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IMO we have none. Thomas is a rookie and has no variations. Holder and roach have neither pace or variations Carlos has variations but no pace.

England 350 on the cards every game unless we get early break throughs..

In reply to sunfish

… one question, have you seen him bowl?

In reply to natty_forever

Yes I have seen him and his pace is impressive and he's got a good yorker. However, he's untested at the death and does he have a good slower delivery?

In reply to sunfish Yes he does, and looks to set up batsmen with short ones before firing in the Yorker. You calling for DJ Bravo?

In reply to natty_forever

DJ who? Dat man in de past..gone!

In reply to sunfish … well he is the best. No?

As always you guys hype cricketers that have done nothing to merit that adulation.

Oshane Thomas has promise and that is all it is.

Let him singularly change the course of a game like how Roach does sometimes with his wicket taking ability and set the team on a course to victory or success before putting him on a pedestal.

Too many times we put these guys up there - through no fault of theirs- and we expect them to perform, only to be disappointed because they did not live up to the expectation.

If Oshane is as good as you say he is then that will eventually manifest itself on the field of play and his place on the team will be deserved and earned but please for now he just shows a lot of promise and leave it at that.

Oshane is a good pace bowler and I personally think he is very good with the new ball as he swings it at pace and also his toe crushing Yorkers but I don't consider him a a death bowler as he hardly get any tricks and disguise...I think obed McCoy have all the tricks in the book but the selectors are not giving the young man a chance.. kesrick Williams is also a good prospect but keemo Paul is our best at the moment but it's a shame he is injured.

In reply to embsallie … is not my fault you don't have the gift.

In reply to Devvvvvvv … agree. However, 6 Yorkers can do the trick.

In reply to natty_forever

That's so true but to bowl six Yorkers is highly unlikely and bowlers miss there length often than not trying to master the craft and when a bowler miss his length is a half volley or a full toss and those two deliveries will get stick

In reply to sunfish

I say we should bring back fidel Edward for this.

In reply to natty_forever

Are you related to Thomas?
Again posters are playing god or going on potential.
Check the number of games this guy played so far, not one five wicket haul, and yet he is the next Marshall, Holding.
Link Text

In reply to Devvvvvvv … so true.

In reply to openning … where did I say that? However, how many did Mikey have on debut?

In reply to natty_forever
This was the penultimate 1st class match prior to the first test at Brisbane where Mikey made his test debut.

