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FLINTOFF! Yuh not better than Holder in anything
Larr Pullo
2019-01-30 06:55:26
Except Pedalo incidents!!!
Grave added: "I saw Andrew Flintoff say he can't believe Jason Holder got a double hundred, yet I think Jason Holder is a fantastic cricketer and has been performing so fantastically over the last 18 months - a brilliant captain."
Flintoff, 41, averaged 31.77 with the bat and 32.78 with the ball in his 79-Test career, while Holder is currently averaging 33.86 with the bat and 28.29 with the ball in 36 matches.
TWAT!!!!
Emir
2019-01-30 08:02:06
In reply to Larr Pullo
Bullshit!!! The British press has always wrote garbage about the opposition- every time. That is normal and no big deal
This Greaves feller saw an opportunity to score some cheap points hoping the WI public will become more accepting of him- "for standing up to those British media"
Won't work for me and most fans. We still see the CWI as the enemy not the British media
LBW375
2019-01-30 08:03:15
In reply to Larr Pullo
Laughed out loud when I read this. Flintoff was ordinary with rare flashes of brilliance.
I remember him mouthing off to Dwayne Bravo about not being around for long, yet Bravo still plays and made some serious money out of it all.
Jason Holder's will surpass Flintoff easily. I dare say he will score more runs, have more tons, average higher with the bat and lower with the ball than your hero Carl Hooper.
natty_forever
2019-01-30 08:05:47
In reply to LBW375
Jason Holder's will surpass Flintoff easily.
… he already has.
positiveg
2019-01-30 08:36:07
In reply to natty_forever
Flint looking for his 15 minutes of fame.
I got to go look for this tweet of his and troll him. lol
Nah not worth it.
natty_forever
2019-01-30 08:44:09
RemainsUnknown
2019-01-30 09:49:37
In reply to Emir
Won't work for me and most fans. We still see the CWI as the enemy not the British media
NOPE........ just you and the handful who felt the whiners, Narine, Polly, Bravo, and other TiTs who felt they were wronged by CWI........
Ewart
2019-01-30 10:44:12
In reply to Larr Pullo
Reminds me of this:
It was another somewhat unknown (and unstudied?) entity in the person of the Jamaican opening bat Wavell Hinds, recalled to the team after a groin injury had sidelined him for nearly a year, who brought a spring to the steps of the West Indies team.
Brought on to bowl his “diddly” medium pace, Hinds struck with his first ball. And he struck the England team and England supporters into a stunned silence. To complete the event, he was assisted by his captain, Brian Lara.
For Hinds's first ball was bowled to the Goliath of England's cricket. Andrew Flintoff, whose claims to being the best allrounder in cricket today are taken seriously and who had championed England's batting all summer, and had just come to the crease. Mission? Pulverise the diddly West Indian bowling.
Hinds's first ball. Just short of a length. Pitched slightly outside off-stump, slowish and not rising much. Flintoff, a big cheerful-looking man, takes one look at it and slams a full-bloodied pull off the meat of the bat.
But he is beaten by the lack of pace, and Flintoff's drive across the line speeds, airbound, to short mid-wicket. Short mid-wicket where Brian Lara, of all people, is fielding.
Like a flash, Lara the left-hander, leaps low to his left and grabs the speeding ball safely into his palm inches from the grass. A bewildered, shaken Andrew Flintoff looks like how Goliath must have looked when David slung his stone. Then, having made only 3, he walks off. English supporters sit in stunned disbelief. West Indian supporters explode in celebration. Lara takes off across the field in a paroxysm of joy, his feet hardly touching the ground.
Khaga
2019-01-30 10:45:16
In reply to Ewart
Flintoff helped hand Lara's team a 7-0 drubbing in 2004.
natty_forever
2019-01-30 10:59:31
In reply to Khaga … did he help, or was present?
Khaga
2019-01-30 11:02:38
In reply to natty_forever
Flintoff and Harmison destroyed Mindies..
natty_forever
2019-01-30 11:03:25
In reply to Khaga … anomalies. How have they performed in the Caribbean other than then?
camos
2019-01-30 11:03:35
In reply to natty_forever
did he help, or was present
now that is cold!
