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He was called Larry Gomes during Lloyd's era.

And Chanderpaul during Lara's

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy



.......... and Joe Solomon (at #6) before them.


//

Sir Larry Gomes.

In reply to Ewart

True...but I was thinking ODIs

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Do you think that our much superior bowling attack then would have more than compensated for any shortfall in runs and aren't we looking at this in isolation?

In reply to Courtesy

I don't understand. was 291/2 a shortfall?

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Did you look at Shai Hope's innings and see any way he can cut down on the dot balls without increasing the risk of getting out?

In reply to Dukes

Yes. Saw him block a few that on other occasions he played to long off.

In reply to Dukes

all this talk about dot balls is a BS theory. as long as the team in the end scores the runs to win that is all

In reply to sudden

One of the reasons why some people seem to know more about a particular entity is their penchant for paying attention to details.Virat's scoring rate is heavily boosted by his running between the wickets.Another person whose running between the wickets heavily aids his scoring rate is David Warner.WATCH AND LEARN and stop being LAZY!!!!!!

THIS IS NOT THEORY IT IS FACT.For all Chris Gayle's power hitting did you ever ask yourself why Hetty has a superior scoring rate in ODI cricket.HE RUNS A LOT OF SINGLES!!!!!!!

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Gomes was terrible in ODI, his success was in test cricket.

In reply to Dukes

no it is not. some cricketers score and play that way. others construct their innings by getting singles whilst building their innings and some by blocking then accelerating later so their reality is different

In reply to sudden

Chris Gayle has NEVER,I repeat NEVER played an innings in ODI cricket where he had 41 dot balls and 41 singles.He ALWAYS has more dot balls than singles AND IT IS NOT CLOSE!!!!!

In reply to Dukes

so?

In reply to Dukes

does every doctor diagnose a patient the same way? does every trial lawyer defend a case the same way?

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

James Adams and Brian Lara batted almost

an entire day, without WI losing a wicket.

Lara passing 200 runs

Director Adams not-out in the nineties.

WI vs Australia.

In reply to sudden

The doctor who gets it right more than the others should be looked at and you will find that his technique is better and more reliable.

Look at the guys who have faster ODI scoring rates than Gayle and then ask your self WHY???

In reply to Yadi
dude that was test cricket, run rate was less important .

Fellas an overall SR of 70 in ODI cricket after 65 matches in this modern era as a front line batsman is unacceptable. Use the stats and attempt to do some comparative analysis. There are minimum standards.

One batsman eating up 78 dot balls is unacceptable. That's 13 overs or 26 percent of total resources going to waste...one batsman.

In reply to Courtesy

Hope batted right for the circumstance and we won the game.


only waste if we had batted first and scored 287

It would be nice to have a team of Hetmyers but that's unlikely. There will be the Hetmyers and there will be the Shais.


Scoring rate is only relevant when the team loses. Are we now expecting that type of innings from Hety everytime he bats?

In reply to sudden

Sudden, this is one game which is an oddity. You cannot plan forward with this approach if you are to get better. This perspective of the last match is limited at best and does not reflect current day requirements and realities.

In reply to Courtesy

The best anchor in modern ODI cricket is probably Joe Root. Does it with little risk and has an ODI strike rate of 85.

In reply to Courtesy

that is true but every game is played differently

In reply to sudden

I seem to remember a team with all batsmen having over 80 sr but we were still losing.

Context is everything.

In reply to jen

Absolutely. Why can't we understand a simple application of maximizing resources. Plus we have Roston Chase in the batting line up.

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Well if it's ok for Shai Hope to continue batting the way he did, you'll need an innings like Hetmyer practically everytime to get the team over the line, naw so?

In reply to Courtesy

What if Hope is unable to surpass 70 what do we do? Replace him with someone who bats at 160 for 2 overs?

Will that guarantee is more wins?

In reply to Courtesy

the human condition is such that not all humans can or do maximise their resources. some do so more than others. in the end it averages out or may not but it takes different types to make up a team

In reply to jen

Hety's SR yesterday was acceptable T20 rate. This will not happen often in ODI.

In reply to jen

So you are saying only Hope and Hetmyer can win these games?

In reply to jen

as long as we can do it or have a game plan so to do. but i believe that Hope can accelerate or get out if the game calls for that

In reply to sudden

OK Shai Hope cannot move beyond a certain level. I give up.

In reply to Courtesy

if that is your argument fine. maybe he should be told to shape up or ship out

This tread is frustrating to me.One group defending Shai,the other group attacking Shai.
My simple solution is for Shai to score more singles and less dot balls.That is the simple and easy solution.I do not expect Shai to bat like Hetty and I certainly do not expect Hetty to bat like Shai.Both are ESSENTIAL to this team.

In reply to sudden

A SR of 67 in ODI will only yield 201 runs. This creates extra pressure on other batsmen to achieve consistently winning scores.

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

I said an innings like Hetmyer, meaning someone has to then score at some outrageous strike rate to get us over the line. Doesn't mean it has to be Hetmyer himself. Can be Pooran too. Pollard can score fast but his track record tells you its not something he will do as often as maybe Hetmyer or Pooran. So you largely banking on Hetmyer/Pooran then. Ambris scores at a good clip but is no Hetmyer and Pooran in making 140 off 100 balls.

In reply to Dukes

you mean score at a faster rate

In reply to sudden

Taking 30 singles out of the 78 dot balls pushes his SR to above 85 which is acceptable without much risk taking. Too many dot balls.

