Message Board Archives

Reverse swing is caused when one side of the ball is heavier (whatever causes the heaviness is immaterial).

The ball simply goes in the direction of the heavier side not the shiny side.

I saw this early in tape ball cricket all the time. If the ball was not uniformly taped it would swing. Some of us knew it and took advantage of this.

Mikey has always maintained this position.

Btw, using a tape ball with varying degress of uniformity is the best practice to help a young cricketer cope with the swinging leather ball.

"...varying degress of uniformity" ...you no what I mean.

In reply to Courtesy

I believe scientists who have researched the issue say otherwise. I believe the science.

In reply to Courtesy

what would cause such a degree of weight variation in a sphere? thought the popular view is that variation in surface area produce the swing?

In reply to camos

In reply to spider

Really, who?

Usually,players keep one side smooth (shine)
while the other side is rough (by not shining it)
Wind travels over the shine side unobstructed,
resulting in swing.
However, by applying spit and other moisture
to the shining side, it becomes heavier that rough side
This can cause the ball to go (swing) to that side.

Thus reverse swing.

But I'm no Scientist of Hexpert.

Here is the NASA scientist

In reply to Kay


all that esoteric stuff in the Rum Shop?

In reply to TanteMerle

Bro. This was always known by players who played tape ball cricket. There was no scrutiny of the ball at that time and we used that knowledge to good effect. The heavier side influenced the direction of the swing. It's like an unbalanced dart.

Anyone can try it as Mikey Holding encouraged Shaun Pollock to so do.

In reply to Courtesy

When we can get a hammer to travel with the ball trailing the chain, then I will believe those "shine theories."

A shinning ball by all means will decrease the resistance of travelling thru air and contribute to swing but it is not the main reason for swing.

Keeping one side of the ball shone has a greater influence on disturbing the balance of the ball. So the two influences contribute to swing. But reverse swing is...

Some new balls swing more than the other because of this imbalance (manufacturing error).

I will stick in Mikey Holding's corner because I have experienced it.

In reply to Courtesy

Without getting into too much of the scientific theories about reverse swing, I thought posters would have explored your idea about using the tape ball for batting practice. We don't need no science here. Could be quite beneficial particularly for the young and inexperienced batters

In reply to Discourse
It is very effective because you don't have the shine to guide you as bowlers no hide the side with the shine.

In reply to Courtesy

Reminds me of concrete pitches being used to cope with express pace long time ago.

In reply to Discourse

Yep the very smooth concrete pitches and the plastic or cork ball which simulated the real thing.

Batting with one pad aided the development of skills too.

In reply to spider

In reply to camos

Saliva/sweat applied to one side can have that effect.

In a discussion of reverse swing one should first consider what causes conventional swing. Air moves faster over the shiny side of the ball and cause it to swing towards the the shiny side. Hence the practice of shining only one side of the new ball. The batsman in return would simply try to determine where the shiny side is in the bowlers grip to guess which way its going to swing. Hence bowlers started to hide the ball on their approach. Andy Roberts was dangerous cuz he would change the grip in his delivery stride.

Reverse swing now means its swinging opposite to convention As the ball gets older one side remains shiny while the other is rough etc. Air still moves faster over the shiny side but slower over the rough side but now the faster air movement over 1 side is pushing the ball in the direction of the rough side hence the reverse swing. So seeing which side of the ball is shiny not going to help you anymore as it swinging in the opposite direction.

In reply to carl0002

The discussion is about reverse swing not conventional swing.

It's easy to account for conventional swing if we understand aerodynamics...but Mikey was talking about reverse swing.

What makes the ball go against the convention?

In reply to TheTrail

Didn't know there was still any questions about this. It's not like this is the early days of reverse swing discovery when nobody was sure what was really happening.

In reply to Courtesy
Well its the same aerodynamics taking into consideration the changed condition of the ball. Atmospheric condition also come into play.

In reply to carl0002

Does the ball end follow the feathers in a shuttlecock?

In reply to Courtesy

Don't know. Was never that interested in badminton.

In reply to carl0002



But you would agree the principle is the same...do you?

In reply to Courtesy

Back in the day we would heavily tape one side of the tennis ball and the opposite side would be left bare or with a single layer...boy you had to play that ball late.

As much as we love to see out swing and away seam in red ball, FAST in-swinging balls honing in at the stumps always got the most wickets. The pros would aim at an imaginary second slip and you had to be prepared to bat out the crease to counter and still keep an eye on the short ball.

The youngsters are now trained exclusively on prepared turf and concreted with red and white ball.

In reply to Courtesy

Let me take a stab at this! Reverse swing is achieved when the ball swings towards the side that is shiny, smooth and harder (heavy) due to less wear and tear as the ball gets older! So, the reason for the shiny side to remain (heavier) is because it’s physical properties are less disturbed as opposed to the rough side being lighter due to its physical properties being more disturbed! IOW the rough side becomes less dense as the ball gets older!
P.S. I slept at a Holiday Inn.

In reply to mkcharles

You have obviously lived the experience. "Who feels it knows it."

There are fellas who can really prepare a tape ball to make it swing.

In reply to StumpCam

In reply to Courtesy

We all could..before start of play the first half hour would be preparing a whole set of balls so there was a non stop barrage. The bowlers preferred the used balls to be honest and frequently “picked” the tape to get the desired result.

I first saw a lot of this back of the arm and knuckle ball in this form of cricket as guys could make the balls dip as well as swing by altering trajectories and grips. There was one guy who was a slinger some where between Malinga and Fidel who rattled the stumps one evening 5 in 5.

I do feel there were many “Test” players never discovered...lol

In reply to camos

Tiny air pockets developed!

In reply to StumpCam
that would not change the weight!

In reply to Courtesy

How and why does a NEW BALL swing when both sides are equal or identical??

In reply to camos

It changes the density!

Pakistanis have mastered the art of swing bowling. I asked a Pakistani bowler recently how to bowl it and the shine theory was not his main criteria. It involved finger placement and wrist action.

In reply to StumpCam

You can stick with your own theory or you can just read this:Science of swing bowling

In reply to StumpCam
movement off the thread.

In reply to StumpCam

The seam

In reply to StumpCam

In reply to StumpCam

Good question.

A few new balls are not perfectly balanced, some are slightly smaller than the other...the major point is, one side is heavier causing it to follow the direction of the heavier side.

In reply to Courtesy

In reply to Courtesy

Can I borrow a protractor?

In reply to StumpCam

When you have accumulated/acquired Mikey Holding's vast experience, I will consider siding with your postulation.

Right now I am in Mikey's camp on this issue 'cause I can relate to it.

In reply to Courtesy

I don’t need to acquire Mikey’s skill and vast experience!
I’m a exponent of swing with a new ball in my own right!

Please tell us why the 4 piece ball is preferred over a 2 piece ball!

In reply to StumpCam

Why should I stray off message? I don't suffer from a short attention span.

This is about reverse swing and whether you agree with Mikey Holding. We understand the reason for conventional swing.

I am in his corner with his postulation that reverse swing occurs when the rough side of the ball becomes heavier for whatever reason.

In reply to Courtesy

I already posited my theory on page 1 regarding reverse swing!

In reply to StumpCam