I have a few questions based on the opinions proffered by Professor Jonathon Turley, who opined, not that Trump was innocent, but that Congress should try to gather more direct evidence from "people who were in the room"; the very evidence that Trump stonewalled by forbidding Mulvany, Bolton et al to testify before Congress.
My question is during a senate trieal can witnesses be called, and can they defy subpoenas in that forum as they did with congress? Or is the senate trial mainly to consider nly the evidence already presented in the articles of impeachment?
Message Board Archives
Now that the impeachment is on...
2019-12-05 15:59:18
2019-12-05 16:17:43
In reply to Larr Pullo
What do you mean by "Congress?".
Isn't all of it part of Congress?
Congress can subpoena anyone to testify and they don't need a court order to do do. So essentially, the Trump Administration is obstructing a Congressional investigation.
The Senate would essentially be acting like a big jury. Yes, they can call witnesses if they need more clarification on something.
2019-12-05 16:24:57
In reply to black
You seem to be a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic... 
2019-12-05 16:27:09
In reply to Larr Pullo
My question is during a senate trieal can witnesses be called, and can they defy subpoenas in that forum as they did with congress?
No, you are.
2019-12-05 16:30:33
In reply to black
Isn't all of what part of congress?
Let me try to restate because you seem to be a little simple. Can and will the Senate call witnesses, and can the white house restrict access to such material witnesses as they did during the house investigation?
BTW there is House and there is the Senate. They are separate branches of govt.
2019-12-05 16:34:05
I am thinking they can defy and then it is up to the Senate if they want to pursue it in the courts.
I heard a lawyer answer this question, can John Roberts compel a witness to testify? He said he has a feeling JR will not delve into such but will basically be there to call balls and strikes.
2019-12-05 16:34:20
In reply to Larr Pullo
BTW there is Congress and there is the House. They are separate branches of govt
You just confirmed what I suspected.
con·gress
/ˈkäNGɡrəs/
noun
1.
a national legislative body, especially that of the US. The US Congress, which meets at the Capitol in Washington, D.C., was established by the Constitution of 1787 and is composed of the Senate and the House of Representatives
Congress is the House and the Senate.
2019-12-05 16:35:59
In reply to Larr Pullo
Let me try to restate because you seem to be a little simple.
2019-12-05 16:38:20
In reply to VIX
I see you didn't know better to make correction.
2019-12-05 16:41:06
In reply to Larr Pullo
I thought it was interesting what he said...only part of the hearing i actually saw live. I have not reread it since, but the example that he used was very curious.
He pretty much is saying there is not enough there and any President could be caught up in such a predicament if this standard is set.
For one thing he proves what i said...that this sort of thing is par for the course for Leaders. Second, that there is a certain segment of the establishment that will never agree to bringing the hammer down on the American President simply for ceremonial sake.
Am too lazy to go find his example...but he said something of trampling the law for morality and putting law of God over human law.
I will save the latter for later..But how can you claim trampling law for morality when you are asking that law be set aside so that the Office of President retains a certain ceremonial and perceptive ideal?
Seemed very convincing at the time...but on close examination the theory was totally backward.
2019-12-05 16:44:26
In reply to black
For once you are correct. Congress is bicameral. You are a lil' better than Ayenmol.
2019-12-05 16:46:09
In reply to Courtesy
hahahaha
2019-12-05 16:47:17
In reply to Courtesy
Except i recall correcting this very board on this very issue previously....Definition and all...pretty sure that is why he is aware of it....as he simply copies what others say to regurgitate later....I believe i corrected Runs about this months ago.
2019-12-05 16:50:08
In reply to Ayenmol
I may now have to reconsider my assessment of black.
2019-12-05 16:56:09
People confuse this stuff all the time....Congress actually refers to all Branches of Government....Eecutive, Legislative (Which includes both Senate and House) and Judicial.
People sometimes use congress to refer to the Legislature....and sometimes just the house or just the Senate.
It actually refers to all three. People also seem to think the three branches are executive, House and Senate....not realizing that the House and Senate are part of the same Branch of Government...just different jobs within the Branch.