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Tell me why we won this game

Shai Hope didn't just bat long, he scored at a run a ball and we won with 2 balls to spare. This is what is required from your longest batters. If it was one of his usual innings, we been lose that game for sure. If memory serves me right, it's the only ODI we won on that Bangladesh leg.

In reply to Courtesy

Simple mathematics.

People think it means that Hope has to play more big shots. Just finding the fielder less is all that hope needs to do. The amount of big shots he currently plays is not a problem. The amount of dots and times he picks the fielders is the problem.

In reply to sudden

Obviously if you convert 25 dot balls to 25 runs, your scoring rate will be increased.It would not increase his risk of getting out.It requires a change in mindset.You look at Kohli always having the fielders under pressure.We do not do that.Look at Warner from Australia,even in test cricket.That is what paying attention to details does.You see areas where things can be improved.

In reply to jen

Aboslutely. Every dot ball is a wasted opportunity. We have to look at the bigger picture.

In reply to Dukes

Great point re Hetmyer and his fast scoring rate. Hetmyer is one the best single takers we have in the team. He nudges a lot of deliveries to the leg side for spinners. It's why he's hard to tie down. Most of Hetmyer's explosion usually come to the latter half of his innings.

In reply to jen

Just read and analyzed your link. It justifies the point made under this discussion. Thanks.

Shai Hope has proven his worth and then some.

Anyone who questioning his selection &/or performance deh pon skunt

In reply to jen

This demonstrates that Hope can play to suit the situation.

Btw look at the others in that game who are reputed quick scores.

I am sure the team management has no issue with Hope.

In reply to jen

Normally Shai runs a lot of single also. For some not to see that he was limping while running is also not being fair to the work the youngman did. Normally he is one of the better runners between the wickets. This would have helped his scoring rate. What was needed though was for him to stay at the wicket.

He has increased his scoring rate year over year. While yesterday Hetty came good, more often than not the same Shai have to make sure things are ticking over to make a game out of it. All I was sitting there saying if these two guys get out those spinners were going to eat us up!

Hope's approach worked well in this game, there are ODI when even Paint's batting would work, but I am willing to bet that we will be looking at 300+ targets in the coming games and this will not work!

In reply to camos

Neither will a sr of 160 and making only 30 runs.

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy
no one calling for 160 SR,be real!

In reply to seaegg99

Lots of them are just in hindsight trying to justify their initial negative outlook.

Rather than criticizing Shai they should just celebrate Hetys super knock.

But they have to prove that they are always right. Yet they condemn narcissist in chief trump. He has nothing on them.

In reply to camos

Gayle bats at that rate as does Hety but it means nothing unless you score big runs...and win games.

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Ganga made back to back test tons against a strong australian attack. It counts for nothing if it's not done consistently.



That is why Hope has to learn to do it like Joe Root & Kane Williamson cause power hitters are unreliable. Your man who bats the most delivery suppose to be able to make it count just like he did in that game. How many times has Jason Roy & Bairstow fail only for England to still make 300 cause Joe Root anchor then still get a near run a ball 100??


So if Hope plays normal and the power hitters fail, we lose. How can that be acceptable practice going forward???

In reply to seaegg99

Not true. From the asian tour last year to prior to the WC is the period where his strike rate improved. Not year after year.

And since the WC, it's pretty much gone back to where it was.

In reply to jen

But Jen didnt wi just score 291 / 2 with Shai's slow poke?


So shai must bat faster just in case the power hitter fail?

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Dude Shai bat the same all the time and we have lost a lot of games,tells you the success the power hitters are having.

In reply to camos

That's the harsh reality!!

In reply to Courtesy

We just had a 50 over world cup. Going by your instance on scoring rate, during the world cup how many times did teams score 300 runs, which h will require 100 scoring rate? I have realize a large number of people on this MB never played any kind of competitive cricket. When you turn up at the ground you do not know how the wicket is going to play.this is something that you will not know until the first ball is bowl. A team total is then set and plans set in place to a accomplish it. It could be less than a run a ball.

In reply to camos

Show a match that we lost because hope batted too slow

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

come on bro!

it is good to be where we are today but lets look on the trip ahead.

In reply to camos

You cant? Well I can show you one where we won despite slowpoke.

In reply to sudden

I believe your education is giving you a leg up in this debate

In reply to FuzzyWuzzythere are games where Shiv or even Paints batting would win for us.

In reply to camos

So it all comes down to the situation ent?

In reply to nick2020

or lack thereof

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy
I just don't get, the team chasing 287 runs, and fans criticizing the slowness of a player, not looking at the full context of the match.
If the West Indies had batted first and scored at a rate of five, one can argued, the slowness of the batter, but the team scoring rate was good.

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

There is a need for BOTH but as you suggest...Teams with a solid anchor WHO CAN accelerate while partnering with boundary hitters is always best.


sure...running between wickets simply keeps blood flowing and keeps the fielding team on their toes at all times.


So...I agree with you and Sudden here... ODIs is not a one size fits all approach....and quite frankly ...It has been influenced by T20.

those are also facts...so run chases and scores will be higher on average given the ability to up the rate with very few overs left to go.

In reply to powen001

you agreeing with me and Fuzzy? MAM oked that?

In reply to sudden

Man tell your good friend Courtesy, it is time to join the rest of the region in producing , one super world class player from the Windwards.
Leewards gave up Four Sirs, the Windward is yet to give us one great cricketers.
So 2020, I put all Windwards supporters, who go after players, on ignore.