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Bravo: Honest discussion needed on West Indies
sgtdjones
2019-05-26 18:01:50
Bravo: Honest discussion needed on ‘West Indies First’
ALL-ROUNDER Dwayne Bravo is anticipating an “honest discussion” between the new Cricket West Indies leadership and players regarding the contentious “West Indies First” policy, and has warned that finding a workable solution will be crucial to the future success of the limited overs side.
A former one-day captain, Bravo said the enforcement of the policy in recent years had marginalised key white ball players, and had ultimately led to the decline of the Caribbean side in both the Twenty20 and one-day formats.
“They (CWI) cannot just continue to be hard masters to say West Indies First policy – it can’t work like that,” the 35-year-old told i95.5 FM in an interview Thursday.
“It doesn’t make sense to demand these things on players. Players have opportunities now, it’s no longer West Indies First; it’s sit down, have an honest discussion, know what’s best. You guys (CWI) get back our services now and it’s only going to be better for West Indies cricket if we play.
Link Text
sgtdjones
2019-05-26 18:04:47
West Indies lie eighth in the ICC Test and ODI rankings are ninth in T20s – the format in which they are the reigning World champions.
“I already have contracts from now until 2021. There is a tournament in every country where cricket is concerned and I had a chat with Floyd Reifer who is the coach and let him know listen, some of these series that are going to be playing is obviously going to be clashing with these leagues,” Bravo said.
“They can’t expect us to cut our contracts. We have to find a balance where everyone is happy. It cannot be one-sided, it cannot be West Indies way or no way, we have to sit down as professionals and big adults.”
Makes sense....
Sangfroid
2019-05-26 18:22:27
They can’t expect us to cut our contracts. We have to find a balance where everyone is happy. It cannot be one-sided, it cannot be West Indies way or no way, we have to sit down as professionals and big adults
What he really means is CWI, one of the most cash-strapped boards, must compensate him, and the rest, for foregone income. Not going to happen.
Also, to what extent are T20s and ODIs equivalent,so that selecting squads for ODIs based on franchise T20 is perfectly legitimate? I have seen some people suggest that the IPL "stars" should have been selected to the WC squad since the IPL provides one of the best environments to deal with "pressure".
Drapsey
2019-05-26 18:50:52
In reply to sgtdjones
Bravo: Honest discussion needed on 'West Indies First'
Nuff respect to Bravo for finally walking back his proclamation of yesteryear.
The proclamation: IPL (team ??) 1st, T&T 2nd, WI 3rd. Something like that.
brians_da_best
2019-05-26 19:03:26
Mumbai Indians - first
Trinidad - second
Westindies - third
I had started a thread that time, that he must be fcucked up in his head.
He still is
XDFIX
2019-05-26 19:39:46
All CWI needs to do is develop a bigger pool of players and get those who play in the overseas league to pay a tax. A man should be free to ply his trade wherever he chooses!
Walco
2019-05-26 21:14:11
In reply to Sangfroid
What he really means is CWI, one of the most cash-strapped boards, must compensate him, and the rest, for foregone income. Not going to happen.
How did you reach that conclusion when Bravo said this before what you quoted:
“It’s going to be unfair for West Indies or the board to ask us to give up these contracts to come back and play but we can give up a league to play a series but they also have to allow us to play couple leagues also.
Walco
2019-05-26 21:17:58
In reply to sgtdjones
“And if we go down the road of West Indies First policy and we say ‘fine, we’re not playing’ then you see the results. For example, (look at) the one day team, they haven’t won a series going on five years. The last time the one-day team won a series was when I was captain of the team.
“The T20 team, look at it now, after Darren Sammy is gone and removed – look at the state of West Indies T20 team. The T20 was our most dominant team and then look at the condition of West Indies T20 team now all because of the previous administration being vindictive and small-minded.
Facts are stubborn things. I noticed some Trinis bawling in protest against the dismissal of Tricky Dick Pybus, the same person who is the architect of the West Indies First policy that marginalized mostly Trini players.
Sangfroid
2019-05-26 21:38:11
In reply to Walco
Simple: compensation is not the same as forfeiture. Now that's out the way, can you help me understand who is denying Dwayne Bravo the opportunity to ply his trade? Also, to what extent can we rely on franchise T20 leagues as the basis for selecting players for ODIs?
black
2019-05-26 22:29:15
I like Bravo but he cannot run around International leagues and then act like he can walk back into the one day team. The team needed to test out Bravo's bowling in these warm-up matches but he was too busy playing for the IPL championship.
hawk
2019-05-26 23:41:10
In reply to sgtdjones
in theory sure it makes sense, i can't wait to see what compromise the T20 guys will make
Walco
2019-05-26 23:44:19
In reply to Sangfroid
Simple: compensation is not the same as forfeiture.
