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...we truly suck salt.

Such limited batsmanship...

And he has played over 33 tests...with no discernible improvement in stroke play and batting technique.

The opposition just has to block the on side and Brathwaite is cramped.

Give me Len Baichan any day.

In reply to Courtesy

...at least he's still there.

In reply to kurios oranj

Yep. Going nowhere and putting pressure on the other batsman to get it going.

In reply to Courtesy

This is one of the reasons WI will not win test matches, inability to score at a reset that would trouble the opposition. It's a case of selfish batting because if your team scoring rate is not at 3.0 minimum then you are really hurting your team's chances of winning the test match. But it doesn't matter because we are the WI and we play for draws. 😹😹😹😹

In reply to StarBatsman

Nothing wrong with circumspect batting but when the bad ball comes along put it away most of the time.

It is easy for any batsman to pat a half volley back down the pitch to the bowler. But it is not considered as great batting.

And you guys criticized Shiv

In reply to Courtesy

He does seem a bit stuck this innings but his overall strike rate in tests is not significantly less than either Bravo and Samuels.

Braithwaite-42
Bravo-45
Samuels-47

In reply to Runs

Name some guys here who criticized Shiv. Don't just make a blanket statement.

In reply to kurios oranj

That's if you consider a 5 percent difference as insignificant over a long period of time.

But the major issue is how limited he is as an opening batsman.

In reply to kurios oranj
shhhhh! Look at the past 10 tests, he has been scoring faster than Bravo et al. I think he has resorted to survival mode this innings because he is in need of a big score.

In reply to Courtesy

IMusic, NineMiles you want me to go on?

In reply to Courtesy

Seriously, why was Kraigg looking to run there? But once they'd committed, he should've ignored Bishoo and run straight on, so Bishoo would be out. This entire day's play, Brathwaite's brain seems to have been fried by the desert sun.

In reply to Runs

Thanks. They are entitled to their opinions.

Shiv has delivered the goods big time and will go down in history as being committed to the cause of West Indies cricket but more importantly, he understood his role in the team and never wavered from his goals.

In reply to Baje

Mr. Brown the chief selector calls it not committed to batting, so he drops Pollard. He then tells the batsmen about their averages.
This is the result, individualism, ppl criticize Jason for not trying harder to win the last test instead of doing a "Shiv" and bat for the not out.

In reply to Courtesy

Agreed

In reply to kurios oranj

who?

In reply to shivnotout

Am happy he is not there, man poking all d fackting time. He takes d cake.
Pokecharran

In reply to Runs
He should get a bat sponsor from pokemon

In reply to Runs

boring to rass,de man live up to his name.PAINT

He's 23 years old, give the guy a break.

People saying he hasn't improved, yet there is other people saying he should be captain.

Kraigg is always in survival mode and doesn't know how to transition. He bats this way even if we bat first or chasing. Shiv could rotate the strike and nudge the ball around and if you bowl garbage to Shiv its getting dispatched to the boundary. Kraigg's batting is so negative that he doesn't even know how to put away bad balls. Look at how he always "jumps" (almost seems frighten when the ball hits the middle of his bat). Am I the only one that notices that?

Nope. That is why the lead post seh we suck salt if he is the gold standard...

In reply to Courtesy

openning soon come for you

In reply to Courtesy

Maybe just as limited as one-shot Bravo.


Bravo is making runs,so far in tis series, while Kraigg is in a slump. He needs to pick it up. If he doesn't. well, you know what the end result should be.

Here are Kraigg and Bravo 's stats in the Indian test series.


Bravo: 11,10,0,20,29,59,10.

Innings: 7

50s: 1

Ave: 19.86



Kraigg: 74,2,1,23,64,4,32*.


Innings: 7

50s: 2

Ave: 33.33

In reply to TheTrail

What you have done above is shifting the central issue of the argument.

I will leave that ball alone. A good test batsman knows when to leave the ball alone.

BTW, I started a separate thread for Bravo...you may wish to take a look at it.

Brathwaite does not play straight. He plays the ball from off to leg 90% of the time. The remaining 10% is when he attempts to play the ball on the offside and edges it past slips or the WK.

At that pint in his batting career he should have made some adjustments.
What about the coaches? Are they actually watching these guys bat?

In reply to embsallie

And West Indian cricket fans expect progress in our cricket?

...wishful thinking.

If one of our front line batsman is coming to the job with all these chinks in his amor then there is little hope.

Quite frankly, we should have been back to the basics 20 years ago.

I give up. Lil men of lil vision managing our cricket have let us down badly.

In reply to Courtesy

True ... and he may be made Captain

In reply to ellisstreet

Well, instead of sucking the two pounds of salt we will be eating it.

Appointing Kraigg as captain is neither visionary nor progressive.