2019-12-05 16:57:08
In reply to black
Ok I stand corrected. I acknowledge that you brought all your sandwiches to the picnic.
2019-12-05 16:57:45
In reply to Ayenmol
Corrected me about branches of govt? you are on some tainted stuff today Pastor I can reassure you it was not me.
2019-12-05 16:59:20
S
Now that we are clear what Congress is, will the Senate chamber call additional direct witnesses like Bolton and Mulvaney?
2019-12-05 17:00:28
In reply to Ayenmol
Except i recall correcting this very board on this very issue previously....Definition and all...pretty sure that is why he is aware of it....as he simply copies what others say to regurgitate later....I believe i corrected Runs about this months ago
Dude, what is wrong with you?
Do you remember posting a quiz about the U.S. Govt?
Who were the 2 people to score the highest?
2019-12-05 17:03:14
In reply to Ayenmol
People confuse this stuff all the time....Congress actually refers to all Branches of Government....Eecutive, Legislative (Which includes both Senate and House) and Judicial.
Are you sure of this?
I always tort Congress is the legislative branch and is one of three branches of government. You are never too old to learn.
Thanks Ayenmol.
2019-12-05 17:04:15
In reply to Courtesy
That is incorrect.
I just posted the definition.
2019-12-05 17:05:56
In reply to Courtesy
lalalalala
2019-12-05 17:06:04
In reply to Larr Pullo
No, why will they the Reps call potentially damning witnesses who will be cross examined by the Dems?
Unless they have exculpatory proof, they can refuse to appear as they did in the House.
Senators can then take to the courts.
Schumer and McConnelll needs to hatch out the rules etc before the trial
2019-12-05 17:06:20
In reply to black
So Ayenmol is wrong and he has misled me. Thanks for your clarification.
2019-12-05 17:08:23
In reply to Courtesy
a national legislative body, especially that of the US. The US Congress, which meets at the Capitol in Washington, D.C., was established by the Constitution of 1787 and is composed of the Senate and the House of Representatives
Legislative body.
2019-12-05 17:09:43
In reply to black
Um....
Who were the 2 people to score the highest?
You cant be serious....you are not a trustworthy person.
2019-12-05 17:10:23
In reply to Courtesy
come on Courtesy, how come you didnt know that the judiciary and executive are part of congress?
2019-12-05 17:10:40
In reply to Ayenmol
Nevermind, you don't know what you are talking about.
2019-12-05 17:12:12
In reply to sudden
come on Courtesy, how come you didnt know that the judiciary and executive are part of congress?
The definition specifically stated LEGISLATIVE body.
2019-12-05 17:12:30
In reply to black
That's one time I would have believed Ayenmol over you. Thanks for not making me make a fool of myself as a result of Ayenmol's misdirection.
2019-12-05 17:14:19
In reply to sudden
come on Courtesy, how come you didnt know that the judiciary and executive are part of congress?
I suppose out of sheer ignorance. I imagine, the same thing happened to Ayenmol.
2019-12-05 17:14:20
In reply to Runs
Corrected me about branches of govt? lol you are on some tainted stuff today Pastor I can reassure you it was not me. lol
Too bad i do not save stuff....you once refered to just one...either Senate or house as Congress and then the other and i went to Wiki to show they were both part of Congress.
Anywho...it was just an aside.
Back to Turley.
2019-12-05 17:14:40
In reply to Courtesy
2019-12-05 17:15:46
In reply to black
So instead of sympathizing with us you are laughing.
2019-12-05 17:16:03
In reply to sudden
The United States Congress is the bicameral legislature of the federal government of the United States, and consists of two chambers: the House of Representatives and the Senate. The Congress meets in the United States Capitol in Washington, D.C.
2019-12-05 17:16:04
In reply to Courtesy
has he issued a correction / clarification yet if he is indeed wrong?
2019-12-05 17:16:38
In reply to nick2020
you really think you have to explain that to me?
2019-12-05 17:17:43
In reply to Courtesy
I am no authority on the matter but given what I was told I can only suspect you and* sudden are playing chess while the others are playing snakes and ladders?