Where in that article does Bravo say that he wants to be compensated if he misses a T20 league to play for WI? What I quoted from the article suggests that he is willing to forego compensation from some T20 leagues to play for the WI if CWI also allows him to play a couple leagues when the WI team is playing.
Now that's out the way, can you help me understand who is denying Dwayne Bravo the opportunity to ply his trade?
Who said anything about CWI denying Big Bravo the opportunity to ply his trade?
Also, to what extent can we rely on franchise T20 leagues as the basis for selecting players for ODIs?
That one is a mystery to me also. I am waiting for Dr. Shallow to present a deep selection policy proposal to CWI explaining the basis for selection of players to the senior team based upon performance in T20 leagues around the world.
bobby
2019-05-26 23:57:19
In reply to Walco
And what is wrong with that? It is true of every profession. Why is cricket different? An athlete has a very short shelf life and must maximise his earnings in that time. Most of our players are not trained for anything else. Will you and the other big mouths here support them and their family?
Sangfroid
2019-05-26 23:57:48
In reply to Walco
Where in that article does Bravo say that he wants to be compensated if he misses a T20 league to play for WI?
What he really means is...
Who said anything about CWI denying Big Bravo the opportunity to ply his trade?
“It’s going to be unfair for West Indies or the board to ask us to give up these contracts to come back and play but we can give up a league to play a series but
they also have to allow us to play couple leagues also."
That one is a mystery to me also. I am waiting for Dr. Shallow to present a deep selection policy proposal to CWI explaining the basis for selection of players to the senior team based upon performance in T20 leagues around the world.
I await the official position on that. It should be interesting.
VoopsandOut
2019-05-27 00:51:17
I do not see why there needs to be a discussion at all. The discussion that Bravo ahould have had is with his own agent about him being released for West Indies duty the same way that the Kiwi, Aussie and English players are released from T20 leagues and county cricket to play for their national teams. He cannot expect to want to maximize his availability and income from leagues and then expect West Indies to take the scraps on his availability. Sorry, Mr. Bravo, I respect your talent and your ability to maximize your income from your talent. Please do not continue to feed the fans with this nonsense. We are so past you and it. We will enjoy when you turn out for CPL (at least until Euro T20 makes you a better offer) and then we will encourage younger players while they put WI national cricket first and if they also decide to make the move to the leagues, we will wish them well also and move on to the next crop.
FuzzyWuzzy
2019-05-27 01:26:00
In reply to VoopsandOut
Endorsed. Btw didn't Bravo retire from international cricket? Or has he announced an unretirement?
anandgb
2019-05-27 01:39:26
In reply to VoopsandOut
Well said. If you cannot play local cricket, then do not expect to be selected. Its that simple.
Star
2019-05-27 01:56:35
In reply to VoopsandOut & anandgb
The discussion that Bravo ahould have had is with his own agent about him being released for West Indies duty the same way that the Kiwi, Aussie and English players are released from T20 leagues and county cricket to play for their national teams.
Your reasoning is flawed.
Can WI afford to pay Bravo what NZ, Australia and England are paying their respective players to forego playing in T20 leagues and county cricket to play for their national teams?
If you were offered a million dollars above what you are being paid to work for another company doing the exact same thing would you say no thanks I want to stay and work for the company who is paying me a million dollars less?
Some of you posters are so illogical it boggles the mind.
hotarobin
2019-05-27 02:00:20
In reply to VoopsandOut
....meanwhile West Indies will continue to grovel at the bottom...we have to option to say "forget Bravo and we are over his crap, etc, etc" but what happens when our fresh talent get those same carrots waved in front of them? Will we then say I have had enough of you Pooran or enough of you Josephs? The reality is that this is going to be a vicious cycle so let's figure it out or be prepared to stay at the bottom of the pack.
hotarobin
2019-05-27 02:03:25
[b]In reply to anandgb[/b
Well said. If you cannot play local cricket, then do not expect to be selected. Its that simple.
but how does it fix the issue? the issue doesn't stop at Bravo or Pollard. Our upcoming talent will inevitably find themselves in the same position 5 years from now.
positiveg
2019-05-27 02:03:53
In reply to anandgb
Yup
[quote]Well said. If you cannot play local cricket, then do not expect to be selected. Its that simple./quote]
FuzzyWuzzy
2019-05-27 02:05:19
In reply to Star
Correct...and why should your former company take you back when you have spare time? Wouldn't they not go ahead and develop new employees?
hawk
2019-05-27 02:06:20
In reply to Star
there is nothing wrong with that reasoning, while i understand your point, you cannot compare working for a company with representing your "nation"
no one is against bravo and others earning big money in t20 leagues, but they cannot do that and play for west indies at the same time, even if there was enough funds to pay them, by the time they get around to playing for west indies they are either a spent force or injured
it just can't work given the amount of T20 leagues around and how highly sought after bravo is, you know good and well there is one in every month of the year
FuzzyWuzzy
2019-05-27 02:07:19
In reply to hotarobin
And letting them have their cake and eat it too means you never develop replacements. What happens when the stars eventually become old and retire?
