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it shall certainly work against the weaker opposition like those under the top 5 ICC rankings but against the top dogs, it will backfire more than you'll succeed with it.

In reply to Raggs


Isn't bazball calypso cricket under a new name?

yes to both comments above. I wonder if the English commentators will refer to it as collapso cricket or some other derogatory term as they used when this happened to us. What would be fascinating is if Oz came out with its own version of Bazball and wrapped up the match today

In reply to XDFIX

as they say, the conquerors claim the theories and writes the history.

In reply to XDFIX

The name was forfeited/relinquished when we transformed to the Collapso variant.

In reply to sudden

Pommies soon start calling him Foreigner (sell-out). Just wait till dem lose this match.

It is interesting to note that those who succeed are those who are not afraid of failure.Most people who are afraid to fail lack self confidence and lead boring unfulfilling lives and resent those who dare to try.
Remember that when people are in the departure lounge about to die, their regrets are not the things they have done but the things they did not have the guts to attempt.

Weather permitting, I am backing Australia to win this test. I think the finish will be an exciting one. Perhaps an extra 20 or 30 runs by England might well have given them the advantage. Should this be the case, then Stokes'declaration will be criticized ad infinitum which could well put a pause on bazball.

In reply to Dukes

I concur fully!
I think all these sentiments derived from ABE!

In reply to Dukes

There is self confidence and there is downright assininity. It is difficult (I do not say impossible) to justify declaring on first innings of a 5 day match just because you say your aim is to entertain. This is a test match, not a beauty pageant. Your aim is to win. If there was something about the pitch or the weather conditions that make you feel that you have a good chance to get some of the other side's top order out quickly then that can justify a declaration. If you have been suckered by your own hype and Oz's defensive fields into thinking that Oz had surrendered, then you will be proven wrong (and stupid).

In reply to Raggs

I also think that, once the novelty and surprise element is gone, teams will be prepared for the Bazball approach. Success rate could decrease quickly

In the olden days on uncovered wickets, Captains would time declarations to take advantage of sticky dog wickets. This was common in county cricket. Last time I recall a bowler bowling out a side on a sticky wicket was Derek Underwood bowling out Oz at the oval in 1968. Cant recall if England did declare their second innings or if they speeded getting out in order to get oz in.

In reply to Dukes

This is so generalized it comes over as trying too hard to make a point that is not being made

Give a couple examples

In reply to DonD

Only you could rekindle my memory of the term ' sticky dog'. Be careful,some on here may be thinking
it is akin to 'hot dog' they of the fast food generation


But you are so right.
But notably in the 30s to 50s Test teams would scramble their batting in many innings because of the
uncovered pitches which became sticky. I have seen scorecards with even the Don, and Hutton batting way down the order,Headley too
as the non batsmen were ,mainly bowlers were sacrificed while the pitch dried out and most times the pitches didn't.

That is why I desist from comparing batsmen of different eras. Hobbs and Headley were rated
tops on such pitches as you know.

Totally covered pitches I think only came about in 60s.
Cricket is always evolving in one way or the other.
Good to see a post from you DonD. Hope things are ok

In reply to hubert

Being of a more recent vintage I can only recall 1971 when they decided to go back to uncovered pitches and the result was Lance Gibbs took 131 wickets for Warwickshire at 18 apiece with 9 five wicket hauls and 3 ten wicket matches.

In reply to sudden

Try these

In reply to Raggs
Backfire compared to what. If you were losing to top 3 teams before Baz ball..but now you are losing but less frequently...has bazball backfired?

In reply to Dukes

Ok

But you know that is pure talk right?

And quotations are not examples of those who are not afraid of failure succeeding based on that alone

Don’t you think the teams that Jordan played against had a player or players who thought if not said the same as Jordan?

If you listen to Scottie Pippen it was more about the other players who combined with Jordan to win

I believe in one of the many quotes Jordan agreed

But that said Jordan was a great basketball player. He tried his luck at playing baseball and it didn’t work out but be did try

I have lived long enough, experienced enough and have been in enuff tough situations to know that self belief or not being afraid to fail is a hell of thing but equally I know it is not all.

This reminds me of that born leader trope you trot out every so often and the pull oneself up by his one’s own bootstraps/ self made millionaire Shoite one hears often

There are a combination of factors that make a person successful and sometimes the stars must align right to make it happen. In some cases self-belief comes after or coincide with success

And there are a lot of people with a lot of self belief who are not afraid to fail but are still failing

In fact a lot of people who fail are not afraid of failure which is perhaps why they fail in the first place

In reply to Dukes

Can only imagine what havoc he would have caused had uncovered pitches were
the norm during his entire playing career ?