Khaga
2019-01-30 11:04:11
In reply to camos
Cold truth..7-0
Oilah
2019-01-30 11:06:00
Always thought Freddie was better than his stats but after that many tests I suppose the stats don't lie
doosra
2019-01-30 11:41:08
In reply to Oilah
he was good in the ashes
6 / 79 MOM awards does not say much either
esp compared the leader in that category 
Jumpstart
2019-01-30 12:00:03
In reply to LBW375
He already averages higher in batting and lower in bowling.......flintoff is a dweeb
doosra
2019-01-30 12:17:37
how do you measure presence
there is a thread on hetmyer and presence somewhere
Jumpstart
2019-01-30 12:27:15
In reply to doosra
flintoff was certainly a more charismatic performer.....no doubt about that. but the stats tells us that currently, holder is a better allrounder than flintoff. Is like atherton and chanders. Atherton is remembered for a fantastic innings vs red hot and hostile allan donald but chanders while few people might remember his innings outside of us west indians, the stats prove chanders was the better player. chanders with a 50 plus average(thereby being statistically a great player) to 37 plus average. Besides presence has a lot to do with the competence of fellow team members
mikesiva
2019-01-30 15:17:16
In reply to Khaga
Flintoff had the occasional series where he did well, but most of the time, he was just plain ordinary and over-rated.
In 79 Tests, he only scored five centuries, and he only took five wickets in an innings three times.
Even in that 2004 series, Harmison was the bigger threat.
Harmison 23 wkts @ ave of 14.86
Hoggard 13 wkts @ ave of 25.07
Flintoff 11 wkts @ ave of 27
Stats for 2004 England tour of West Indies
For most of his career, Flintoff was a supporting act on the field, claiming a lot of the credit off the field.
Khaga
2019-01-30 16:02:20
In reply to mikesiva
In the return series in England he got 14 wickets @ 21.21 and SR of 37..not bad for a "supporter" in the clean sweep..
Look, Flintoff may be overrated. I get that. But, WI have hyped Bravo and a whole bunch of others who have nothing to show for in terms of impactful series wins..
jacksprat
2019-01-30 16:04:51
In reply to Ewart
Like a flash, Lara the left-hander, leaps low to his left and grabs the speeding ball safely into his palm inches from the grass
Someone should have helpfully pointed out to this writer that Lara, like Hinds and Gayle, was in fact a right-hander who batted left-handed so going to his left in the field would have been going to his weak side!!
Dukes
2019-01-30 16:29:59
In reply to Khaga
I was surprised at how mediocre Flintoff's numbers are. Like most people I rated him much higher than he actually deserves. I was surprised that in 79 test matches he only took 5 wickets three times, whereas Jason Holder has surpassed that in less than half the test matches.
Actually I think Stokes is a better cricketer than Flintoff as he has surpassed him already in 50 test matches as opposed to Flintoff's 79.
Larr Pullo
2019-01-30 16:32:54
Khaga
2019-01-30 16:34:31
In reply to Dukes
I am not a Flintoff fan. I paid attention when he had an impact on some series. I distinctly remember him giving Lara plenty trouble when Lara was chasing his 10k during that series in England.
On a lighter note, you West Indians should know more about big names and not so big numbers 
Ewart
2019-01-30 16:57:54
In reply to jacksprat
Lara, like Hinds and Gayle, was in fact a right-hander who batted left-handed so going to his left in the field would have been going to his weak side!!
Thank you Spratty...
I will add this to the text!
//
dayne
2019-01-30 17:00:12
Two things that impacted Flintoff numbers were he was on a better team than Holder so opportunities to get better numbers were fewer, close to the end of his career he suffered from many injuries. However Holder has the opportunity to be one of the great ones, he is on course to being a WI great.
Larr Pullo
2019-01-30 17:01:56
In reply to Ewart
Look don't buy into silliness. How does a left handed batsman's left side become his weak side because he's "right-handed"? Wouldn't you say he's ambidextrous and thus does not really have a weak side? Shiv for example another combination player, could throw with either hand with accuracy and power...
doosra
2019-01-30 17:19:52
In reply to Dukes
he was their cartoon character
and he won ashes lol
stokes do that yet?
jacksprat
2019-01-30 22:20:01
I am just fascinated by such idiocy being spewed from a self proclaimed fount of wisdom!
The fact that a player bats left handed but is otherwise right handed does not necessarily mean that he is ambidextrous which by definition means to be able to use boths hands with equal facility.
Neither Gayle nor Hinds is able to throw with his left hand therefore his left hand would be definition be his weaker hand. Even a dullard should know that to be considered ambidextrous, the individual must be comfortable with and capable of all the same functions using either oth hands. For example, this would include, writing, throwing, catching, writing, et al.
Renford Pinnock, of an earlier vintage was able to throw -and write- with either hand. He was by definition ambidextrous.