Back to square one
Star
2019-05-27 02:23:03
In reply to FuzzyWuzzy
Correct...and why should your former company take you back when you have spare time? Wouldn't they not go ahead and develop new employees?
Therein lies the problem.
These new employees that you develop if they become stars will be offered millions to play in other T20 leagues around the world.
Do you think they are going to turn that down? They are going to choose providing for themselves and family at the higher earnings being offered to them.
Unless the WI philosophy is to select average players over players who are more talented, then you have the same scenario over and over and over.
brians_da_best
2019-05-27 02:29:29
In reply to Star
I don’t agree with you. Bravo made a choice to play in T20s leagues around the world, and he has to live with its consequences, good and bad. The good is he probably makes millions of dollars a year, the bad Is he misses out on truly global competitions.
He can’t make himself available just before a World Cup and cry when he’s not picked. You cannot have your cake and eat it too
Star
2019-05-27 02:43:25
In reply to hawk
you cannot compare working for a company with representing your "nation"
Nationalism isn't going to cut it anymore.
In the days of the three W's and Sobers, one could have pushed that philosophy, not anymore.
In today's materialistic world, financial independence trumps your old time way of thinking.
Even back in your old time days with that thinking, when the dollar bills were dangled in the faces of those patriotic players, they all forgot about playing for "nation" and went for the financial windfall as in Kerry Packer and South Africa.
Only difference with today from back then is that the money being offered by these T20 leagues around the world is way, way more, millions more.
hotarobin
2019-05-27 03:11:33
In reply to FuzzyWuzzy
which is why as much as we may not agree with Bravo there ought to be a discussion to at least learn so that a sustainable agreement can be reached if possible. Else we will also be in opposition to tomorrow's stars...
Jumpstart
2019-05-27 04:53:04
In reply to hotarobin
Of course a solution can be met. NZ cricket is also one of the poorer boards who themselves have admitted that they cant keep players from t20 leagues. In this case there is no CWI withough the players. If pollard and the other t20 stars can have 3 t20 tournaments per year, they would be good......the IPL, CPL and the BPL or big bash
Walco
2019-05-27 05:19:54
In reply to bobby
What are you carrying on with now bobcat? What exactly did I say that do you find problematic? Please point me to where I said that Bravo does not have the right to maximize his earnings ...
nick2020
2019-05-27 05:49:33
In reply to Walco
English is funny.
Bravo and his supporters are claiming he is being denied the ability to ply his trade. To be denied means taking away his ability to choose which is clearly not true.
I guess he wants infinite choice.
I am happy to see that era of cricketers retired. Now to see that era of WICB retired too 
hawk
2019-05-27 10:21:29
In reply to Star
i am not syaing nationalism is going to cut it, i am just saying it cannot be compared to working for a company.
and let me repeat it case you missed it, i am not against a player choosing to ply his trade in the T20 leagues, he has a choice and if that is the one he makes so be it, i am just saying like most of us who are reasonable, he cannot have both T20 leagues and still expect selection to West Indies teams
in recent times people have gone out of their way to allow the T20 guys some "slack" but even tyhough those intention are good it will not work... and you know this stop the belly aching about not being selected, when you have made your choice....live with it
Raggs
2019-05-27 10:22:39
Why doesn't Dwayne Bravo just go sit dung...
LBW375
2019-05-27 11:29:20
In reply to sgtdjones
"I already have contracts from now until 2021. There is a tournament in every country where cricket is concerned and I had a chat with Floyd Reifer who is the coach and let him know listen, some of these series that are going to be playing is obviously going to be clashing with these leagues,” Bravo said.
“They can’t expect us to cut our contracts. We have to find a balance where everyone is happy. It cannot be one-sided, it cannot be West Indies way or no way, we have to sit down as professionals and big adults.”
But it is one sided, it's Dwayne Bravo's way or no way.
Shouldn't be going back to Dwayne Bravo anyway. After the India tour fiasco he's dead to me as a West Indian player. I cheer him on when he's playing T20 all over the world but dont want him near the national team.
England/Australian/South African players all cut short their IPL to return to their national teams to prepare. Playing in T20 tournaments anywhere in the world and they're called to A Team duty, they leave and present themselves.
No West Indian players would consider that.
Every now and then Pollard, Bravo and Narine haul out the "I still want to play for West Indies" rubbish.
Fans wise up long time
Walco
2019-05-27 11:35:16
In reply to nick2020
My problem with the Bravos and Pollards of this world has been that in the past they have chosen to play virtually every T20 league out there while pretending that they still want to play for the WI. And the fans would swallow the crap they were spewing hook, line and sinker. This is the closest Bravo has come to telling it like it is publicly, Sangfroid's embellishment notwithstanding.
