Message Board Archives

how dis lad end up in England's hand middle? The system needs washing down from head to foot.

In reply to Raggs

My guess is that the persons who passed up on Archer have already been booted. They don't last too long in the WI setup

In reply to Walco

If you ever hear how players are selected. It's who knows whom by school, club, religion. church, lodge or other connections. Many potentially good and great players never get a chance.
Thankfully some have options overseas.

True story re football.

A prep school near our community football club played all their football on our ground. The school did really well so eventually every parent wanted their fat, useless, no talent son to play.
Many of these parents used to show up at Saturday practice and started providing the snacks, etc - KFC, pizza and everything else that these kids should not have been eating. But everyone loved it.
Eventually they bought their useless kids spots on the team/squad....and the school started losing but the big wigs were happy.

In reply to Chrissy

But, how could that be the case with Archer.

Archer is a Bajan. Bajans were in charge of selecting the teams then.

Are you saying that Archer was a victim of the unwritten quota system, where his (rightful) place was given to let's say, a less deserving Yardi (just an example folks) just because?

Or, was his place in that now infamous U19 squad given to a Cowmarean?

In reply to Chrissy

I am well aware of that parent-influenced school team selection process here in the US as well. That's why I love track and field where team members are selected based upon times or distances instead of favouritism and money.

In reply to Raggs

Did you see Archer and the other bowlers selected ahead of him at the time so you could make a proper assessment? Are you sure he was better than they were at the time?

What you see now is the finished product so you can't say the selectors were wrong unless you knew what level they were at then. Maybe they were all better than Archer and he just happened to developed more than they have since then. People develop at different rates.

In reply to spider

Many international and professional teams have scouts whose job it is to see talent and potential before it becomes apparent to everyone. That player is then recruited and put into a developmental programme.
We are light years away from this type of system and we West Indians are too caught up in badmindedness and insularity. And that will never change.

Perhaps Jason Bennett could also have been a senior West Indies team player

In reply to Raggs
Archer is history, look on Chemar Holder ,who the hell is restricting this guys development?

A guyanese head of seloctors (I think it was Butts) said recently on Mason that when Archer was being looked at there was nothing special about him and that there were others ahead of him.

Butts came under pressure from the radio panel for letting Archer slip away..

In reply to sunfish


our problem is how we choose selectors, no special skill is needed it is just a reward for some past service.

This suggests that we're either not good at spotting talent or Archer is a late bloomer.

In reply to spider

Clive Lloyd picked an unfinished Mikey Holding - just saying.

In reply to bobby

In reply to Chrissy

You remember Ephraim McCleod? Clive Lloyd thought he was good too. he never amounted to much. Spotting talent is often hit or miss, whatever some might want to say. Anybody who saw a young Lara would know he was special at a young age. At a young age Steve Smith was a leg spinner. Kevin Petersen was more of a bowler at a young age. Not many thought they'd be great batsmen.

In reply to Raggs

Sometimes even very experienced scouts mis-read potential. .,,,
Khawi Leonard and one Michael Jordan were missed
Recall the remarkable selection of Ramadhin and Valentine ...

Archer had the same potential when the English saw him, WI people misread it, or what could be done with it.

In reply to ellisstreet

In reply to sunfish

Archer went to BIM U15 trials as spinner and only started bowling pace after 15. What that meant is that he wasn't monitored through the normal age group channels and hence was largely not on the radar of the junior selectors.

When he emerged at U19 trials he was not picked in his first year of eligibility again because he was largely an unknown quantity. By the time he was picked in his final year of eligibility there was no one doubting that he was a very talented boy.

If Butts and co. are still inclined to feel that Ray Jordan, McSween or Jones were more naturally gifted that Archer the cricketer after that tournament then that says everything. Have a conversation with anyone who played in that U19 tournament and everyone remembers Archer.

The problem with BIM is that they track their kids from U13 through to U19. The problem with this system is that there are always naturally gifted players and others who are late developers that will find themselves outside of their centre of excellence programs. In this case is was a once in a lifetime type talent.

West Indies selectors missed the trick, sure, but his talent was also missed in the land of his birth.

In reply to Drapsey

But look at Chris Jordan he played for Barbados in the regionals topped the averages with Miguel Cummins and WI selectors never noticed them.....they was a time under Butts when Bajan fast bowlers were not under the radar after the selections of Fidel Roach and Best. Chris Jordan would have been a mainstay in our ODI setup and T20 and as he encouraged Archer to follow him to Eng ....we would have been saddled with both Jordan and Archer. We ignored Jordan and then Jordan encouraged Archer to follow him. FACT.

In reply to analyst-kid

In reply to spider

Our system failed many a fast bowlers before Archer, thank Jah he went to England.