Batsman would protest and or strike especially those that live for 'averages'

In reply to sudden

Are you going to try again for no. 4???

In reply to sudden

For ah generally chupid fella you real talk some good sense dey

In reply to sudden

One thing you do well in these discussions is to appropriate extremes to others.I could never suggest that merely thinking I could do fantastic things would allow me to do those fantastic things.I am saying that a positive mindset is crucial for success.In the case of England one just has to look at how they were doing prior to Stokes and McCullum and how they have done since is like a caterpillar and a butterfly.

In reply to Dukes

Well you did leave the opening

I must tell you I hate generalized postulations to specific arguments

What you are saying now is more accurately put, altho not strictly true, but such as it is, I will not rebut at this stage

Except to say one must have the team or the coach and captain must believe they do

I have no dog in this fight. Should Oz win, it confirms their status as world champions and gives them early hold on the urn. England wins and it reinforces the philosophy they have adopted to test match cricket.

To see West Indians begrudge the English approach is quite odd given that is how the WI that they do fondly reminisce played in their heyday. That the current iteration of WI testites play like the English did a generation ago is what should be bemoaned and criticised!

In reply to cumberland

WELL SAID!!!!!

I had a chance of viewing the 5-day weather report way ahead of this test and it was quite obvious that day 3 and 5 would have been problematic.

These decisons very often are not taken in isolation.

In reply to Baje

meaning that BazBall will eventually take them into the position of World ICC Test Champions, I doubt this.. BazBall I feel played by them overseas will cos them more defeats than victories against the stronger teams in the ICC rankings.

In reply to cumberland

That’s ALL driven by fear, manifested in the form of loathing, of the T20 game and specific practitioners of that form of the game.

In reply to imusic

Apart from Root playing some unconventional shots, please list the other similarities to T20!
How come the T20 advantage didn’t help India in the WTC??

In reply to StumpCam

As always, iTito confusing Bazball with brainless vooping.

In reply to StumpCam

Or indeed 50 over cricket!!!!

In reply to Drapsey

Great test match. Well played Ozzie!! I hope Stoke won't be drawn and quartered by the British press. His declaration was worse than Sobers.

In reply to DonD

yes stokes with root going great guns should allowed him to pile on another 50 runs sometimes aggression needs to be curved and not totally whipped up into crazy motion

they will spin it by saying that it is good for the series and the game and test cricket generally and he had an eye out for the weather on the last day and the time needed to bowl out Oz etc etc etc. Stokes and English cricket will come out as heroes.

In reply to Raggs

you mean the colonizers duz too love to tief people tings

In reply to defeyeant

Indeed

In reply to DonD

It was 2 wickets or less than 10 overs shy of being the greatest declaration of all time.

You can armchair quarterback now. As it turned out due to weather related interruptions, the declaration allowed them to carry the match into the final evening of play.

They dared. That’s refreshing…..AND will bring more eyes to the game. Instead of the tried and tested and extremely boring “take the shine off the ball”, attrition cricket that is often the paradigm of test cricket.

I like that they dared to do that. And it almost worked. I look forward to the 2nd test.

In reply to imusic - Below is the post I posted on this thread yesterday morning. Hardly a case of arm chair quarterbacking.



DonD6/19/23, 11:49:28 AM
Weather permitting, I am backing Australia to win this test. I think the finish will be an exciting one. Perhaps an extra 20 or 30 runs by England might well have given them the advantage. Should this be the case, then Stokes'declaration will be criticized ad infinitum which could well put a pause on bazball.

In reply to DonD

So let me see if I understand this correctly.

Another 20 or 30 runs by England in the first innings, AND THEN DECLARE..could have given them the advantage?

OR

Bat on, scoring 20 or 30 runs until all out as conventional wisdom (and practice) would dictate and that would have given them the advantage?

It was an exciting match...that's all that matters when it comes to test cricket

In reply to SnoopDog


Do you know why the musicman thinks so highly of T20?

In reply to imusic
Fans on this mb seem unable not to try any thing that is different from what they are used to, once I heard of the new approach that Macullum and Stokes was bringing to the team, I wanted to know about the team buying into to it.
So far so good, I don't think Stokes made that declaration on his own, these decisions are always a management doing, which the captain buys into.
Macullum is aware that every wicket will not be the same, but being positive and smart, you will win more than you lose.
Australia won the test by not backing down, too much experience on that team.