Star
2019-05-27 11:57:40
In reply to LBW375
Why would any WI player consider giving up playing in T20 leagues to play for less?
Some of you just don't understand how the real world works.
Would you give up your job to work for less than half of what you are currently getting?
You are asking players to do something that not one of you will ever do in your line of work.
nick2020
2019-05-27 12:39:35
In reply to Star
So they should be unavailable for the local, low paying work when there is higher paying foreign work out there but then when the work abroad dry up then welcome back Mr kotter.
what a ting
hotarobin
2019-05-27 13:07:25
In reply to Walco
My problems with the Bravos and Pollards of this world
question : how do you prevent the Josephs and Poorans and Hetmyeys from becoming the Bravos and Pollards of tomorrow? You are focusing on the problem not the solution...
Courtesy
2019-05-27 13:10:22
In reply to nick2020
Compromise is the word, isn't it?
Some of us want to have our cake and eat it.
In fairness to Bravos though...if I read him correctly, he is willing to give up some T20.
imusic
2019-05-27 13:10:56
In reply to LBW375 & Walco
Interesting take. Cricketers really exist in a different universe fornsoorts fans
Same fans have no issue with “their” football players playing in leagues around the world, missing Caribbean cup matches and friendliest galore, and ONLY coming back to play in high profile tournaments like Gold Cup and World Cup qualification. And even in WCQ, only in the latter stages.
The whole concept of comparing playing for an “organization” like Bolton Wanderers, or Manchester United, or Leicester City etc compared to playing for “nation” doesn’t register then.
That only applies to cricketers.
And even more glaring....same fans willing to ignore the fact that some players not even born in the country, some never even visit, don’t talk like anyone from there, but eagerly embrace them into the “national team”. They even invent cute nicknames like UB40’s for them.
Even more interesting, that identical case somehow also did not apply to cricket when a player who played his entire career up to that point in another country, couldn’t make that countries national team, and only then decided to try and make the “national” team and was eagerly and warmly embraced by same fans.
They have issue with the “Bravos and the Pollards ord the world, but somehow have time for Russell who does exactly the same thing. Gayle did it for years....and only recently come back because he knows he is near the end of his career...that’s forgotten too
So breds.....keep your righteousness. And stop trying to “spin”. You not good at it.
Do you think Jamaica would have
LBW375
2019-05-27 13:19:46
In reply to imusic
The thread is specifically about Bravo, especially with the fiasco in India which he led.
I have the same opinion of Chris Gayle, we should've moved on without him. Ditto any player who will not make themselves available.
I stand by my statement, all other players make themselves available for their team, except ours
LBW375
2019-05-27 13:19:52
Courtesy
2019-05-27 13:20:22
In reply to imusic
There are set dates in a calendar year where club teams are obligated to release players for national duty. National duty receives priority on these dates. Further, club footballers play in one professional league - cricketers want to play in each and every cricket league. The situation described above is not analogous to what obtains in the cricket world.
The "en pagal" scheduling of cricket tournaments make no such provision and hence the problem.
sgtdjones
2019-05-27 13:38:03
In reply to Courtesy
We have to find a balance where everyone is happy. It cannot be one-sided, it cannot be West Indies way or no way, we have to sit down as professionals and big adults.”
It is amazing how the learned ones missed the above but willing to jump down bravos throat. Isn't this what the players have been asking for over the last decade?
"I already have contracts from now until 2021.
Should players wait till CWI decides if they want them
for tourneys. We see how CWI announces such or does not,
then, it's too late to play in foreign tourneys.A player must look after his retirement.
We saw CWI administrators castigate players for asking a fair wage nor 75% reduction, yet as soon as they are dismissed they sue?
In fairness to Bravos though...if I read him correctly, he is willing to give up some T20.
Most of the Caribbean players would agree to such if treated with respect and not forced to plantation rules.
Compromise is the word, isn't it?
No one saw bravos asking for such? Lets talk ,let us work something out so all can be happy. Players do not today believe in ultimatums, you do this or else.
Walco
2019-05-27 13:47:23
In reply to imusic
If you prefer that I make it explicit, Gayle is the original architect of the cherrypicking strategy followed by Bravo, Russell and Pollard. They all play the same public relations game and I have the same problem with all of them. But Gayle to his credit helped us qualify for this WC.
And Bravo's talk about giving up some T20 leagues to play for WI is a good thing ...
Walco
2019-05-27 13:58:10
In reply to hotarobin
I focus on the post I am responding to at the time. The solution is compromise. But that has been virtually impossible with the West Indies First policy formulated by Tricky Dick Pybus. Remember Dave's recent amnesty initiative?
Tryangle
2019-05-27 14:05:09
In reply to Courtesy
There are set dates in a calendar year where club teams are obligated to release players for national duty. National duty receives priority on these dates. Further, club footballers play in one professional league - cricketers want to play in each and every cricket league. The situation described above is not analogous to what obtains in the cricket world.