f30822
New South Wales v West Indians
West Indies in Australia 1975/76
Venue Sydney Cricket Ground, Sydney on 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th November 1975 (4-day match)
Balls per over 8
Toss West Indians won the toss and decided to bat
Result West Indians won by 52 runs
Umpires TF Brooks, RR Ledwidge
Close of play day 1 New South Wales (1) 39/2 (McCosker 27*, Toohey 9*)
Close of play day 2 West Indians (2) 92/4 (Richards 38*, Roberts 6*)
Close of play day 3 New South Wales (2) 96/5 (Turner 42*, O'Keeffe 16*)
West Indians first innings Runs Balls Mins 4s 6s
RC Fredericks lbw b Pascoe 14
CG Greenidge c and b Gilmour 8
AI Kallicharran b Colley 78
IVA Richards c Rixon b Colley 26
*CH Lloyd c Gilmour b Pascoe 34
+DL Murray c Toohey b Pascoe 0
MA Holding c Richardson b Gilmour 62
I Ali c McCosker b Colley 13
VA Holder c Beard b Gilmour 7
AME Roberts b O'Keeffe 6
LR Gibbs not out 15
Extras (1 lb, 6 nb) 7
Total (all out, 263 minutes, 53.7 overs) 270
Fall of wickets:
1-20, 2-31, 3-73, 4-149, 5-149, 6-166, 7-182, 8-212, 9-218, 10-270 (53.7 ov)
New South Wales bowling Overs Mdns Runs Wkts Wides No-Balls
Gilmour 15.4 1 58 3 - 1
Pascoe 11.3 2 65 3 - 2
Colley 12 2 85 3 - 3
Hourn 9 4 28 0 - -
O'Keeffe 6 0 27 1 - -
New South Wales first innings Runs Balls Mins 4s 6s
*RB McCosker c Murray b Roberts 46
LM Richardson c Kallicharran b Roberts 2
GR Beard c Ali b Holder 0
PM Toohey c Fredericks b Holder 32
A Turner not out 106
GJ Gilmour c Murray b Ali 22
KJ O'Keeffe c Fredericks b Holding 44
+SJ Rixon not out 12
DJ Colley did not bat
LS Pascoe did not bat
DW Hourn did not bat
Extras (3 b, 5 lb) 8
Total (6 wickets, declared, 287 minutes, 62.2 overs) 272
Fall of wickets:
1-9, 2-10, 3-69, 4-92, 5-139, 6-229
West Indians bowling Overs Mdns Runs Wkts Wides No-Balls
Roberts 13 0 55 2 - -
Holder 10 0 49 2 - -
Holding 7 0 54 1 - -
Ali 14.2 2 55 1 - -
Gibbs 18 2 51 0 - -
West Indians second innings Runs Balls Mins 4s 6s
RC Fredericks lbw b Colley 11
CG Greenidge c Rixon b Colley 35
AI Kallicharran c McCosker b Gilmour 0
IVA Richards c Rixon b Colley 43
*CH Lloyd lbw b Colley 0
AME Roberts c Rixon b Hourn 32
+DL Murray c Rixon b Hourn 46
MA Holding c sub (J Dyson) b Colley 7
I Ali c Gilmour b O'Keeffe 13
VA Holder c Turner b O'Keeffe 9
LR Gibbs not out 0
Extras (1 b, 2 lb, 1 nb) 4
Total (all out, 201 minutes, 43.4 overs) 200
Fall of wickets:
1-12, 2-17, 3-65, 4-75, 5-100, 6-142, 7-149, 8-178, 9-200, 10-200 (43.4 ov)
New South Wales bowling Overs Mdns Runs Wkts Wides No-Balls
Gilmour 10 1 48 1 - 1
Colley 15 2 72 5 - -
Hourn 12 2 61 2 - -
O'Keeffe 6.4 2 15 2 - -
New South Wales second innings Runs Balls Mins 4s 6s
*RB McCosker c Ali b Holding 10
LM Richardson c Murray b Roberts 0
A Turner c Gibbs b Holding 66
GR Beard c Lloyd b Holding 0
PM Toohey b Holder 21
GJ Gilmour c Kallicharran b Holding 0
KJ O'Keeffe b Holding 19
+SJ Rixon run out (sub [DA Murray]) 4
DJ Colley c Murray b Holding 0
LS Pascoe c Murray b Roberts 17
DW Hourn not out 1
Extras (4 b, 3 lb, 1 w) 8
Total (all out, 237 minutes, 37.5 overs) 146
Fall of wickets:
1-1, 2-25, 3-26, 4-57, 5-62, 6-107, 7-114, 8-115, 9-136, 10-146 (37.5 ov)
West Indians bowling Overs Mdns Runs Wkts Wides No-Balls
Roberts 15.3 2 45 2 - -
Holding 15 0 60 6 - -
Holder 7.2 1 33 1 1 -
Notes
--> LM Richardson made his debut in first-class matches
--> GR Beard made his debut in first-class matches
--> MA Holding (1) passed his previous highest score of 51 in first-class matches
--> RB McCosker (1) passed 3000 runs in first-class matches when he reached 21
--> IVA Richards (2) passed 5000 runs in first-class matches when he reached 22
--> LS Pascoe (2) passed his previous highest score of 11 in first-class matches
--> VA Holder made his debut in Australia in first-class matches
--> MA Holding achieved his best innings bowling analysis in first-class matches in the New South Wales second innings (previous best was 3-37)
--> MA Holding achieved his first five wickets in an innings in first-class matches in the New South Wales s

In reply to natty_forever

I could say the same for you. WE both seem to be in the same boat.

In reply to natty_forever

More cricket is played at every level in the region, Holding must have had, a promising youth and club career.
Can you list anything about Oshane's career so that we will know more about him.

In reply to Dukes

Holding 7 0 54 1
Holding 15 0 60 6

Well is not OT fault them pull him from the PCL and have not played him in a warm up.

In reply to openning … see Dukes helping you out. Well this yute has had a successful start to his professional career, the CPL. Well I am very impressed and I am rarely so of Yaadie bowlers these days. Guess what, I am not the only one.

In reply to natty_forever

Do you realized he has an economy rate of 9.69 in T20 cricket?

In reply to openning… yes, but takes wickets. However, this is 50/50.

In reply to natty_forever

Dukes not helping him.
Instead he opening your eyes. You asked the question, an answer was provided.

Now show us, the unbelievers what you got.
Convince us that Oshane has enough stats to merit the rubbish you talking. Doh leave anything out

In reply to embsallie … Dukes helped him by providing stats that Holding did in fact had at least one 5 (6) wkt haul. Pace is what you cannot teach, and what I saw in the CPL is a yute thinking the game, working to set up batsmen and get them out. Was never one for fast tracking players, but if they did with this yute, I would have no problem mon!

In reply to natty_forever

Bro, update us on Oshane's cricket.
At what level did he represented Jamaica, how is his performance at the club level in Jamaica

In reply to sunfish
death bowler??
How about ANY bowler
Holder alone can't do it

In reply to openning … why?