2019-12-05 17:18:16
In reply to sudden
has he issued a correction / clarification yet if he is indeed wrong?
I haven't seen one. It's a good thing black was following the thread. But if we are to go by Ayenmol's MO, I don't expect a correction or clarification from him.
2019-12-05 17:18:45
In reply to Courtesy
My bad i read some info incorrectly...or inadequately....I looked up Congress again and it provided all three branches under the heading then went on to describe it as Congress...
My bad and hastiness ....
2019-12-05 17:18:54
In reply to sudden
you really think you have to explain that to me?
No. I started to type something else but I hit the backspace.
Decided it was not my place to interject in this mental warfare.
2019-12-05 17:19:13
In reply to nick2020
I am no authority on the matter but given what I was told I can only suspect you are sudden are playing chess while the others are playing snakes and ladders?
I can only speak for myself. I am playing snake.
2019-12-05 17:19:15
In reply to Courtesy
if he is wrong and acknowledges it
2019-12-05 17:20:22
In reply to nick2020
where else would i get a good laff nuh?
2019-12-05 17:20:41
Seriously....calm down people. yeesh.
2019-12-05 17:21:18
In reply to Ayenmol
My bad i read some info incorrectly...or inadequately....I looked up Congress again and it provided all three branches under the heading then went on to describe it as Congress...
My bad and hastiness ....
My bad and hastiness ....
I am indeed thankful to black for spotting the mistake very early. I would have made a fool of myself.
Thanks black. You saved my day and lots of embarrassment.
2019-12-05 17:21:52
In reply to Courtesy
in more ways than one
2019-12-05 17:22:19
In reply to Courtesy
Honestly I do not know how you two manage to play the same trick on the same audience. How many times can you saw a person in half and get the same level of applause?
2019-12-05 17:22:56
In reply to Courtesy
i hope Black doesnt steal that explanation like he stole the other one or so they say
2019-12-05 17:24:00
In reply to sudden
in more ways than one
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!
2019-12-05 17:24:55
In reply to Larr Pullo
BTW there is House and there is the Senate. They are separate branches of govt.
Delete dat fast.
The House and the Senate are the two chambers of the Legislative Branch of Govt. Together they are called Congress - Article 1 of the Constitution
The Executive is detailed in Article 2 and the third branch is the Judiciary or Judicial Branch - Article 3.
2019-12-05 17:25:06
In reply to Ayenmol
Loud stupes I took American Politics and Government, trust me pal IT WAS NOT ME 
Unlike many I actually sat in a classroom and was taught this by a professor.
2019-12-05 17:25:26
In reply to Chrissy
Correct
2019-12-05 17:25:47
In reply to sudden
i hope Black doesnt steal that explanation like he stole the other one or so they say
I think black, as the smart poster that we know he is, will now go over any notes he has taken from Ayenmol's classes to save himself from embarrassment in the future.
2019-12-05 17:25:57
In reply to Ayenmol
People confuse this stuff all the time....Congress actually refers to all Branches of Government....Eecutive, Legislative (Which includes both Senate and House) and Judicial.
This is absolute BS
2019-12-05 17:26:46
In reply to Courtesy
I am indeed thankful to black for spotting the mistake. I would have made a fool of myself.
Thanks black. You saved my day and lots of embarrassment.
Thanks black. You saved my day and lots of embarrassment.
Glad to be of help.
2019-12-05 17:27:13
In reply to Chrissy
That dude is what we term a Dunning/Kruger
2019-12-05 17:27:14
In reply to Chrissy
2019-12-05 17:27:46
In reply to Runs
Not a big deal dude....i cant prove it so i will move on...As i said in my post people do confuse Congress as either one or the other...not both as it should be...the mention of all being viewed as Congress was a mistake by me.
2019-12-05 17:27:47
Lemme know when alyuh done navel gazing...
2019-12-05 17:28:49
In reply to Runs
Bro - Political Science is my disciplline - I taught dis stuff
2019-12-05 17:29:09
In reply to Ayenmol
Big deal my friend if you are going to discredit me have proof or stfu.