The "en pagal" scheduling of cricket tournaments make no such provision and hence the problem.
Bulls-eye. Unless and until the ICC takes steps to establish windows for international cricket vs 'franchise' leagues, there's going to be no change for smaller FMs like the West Indies.
It's either that, or bilateral series will become a thing of the past and the only international cricket played will be tournament competition.
black
2019-05-27 14:06:32
In reply to Star
Your reasoning is flawed.
Can WI afford to pay Bravo what NZ, Australia and England are paying their respective players to forego playing in T20 leagues and county cricket to play for their national teams?
If you were offered a million dollars above what you are being paid to work for another company doing the exact same thing would you say no thanks I want to stay and work for the company who is paying me a million dollars less?
Some of you posters are so illogical it boggles the mind
His reasoning is not flawed. We all agree that WI cannot pay Bravo what the T20 leagues are paying him but he should not expect to have his cake and eat it too. Players cannot run around in International leagues, stuffing their pockets and return to the team as if nothing has changed.
The recently concluded tri-series with Bangla and Ireland would have been a good series to try out his bowling but he couldn't even do that, which is fine but don't expect special treatment.
Courtesy
2019-05-27 14:13:05
In reply to Tryangle
Correk. This has always been the issue and many of us simply ignore it.
This post is dated 2010.
Courtesy 5/1/10 12:37:52 PM
If West Indies Cricket is to turn a new page, then the WICB will have to adopt an equitable "no nonsense approach" to the management of the game.
There should be no inconsistencies in the execution of this mandate.
I underline management because it implies a strategic direction with specific measureable or quantifiable objectives with person(s) being held accountable for non-performance and creating incentives for achievements.
It is equally critical that the WICB resolve any issues with WIPA and put an end to the nonsense that we have been seeing in the media within recent times. WIPA should be viewed as an ally and not the enemy.
Stakeholders should also be kept abreast of all developments regarding the game.
The above is by no means exhaustive, but it is important for the WICB to realize that management is about making use of all available resources for the advancement of West Indies cricket.
Jaydee, please come in.
The recent refusal by key members of the West Indies cricket team to accept central contracts from the WICB brings into sharp focus the impact of "mega-bucks" on a game that was once considered recreational and only played on Sundays.
This conundrum has highlighted some inescapable facts:
(i) Cricketers have the civil liberty of pursuing a cricketing path that will bring strong financial rewards and ultimately safeguard their well-being.
(ii) ICC member boards will never be in a position to compensate players adequately if the free market cricketing model is allowed to prevail. The players will always attempt to maximize their earnings in light of a very narrow professional window.
(iii) The traditional game as we know it will cease to exist.
(iv) The future players will use the lucrative T20’s to guide their decision making.
(v) This scenario will be disruptive to the production line and the role of boards will be relegated to managing cricket nurseries for T20i.
(vi) To allow the players to gravitate where the lucrative contracts are at their whims and fancies is not a desirable and equitable situation. Both sides need to compromise.
The ICC must see the current situation as needing urgent attention and one that requires a level-headed approach. It must not leave the resolution of this problem to its affiliates.
The International body needs to act with a sense of urgency and the WICB will do well not to attempt to solve this problem on its own accord.
POINT
2019-05-27 14:21:20
The Fact is that since its inception ,
the Worst International Cricket Board
in the Commonwealth , aka the WICBC ,
has bluntly refused to seek Common Ground with Our Players .
In essence the WICBC with its usual
dictatorial Attitude , has once again
demonstrated , that it relishes , as usual , harboring & fostering its
usual Animosity towards Our Players .
Let me once again state that this
attitude by the WICBC is one of the
Root Causes of the Decline of Our
Players competitiveness in the International Cricket Arena .
It is this asinine attitude , why I
firmly believe that what is needed is not only a new Structure in West
Indies Cricket ; this Structure MUST
not be populated by any of those currently in the WICBC or the Regional Cricket Boards .
IT WILL BE UTTER STUPIDITY TO HAVE
A NEW STRUCTURE POPULATED BY PERSONS
WHO FOSTERED THE CURRENT CRASS
DICTATORIAL ATTITUDE THAT CURRENTLY
EXISTS IN THE REGION REGARDING
CRICKET. THAT AINT EVER GOING TO
WORK .
What is even worst is the freaking fact that most of those who claim to be Sports Journalists , are Guilty of Aiding & Abetting the Worst
International Cricket Board in the
Commonwealth , aka the WICBC , in its crass animosity towards the Players .
POINT
2019-05-27 14:35:50
Quite frankly , many seem not to realize this fact :
" A HOUSE DIVIDED WILL NEVER LAST "
It is very sad that those in the governance of Cricket in the Region ,
are so blinded by their Power , they
fail to realize that their ALL Consuming Animosity is at the Root of
the competitiveness of Our Players in
the International Cricket Arena .
