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Chris Dehring is at it Again

The time is up for the West Indies experiment.

It is an affront to tell a cricketer who has done all the hard work and struggled to make it to the top to represent their country of birth that that is not enough, that that is not the pinnacle, that they still can't compete internationally.

In reply to Walco

Tell Dehring and Ja to just leave

It is like they want a collective breakup as though they can’t endure whatever happens next on their own

In reply to Walco
The professional era of cricket, the late 1970s was responsible for turning the WI into battle hardened professionals, men who recognized what it took to dominate international sport. Case in pint, I remember reading Fire in Babylon and Andy Roberts said that they couldn't figure out how to dismiss Greg Cappell at all. During WSC, roberts noticed how susceptible chappell was to the short ball early in his innings, and used that template to make his remaining encounters with the WI extremely uncomfortable, i think with just a century to show for it. The professional era also set parameters on how long the WI could remain relevant.

The WI, being poor of resources(mostly) and economically, had to remain winning in order to continue attracting the sponsorships and TV deals that would make the product sustainable. We know we could not win forever but the terminal decline in quality teams has been a distinctly west indian phenomenon. It was up to the WICB to understand that their sole currency in international cricket was performance. They never put in place any system to ensure that quality players kept on being produced so the WI could remain relevant. When they finally attempted something of an academy, WI had already been in freefall with only ambrose, walsh and lara holding a rickety ship together. And that academy was widely panned for being substandard and totally unfit for purpose. While the WI were winning, they were more concerned with trying to make their favorites captain and generally being a less than useful body that somehow always complained about money despite Sky and TWI broadcasting series from the region while we were still the best team in the world, the best cricketing product.

So while we can complain about having depressed economies and limited resources, the WI situation wasn't in fact totally dependent on the whims and trends of the global economy. Its one of my biggest problems with the West Indian psyche. We focus so much on our obstacles that we don't see what we can do to help our situation. And this problem is not limited to cricket. Its a problem with the West Indian society

In reply to sudden
Dehring is simply recycling what he has been saying for a while. Maybe Bustamante was his mentor

In reply to sudden

I am a bit puzzled and maybe I am reading Dehring wrong. But in my humble opinion, wouldn't the same impediments he listed as killing West Indies cricket, not equally or more swiftly kill off any go it alone team? I think the moment West Indies cricket is disbanded, all cricket in the region dies with it.

In reply to Jumpstart

Generally speaking that is true.

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

he want them go it alone the same day wi babies beat them up?

In reply to Jumpstart
Dehring likely would argue that there is no such thing as West Indian society. He should run for President of the JCA ...

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

In reply to Walco

I don’t understand the tie in that there must be a WI society for there to be a WI cricket team.

That is an excuse and a poor one at that


But again Ja should withdraw and suck it to the others

In reply to Walco

This ultra nationalism sounds very Trumpish. In the past west indians from whichever island celebrated Hasley Crawford, Ottey all the way down to Bolt, Shelly and Elaine. They also Celebrated Sobers, Worrell, lloyd, Richards Lara down to Gayle. The scenes of all the British west indians at the Oval in 1976 didn't care who was from which island

In reply to sudden
Disbanding CWI would put an end to full ICC membership, which would result in the loss of whatever money flows to CWI from the ICC. There is a World Cup in the West Indies in 2024. I guest Chris will not be playing a role in the organizing committee for that one

In reply to Walco

In reply to Walco

In reply to sudden
Instead of trying to find a way to cure the disease, Derhring declares the disease incurable and advocate euthanasia. I guess he is the smartest guy in the room. So if he cannot figure out a solution the problem cannot be solved ...

In reply to FanAttick

Just leave

Don’t talk

No one is stopping Ja from withdrawing from the WI collective

In reply to FanAttick
I do not know the answer to your question, but I know that CWI owes money to most of the member territories. CWI is probably waiting for that 2024 WC to become solvent again.

