyof the other test playing nations team - well maybe Bravo.

 
Pacy 2016-01-02 03:46:03 

In reply to laynew

That is an interesting thought but that is not how it would work Laynew. These are the best you can find in the Caribbean and they should be paid appropriately. It is not as if you had signed a pact with them. Tomorrow if a Brian Lara comes out you are going to sack one of them and select him. As better players come they fill the positions.

I am all for adding a performance component but reducing the pay saying you are not good enough is not a self defeating approach (If there can be worse performances).

 
laynew 2016-01-02 04:43:36 

In reply to Pacy

I guess ultimately this discussion is about whether or not the WI players are adequately compensated for their job.. Based purely on recent results (they couldn't even beat a grade team), then I would say they are.

If they want to demand more money, play with pride and put in better individual and team performances, but they (based on current performances) are in no position to start demanding more money.

Holder needs to concentrate on trying to skipper and motivate the team rather than using pay imbalance as another excuse!!!

 
mikesiva 2016-01-02 05:23:50 

In reply to googly1961

Look how many posters are telling our players they should settle for the money the WICB pays them, even after the cuts, and yet if such a good financial package came their way, they would take the T20 route at the drop of a hat!
big grin
Holder's calling for a fairer wage structure too

 
DarkLightning 2016-01-02 05:42:53 

It's true that they could be paid better but the main reason the team is bad is poor administration and players who don't care. Case in point Chris Gayle being captain on tour to England deciding it was more important to play T20 and show up THE DAY BEFORE the 1st test match. It doesn't matter what he says, WI cricket is not in his heart and is not his priority and his attitude is indicative of the rest. What would Gayle really have lost by missing a few games of IPL? He's the most sought after T20 player in the game and would have had plenty other opportunities to earn T20 money. Now he's not fit enough for WI but is healthy for Big Bash

 
Pacy 2016-01-02 06:14:39 

In reply to DarkLightning

Two things.

1. That was a series outide FTP agreed by the money hungry ECB slaves without having the basic courtesey of informing the players.

2. Gayle is just back from the surgery and he clarifies he is available for shorter forms of the game while he is not sure of the rigour of 5 days of continuous cricket yet. BBL is a shorter form of the game so he plays that. If selected, he would also play for WI in the world T20.

 
Commie 2016-01-02 06:51:13 

In reply to Pacy

In all the shit that you write you realise that in the end the players agreed to 1.4m of the 1.9m us that was paid for that tour ? It wasn't like they were turning up for tea and biscuits.

They are supposed to be professional cricketers and that means being available on your paid retainer for any tours. There was no notice because WI were filling in for an aborted tour and getting paid for doing so.

In the real world that is what happens.

 
openning 2016-01-02 07:08:11 

In reply to imusic

Bro I don't think these cricket think micro as Commie would want us to believe, ii is about the market.
The next wave of players that soon will be leaving are guys like Holder, Blacwood and Carlos Brathwaite.
Dowrich and others will follow.
The WICB better wake up and see what's going on.

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2016-01-02 07:44:39 

In reply to openning

And when they wake up what can wicb do to stem the tide? They cannot match IPL pay.

I saw on Facebook that perhaps like WI govts do for scholarship winners, the wicb should bond the new players for a period of time before player can join t20 leagues.

What do you think? I think it has merit!

 
allan 2016-01-02 09:02:35 

In reply to mikesiva

In comparisonthey are within the top 1% Income earner

 
Pacy 2016-01-02 15:42:01 

In reply to Commie

In the real world that is what happens.


Are Sri Lankan Cricket Board and their SL players in your real world?