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Wise words

If we were to unpack what Clive said

We know what needs to be done but allow the naysayers to tell us a myriad of reasons why it can not be done.We need to get our best players playing test cricket and rather than saying this person needs to be fit and that person needs to play first class cricket we need to do what needs to one done and stop the foot dragging.

Successful people GET THINGS DONE

Unsuccessful people TELL US WHY THINGS CAN NOT BE DONE

In reply to Dukes

But you seem to think that Hety can play test cricket based on his shorter game. Please explain.

In reply to Chrissy

Ouch

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

In reply to Chrissy

Eh em

In reply to Dukes

Can say that again...as they say in JA

In reply to Chrissy

That is an erroneous impression.

The reason I think that he is the best batsman in the West Indies is his ability to quickly judge the length of a ball and get into position to play it.
All the top players have that ability which is instinctive and can not be taught.
I have repeatedly said that the boy has not learnt to bat yet.A combination of factors have led us to where we are today.Firstly in 2017 we had a very poor batting line up.As a result the selectors decided to throw him into the mix merely because he scored a 90 odd against Pakistan in a President's XI game.Incidentally they also picked Vishal Singh who was a disaster in the test matches.
CWI instead of allowing the boy to play a full season of 10 first class matches for Guyana,had him traveling around the world playing T 20 and ODI cricket for the West Indies.This was early 2018 when he played a single innings for Guyana scoring 46.
Exactly the same thing took place in early 2019 when in a full first class season of 10 matches he played a single match for Guyana.Instead he was playing white ball cricket for the West Indies
Guess what took place in early 2020???

My life experience has taught me a simple truth.
Experience teaches wisdom.
That application to this discussion is that in order to be a successful test cricketer, it helps tremendously if you play a significant amount of first class cricket.Look at Jermaine Blackwood and Bonner.How did the former get back into test cricket and the latter enter test cricket? It was on the back of a full successful season of domestic cricket in 2020.
It is not as if CWI has not done this before.Look at Ronnie Sarwan.He was identified as a future top class test batsman and while still a teenager was exposed to first class cricket in South Africa,India and Bangladesh and had played against South Africa A and India A along with a couple of Presidents XI games against Pakistan and Zimbabwe before he made his test debut at age 19.
All these things I have been saying for the last 4 years so it is not Monday morning quarterbacking.It is self-evident to me but nobody is listening because it does not fit with the current narrative.
A good captain gets the best out of his players.
A good coach helps his players improve by helping them correct flaws
A good cricket administration gives the players the necessary exposure so that they can maximize their talents.
The questions we must ask ourselves should address those 3 truths.

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

.

In reply to Dukes

What if the Hetmyer situation had played out as you outlined? He wouldn't have come to the attention of the ipl franchises and there would be cries of holding back a player from eating a food.

As POINT would say, it I'd my opinion that players like Hety. Pooran, Lewis, having seen the money and lifestyle of Gayle, Bravo, Pollard, etc, are quite happy doing what they are doing and are not particularly interested in playing test cricket. If it comes to them after their ipl days so be it.

Have you ever stopped to wonder why Lewis is always carrying a niggle? Why Hety not worried about fitness? Why Narine is never ready? Those player have made their calculations and are comfortable with themselves.

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

PREDICTABLE EEH????

The one thing our "Leaders" are good at, is fooling the masses.They are piss-poor at improving the lives of ordinary Caribbean people which should be their number 1 reason for seeking leadership positions.

In reply to Dukes

So are we on to Caribbean political leaders now? Why don't you come home and lead us?

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Because you are the only person who would vote for me!!!!

In reply to Dukes

Yuh got that right, because you and I are big fans of the Garf!!!!

We will call it the Garry Party

In reply to Dukes

Eh em...

I will vote for you too

In reply to Dukes

I hear yuh but in reality his long game is mediocre so using Big Cat's position seems contradictory to me.
Best batsman must be based on stats and that is simply not true.