In reply to Walco

They owe the BCA for sure

In reply to FanAttick

In reply to sudden
So you don't think Jamaica withdrawing would do the same thing to WI cricket that its withdrawal did to the Federation?

In reply to Walco

they will play division 3 like Guernsey, Germany, Slovakia etc

Dehring understands the problem but his solution is quite simplistic and just plain wrong.

I believe the poster openning has the germ of a solution which is simply - the national boards must must perform development work within their territories to produce competent cricketers. Governments can help with that for their own social cohesion and territorial development. Simply put, that is not a CWI role. Their role should be focused on maximizing the profit potential of the sport in the region for all stakeholders.

CWI must be reformed. There is no need to abolish the West Indies cricket team. One possible part of a comprehensive solution is to capitalize a properly organized entity with professional management and governance through an initial public offering (IPO). The national boards could have one or maybe two representatives on a properly constituted governing board with no veto power.

A lot of work, including the development of a strategic plan would have to be done. Some of that work, I believe, has been done through Patterson and Wehby and other reports.

In reply to Walco

It may but so what?

If they want to, why try to stop them?

Seems like collective destruction is what they want

Up to the rest to follow over the cliff

In reply to Walco

In reply to sudden

yeah....i mean look at the situation with Desmond Haynes. Dessie was the last of the Packer West Indians after Viv, ,Maco, Greenidge and Dujon retired in the year 1991.Dessie was an established WI legend and at the time, the holder of the most centuries in odi cricket. Richardson was the best batsman on the team after viv, i accept. But he barely had any captaincy experience, little or no reference for any adjudicator to say that, yes, this would be a good successor to viv. In addition, to having the respect of every West Indian, Dessie was the best tactician in international cricket at the time, rivaling even Viv.

But somehow, the WI decided(because i think Dessie was his own man and because he was a packer player, thus someone who could not be pressured or bullied) to pick Richardson. Richardson didn't have the personality to get the best out of his players. We won because ambrose and walsh were peaking, lara and adams were young and hungry, and dessie and richardson were desperate to keep the unbeaten run going. But i can guarantee you, if Haynes had been captain, carl hooper would not be averaging in the 30s. Dessie would have made sure that he understood that his performances weren't good enough. I remember watching a 1989 documentary about David Gower about three years ago. Its still on youtube btw. He sad when he was playing for Leicester as a young turk, Ray Illingworth was his captain and hhe said that that Illingworth was the captain responsible for purging him of the most damaging amateur instincts and tendencies. Reason i mention gower is because, in terms of effortless talent, he and hooper are contemporaries. Anyways, Hooper never struck me as aloof and arrogant(unlike de icon), and i say this as an outsider looking in, but I always thought he was someone who could be molded. I am positive Haynes could have mentored hooper to be a more consistent player. Not having Haynes as captain created a leadership vacuum where other boards tried to exploited. As early as 1994, you had some crazies in Trinidad crickert saying Lara should be captain. And that is because while Richardson could be called the captain of the cricket team, he wasn't the undisputed leader like how clive and viv were, as his appointment had come from left field and had surprised even his own countrymen.

In reply to FanAttick

Just go

if Dehring is proposing that JA should go along, it may very well be that he believes that the JA brand is stronger than the WI brand and so likely to be more profitable for those who will be marketing the team. it is really sad that the British have been able to divide up these islands that have a common history, economies and culture and that the legacy of this division is able to continue more than 50 years after the Brits substantially departed from the region after the Federation. The distance between two points in most states of America is longer than that between Guyana and Jamaica yet we dont get the accentuations of the differences as much as we do here. There are other archipelagic states in the world that have poorer economies than ours and greater distances between them, yet there is report of that frequent emphasis on what divides rather than what unites. West Indies cricket is one of our gifts to the world. if there are those among us that want to stop that, so be it. It will probably be their loss because if cricket is turned into a purely profitable enterprise, rather than a cultural expression, it becomes open to takeover by those whose pockets are deeper. Jamaica is well aware of this from the takeover by Trinidadians of many of its indigenous financial services and other companies in the recent past. It may well turn out that Jamaica cricket is Jamaican in name only but run for the profit of others. I would not want that for Jamaica or for any of us.

