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And I'm not even mentioning how many times he was out early and not given. AB was much better

Raise you one Justin Langer

In reply to Jumpstart

The man played 166 test matches, scored 13k runs at an average over 55 and he’s overrated?

Who did he play against the majority of those 166 matches? Zimbabwe?

He also played 328 ODI’s scoring just under 12k runs at an average of 44

He played over 250 FC match’s scoring just under 20K runs at an average of 54

And he’s overrated?

Jeezas

Is that a chat gpt result

In reply to Jumpstart

Give Jack his jacket. Kallis is an all time great in any era on any continent….

He’s no Sobers but he deserves his flowers

In reply to imusic

Most likely Dinas thought he got Kallis' wicket on a few occasions but the humpire(s) wouldn't cooperate.

In reply to Jumpstart

I'll raise you one: Ricky Ponting. He frighten pace bowling in his latter years and his average dropped from 60 to below 52. Still an all time great, but out of Lara and Tendulkar's league.

In reply to Seechy

I think you are rewriting history re Ponting's drop in average and his 'frighten' pace bowling

say more please

In reply to Jumpstart

Put on a sweater bhai...I heard Tittieland real cold these days

In reply to Jumpstart

what?

45 100s in tests
17 100s in ODIs
62 100s, 149 50s

and that man is overrated?

West Indians continue to bash Kallis because of what?

In reply to doosra

Kallis has 45 test 100s?

that alone is an enormous feat

In reply to sudden

people don't understand this...

45 flappin 100s in tests...45 100s and 58 50s

yes Forty Five

In reply to doosra

because he was afraid of fast bowling.....almost every express paceman floored kallis at some point in time. Go on youtube and watch kallis vs brett lee in australia 2005, or kallis vs flintoff in england in 07, or kallis vs dilhara fernando in 2011. In that flintoff over he was plumb lbw and the umpire didn't give him. All of you west indian fans know personally how many times the WI, as poor as they were, had kallis out early and the umpire refused to send him on his way.

homie....the best attack of Kallis's era was glen mcgrath and shane warne.....he only has two hundreds against them, ten years apart

In reply to Jumpstart

man allyuh carry on with this foolishness

how many times Lara got floored? does that diminish him?

In reply to doosra

how many times......the only dudes who hit lara were mcgrath, nel and donald(only donald is express and he only hit lara on the hip).....hoss lara was hooking 153kph short balls from brett lee .Even the big tall english pacers in the 000s, he struggled against them(as did every other batsman), but he never got hit. kallis is not even in lara's galaxy, he's light years behind

In reply to Jumpstart

You left out "in my opinion"

In reply to Jumpstart

This

In reply to Kay

kay.....shoaib akhtar is not a bowler. I refer strictly to bowlers only

In reply to Jumpstart
One of our local bowlers hit Lara, can't remember who, maybe a guy from the Leeward, Montserrat.

In reply to camos

Dottie Baker bruk Lara hand....and put paid to his comeback

link

In reply to Narper
thanks bro!

Brian Lara

In reply to Narper

OK. my point stands that Kallis got hit too often and only scored two hundreds against the best attack of his time, containing McGrath and warne. And he only scored two hundreds against them, 10 years apart

In reply to Narper

wow.......you are using as an exampple a 40 year old who had retired more than a year.....absolute genius.

Bare foolishnes a man was overated because he never was given out when he should and he got hit to much times lol lol just sayyou dont like the man because he is a white south african

In reply to Jumpstart

Did Viv Richards face the best attack of his time? THE FAMOUS 4 PRONG(s)?

In reply to velo

not at all. AB was my favorite batsman of the late 2000s and he has been accused of more racism than kallis. Dale Steyn was my favorite bowler of the late 200s and the only genuine great(philander was great as well) and pollock was as good as mcgrth

In reply to Narper

they were playing for the same side......he did however score 3 hundreds in three series with attacks containing thomson and lillee, briefly the best(74-79) and the the next best attack

In reply to Jumpstart

Pelter....like Bumrah. Afridi et al

In reply to Narper

steyn......pelter

In reply to Jumpstart

I somewhat agreed with you on Jack Kallis and considered him a Ken Barrington type of player and will tend to rate him as a dull and boring batsman even with his 50 plus avg.

1.Jacques Kallis is a great Batsman

2.Jacques Kallis is overrated as a batsman.

Binary thinkers would say that it is Impossible for both the above statements to be true

Why is Jacques Kallis a GREAT BATSMAN?

a He has scored 45 test centuries
b. His test batting average is 55
c. He scored more than 13,000 test runs

How could Jacques Kallis be overrated as a batsman?

Some people have compared him to Lara,Sobers,Richards and Tendulkar.
However I say he is not as good as any of those guys

When talking about Lara,Sobers,Richards and Tendulkar one immediately remembers specific innings that they played.You remember an innings where they dominated top class bowlers, where nobody else played innings remotely close to what they played.Innings that all who saw them will never forget them.
Who could forget Lara's 277 at Sydney,or his 213 at Sabina Park or is 153 at the Mecca.Likewise who could forget Sobers 132 at Brisbane or his 168 at Sydney and his 2 centuries at Sabina against England in 1960 and 1968 or his 365 at age 21.Of course his 254 in 1972 for the ROW was described by Don Bradman as the best he has seen against Australia in Australia.How about Viv in his second test in India hitting a massive 192* with 6 sixes and then 101 opening against Lillee and Thompson.I was privileged to see his 145 at Lords in 1980 where Trevor Bailey said it was like looking at one of his teachers playing against the children who were 13 years old such was his dominance.of course his 153 in 130 balls against Lillee and company or his record setting 56 ball century in Antigua.Tendulkar played an astonishing innings of 119* to salvage a draw against England at age 17.Of course his 114 at the lightning fast WACA while still a teenager with a scoring rate of 70 is unforgettable.Many more memorable innings by the little Master.
What of Kallis? What memorable innings did he play? When did he dominate world class bowlers? Even Shiv Chanderpaul has a test century in 69 balls.Kallis has a scoring rate of 45.98 compared to Lara at 60 Ponting at 58 and Sangakarra at 54.Tendy,Viv and Sobers were not done due to incomplete records but they all had numerous centuries with scoring rates above 70.
AB played some spectacular innings in test matches as did many others but Kallis was a plodder of very little entertainment value.
Another feature of many great batsmen is they would score 100 and nobody else in the team reaches 50.Rest assured when 2 or 3 people scored a century for SA,Kallis was invariably one of the century makers.Heroic innings batting with the tail? Don't look for Kallis.

