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What explains why so many West Indian

 
Chrissy 2021-03-06 14:21:55 

cricketers can't play spin bowling?
How do we address this?

 
dale_staple 2021-03-06 14:30:10 

In reply to Chrissy

Our batsmen have become lazy in the feet and in the head. The playing of spin is a fine art mastered by those who dedicate themselves to the craft of batsmanship.

To play spin you have to think, concentrate for prolonged periods and develop the deftness of hands, nimbleness of feet and courage. It takes patience and dedication to drill and practice for hours to accomplish this.

Now answer yourself this: which of our current crop are willing to do this? I remember stories of Lara shadow batting and batting with cones to simulate fielders; shiv batting for hours with a merlin bowling machine; indian cricketers live for cricket and play for hours.

Its a hard road. But our batsmen have lost the will to walk it over the years.

 
XDFIX 2021-03-06 14:30:14 

In reply to Chrissy


The pundits will tell you Hetty can and Pooran and Gayle have already declared that spin is their forte!

Windies better make sure they include the best "spin batters" in the Test team because that's the sauce Sri Lanka will be serving!

 
dale_staple 2021-03-06 14:33:08 

To address it we need players to be willing to dedicate themselves to the tasks of learning how to play spin from early. From as early as primary school and high school they need to learn to respect spin and therefore not just take wild swishes. Good spinners and spinning pitches need to be developed to allow our batsmen to learn how to bat on various types of spinning pitches and how to play against a variety of spinners.

 
openning 2021-03-06 17:06:09 

In reply to Chrissy
I would always hoped Lance Gibb had a finger problem, when he played against Barbados, this is nothing new, but has gotten worst.
When of our best players of spin bowling, I believe was Sir Everton, he is the reason I put myself in the elite group of batsmanship, in the many hours I watched him bat.
I remember him telling me, how he read spinners, it is by the rotation of the ball, out of the spinner's hand
It is no wonder, he scored so many hundreds in India.
A youngster I would like fans to watch is Alick Athanaze .

 
Narper 2021-03-06 17:10:57 

In reply to openning

Ballroom dancing needed

This jump and wave dancing dont cut it

big grin

 
Narper 2021-03-06 17:10:57 

 
openning 2021-03-06 17:13:48 

In reply to Narper
You can add some Latin to the Ballroom.
lol lol

This jump and wave dancing dont cut i

We are practicing Power hitting, instead of batting.

 
culpepperboy 2021-03-06 17:14:48 

I'm working on a mathematical solution to this problem.

 
Jumpstart 2021-03-06 17:37:35 

In reply to Chrissy

To be fair, SL's white ball spinners are exceptional. In 2019, they defended 130 versus NZ and Hasaranga had a really good LPL. But i get your point, sometimes the most benign spin bowlers come here and trouble us. Anybody remembers Mark Craig?

 
tops 2021-03-06 17:44:08 

In reply to Chrissy

Carl Hooper addressed it in the interview Dukes posted. re the fail school and clubs system that were in place.
He also made a good point re former cricketers who R selectors and selecting players. wink

 
Kay 2021-03-06 17:45:22 

In reply to dale_staple

Your first post covers it nicely ...

 
culpepperboy 2021-03-06 17:55:35 

In reply to Chrissy

The Hooper Lara Under-15 Batting Academy, catering to 50 players in each territory.

 
Narper 2021-03-06 18:02:12 

In reply to openning

What explains why so many Indian batsmen cant play spin?

 
openning 2021-03-06 18:12:08 

In reply to Narper
Anything you practice over and over, you will have an idea of how to accomplice it.
Shiv's learning was from cricket, he had no problem playing spin.

 
StumpCam 2021-03-06 18:17:01 

In reply to dale_staple

Who’s got the time to learn the art of playing spin, when there are more important stuff to worry about like Instagram, masquerading as Soca and Dancehall artiste! razz

 
openning 2021-03-06 18:21:35 

In reply to StumpCam
You are unable to multi-task.


lol lol

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2021-03-06 18:21:41 

In reply to StumpCam

You mean big dawg and universe boss?

 
sgtdjones 2021-03-06 18:24:36 

Charlie Davis said to his teammates play spin off the front foot , not back foot.

 
Raggs 2021-03-06 18:25:24 

In reply to Chrissy

brute force is a vice to truly mastering spin bowling.

 
Chrissy 2021-03-06 18:42:39 

In reply to dale_staple

I think it's way deeper than that.
I think economic policies have affected all
extracurricular activities that helped to develop motor skills from the primary school level.
Further most young men lack rhythm and can't dance.