In reply to FanAttick
Do you seriously think Jamaican sponsors will want to be associated with a bunch of unfit, indisciplined and losing players simply because the color of the uniform changes? Why are these sponsors not supporting the Jamaica team now?

Isn't the Jamaica CPL franchise owned by a Guyanese?

This thread shows exactly why WI cricket is spiraling downwards.

The think tank is empty.

Cheers.

Dehring made his proposal. It would be good if folks can suggest a better one

In reply to Walco
The same way we fund our Athletics a ,football and netball programs...without any help from your several territories.
But you know this. Don't you and look what we a little rock has accomplished and still accomplishing.

Jamaica has the biggest name brand among you all when it comes to International Sports in the Biggest setting.
Think its accident ?

But you all know that too. You will certainly miss us if we leave the Colonial Construct.
And if we do watch you all including Republics follow suit as you did with the Independence movement in 1962.
You all became chickens following mother hen.

Check the remarks of Eric Williams...with his new math.

Anyway the time for go it alone is long past even for those who are now Republics and still under the Crown's coat tails.

In reply to hubert

Hmmmm!!! Chris Dehring has got here an excellent problem identification here.

I am not enamored by his solution...

My perspective is this: The satellites of CWI have got to undertake the responsibility of all cricket development (micro level) with consistent monitoring and evaluation done by the parent body. CWI needs to develop and implement severe disincentives to ensure compliance by these satellites.

It is also imperative that the governing structure of CWI needs to change to reflect an organisation that is geared towards achieving positive results with greater agility and efficiency.

A role has also got to be found for CARICOM in the grand scheme of things.

In reply to Courtesy

In reply to doosra

I know many of you are skeptical about the role of CARICOM in the development of cricket in the region...ignore the regional body at your peril.

A few years ago Caricom was receptive to sitting around the table to take our cricket forward. I need not say more...CWI viewed itself as a private entity and told Caricom where to shove its interests...the rest is history and a further detioration of the game as we knew it.

In reply to Courtesy

what you have said is more an indictment on Caricom than the other entity

why do you think they don't get a more serious role

given their slothful and bureaucratic approach to most things who do you think will want to work with them?

i must have asked you before and you probably answered but again if i may - what has Caricom done over the last how many ever years to suggest to you they can solve wi cricket problems?

In reply to Baje

In reply to doosra

Did you follow the developments when PMs Rowley and Ralph Gonsales were prepared to meet with CWI in an effort to move the game forward?

Caricom was not even given an opportunity to express its views...CWI said it is a private entity and told the governments to literally fuck off.

Has the private entity found solutions to our cricket problems? You cannot ignore one of your big stakeholders who are acutely aware of the importance of the game to the region.

No wonder "Jamaica wants to go it alone"...and from a position of intransigence by CWI I'll support them. Jamaica has no other choice in the face of not finding cricketing solutions.

In reply to Courtesy

Ja should just go

Go already

Enuff wid all de talk

In reply to sudden

What about Barbados...what path should it pursue in the scenario of our cricket being stuck in a time warp?

In reply to sudden

I know in an eventuality who will be following behind and over taking us too...
Guess who ????

In reply to Courtesy

Definitely not

Nonsense to even contemplate

In reply to hubert

Titland?

In reply to sudden

What path should Barbados pursue in the face of continued detioration of West Indies cricket?

In reply to Courtesy

establish a working group with public input which could come up with collective working ideas that all territories could buy into

In reply to sudden

In reply to Courtesy

Also revamp CWI. To be led by a CEO with stated targets/ objectives

Coach is the only selector like football

Scouts going throughout the territories to identify talent

A cricket academy

More professional first class cricket

In reply to sudden

[quote]establish a working group /quote]

i dont usually comment on these threads, but this gave me a laugh. a working group.