A man who basically blocks the ball while camping on the back foot all the while shifting a dangling right foot from leg to off...very unbalanced. His bat also starts from second slip and end up at wide mid on and his right shoulder always ends up pointing to the on side.

Is this all we have in our cupboards?

Then crapaud is sucking our pipe.

Kraig can start learning how to bat by learning to play this shot.

In reply to embsallie

No coach can dare say Brathwaite needs to change his batting approach. Poor kid was said he is the best and role model for other batsmen since age group cricket stifling his development.

Technique that was adequate in age group and FC cricket seems to be short at international level. At the moment his grit and WI state of affairs is giving him some recognition with his scores. But anyone who knows cricket would know that he is tooooo limited to be consistent

In reply to Courtesy

Agreed ... But they have already anointed him vice captain

In reply to imusic

Courtesy is speaking the truth, I've been saying he need to get new people to help him at the International level.
His batting is still as it was, 5 years ago.
I am in Barbados, and our cricket is very close to curry goat matches
We had three trial matches, none of the teams score 300 runs, and the BCA has the nerve to continue with an Elite and 1st division, plus a promotion and demotion.
They just don't have 20 elite players

In reply to openning

Respect due aplenty.

In reply to Courtesy

The bowlers haven’t figured out his weaknesses yet.





Post revisited.

In reply to TheTrail

It is amazing kraigg has 5 centuries only surpassed bg Darren and Marlon. And Marlon has played twice as many matches and only 7 tons.

Yet embecile is decrying kraigg.

In reply to Runs

How could you forget to mention Twissy...who actually led the pack

In reply to Courtesy

I will take top order full of Braffits anyday...if that will stop the losing and losing of test matches.

Give me a hard fought 142* any day ahead of a brilliant 40 or 50 or 75

In reply to Narper... heard mention of Blacks brilliant 20 odd?

In reply to natty_forever

Damn people looking for picture perfect technique instead of results. He is very pleasing on the eyes for 200 plus balls because I know WI will be ok.

In reply to seaegg99... if a waan see a beauty contest, a go to the National Arena.

When we understand and analyse why Kraigg's batting average moved from 50's to 30's in a jiffy then we would have understood his problems with regard to batsmanship with a view to findings solutions.

Folks, this is a slow, batting friendly pitch and as such batting performances must be discounted.

In reply to Courtesy... this same pitch that Pakistan struggling on?

In reply to natty_forever

Sorry, dis done. This is not a batting friendly pitch.

We have already bowled Pakistan all out in the second innings.

And are we also forgetting that Pakistan is a mercurial test side and their down moments have nothing to do with poor pitch conditions.

In reply to Courtesy... you got that right. Always easy to bat from where you are.

In reply to Courtesy

People still don't get constructive criticism

I am one of Kraigg biggest fan, that's why I would like to see get an experience batting coach, and move away from his earlier coaches.

In reply to The Trail/FuzzyWuzzy

Doan sod off pon onli imbecile...put da fake cricket clueless phucka dat start thread in shite bucket tuh...hold da focus KB respeck due...yuh gets job done always...gum bumpers wont onerstand ..

Gwaan wid yuh bad self Braff!!!

In reply to Pacy...

... would a 42 average as an opener be considered consistent?

In reply to Courtesy

... however, you can only assume from so far, and if you have been playing/following cricket for long, you would know how the pitch looks to the eye, is not always how it plays.

In reply to openning... yes we do, but it doesn't start the way you guys do it.

In all fairness Courtesy did say "if"

In reply to Courtesy

Rameez Raja this morning was lamenting the fact that the PaKmen have shown very poor technique in handling the short pitched ball...he was worried about what will happen in Oz and NZ.

Credit must go to the WI fast men for extracting bounce out of this dead pitch

In reply to Courtesy

Braffit average never crossed 40...ever...peaked at 39.86....and it was a slow climb from 15 to 30s....and has remained in the 30s for the last 20 tests

See here

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

If Kraigg would have said, initially, that Lara is his Idol instead of Chanderpaul, we would not be having this gobbledegook today about his technique.


Who knows - he would have gotten a bat in the process…like AA.

He should have issued a telling proclamation…HELL NO.

In reply to Narper

Thanks Narper.

The stats provided in the link do not diminish my point that there is something fundamentally wrong with a batsman when after 34 tests matches he cannot pass the minimum standard of 40 while amassing 8 ducks and with some 42 out of 64 scores below his average of 35.

By his own gold standard average of 35...he has only succeeded 34 percent of the time.

There is a reason why he averages 23.00 against Australia; 31 against England and 32 against India (top 4 test teams).

And removing today's 142* against Pakistan he would be averaging 23.