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2021-03-06 18:48:21 

In reply to Chrissy

No way...they just dance to a different rhythm ...which oldsters don't get

 
Dukes 2021-03-06 19:23:01 

In reply to Chrissy

Shane Warne on Carl Hooper
Shane Warne on Hooper's ability to use his feet:

"During the 1995 series, this really nagged away at me, because I couldn't spot any of the usual clues even though I knew there had to be a sign that would give him away. On a number of occasions, I stopped at the point of delivery to see if he was giving anything away with his footwork. Most batsmen would be looking to get out of their ground at that point, whereas Hooper just stayed set. In the end, after watching him closely time after time, I managed to crack it. When he wanted to hit over the top, he just looked at me instead of tapping his crease as usual and looking down. Of course, my knowing what he was going to do did not always stop him from doing it." (From Shane Warne's Century: My Top 100 Test Cricketers).

 
dale_staple 2021-03-06 19:38:55 

In reply to Chrissy

U do have a point there. But its not irretrievable. Men just have to do a lot more work to unlearn bad habits and adopt good ones.

 
StumpCam 2021-03-06 21:56:05 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

No, just metaphorically speaking!

 
Chrissy 2021-03-06 22:32:08 

In reply to Dukes

Very true - Carl was a master of spin

 
jahmekyah 2021-03-06 22:35:09 

Play off the front foot and use your feet as sometime you cannot pick the ball
and watch ball from the moment it leaves the bowler hand. My coach use to tell me

watch the ball ignore the bowler

 
Priapus 2021-03-06 22:50:45 

In reply to Dukes

I remember this series vividly. First ODI, first 3 deliveries by Warne were sweetly timed drives on both sides of the wicket by Hooper to the boundary.

 
Scar 2021-03-07 01:49:24 

In reply to dale_staple Agree. More to the point is use of feet. The lunge forward came into WI cricket in the early 90s and seems all youngsters who became today's WI players copied what they saw to their detriment.

Ask the question how many batsmen use their feet in varied ways down the pitch. Most who do so today do it to try to hit out of the ground. The best players of spin also come down the wicket to play defensively and I mean purposely so. That plays with the bowlers thought process and a good batsman will try to anticipate the change in delivery that could come soon after.

I have seen Lara and Kali come down the wicket 3 to four times an over to play a deliberate defensive shot and next take apart the spinner. Their prior defensive moves was a means of "measuring" the bowlers line and length adjustments etc.

Sobers lamented about how today WI batsmen come down the pitch to swing and lunge forward to play defense. The bowler knows you can only stretch out but such and will put the ball just a tad shorter or wider in overs to come.

A successful once top player said he never went back to a flighted ball and tried to never let a flatter trajectory ball make him play at it half way on the up. Seems to make some sense cause any other way means you are stuck in the middle between where the ball pitches and could hit the stumps.

 
Logic 2021-03-07 15:36:35 

In reply to Chrissy

You pronouncement seems dated - it suggests we are more at ease against pace. In recent times I would say our best batsmen are more adept against spin than genuine pace and bounce.

Hetmyer and Chase, for example, are quite fluent against spin and more likely to get undone by pace. The likes of Brathwaite, Bravo and Hope, even if not fluent against spin, have had bigger issues with express pace.

But maybe your focus in on recent T20 performances in which case the issue may be more about batting quality (e.g. Allen) and batting sense (e.g. Lewis, Simmons and Holder who are among the few batsmen able to cope satisfactorily against express
pace; their lack of patience against spin is what mainly undoes them).

 
Ewart 2021-03-07 17:12:45 

In reply to Chrissy

Further most young men lack rhythm and can't dance



Interesting you should say that. My first century followed a long night of dancing!


big grin big grin


//

 
Chrissy 2021-03-07 18:38:36 

In reply to Ewart

lol lol

 
openning 2021-03-07 19:31:40 

In reply to Logic
Y

ou pronouncement seems dated - it suggests we are more at ease against pace. In recent times I would say our best batsmen are more adept against spin than genuine pace and bounce.

It more about playing the short pitch deliveries, than than playing pace.
Our batsman are out to sea, when playing spin.
It all about balance and movement.
For pace, they are not getting into a position to either defend or attack the short pitch deliveries, for spin most of them get stuck into the crease, or push at the ball.
Watch and see how they play a leg break, pitch on off stump, instead of moving the right foot across, they remain grounded and miss the ball.

 
Baje 2021-03-07 20:52:35 

In reply to Chrissy
We are not accustomed facing quality wrist spin. We have no quality wrist spinners in the caribbean to practise against. Our top spinners are basic orhodox who only turn and spin on specially prepared spinners wickets.