In reply to sudden
No. Bim. They have T20 International status already..That is even higher than
Associate with the ICC . They gone already only the dotted line to be signed now
What's taking the Republic so long to consummate the marriage..sorry wrong word with
your solid commitment to many such adventures

Door is open for me to mess with you.

In reply to hubert

Ok suh.

I was glad when they were beaten soundly

Nevertheless that was a commonwealth tournament where individual nations compete, wasnt it?

In reply to hubert

In reply to Tryangle

You said they don't5 ? The ICC said that ?
And when cricket becomes an Olympic event, which team in the West Indies will be representing
as an IOC member ?
Gimme more

Chris made a lot of great points in that article, but going it alone is not the answer.

Something though, is very wrong with WI cricket, I went to see one of the recently played 20/20 games at Bina against NZ

and that once vibrant stadium looked like a deserted home.

There is a social and general societal breakdown in the region and this is spilling over into every area of the Caribbean

experience.

So even though a limitation of resources is an obvious concern we have to remember that the leaders and players we elect and

select are a microcosm of same eat a food environment. I also noticed that the cricket is not being spread evenly around the

region and not being televised locally either, so then how can we continue to complain about the waning interest in the

game.

I would have preferred if he came up with some meaningful suggestions to restore our cricket than to break it up.

In reply to Tryangle
[b]One roadbump though... Barbados would need to have a domestic women's league with no fewer than 8 teams
[/b]
And even if this is true, which it is not..Bim could not have a league of 8 teams. ?
Associate is different from Full Membership qualificatioons.
It is a process
But give me more since you are well informed.

In reply to Wally-1

The reasons for crowd withdrawal are many

From constantly losing to seemingly don’t carish cricketers to a lack of cricket shown on Tv whilst we are bombarded daily with American sports and European football

By now all of WI cricket should be shown on TV daily especially our winning teams

In reply to Wally-1

I would have preferred if he came up with some meaningful suggestions to restore our cricket than to break it up,

Why don't you come up with the meaningful suggestions and debunk Chris's take ?

BTW suggestions never solve any problem. But carry on.

In reply to hubert

That is correct. We can only suggest. You can bring a cow to water but you can’t make it drink

It is high time we act and stop all the talk

I have no issue with Ja going it alone.

Just don’t come back

In reply to sudden

have we found our Elon Musk of WI cricket?

In reply to hubert

If you took the time to read what I wrote and you're a reasonable man, a debunk couldn't have been your takeaway.

In reply to doosra

I don’t quite know what to make of the chap

In reply to hubert

In reply to FanAttick

And that is what most people don’t get, a West Indies team is an abstract entity in the world where individualism is all that matters. However brand Jamaica has shown time and time again that it can achieve global recognition. Jamaica is the most recognizable country in the Caribbean, it’s a fact and governments may be persuaded to invest in the idea that a Jamaican cricket team can be competitive and bring more attention to Jamaica. As it stands now Jamaica gets 0 benefits from West Indies cricket, something must change.

In reply to TyTy35

With that said I can see Ja hosting Oz in 2 years as a test cricket nation

In reply to Wally-1

In reply to sudden

Nah I don’t see that happening, but I do see Jamaica hosting Ireland and Scotland and the Netherlands in 4 years and possibly beating them soundly too.

As long as you you have a scenario or system where Windies players will have the right to play for the highest bidder, it's game over!

Reconstruct, break up, or go it alone all you want - price will be a function of demand and supply!

Once a rising star is on the go, the IPL or another league will kill it before it grows!

The middle east is showing a lot of interest in cricket - just so y'all know!

Phil is set to go there and could easily mash up our dolly house as we know it!

Taking care of family will always be the mantra!