2019-12-05 17:29:11
In reply to black
Merci Beaucoup. You have now notched ahead of Ayenmol.
2019-12-05 17:30:47
In reply to Larr Pullo
you will be lucky
2019-12-05 17:30:58
In reply to Chrissy
I hear you, if I am not aware I stay quiet and seek education on it, but others prefer to opine without knowledge, there is a term for that, it is called the Dunning/ Kruger effect.
2019-12-05 17:31:24
In reply to black
People also seem to think the three branches are executive, House and Senate....not realizing that the House and Senate are part of the same Branch of Government...just different jobs within the Branch.
This is what i said...i misapplied the term in one instance due to reading a blurb under Congress and hastil posted it although i had not read it as such before....my bad on that.
You will make more of it because of the obvious....
I was wrong.
2019-12-05 17:32:12
In reply to Courtesy
the executive branch is made up of Trump, Mcconnell and Nunes or is that congress?
2019-12-05 17:33:14
In reply to Courtesy
Merci Beaucoup. You have now notched ahead of Ayenmol.
You love to play mind games...i'll just laugh.
Ayenmol finally made a HUGE mistake his adversaries can celebrate.
Go ahead.
2019-12-05 17:34:47
i think you can reasonably defend your position. do a Turley
2019-12-05 17:34:49
In reply to Ayenmol
This is what i said...i misapplied the term in one instance due to reading a blurb under Congress and hastil posted it although i had not read it as such before....my bad on that
.
I didn't need to look it up, I already knew the answer. I only posted the definition to affirm my statement.
2019-12-05 17:35:32
In reply to Runs
Agree - as granny used to say sometimes it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. 
2019-12-05 17:37:03
In reply to Chrissy
2019-12-05 17:37:20
In reply to Chrissy
The dude has it incorrect yet felt it was his duty to call out others
I cannot make this sh. e up.
2019-12-05 17:37:25
In reply to sudden
the executive branch is made up of Trump, Mcconnell and Nunes or is that congress?
You are very correct. The frequency in which Nunes and Mcconnell report to the White House confirms that and Trump is the head of Congress.
2019-12-05 17:38:20
In reply to Runs
2019-12-05 17:38:32
In reply to black
the vice president who is part of the executive is the president of the senate and can cast the deciding vote in the Senate if it is all tied up. so isnt there an argument to be made that he is part of congress?
2019-12-05 17:38:44
I know i have posted this before....i looked it up because i always do.
Which branch is Congress?
They are the Executive, (President and about 5,000,000 workers) Legislative (Senate and House of Representatives) and Judicial (Supreme Court and lower Courts). The President of the United States administers the Executive Branch of our government.
Three Branches of Government - Truman Library
https://www.trumanlibrary.org › whistlestop › teacher_lessons › 1.htm
They are the Executive, (President and about 5,000,000 workers) Legislative (Senate and House of Representatives) and Judicial (Supreme Court and lower Courts). The President of the United States administers the Executive Branch of our government.
Three Branches of Government - Truman Library
https://www.trumanlibrary.org › whistlestop › teacher_lessons › 1.htm
That is what i saw here.
Obviously i read it wrong...laugh it up.
2019-12-05 17:41:01
In reply to Ayenmol
You love to play mind games...i'll just laugh.
Ayenmol finally made a HUGE mistake his adversaries can celebrate.
Go ahead.
Ayenmol finally made a HUGE mistake his adversaries can celebrate.
Go ahead.
Mate, I am embarrassed for both of us for not knowing this. There are no mind games on my part.
2019-12-05 17:41:55
In reply to Courtesy
r u practising mindcraft?
2019-12-05 17:45:04
In reply to sudden
I would say a lil' more correctly, minecraft.
2019-12-05 17:45:56
In reply to Courtesy
I have a general knowledge about the thing.... I did nt study it...which is why i looked it up....and posted a bit prematurely...It is obvious the nature of the error.
Sorry i led you wrong.