In this Forum , I have continuously
stated that in the Region most of those who claim to be Sports Journalists are Lackeys of the WICBC.
It is this unholy alliance why WE are at or near the bottom of International Cricket .
" THERE ARE NONE SO BLIND AS
THOSE WHO REFUSE TO SEE ".
What WE need in the Region are Sports Journalists with the Testicular Fortitude to be Critical
of the Worst International Cricket
Board in the Commonwealth , aka the
WICBC .
Sangfroid
2019-05-27 15:00:43
In reply to Walco
And Bravo's talk about giving up some T20 leagues to play for WI is a good thing ...
All good and dandy, provided it's a WI T20 team. To qualify for the ODI team, however, he must play in the domestic list A competition (which runs for no more than 3 weeks in a calendar year), or a foreign equivalent.
That said, a concern for me is how does one build a "team", as as opposed to a group, when there is uncertainty about availability and a lack of continuity. Is there any consideration for the effect this will have on the morale of those displaced when these "stars" return, and the "team's" general performance?
And let's face it, the only reason Bravo and those that might think like him believe they have any bargaining power is because of the lack of competition for places in the present set-up.
carl0002
2019-05-27 15:01:48
In reply to Walco
But Gayle to his credit helped us qualify for this WC.
Man you make this sound like he did us a highly unselfish favor. Gayle know WC money is big money. And Gayle has done this before. Do what he does in between but make sure he finds a way to work his way back into the team for the world cups. You can predict with reasonable accuracy that despite what Gayle is doing on his own time, missing the WC wont be a decision that he will deliberately make for himself. So this is not so unselfish as you may be making it out to be. Gayle just more strategic than the rest of them.
LBW375
2019-05-27 15:10:46
Unlike Narine, Pollard and Bravo, I don't see Gayle giving interviews about "still wanting to play for West Indies" and refusing when they are called up.
Cut the crap, go play T20s and save us the platitudes
Star
2019-05-27 15:21:05
In reply to nick2020
So they should be unavailable for the local, low paying work when there is higher paying foreign work out there but then when the work abroad dry up then welcome back Mr kotter.
You guys think so narrow and make the mistake of allowing your subjective emotions to cloud your thoughts. Most of you are unable to apply rational though, logic and common sense in your arguments.
Fans pay money to see certain individuals play cricket.
There is more to it than just some non thinking individual saying pick this player because he played in all of our local games but don't pick this player because he only played international games for other teams.
The goal of Cricket West Indies should be to pick your best players at all times.
Courtesy
2019-05-27 15:23:46
In reply to Star
What about: The goal is to get our best players available and playing for us at all times for international duty?
Baje
2019-05-27 15:24:08
In reply to Walco
If you prefer that I make it explicit, Gayle is the original architect of the cherrypicking strategy followed by Bravo, Russell and Pollard. They all play the same public relations game and I have the same problem with all of them. But Gayle to his credit helped us qualify for this WC.
And Bravo's talk about giving up some T20 leagues to play for WI is a good thing ...
I would not put Russel in that category. He was pretty clear about his preferences. Gayle was the chief culprit in terms of trying to manipulate public opinion
Sangfroid
2019-05-27 15:24:16
In reply to Star
The goal of CWI should be to pick the best players that would constitute the best team. One does not imply the other.
Star
2019-05-27 15:25:14
In reply to Sangfroid
And let's face it, the only reason Bravo and those that might think like him believe they have any bargaining power is because of the lack of competition for places in the present set-up.
I hope you understand how profound that statement is.
Baje
2019-05-27 15:26:03
In reply to LBW375
Unlike Narine, Pollard and Bravo, I don't see Gayle giving interviews about "still wanting to play for West Indies" and refusing when they are called up.
Cut the crap, go play T20s and save us the platitudes
Well the selectors keep bothering Narine, I think that Narine is as clear as he can be with regards to his unavailability.
LBW375
2019-05-27 15:29:34
In reply to Star
The goal of Cricket West Indies should be to pick your best players at all times.
They are never available, except for World Cup (ODIs or T20s)
hotarobin
2019-05-27 15:30:25
What is clear is that any rigid stance and refusal to have dialog will see us losing any upcoming talent and hence remaing in the same situation 10 years from now. Only thing different will be that Ireland and Afghanistan will be ranked above us...
openning
2019-05-27 15:31:49
In reply to Star
The only cricket Bravo should be playing is T20.
I will give all the League players the choice, for that format.
Courtesy
2019-05-27 15:36:17
Bigger questioo: Is there a motive for not wanting to be on retainer contracts? When we can figure out if there is a motive then the issue that West Indies cricket faces will become much clearer.
Star
2019-05-27 18:13:48
In reply to openning
The only cricket Bravo should be playing is T20.