In reply to Dukes


in less than 10 words, he is a Ken Barrington clone.

In reply to Dukes

for the sake a complete argument, at least you could identity some of his data and then argue

your question suggest he hasn't and that is far far from the truth...

and it would be nice if you could just say what you mean by overrated...you have quite a few things in there...is it playing memorable innings that makes one not overrated and the others overrated?

In reply to doosra

Dukes is just trying to diminish Kallis’ achievements because as a confessed “data and statistics based” analyst, he knows that Kallis’ numbers blow his idol’s numbers to smithereens!

In reply to doosra

The statement by Jumpstart that Kallis is the most overrated batsman is clearly ridiculous.However Kallis is not in the same category as Lara,Richards,Sobers and Tendulkar is what I am saying and anybody who says he is can be deemed to be guilty of overrating him.Nothing more, Nothing less.

Those 4 batsmen have taken games by the scruff of the neck and changed them.Kallis has not.

You need to go the each and every one of Kallis'45 centuries and do the same for the others and you will see a distinct difference.Many times when Kallis scored a century and another Safe did as well he was outbatted except for Amla.
If you feel a century is a century and his scoring rate of 45 does not come close to Lara at 60 and Ponting at 58.When those guys hit centuries they are scoring at around 70 per 100 balls or better.Kallis has many centuries between 35 and 45 scoring rate.
DEAL WITH THOSE FACTS
I presented my case for what those 4 have done.It is up to YOU to show that Kallis has equalled or bettered those guys with DOMINANT CENTURIES

LARAScoring rate 74
LARAScoring rate 82
SOBERS132 out of 197 runs scored
SOBERSScoring rate 71
RICHARDSScoring rate 71
RICHARDS

Now we await your rebuttal.

In reply to imusic

OK Kelly Ann Conway!!!!!!!

In reply to Dukes

In reply to Dukes

Honestly……I’ve never paid much attention to Jacques Kallis the batsman or bowler and I have little interest I. Breaking down any of his 45 centuries.

However, even you would have to admit that his stats are staggering.

45 test centuries? I mean DAMN bruh!

I don’t know if Bradman coulda bat like Lara and Viv etc. But his batting stats are also staggering and is what is used to rate him as the G.O.A.T in test match batting. So why not same metric for Kallis?

And is not like all Kallis’ centuries came playing against Zimbabwe and Afghanistsn……or even West Indies.

Just give the man his jacket is all I’m saying.

In reply to imusic

Ask yourself the question why and you have your answer right there.

Who wants to watch Geoff Boycott bat?

Bradman made 300 runs in 1 day.

My father told me that and I confirmed it many years later because I did not believe him.

Sobers,Kanhai,Lara, Richards, they all had personality.A certain charisma.
Lawrence Rowe,Carl Hooper gave people enjoyment.
Wi Top 3 Sobers,Richards and Lara all played memorable innings in England and Australia.
We love fast bouncy pitches like Perth.Richards hit 146 off 150 balls and Lara hit 132 off 183 balls at Perth

In reply to imusic

Homie.......8 of Kallis' centuries have come against the WI, including 4 in one series(I maintain that he was out early in 3 of those innings and wasn't given), the most against any team. The other one is India whose pace bowling attack until very recently has been poor. India for ages did not know how to manage or produce genuinely quick bowlers. Even the NZ teams he scored 6 hundreds against had an attack of Jacob Oram, Darryl tuffey and Chris Martin, certainly not world class. Conversely, he has 5 hundreds vs Australia, 3 of which came AFTER warne, McGrath and Gillespie had exited the scene


He prospered as bowling attacks when teams got weaker, teams like the WI and Pakistan




Is only hypernationalistic, and cultureless Australians, looking for folk heros for what is a new country, try to force us to believe Bradman was the best. Bradman was certainly the best of his time, futuristic for the 30s even. But he played before the professional Era, before Clive's four prong and Pakistan's reverse swing. That's why he can't be the GOAT. He played the best the sport had to offer in his time, not the best the sport had to offer since its creation

In reply to Dukes

Doh forget at one point in time, Richards' strike rate was 90 in tests

Yes 45 hundreds. And nobody can remember a single one of them

In reply to cedaw

For some reason that line from Vibes Kartel popped into my head

Mih two phone a ring but mih nah answer none.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

In reply to Dukes


The musicman does not like Shiv or KB batting style, but he loves Kallis.

I was never the biggest fan of the guy, but man the day he retired we could immediately feel the loss.Team always felt like it was short a bat and bowler.

His last century in his last game for SA helped them take the series against India as well, and probably one of his best knocks of all time.
Game was tense at 110 odd for 3 and that century, whilst slow as heck just sapped all the life out of that Indian team after they passed 330 in the first dig.