Where we agree is that he has not played enough first class cricket

In reply to Chrissy

Look at these two sets of stats for first class cricket

42M---73 Inn---3NOT OUTS---2146 Runs---107HS---30.66----2-100's----14--50's

41M---74Inn---3Not Outs------2163 Runs----107HS---30.46---1-100's----12---50's

They are quite similar aren't they??

The top one is IVA Richards when Lloyd lobbied for him to tour India in 1974-5
The bottom one is Hetty at this point

Now why did Clive Lloyd and indeed Garry Sobers feel at that time that Viv was going to be a top batsman? Ask them
You do know that Lloyd had to convince the other selectors to get Viv on that tour.

In reply to Chrissy

Actually I found the match that caused Garry to call Clive about Viv.

Here it is

In reply to Dukes
So yuh saying Hety is di next Viv - we'll see

In reply to Chrissy

In reply to Chrissy

No,I am saying he is the next top class WI batsman.

In reply to Dukes

We'll see

In reply to Dukes

Better than Pooran?

Shai Hope?


Or are they already top class and he just next in line?

All ya be nice to Duksie nah,

Its Easter Monday.

In reply to imusic

Top class means average 40 in TEST CRICKET!!!

In reply to Dukes

Dukes, please tell me that you are kidding about Hetmyer being our next top class batsman. Hetmyer is talented but he is NOT world class. With an average of 27.9 in 30 test innings without a hundred is not the sign of a world class batsman. There is a mentality that goes with it as well. In first class cricket he averages 30.46. That sir is not good enough.

In reply to Windiesfan78

You would be better off if you read what I wrote in this thread and then address the points I made. That is if you are into debating intelligently.

In reply to Dukes

There is a vast difference between between the two.
Viv was playing and learning at the County and the regional level, the 41 matches played by Viv was less than the 8 years played by Hetmyer, Viv was also upgrading with the format that would allowed him to be the best batsman he wanted to be.
T20 cricket is not to develop anyone, it is to make money for the franchise.
We continue to compare players of this generation with former players, there is no finishing school in the region, no academy, no county circuit, no A teams, no regional friendlies, NOTHING.
Stop it and let Hetty earn a living.
I am tired posting about Viv versus T&T mystery spinner, My buddy and I had to call QPO during the Leeward inning, to find out when Viv was going to work.
Hearing fans spoke about who was better Sir Gary or Rohan, fans had already seen the two numerous times, and understood batsmanship.
Batsmanship is about the number of quality innings batted, not from a early sample of innings.
In 1986 my former games master who was Barbados scorer said to me, People say Viv is great, he has not played the type of inning to be considered great, that changed quickly.

In reply to openning
Well said

In reply to Dukes

Well since you obviously not talking about Hety there, I’ll revert to my original question.

You said Hety is the next top class WI batsman.


Is he better than Pooran or Shai Hope?

Thanks

In reply to imusic

OBVIOUSLY I AM TALKING ABOUT THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!!!

You guys seemingly lack vision and could only talk about what has already taken place.
Anybody can do that.

In reply to openning

Clearly you have not thought through the implications of what you just wrote above.

At this point we are all speculating and only time will reveal whether Hetty will be a top class test batsman.
I am confident that time will reflect credit on my judgement.It certainly has in the past when it comes to Guyanese batsmen who I predicted would be top class batsmen when they had only played Under 19 cricket.


Do you agree with the above??? 1986???????? Surely you jest!!!!!!!

In reply to Dukes

You moved from medicine to a Speculator?
I try not to play god after watching 25 years of failing.

In reply to Dukes

Are you then saying that Hetmeyer will be a better WI top class batsman than either of Pooran and Shai Hope?

Just trying to get some clarity from you.

In reply to openning

Not playing GOD

Here is a list of people who tagged Sarwan to play test cricket SUCCESSFULLY when he was 16 years old.

1.Pat Legall(15)
2.Carl Hooper(Sarwan was 14)
3. Dukes(16)

The late Basil Butcher tagged Hetmyer when he was 13 years old

Clive Lloyd tagged Carl Hooper when he was 17 years old.