Soon you will be losing Hetmyer, Oshane Thomas and Pooran to the T20 leagues.
Are you going to allow them to go the route of the previous stars and keep doing the same thing over and over with the next batch of stars?
There must be some sort of compromise with your talented players when there is demand for their cricketing skills all over the world otherwise WI will just be a team with club cricketers and no sponsor, I don't care how deep their pockets are, sponsors will not tolerate that business model.
Doing the same thing over and over with no tangible solution to the problem is the trademark of mad people.
Tryangle
2019-05-27 18:22:01
In reply to hotarobin
Afghanistan, certainly. Ireland, maybe not as their golden generation is on their way out. But the likes of Netherlands, Scotland and *maybe* a resurgent Zimbabwe will threaten.
jelfew
2019-05-27 18:26:07
I remember a Jamaican politician making a comment that Jamaica has to recognize that Jamaican nurses will always seek greener pastures as soon as they are trained at the expense of the Jamaican taxpayer. We need to continue to train more nurses to meet our need. This is part of the problem that CWI faces.
Can CWI ignore their need and give in to what players want? Whom do they discus the problem Dwayne has cited with? Is it WIPA or some other body. It cannot be with individual players, with a view to forming a long lasting policy. From what I have seen of the CWI policies and their implementation, it does not work. From what I have seen from the different players perspective and what they want it does not work.
The leagues among the cricket playing countries are clashing with ICC fixtures and the deal worked out with IPL make sense but how does CWI benefits, when our players are perceived to be looking out for their own interests at the expense of CWI's interest? It cannot be CWI's way or no way. It cannot be the players' way or no way. Compromise is necessary but workable compromises are very, very, very hard to make.
There is also the matter of selection. It does not mean that if a player is considered a desirable selectee he or she can or should be selected. Dwane Bravo and Pollard are considered excellent T20 players but should they be selected for ODI's? Team spirit and team building is also important. Chris Gayle has proven to be suitable for all formats of the game. A Bravo or Pollard do not have the luxury to be so considered. Let the discussion begin Mr Skerritt, Mr Shallow, Mr Hines? and others. We long for a lasting solution.
nick2020
2019-05-27 18:44:13
In reply to Star
Is anyone stopping Bravo from IPL riches? No.
hawk
2019-05-27 19:45:06
In reply to Courtesy
There are set dates in a calendar year where club teams are obligated to release players for national duty. National duty receives priority on these dates. Further, club footballers play in one professional league - cricketers want to play in each and every cricket league. The situation described above is not analogous to what obtains in the cricket world.
well put, i don't see Germany touring Brazil for 6 football matches, added to that highly unlikely they will meet outside of the world cup
Discourse
2019-05-27 19:50:57
In reply to hawk
...highly unlikely they will meet outside of the world cup
Except for
a friendly.
black
2019-05-27 19:53:49
In reply to Courtesy
Further, club footballers play in one professional league - cricketers want to play in each and every cricket league. The situation described above is not analogous to what obtains in the cricket world
.
The rigors are different for different sports. There are reasons why American footballers only play 16 regular season games.
hawk
2019-05-27 20:44:58
In reply to Discourse
Except for a friendly.
exactly and if they do, it is certainly isn't very often
POINT
2019-05-27 21:21:03
In reply to bobby
Very Well Stated Comment , in my Opinion !!!!!
In the Region from the Genisis of its existence there exist a Culture in the
Worst International Cricket Board in the Commonwealth , aka the WICBC that
those in the WICBC are Lords & the
Players are their Serfs .
Frankly WE are where WE are due to this all encompassing Culture that is deeply imbedded in the WICBC . The sad thing is that those in the
WICBC are so imbued in this Culture ,that they are unable to see that their My way or the Highway is at
the heart of the Problems with Cricket in the Region .
It has and will forever foster an imbued Animosity beyween those who
govern , and those who represent US
on the Cricket Field .
I absolutely believe that unless ALL
Cricket Boards in the Region come to the realization that there must be
a genuine realization that those who
govern must be genuine harmony between those who govern & those who
represent the Region on the Field .
I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THIS WILL EVER
HAPPEN WITH THOSE CURRENTLY IN THE
WICBC & THE REGIONAL CRICKET BOARDS.
UNLESS OR UNTIL ALL THOSE CURRENTLY
ON THE VARIOUS CRICKET BOARDS CHANGE
THEIR MODUS OPERANDI .
I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT IS EVER GOING
TO HAPPEN ; UNTIL THERE IS A DEEPLY
FELT REALIZATION THAT THOSE WHO
GOVERN & OUR PLAYERS ARE OF THE SAME
ACCORD ; REGARDING HARMONY .
POINT
2019-05-27 21:32:00
It is very unfortunate that the WICBC
SERFS in the Media are so brainwashed
by their Masters in the WICBC , that
they relish parroting their Masters
who in the WICBC & the Regional
Cricket Boards .