In reply to Jumpstart
Jamaica has not begun to realize its full potential in many venues of life..
REASON: lack of leadership from those in charge..Politicians foremost among them.
The country has become a basket case of violence and wickedness ,corruption and
general criminality is at the forefront.

There is too much unnecessary suffering even where there is progress and prosperity
and developments. The lower ranked Jamaicans are left out as progress is now geared
to the upper class more abundantly and toe foreign interests, both corporate and private
but the majority of the population are not benefitting as they should and after 60 years
of self rule it is a stark indictment of all in leadership in ll spheres.

Yet a good foundation was set in the mid50s when the PNP under NW Manley embarked on
a social /educational and agricultural /industrial revolution in preparation for Self Rule.
Sadly it was the other party which never spout or fully support the Self Rule path set in
1938, that had the grip on power to lead the lead the first 10 years of Independence.

They fumbled the ball and Jamaica has never recaptured the vision of a great future.
In fact it was only yesterday that I read that the current PM admitted that one of the Foundational planks
was NWM's ...only now after they did everything to destroy,change and shackle the solid foundations.
Only a few JLP leaders did good and significant things..Lightbourne,Allen in education were such; and
only a few others such as 'man a Yard embraced practical and good vision to the people's benefit.
But none was Prime Minister.
It is still fremarkable that with all the violence and wwide spread negative behaviour ,that Jaamaica enjoys such a healthy
tourism product although the benefits are not as substantial to the people's development or advance.
Crime does pay. But for whom ?

Perhaps I am too harsh but when so many of the nation's talent have and are seeking to leave...teachers,doctors and other professionals
then the country is on the brink of being a failure. There are nearly 3 million of us Abroad
almost the same as those on the Land .
Ironically it is us same 'same foreign citizens' who are propping up significant developments with remittances which are probably now No2 in
foreign exchange earnings.
Yes Jamaica can and should have been doing much better. But despite all the problems ,the indomitable spirit of fortitude and ambition has seen
significant contributions from those who embark in sports and the arts,music included on the international scene.

Pity we have no politician that can rise to any stature,internationally...


The value systems that older generations grew up with and strived, no longer exists.
Same can be said to a lesser extent of our Eastern Caribbean brothers too.
So when the head of the stream is murky, the rest of it will flow the same.

I could go on but I better stop at this point except to say that a country cannot be developed unless the people are first developed
and take of the development rather than reliance on foreign interests.That is the main rub missing in Jamaica.
Develop the people,individually and collectively and that will certainly reduce if not eradicate most of the negatives in the land.

Sports..track and field ,soccer has shown what can be achieved globally if the people,starting from the young are channelled to achieve
in positive ways.

Any people who do not know of or have snow who can reach the Olympics in bob sledding ice sports and achieve fame, can achieve anything.Just tell a Jamaican
he can't do something..and he will do it. Special people who lack top notch leadership but CAN achieve on their own because they have the will
to do so.
Cricket ? They can do it on the international scene too with time ;just tell us we can't

In reply to hubert

Well said and true

And then you want to go it alone

In reply to XDFIX

Well said.

Jamaica's track an field credentials are well known worldwide but what makes people think that players who now can't make west indies team be world beaters in a Jamaican uniform? Whuh some young boys just beat dum!

Will Bolt et al suddenly morph into Chris Gayle and Marlon?

But at the end of the day the mighty Jamaica can't pay more than IPL, etc

representing the West Indies doesn't produce in one's soul national pride. a major factor when up against it when facing stronger opposition. Holland beating South Africa, fine example. the dutch played quite a few internationals and gelled. Taking their regular beatings but the common goal was in vision because of national pride. Jamaica would eventually get there if the program is set but the JCA aint build for that kinda thing.

In reply to Wally-1

In reply to sudden

Big loud stewwwwwwwwwps

In reply to rudebway

Cricket is about stars

The ‘good cricket’ that everybody goes to see is punctuated by star performances


Let’s keep destroying the young stars because it suits us in the moment

In reply to hubert

In reply to imusic
What are you trying to say ?