Joey Carew tagged Brian Lara when he was 15 years old.

In reply to imusic

YES

In reply to imusic

Do you know that Shai Hope spent 2 years in England as a teenager on a cricket scholarship?

In reply to Dukes

Based on?

Thanks

In reply to Dukes

How many did they tag go on to unsuccessful careers?

Did Lloyd not tag Faoud Bacchus? Roger Harper?

Viv tagged Hamish Anthony

Carew also tagged Dhanraj and Daren Ganga

The fact is…..Hetmeyer has done nothing YET to suggest he’s this top class batsman

And Inknow you’ll come running with his ODI stats to support your stance.

Except…..BOTH Pooran and Shai Hope have better ODI stats than Hetmeyer.

So again I ask…..why do you think Hetmeyer is better than both?

Thanks

In reply to imusic

As I said before what intrigued me with the young man is how quickly he was able to judge the length of a ball.That is pure instinct and can not be taught.That is why he is able to get into position to play attacking shots and be able to get the ball over the boundary so often.He is not as powerfully built as Pollard who can muscle the ball over the boundary.He is also a fast learner but CWI expect him to learn at warp speed.He has made the necessary adjustments in limited over cricket but due to the paucity of first class matches he has played he has found success harder to come by.In Bangladesh he did well in the 2 test matches while everybody else failed miserably.I have pointed out the fact that he has never played a full season of first class cricket because after being rushed into the test side prematurely he has been either playing white ball cricket for the West Indies in 2018,2019 and 2020 when our domestic first class competition was going on and of course there was no cricket in 2021.
All this I have been saying repeatedly but nobody listens.

Why did Pooran not make himself available to play 2 first class matches earlier this year?

In reply to Dukes
What percentage of tags were correct?
I also tagged Kraigg and had a data base on this mb.
Sir Everton once explained to my Antiguan brother why Viv was selected ahead of Allen,the consistency of one scoring fifties against the accasional hundred
We are now seeing Viv scoring hundreds and Allen scoring very few fifties

In reply to imusic

I have never said that Hetty IS a top class batsman.I have said HE WILL BE A TOP CLASS BATSMAN

Using ODI cricket to say somebody is going to be a good test batsman is FOOLISHNESS.

I have already said why I think he will be a good test batsman.
Amongst all the gobbledygook that opening talked he made one valid point



Talking about limited overs stats and only using the average is less than smart
Obviously there has to be some combination of average and scoring rate
Pooran needs to score some centuries.In senior cricket I can only remember him scoring 2 centuries.One in the WC in England and the other in the CPL.

In reply to Dukes

When I make a statement I back it up with stats sir. Look at Chanderpaul, I knew he would be a world class batsman because he showed a little something I called CONSISTENCY. Chanders was unorthodox in his batting stance and even commentators would make fun of him. His crab-like stance worked for him, just like Gayle's lack of foot movement worked for him. Both were world class batsmen. Hetmyer has played 30 tests matches without a single n.o and 0, I repeat, 0 100s. He has batted 74 times in FC cricket and has 1 century at an average of 30.46. He isn't even a regional bully.
To say he is the best batsman in the West Indies based on the ability to get in the right position to play the ball is a slap in the face to Mayers, Bonner, Hope and Pooran. If he was getting into the right positions all the time why does he give away his hand so often. Intelligence is a part of the game as well and the best batsmen display it more often than not. Kindly don't insult the intelligence of your fellow posters with this 'jibba jabba' .

In reply to Dukes

But his stats do not support your thinking - - you're talking potential not current reality.

I have to wait on TIME to prove me right.I am patient.

Hetmyer is a WINNER.

One day allyuh guh see what I see.

In reply to Dukes

Based on your arguments, It seems like it’s more a case of Hetmeyer is GUYANESE

In reply to imusic

Is that why Shiv mek yuh shut yuh mout after yuh bad talk him??

In reply to Dukes

Hmmmmmm……obfuscation much?

In reply to imusic

When they go low, kick em in the nuts.