But i certainly recall having looked it up before in Wiki when someone referred to the House as Congress and the Senate seperately and i looked it up dirctly and not by just the info on the search page...
2019-12-05 17:46:16
In reply to Courtesy
i cant spot the difference?
2019-12-05 17:46:19
Look we are all smarter than the average Trump voter so lets just accept that many mistakes were made and we have all managed to correct ourselves. Now what's going to happen once this gets before the Senate?
2019-12-05 17:48:36
In reply to sudden
i cant spot the difference?
No big thing. It's not as mortal as the schoolboy error Ayenmol and myself made.
2019-12-05 17:49:01
In reply to Larr Pullo
you cant get this thread back on track. it is off the rails
2019-12-05 17:49:16
In reply to Larr Pullo
Well thanks for being an adult about this..but as i said...the issues Turley raised were well presented and made me think. But his application of his theory wen taking his analogy/example into effect tels me he is rationalizing to save the Office embarassment.
2019-12-05 17:50:27
In reply to sudden
the vice president who is part of the executive is the president of the senate and can cast the deciding vote in the Senate if it is all tied up. so isnt there an argument to be made that he is part of congress?
No. That is not his regular job, he only serve as a tie breaker in situations where it is needed.
I guess you can make a technical argument of it but that is not his regular job.
2019-12-05 17:54:27
In reply to black
also an argument could be made the judiciary is also part of the congress becos the Chief Justice presides over impeachment trials in the senate
2019-12-05 17:56:33
In reply to sudden
I would ask for %of time spent on such duties and argue against.
2019-12-05 17:57:03
In reply to sudden
All branches cooperate (when needed) to make the Government run more efficiently.
2019-12-05 17:59:29
In reply to Runs
That's right, he does not participate in the day to day activities of legislative branch.
2019-12-05 18:02:00
Except i recall correcting this very board on this very issue previously....Definition and all...pretty sure that is why he is aware of it....as he simply copies what others say to regurgitate later....I believe i corrected Runs about this months ago.
Now, who would believe that Ayenmol corrected persons on this bored and posted this none sense about the make up Congress and he even had to Google what he corrected black and Runs about.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!! (When Chrissy opens her mouth.)
2019-12-05 18:02:54
In reply to Courtesy
Am going and have a drink later, I need it.
2019-12-05 18:03:20
In reply to Runs
2019-12-05 18:04:52
In reply to Runs
i am trying a Turley
2019-12-05 18:05:58
In reply to sudden
2019-12-05 18:07:04
...and to make it worse, misinterpret what he already knew from googling.
2019-12-05 18:07:48
In reply to Courtesy
Well he is a chosen one
2019-12-05 18:10:29
In reply to Runs
Self appointed or self fulfilling prophecy?
2019-12-05 18:12:14
Wow....look at all the hilariousity over one mistake...How ironic.
When i said you all are so envious of me and are always waiting for me to make a mistake....i was told that am full of myself etc.
Now look....even when am wrong am proven right.
Oh well.
Now the people i have always told this are the ones jumping over themselves in glee.
Notice unlike when i expose you all or call out your reasonings as false, immature or lies i am called all sorts of names and berated.
You wont get that here....I was wrong.....first time....and you all are stunned and beside yourselves....
2019-12-05 18:18:02
hilariousity
indeed
2019-12-05 18:36:30
A few examples of my broader point....
Archive
This one proves i was wrong about Black on this one. my bad there.
2019-12-05 18:44:31
In reply to Ayenmol
Never doubt me.
2019-12-05 18:48:33
In reply to black
Never doubt me.
Dude please....i misspoke based on inaccurate reading of info.
You want to claim superiority over that? a track record is more than getting a procedural right.
2019-12-05 18:54:07
In reply to Ayenmol
What I'm trying to tell is, I did not need to look it up, I knew the answer to all of it.
2019-12-05 19:06:55
In reply to black
What I'm trying to tell is, I did not need to look it up, I knew the answer to all of it.
THIS
2019-12-05 19:28:15
In reply to Ayenmol
You remembered me because I laughed at your ignorance.
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