Simple minds, big egos, poor leadership, lofty titles, poor practical education and small countries is a sure recipe for disaster.

The actual opposite is true, believe it or not.
If all sports come under a West Indian umbrella, West Indies cricket will improve.

In reply to Walco

I am not simply suggesting Jamaica to “go it alone” or the “break-up of WI cricket” as an objective. I believe the core problem WI cricket faces, a lack of resources, is so massive and fundamental that a total rethink is needed on this institution we all love called WI cricket in order to have a chance of saving it. The downward spiral over the past 30 years despite a few glimmers of hope from time to time is self-evident and it will continue unless addressed.

So we need to start with what the core problem is, a comparative lack of resources. What are our options?

We simply don’t have the financial market to compete with the better resourced countries with their lucrative TV markets. One key area is an absence of a coordinated national programme, funded by national resources and infrastructure from elementary through to high school and pros. That intrinsic problem exists because there is no “nation” called the West Indies. It prevents any Caribbean government from investing in WI cricket from top to bottom, or a WICB or CWI from coordinating a “national” programme. The Caribbean governments once pledged to financially support WI cricket with an annual stipend. I recall only Jamaica and Trinidad & Tobago paid the first tranche, and that was the end of that.

One possible solution might be if the individual countries competed at the international level in T20 where they can be competitive, and give the political mileage and impetus for Governments to invest in their national cricket infrastructure. Jamaica is used only as an example as I have written before on Barbados, Antigua & Barbuda, etc. able to raise national resources when they competed internationally individually. Those national resources would benefit WI cricket in ODIs and Test where we would continue to compete as WI. It might also be inevitable if cricket becomes an Olympic sport in the near future, where countries compete as individual countries. It irks me to see countries like the Netherlands and Oman on the world stage in the world T20s and not our own countries who have contributed so much to world cricket.

The most significant point, is that the paradigm of professional sports has so dramatically changed globally because of the vast financial and national resources available that WI simply have not had. But most people seem to believe that we can produce professional cricketers in 2022 the same way we produced them back in 1982, and still become world beaters. I don’t believe so, and whoever comes along as President or change the governance structure, management, etc. the core problem remains.

In reply to Yagga

so what is novel about any of that?

In reply to sudden

I didn't claim anything to be novel, but I don't recall individual countries of the West Indies playing in the world T20s before. Remind me when that happened. But the suggestion is being misconstrued as simplistically a suggestion to break up the WI... rather than a possible way to generate national resources badly needed. Imagine the re-energized domestic tournament.. e.g. a St. Lucia vs Barbados or Jamaica vs Guyana World T20 qualifiers...


But the most important point is that the resource gap is now enormous...at every level in the world of pro sports. No one seems to talk about it when looking at what ails WI cricket... but apply the resource gap over 30 years... and we are where we are.

In reply to Yagga

how are individual territories going to go about competing in the international T20 tournaments, (and by that, i take you mean the present tournament and not the international club tournament) and not seek some type of permission from the ICC?

such permission will rightly be viewed as a separation if not stipulated properly.

in any case, it is a slippery slope and can be viewed as a precursor to total and eventual separation

i believe you know this

In reply to sudden

Totally agree it is a slippery slope... but so is T20 becoming an Olympic sport. The ICC has England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Island all competing individually. Why not WI at t20 as an effort to grow the game in the Caribbean. What do you think is going to happen if or when cricket becomes an Olympic sport? Imagine when Barbados beats England in a qtr final in the Olympics...which can happen in t20!

The more dangerous slippery slope is the continued decline of WI cricket
Hardly anybody is playing or watching cricket in Jamaica anymore...50% of the WI... forget the messenger... how does that translate for the future for any professional sport.