In reply to natty_forever

And we understand that. That is why I said Oshane has promise.
But don't put him up there like he is the best thing since sliced bread and he is not even on the test team yet. Sing his praises when he has actually done something.

Do I like pace. Hell yes. As a matter of fact if we could I would want an additional paceman on the test team and have a 5-prong.
A bowler cannot live by pace alone. Right now Oshane is too young to have the wiles of an astute cricketer to know how and when to use that pace. All he is right now is brute force.........but he will learn eventually.

You should know by now what happens to fast tracked players with a lot of potential when they experience early failure and the powers-that-be discards them rather than nurture them.

In reply to embsallie… well he was a star in the CPL. Well I hope they offer him the same courtesy as those of recent time. And in now way am I saying he is a death bowler (yet), that was me joking.

… I beg to differ. Have you seen him bowl?

In reply to VIX
The death bowling bothers me because I recall with horror of the massive licks AB inflicted on Holder sometime back. Was painful to watch so I hope his ODI bowling has improved..

In reply to sunfish … new strategy, get bowlers that can take wickets., therefore not to worry about them batting 50 overs.

In reply to sunfish
Did you what AB did to Steyn ILP


That's AB and there only one.
England don't have an AB

anyone but Holder is our finisher

since that AB massacre Holder seems reluctant to bowl in the end unless forced and even then...

I recall Gayle and Samuels use to darts it in back in the days. I wonder if we can try something similar again

In reply to natty_forever

I suggest you resist the temptation to compare Mikey with Oshane because if you do, you would realize that Oshane still has another two years to his test debut if he is to parallel Mikey's career.In Mikey's first season his potential as a 19 year old was spotted by the powers that be so that his 4th first class match was for the Presidents XI vs Australia.He had clean bowled Ian Redpath the successful Australian opener twice (14 and 1) in the match for Jamaica vs Australia (match # 3). In the Presidents XI match he clean bowled Redpath for a duck but did not play test cricket until two years after.

In reply to Poggy

No but they have Roy, Hales, Butler and Morgan, men to be feared on a good day..

WI do not have a specialist Odi bowler fartherless a specialist death bowler.

Holder is our best ODI bowler....some days when he is on he is on...the next day he can be torn apart.
The same can be said about Carlos Brathwaite.

Paul appears to be one for the future but he is hurt.

That guy Kyle Mayers is a specialist List A death bowler and a powerhitter BUT he was never picked for the WI setup.

Roach usually gives you a good spell and a bad spell and Cottrell to me is either wickets or runs.

WI has to hope that Carlos and Jason together do well and a spinner backs them.

McCoy's stats suggests he should have been persisted with.

Who is our Death batsman?

In reply to natty_forever

Leveridge why isnt he in the squad?

In reply to Dukes

Boss me thinks no one will read 'War and Peace' on this board. I suggest you learn the virtues of brevity...

In reply to Dukes… I am trying, but have you seen him bowl?

In reply to sunfish… I luv to read.

… and I asked, have you seen OT bowl?

In reply to sunfish

typical 20/20 mentality!!!!!!

In reply to natty_forever

yes I have!!!

In reply to Dukes … your take on him?

we not talking about John Trim dem?

to what I've seen his bowls great wicket-taking deliveries. vital ones, seen him clean up Gayle like dry dust twice early in the innings and Shai Hope sent packing first ball duck, with a killer swinging yorker toe crusher at Jupiter speed.To put it this way, most star bats of the opposition he seems to clean up early dawns.

These ODI's should be used to find who should be bowling the death overs.

btw
death bowling is now a bit overrated

men have worked out how to deal with this, playing conditions have changed etc

to me it;s more important to have good middle overs bowlers...they can control the game better...

if u have an early wicket taker good too

In reply to doosra

Saw a masterclass with Freddie Flintoff yesterday and he said he was the master at the death they shown clips with him dismissing nuff batsman at the end of an innings with some serious yorkers dipping at the last moment and tearing out middle stumps, he claimed he backed himself to bowl those balls at least 5 in every 6 balls over.

he said at the backend of his ODI career batsman like AB was stepping forward and sweeping those balls for 4 down to the fine leg region with ease. He said he was glad his cricket days were over, claimed he would not have a clue to deal with those batters now.

In reply to Raggs

we have 2 balls now so the ball do not get as roughed up for death bowling...

it;s more the slower balls etc but that too get;s hammered

where is our spinner who can take wickets

In reply to doosra

where is our bowler who can take wickets

In reply to VIX

In reply to VIX

Somewhere pelting ppl dung

In reply to doosra

Leave the great Beaton alone plz