They have been so thoroughly brainwashed that they are unable to
defrentiate Truth from Fiction ; and
this problem is also a large part of
the Problems regarding West Indies
Cricket .
number09
2019-05-28 11:26:44
I love windies ricket, but if my son at 21yrs, playing for WI and wanted all over for serious money, how can he make the right decisions to maximize his earnings and represent WI, if the West-Indies board does not have policies that benefits board and players.
WIForever
2019-05-28 15:19:02
Why not limit franchise cricket to 3 tournaments per player? A compromise between the board and the players. If the player wants to play more than 3, clearly they have no interest in playing for their country.
FuzzyWuzzy
2019-05-28 16:45:11
In reply to WIForever
That's actually a very good compromise.
Kay
2019-05-28 17:06:00
Bravo: Honest discussion needed on ‘West Indies
Bravo and honesty in the same sentence ....
tc1
2019-05-28 18:32:30
DIEHARD
2019-05-28 18:34:45
In reply to WIForever
Why not limit franchise cricket to 3 tournaments per player? A compromise between the board and the players. If the player wants to play more than 3, clearly they have no interest in playing for their country.
I've always wondered why they couldn't come to some such agreement, like IPL and two others of your choice, but not every Ramma slamma jamma T-20 tourney, and in addition, pay them a reasonable nominal fee for skipping some of the lesser tournaments
Sangfroid
2019-05-28 19:10:54
In reply to DIEHARD
You mean, "compensate" them, e.g. forfeiture of their IPL share to the Board? Even if you argue a cash-strapped CWI should do exactly that, or some variety of it, there is still the issue of selection criteria. Can we justifiably select ODI teams based on franchise T20 cricket?
DIEHARD
2019-05-28 19:41:28
In reply to Sangfroid
Even if you argue a cash-strapped CWI should do exactly that, or some variety of it, there is still the issue of selection criteria. Can we justifiably select ODI teams based on franchise T20 cricket?
No, nobody said use it as the sole criteria.
England selected Adil Rashid for tests and he doesn't play FC cricket..were they wrong to do so?
hotarobin
2019-05-28 19:58:56
In reply to WIForever
I like that suggestion...
hawk
2019-05-28 23:39:59
i have made that same suggestion many times 3 T20 tourneys per year and one must be the CPL, this is the only way it works, but i don't think bravo and pollard would go for this, those guys want to play in everybody's premiere league
Sangfroid
2019-05-28 23:53:51
In reply to DIEHARD
England's selection of Rashid was one-off, and at the time, he had missed a single season of red-ball cricket. Here, we are dealing with a matter of policy.
hotarobin
2019-05-29 00:09:10
In reply to hawk
i don't think bravo and pollard would go for this, those guys want to play in everybody's premiere league
that supposition, have the conversation and see where it goes...
hawk
2019-05-29 01:11:59
In reply to hotarobin
they can have all the conversation they want, i don't see those guys compromising their position, they want to have their cake and eat it too, all T20 leagues and play for west indies if and when they chose to
but we will see where the dialogue goes, i would be happy to be wrong in this instance, even though they both pass their sell by date
Maispwi
2019-05-29 02:13:58
In reply to hawk
In addition to that they shud play a minimum number of games in Super 50 and/or PCL if they want to be considered for the longer formats
POINT
2019-05-29 12:39:14
In reply to WIForever
YOU need to fully understand that the
people in the Worst International
Cricket Board in the Commonwealth , aka the WICBC firmly believe that
they are Lords & the Players their
Serfs .
What is truly sad is the freaking Fact
that the WICBC has absolutely no intention of changing that Asinine
Culture .
Worse yet is the fact that the WICBC
many Lackeys in the Sports Media have not only bought into this archaic behaviour , they relish
parroting the modus operandi of those in the Worst International Cricket Board in the Commonwealth .
It is this unholy alliance that is
the root cause of the animosity that exists between the those who govern and Our Players .
Whether WE like it or not unless there is Harmony between the WICBC
and Our Players , WE will find ourselves like the Character in
" ALICE IN WONDERLAND " RUNNING
VERY FAST BUT FINDING OURSELVES
IN THE SAME FREAKING PLACE .
natty_forever
2019-05-29 12:41:08
Anyways, WC start tomorrow. We can continue this after. Thanks.
POINT
2019-05-29 12:58:07
The Solution to this problem is not difficult ; but it will require ALL
those in the governance of Cricket in
the Region quickly come to the Realization that :
" HARMONY BREEDS SUCCESS ,
DISHARMONY BREEDS FAILURE " .
Unfortunately I do not believe that
ANY Cricket Board Members understand
or are willingly to accept this freaking Fact .
Therefore , if WE indeed want Our Players to be fully competitive in
the International Cricket Arena , ALL those imbued with the Masters &
Serfs Mentality MUST BE REPLACED .