In reply to sudden

Totally agree it is a slippery slope... but so is T20 becoming an Olympic sport. The ICC has England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Island all competing individually. Why not WI at t20 as an effort to grow the game in the Caribbean. What do you think is going to happen if or when cricket becomes an Olympic sport? Imagine when Barbados beats England in a qtr final in the Olympics...which can happen in t20!

The more dangerous slippery slope is the continued decline of WI cricket
Hardly anybody is playing or watching cricket in Jamaica anymore...50% of the WI... forget the messenger... how does that translate for the future of any professional sport in the region?

Look at Barbados immense contribution to world cricket. How is Oman and Netherlands as countries getting to parade on the world stage more than Barbados!

There is already a special dispensation which allows the WI to be represented at the ICC even though it is not abnation state which is required under the ICC constitution... this would simply be an amendment.

In reply to Halliwell

In reply to Yagga

Olympics is an individual country participative event as is the commonwealth games, so i have no issues with that.

ICC sanctioned tournaments are confined to cricketing territories operating under the aegis of the ICC.

however, as i have discussed above, if given permission by the ICC and it is stipulated that it is for this one off only, fine.

a more equitable way of solving the issue is recognising that there are small market teams that will never be able to generate revenue from their markets to make them as competitive monetarily as other teams and to institute some type of revenue sharing like the American NFL

In reply to Yagga

In talking with Jamaican people here, it's pretty much T&F and football, nothing else. Cricket is an afterthought.

That said, I still don't see WI being able to have its cake and eat it to with regard to competing as an ICC member. Stay together or break up, this whole "keep WI as a Test nation, but compete individually in T20Is" won't work.

CWI got somewhere above 120m the last cycle for distribution however it saw fit. I'm not sure exactly how much an individual nation under the Associate Member receives, but I think it's safe to suggest that the likes of Bermuda, Cayman, Bahamas, Belize and Suriname receive the equivalent of pocket change and an 'independent' Grenada or Dominica cricket board wouldn't receive anything significantly greater should they compete as Associates.

In reply to Yagga

In reply to imusic

Or is it more like the Stanford Model?

In reply to doosra

I think it is. Still… inter territory rivalry in T20 cricket was kyboshed by that administration.

Does the agreement that was signed between the then WICB and CPL require CPL’s permission for any other regional T20 competition to take place?

If so, why would they allow it?

In reply to doosra

The Stanford model was fun and gave a ton of players exposure, but its format, a straight knockout tournament, wasn't going to work as far as development. You'd need some league-play in there. Heck you could have had four regions (West, North-East, Central and South). But you'd still need an influx of cash to support it (at least in its infancy).

In reply to bdaTryangle

the stanford model is ironically what got TT so good at t20s, and that experience of constantly playing, and winning pressure moments translated to the WI team.

Raise yuh bat Yagga....another century thread coming up...

In reply to newdread

Walco and yagga are one and the same???

Well it's nearing Christmas time so I hope lots of chicken come home to roost so every home can have at least one.

Merry Christmas

In reply to sudden

Yes...that remodeling of the global cricket revenues is what has been proposed ad nauseum and rejected by the countries who simply want to keep all of their revenues. Both cricket revenues and national resources are needed... not one or the other. We have no control over one... getting some of other country's revenues. But one we have much more of a say...and precedent.

In reply to imusic

We have never had that. I think you are confusing what is being proposed. As the worldT20 grows so too will the participants. Right now there is a playoff to get to the worldt20s... I watch a little French yute play some rhatid shot for France who did quite well. Imagine if 3 spots were reserved for 3 teams from the Caribbean to go to those playoff for the 2 spots at the world t20s. The cpl is a domestic t20 tournament among franchises. Totally different.

In reply to imusic

Inter-territory rivalry is an important fuel that drove WI cricket. But the stakes matter. A Jamaica vs Trinidad football world cup qualifier is miles apart from a Caribbean Cup game. One gets mass crowd support, sponsorship and even TV revenues and all the top players get leave from their pro clubs to come back and play. The other barely gets a mention in the papers and the teams are usually local based players that nobody wants to see.