KB came very young with limited attacking skills. Now if guys cannot see the improvement in his stroke play over the past two years then there is not much else to be said. Initially he was predominantly an onside player. Now you are seeing a batsman who drives well, plays the pull shot. Even his cut shot is improved. KB is not even 24 years old yet. All the while being burden with carrying the top of the batting order without a stable partner.

Pity we always eat our own!


These are the scores of one of out greatest batsman after 11
test:

4,3,192*,15,47,50,2,1,39*,7,0,10,0,12,12,41,36,44 and 2.

In reply to Narper

yuh rob de man anodda 47 that was suppose to be added to de 95* and take his average above 36...

In reply to seaegg99

I can see Braffit with a 50 average when he retires....in the next 10-15 years

In reply to seaegg99

check Sir Garry's before he made 365*

In reply to Narper

Just think we got a good group of youngsters with no real veteran in the middle to help groom them. Now it is just them against the world and they are taking a beating but getting closer. Two out of the three game this series they have been in contention away from home. Normally the bunch of the past would have given up already.

In reply to Courtesy

Kraigg sends a " talk now nah "

In reply to Narper

In regional cricket....perhaps

In reply to imusic

He has surpass your expectation, so the sky is the limit.

"un-outable"

standards

In reply to Courtesy

what a load of nonsense you speak.

I think he gave one chance in compiling 200 runs. Fantastic effort. Braithwaite reminds me a bit of michael Atherton... every team needs a grinder.. he has a great attitude and temprement ... you should be happy about this and not just trying to defend the nonsense you originally said.

In reply to mittheimp

Let me make it pellucidly clear, Kraigg Brathwaite could never be my gold standard for batting.

My memory is toxicated with very good to excellent West Indian batsmen.

In reply to Courtesy

Lame

In reply to Courtesy

Defend yourself Courtesy! This must be the greatest gm thread of all time!


I understand where you are coming from but 142* and 60* in a win? Look like the man just set a new gold standard!

In reply to voiceofreason

OK. If you are happy with your gold standard averaging below 30 against the top four teams (before this match) then there is no argument from me.

As for me, let me see if there are more swallows to be had in successive summers.

In reply to Courtesy

Look Bro. I am no big fan of his batting style but his temperament is second to none. I actually believe he will struggle on quicker pitches with some seam movement as technically he is not currently skilled enough for those conditions. He has youth on his side as he is only 23 and can still improve.

He had a good comeback tour after his struggles in the Caribbean vs India. We will see how he fares from here as he is now a prime target for the opposition.

In reply to voiceofreason

You just need to look at what side of the argument Courtesy is on, and then choose the other. Follow this simple rule and you'll emerge a winner every time.

In reply to voiceofreason

Simple: I'll take poor technique every time if it is accompanied by good production especially against top teams.

In reply to Courtesy

Commonsense has returned! Hallelujah!

In reply to Courtesy

Pakistan is a top 4 team.

... however, KB is Bronze standard with 37.52, above 40 is Silver, above 50 GOLD!

In reply to Courtesy

You know, the more OZ sledged Lara, the more he punished them with runs. They eventually learned not to sledge him. You keep it up; it looks like you are sledging KB and you too will come to learn.......

From December 2015 Against Australia, India and Pakistan KB is averaging close to 50.00.

He is still a young man close to 24 years old with a lot to learn.

The last three test series:

757 runs ave: 50.47

In reply to seaegg99

gold standard?

In reply to doosra

Maybe not but surely ICC top 20

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy


KB has many detractors, they coming out one by two.

In reply to Outswinger

KB continue to show improvement in his batting and has added the hook jab to his selection of shots, he keeps on doing the things that will make it a great batsman.

The naysayers will also be the 'Nay sayers'

The first shot KB played on day 5 was a punch through the offside for 4. A shot that any top class stroke maker would be proud of. This shot is something he has developed over time. His driving through the offside is much improved so too is his power and timing. A determined young player still working hard to improve his craft. He will make nuff people eat crow.

In reply to seaegg99
So then according to one poster, he is performing at a golden level..

In reply to Oilah

I like his jab shot, it shows he can be aggressive and his willingness to take on the faster bowlers.

Dogged determination. Got the job done. That was an "Atlas" performance. Hope he goes on from strength to strength.

In reply to seaegg99

That is great; however, there could be a little something lurking in this mix to spoil this situation if ever...

In reply to Courtesy

forgive me..but i only now seeing this thread..

whats the word I m looking for???


oh..

BWWAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAA

and to read VOR calling you the author of the greatest GM thread of all time???

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA


First BatsmenEVER to carry his Bat in Test cricket

I gone man..but thanks for the laughs.

In reply to powen001

Like many here, you probably have no idea what "gold standard" in this context means.

You asked for it.

Have a great day.