Sudden, you forget the last time we left, 1 from 10...

In reply to Jumpstart

In reply to bdaTryangle

CWI got US120m! That is news to me. But then it has to distribute whatever amount across 9 territories inefficiently. And whatever CWI gets, the other full members get the same plus their own commercial rights. ECb gets something like us$200m a year from domestic sales of TV. CWI gets zero. Extrapolate that over the last 20 years, that's one country having4 billion investing in its cricket.. versus zero. I know most people think in cricket resources don't impact the outcome... but I respectfully disagree. When the resource gap was a few million at the gate, our talent overcame it. But now in the hundreds of million a year... that gap is gargantuan.


India's rise and WI demise both coincided with the explosion in TV rights values starting in the late 90s. It might be a total coincidence... but I believe there is a strong correlation. The IPL is now the 3rd or 4th most valuable league in the world amongst all sports...only NFl, NBA and MLB surpass... those resources are not surmountable by our talent alone on a consistent basis.

In reply to Yagga

In reply to Yagga

In reply to Yagga

I know most people think in cricket resources don't impact the outcome... but I respectfully disagree.

I fully agree.
We (CWI) got to find ways to make money through marketing the brand more. There are ways, even teams that rank lower than us I see having shirt sponsor deals, and more.
What they are doing smartly is showing the games on YT. But by doing this they are able to make some money back through advertising because imagine a regional game in the WI can garner on average 4k viewers on YT alone. and that's live that's not cumulative views. The marketing team needs to explore more on how to make the brand more viable because persons are still interested in what happens in our local leagues.

In reply to imusic

No. Nothing similar. No international platform for any country in Standford. Not like going to the Olympics or a world t20. As I said... a local domestic tournament does not have the same prestige as a global world tournament and is not likely to create the impetus needed for a national programme. If all jamaica's track team qualified for was Carifta Games... does anybody think the same level of resources would be generated compared to the destination being the Olympic games and world Champioships?

Do you not get the point that Jamaica v Trinidad in Shell Caibbean Cup is totally different from Jaamsica playing Trinidad for a spot at the FIFA world cup?

In reply to natty_forever

And that worked out well ent?

Well have at it.

Your prerogative

In reply to positiveg

We must put our house in order and start winning again and build whatever momentum in whatever area we choose to go in

Until we start being professional and winning we will be like tits on a bull

In reply to Yagga

In reply to Yagga

To clarify, that number was across a 8-year period, 2015-2023.

Reference

In reply to Yagga

In reply to imusic

In reply to positiveg

It has nothing to do with marketing. No matter how many ways you add us up...our market is still only 5 million poor people. Of course we can always do better...but the scale needed is beyond that. And then whatever generated is wasted by the inefficiencies of the Caribbean

In reply to Jumpstart

The scale of professional sports is way beyond that now. How far and how many years or cohorts of cricketers do you think that 1 million dollars will last over the next 20 years?

In reply to positiveg

4k viewers... that is as miniscule a TV market as you can get! India gets 3 or 4 million in the US alone!

In reply to Yagga

well that is its because its for a budgeted year........the BCA nor the GOB or any other body in the region will have a 20 year olan for cricket.....but what i am saying is that the bill and responsibility of taking care of cricket is not footed by CWI alone.if it was, it would have been extinct long ago.

In reply to sudden

In reply to Jumpstart

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

In reply to JahJah

You have time

In reply to Walco

Free us from this hateful Sh!t

In reply to Yagga
Thanks for the clarification. I had actually lost track of this thread.

I personally believe if we can produce at least 4 stars in the current setup, Windies could easily become a cash cow!

We continue to have these pros and cons arguments because of the lack of stars and silverware!

If we could get Yagga and New Dread in the CWI management set up more than half the problem would be solved!

Right now, the horse is lame, and the cart is broken!

In reply to XDFIX